2016 Presidential Horse Race

2016 Presidential Horse Race


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IrishBroker

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We just had a CA Dem Rep go on local news questioning on how this will all be paid for. The world we live in when Dems are now sounding like Conservatives.

Says the state that wastes more money on BS, than anyone else. LOL

Just fantastic.

Here's $200k right off the bat:

18.Despite trillion-dollar deficits, last year's 10,160 earmarks included $200,000 for a tattoo removal program in Mission Hills, California
 
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ACamp1900

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Posters were not belittling the undeniable reality that racism motivates sects of voters.

What is worth belittling is every SJW on social media flippantly dismissing the entire Trump victory as, "Look RACISM!!!! SEXISM!!!! Alive and well!!!!" without any resemblance of an effort to understand what actually happened on Election Night. Those sentiments are equally divisive and damaging.

I have stated I'm trying hard to understand where they are coming from with all this... obviously a divisive media and national leadership doesn't help but to add to that... I think it might be fair to say that for many, especially with our youth, Dem vs. Republican has evolved into emotionally driven vs. logically driven... neither are bad and both are needed, I'm not trying to disparage either... but I tend to find that in my classroom the true believers on either side tend to naturally fit that. I think a portion of what we are seeing here is that the emotionally driven among us (especially among the youth I'll add again) lost and they are reacting in a way emotionally driven people tend to react... and race is a highly emotional topic so they just instinctively flock to that. IDK, maybe I'm just searching...
 

IrishJayhawk

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Says the state that wastes more money on BS, than anyone else. LOL

Just fantastic.

Here's $200k right off the bat:

18.Despite trillion-dollar deficits, last year's 10,160 earmarks included $200,000 for a tattoo removal program in Mission Hills, California

It's worth noting that the deficit is not even close to a trillion.
 

ACamp1900

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That doesn't make the deficit $1 trillion.

79af1798f6704697b1a233e00eefc061112337ee5f7222c8b9ad7f12b1974b46.jpg
 

GATTACA!

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Holy shit I didn't know mother Teresa was running.

Talk about delusional. She was so hated she was literally the only candidate that Donald Trump could beat. How could you want your daughters looking up to that horrible human being? She's a shit role model and I'm glad young women will have the chance to have a decent person as the first female president whenever that should happen.
 
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Cackalacky

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I have stated I'm trying hard to understand where they are coming from with all this... obviously a divisive media and national leadership doesn't help but to add to that... I think it might be fair to say that for many, especially with our youth, Dem vs. Republican has evolved into emotionally driven vs. logically driven... neither are bad and both are needed, I'm not trying to disparage either... but I tend to find that in my classroom the true believers on either side tend to naturally fit that. I think a portion of what we are seeing here is that the emotionally driven among us (especially among the youth I'll add again) lost and they are reacting in a way emotionally driven people tend to react... and race is a highly emotional topic so they just instinctively flock to that. IDK, maybe I'm just searching...

I come from my perspective legitimately through personal experience as well being receptive to others experience, which I think many people lack the ability to do. Instead of listening, they actively reject someone else's perspective just because they cannot see it any other way than they already do. To go further, both my wife and I have been involved in the Project Illumination here in Charleston that was begun as a result of a long history of terrible relations with the police, the community and different races. It was also headed up by a former business professor at ND who taught in the Medoza school (Margaret Sidler). This was a round table of all types of community leaders, activists, police men, first responders, politicians etc. It was an excellent thing to have experienced and I heard many stories which I was able to actively listen to and put myself in their shoes. I was a listener and my wife was a moderator. She had the enviable task of keeping the conversations on track and respectful which is not always easy.

From our Police Chief:
September 6, 2016
The Honorable Mayor John J. Tecklenburg
Honorable Members of Charleston City Council
Dear Mayor and City Council Members:
“What can I do as the police chief in Charleston to avoid the conflict, destruction, and violence I have witnessed all across our Country as a result of the deteriorating relationships between citizens and their
police departments?” This is the question I frequently asked myself starting in 2014 as I watched and read story after story of citizen encounters with the police that led to death and chaos. Regardless of the circumstances or who was right or wrong, the outcome was the same – communities were being ripped apart. I care deeply about Charleston, its citizens and my officers and I wondered would we be next? My answer came on June 17, 2015.

On that day, a series of events began that would challenge the Charleston community and test the years of community engagement efforts of its police department. That night, a young, white male who had the goal of starting a race war entered the most historic black church in the region and sat down with its members during a bible study. At approximately 9:06 pm, he retrieved a Glock .45 caliber pistol from a fanny pack and systematically killed nine people.

As the scope and magnitude of what had occurred became known to the community, its potential impact and consequences were immediately apparent. What was not known, that cities around the country had struggled to control, centered on the community’s response.

What followed over the next 12 days was nothing short of remarkable. The grace, forgiveness, and unity that brought citizens together from all walks of life to demonstrate and protest their disdain for this vicious act of hate and call for healing and reconciliation captured the hearts and minds of people around the world. This horrific night changed the landscape of Charleston forever and it changed me. It demonstrated with such clarity the power and resilience of the human spirit. It will forever signify the ability for each of us to choose between good and evil.

It compelled me to take action rather than view it as another horrible situation that this time, incredibly ended without conflict, confrontation, or more violence. It would be unacceptable, because of the exceptional response, to fail to seize upon the momentum and strong relationships demonstrated between citizens and police that were manifested during this tragedy. Thus, an initiative that would strive to continue to strengthen the relationships between police and citizens grounded in trust and legitimacy was born - The Illumination Project. The Illumination Project honors the legacy of grace, forgiveness, and love demonstrated by the survivors and the victim’s families from the Mother Emanuel tragedy. The initiative has brought together people from all parts of the community– citizens with all the diversity they represent, academia, business leaders, faith-based organizations, police officers, elected officials, and media – in an enlightening process. Our shared experiences have created opportunities for everyone to work together in a safe, open, respectful environment. The goals have been to identify root causes of the critical dilemmas facing our community and find solutions that further strengthen citizen and police relationships. With each step we have built greater understanding and agreement. Confidence in the process continues to increase as we begin implementing plans developed by the community.

We are at a pivotal moment in our country as it relates to police trust and legitimacy. To do nothing is not an option; to engage in a journey that has been challenging, risky, and has the potential to inform generations to come has been our responsibility and honor.
So this is where I come from and participating in this only strengthened my perspective that we could all do more to help rather than just thinking that someone is dumbass becasue they may have feelings and experiences that differ from yours (general you again...). I learned a hell of lot just from listening, as opposed to just out of hand dismissal that nothing is wrong becasue its 2016 and not 1957. An honestly, based on Trumps comments during this election cycle, I dont see him addressing anything with this level of respectful temerity.
 
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IrishBroker

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Holy shit I didn't know mother Teresa was running.

Talk about delusional. She was so hated she was literally the only candidate that Donald Trump could beat. How could you want your daughters looking up to that horrible human being? She's a shit role model and I'm glad young women will have the chance to have a decent person as the first female president whenever that should happen.

This.

I am not a fan of Trump. But she is so vile that he beat her. People are delusional.
 

pumpdog20

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I think you and Wiz are not on the same page. You are both right.

You are right because 100% (or close to that) of racists voted for Trump.

He is right because he is saying that (a) doesn't mean Trump won the election due to that fact and (b) his electorate as a whole are not racist.

The proof is that Tim Scott received a higher percentage of votes and more total votes. If Trump's supporters were predominately racist there is literally no way this could happen. It doesn't make one iota of sense.

False. I'm willing to bet nowhere near 100% of racists blacks, hispanics, asians, etc voted for Trump.
 

ACamp1900

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I come from my perspective legitimately through personal experience as well being receptive to others experience, which I think many people lack the ability to do. Instead of listening, they actively reject someone else's perspective just because they cannot see it any otherway than they already do. TO go further, both my wide and I have been involved in the Project Illumination here in Charleston that was begun as a result of a long history of terrible relations with the police, the community and different races. It was also headed up by a former business professor at ND who taught in the Medoza school (Margaret Sidler). This was a round table of all types of community leaders, activists, police men, first responders, politicians etc. It was an excellent thing to have experienced and I heard many stories which I was able to actively listen to and put myself in their shoes. I was a listener and my wife was a moderator. She had the enviable task of keeping the conversations on track and respectful which is not always easy.

From our Police Chief:

So this is where I come from and participating in this only strengthened my perspective that we could all do more to help rather than just thinking that someone is dumbass becasue they may have feelings and experiences that differ from yours (general you again...). I learned a hell of lot just from listening, as opposed to just out of hand dismissal that nothing is wrong becasue its 2016 and not 1957.

Right on... I have had the experience of working with local politicians and leaders on both sides... and of course my experiences with different view points in class and just life in general. I do believe I can usually understand where someone is coming from fairly easily without agreeing fully with their conclusions and or reactions... I'm speaking strictly to the crowd of 'this is all just racism', to me THAT feels like the attempt to dismiss out of hand... or just not very well thought out... no? If you got from my post that I'm trying to dismiss view points then I didn't take the time to articulate it I suppose,... I'm trying to understand the reactions.
 
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Bluto

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None of these posts have anything to with BLM or sexism and are specifically about racism or the lack thereof. Particularly Wizards claiming that there is no KKK.

Here's something else to consider, again this is based on my personal experience. Some of the most racist people I know were what most of you would consider "regular people". I've known them since kindergarten, played football with them and in a couple cases dated their sisters (much to their dismay and some of the parents I'm sure). They weren't/aren't going to Klan rallies or flying Nazi flags. The refrain that was tossed about repeatedly as I was growing up was "you're different". When I asked why (my dad was at one point an illegal immigrant and until retiring a farm labor organizer for crying out loud) they would say "you just are". I think most of that was based not so much as who I was as a person but due largely to the fact that I was better at football (a huge deal where I grew up) and academics. The point here being I had to be demonstrably better in order to be considered a regular person.

Another phrase I heard consistently was "there's blacks and then there's niggers". Usually that meant anyone who agrees with me as opposed to anyone who disagrees with me and or is perceived as a threat. Case in point the two or three black dudes that moved to town when I was a freshman in high school were really good football players (they displaced some kids who had grown up starting the whole time) and popular with the ladies. They were immediately singled out as "niggers" and some of my teammates/classmates openly referred to their sisters who thought they were good looking as "nigger lovers". My buddy Lavelle was challenged to fights regularly by dudes as old as 22 begining at the age of 16. People only left him alone after he had KO'd damn near the whole town.

Fast forward to 2008 what I see and hear from this same group of people is "that nigger isn't my president", "he's a goddamn Muslim", "he wasn't even born here", "he doesn't deserve to be president". This year it's "build a wall", "ban muslims" and a bunch more horseshit. So yeah, from where I sit race/racism played a bigger role in this election than some people are willing to acknowledge. Maybe not as much as the "SJW's " some of you all hate but I think it was significant and it has nothing to do with the Klan and Nazis.
 
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Cackalacky

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Right on... I have had the experience of working with local politicians and leaders on both sides... and of course my experiences with different view points in class and just life in general. I do believe I can usually understand where someone is coming from fairly easily without agreeing fully with their conclusions and or reactions... I'm speaking strictly to the crowd of 'this is all just racism', to me THAT feels like the attempt to dismiss out of hand... no? If you got from my post that I'm trying to dismiss view points then I didn't take the time to articulate it I suppose,... I'm trying to understand the reactions not the view points.

No definitely not. I was more agreeing with your post but contrasting it with the numerous posts implying the struggle is over. Absolutely it works both ways. It makes it difficult to accept real instances versus crying wolf. That was one of the great things about that project is it really go the police to look at the community eye to eye and agree that the police are there for your protection and the community is there to support the police. It got the politicians to look at the community eye to eye and realize there is some real life fucked up shit going on and the politicians and the police eye to eye to propose real solutions. People talk about keyboard warriors and such but I would be interested to see how many of the naysayers or activists are actually truly involved.
 
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Cackalacky

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Here's something else to consider, again this is based on my personal experience. Some of the most racist people I know were what most of you would consider "regular people". I've known them since kindergarten, played football with them and in a couple cases dated their sisters (much to their dismay and some of the parents I'm sure). They weren't/aren't going to Klan rallies or flying Nazi flags. The refrain that was tossed about repeatedly as I was growing up was "you're different". When I asked why (my dad was at one point an illegal immigrant and until retiring a farm labor organizer for crying out loud) they would say "you just are". I think most of that was based not so much as who I was as a person but due largely to the fact that I was better at football (a huge deal where I grew up) and academics. The point here being I had to be demonstrably better in order to be considered a regular person.

Another phrase I heard consistently was "there's blacks and then there's niggers". Usually that meant anyone who agrees with me as opposed to anyone who disagrees with me and or is perceived as a threat. Case in point the two or three black dudes that moved to town when I was a freshman in high school were really good football players (they displaced some kids who had grown up starting the whole time) and popular with the ladies. They were immediately singled out as "niggers" and some of my teammates/classmates openly referred to their sisters who thought they were good looking as "nigger lovers". My buddy Lavelle was challenged to fights regularly by dudes as old as 22 begining at the age of 16. People only left him alone after he had KO'd damn near the whole town.

Fast forward to 2008 what I see and hear from this same group of people is "that nigger isn't my president", "he's a goddamn Muslim", "he wasn't even born here", "he doesn't deserve to be president". This year it's "build a wall", "ban muslims" and a bunch more horseshit. So yeah, from where I sit race/racism played a bigger role in this election than some people are willing to acknowledge. Maybe not as much as the "SJW's " you all hate but I think it was significant and it has nothing to do with the Klan and Nazis.
Absolutely 100% accurate. I have heard that from my earliest memories. Also had too numerous to count experiences where friends, family, acquaintances, co-workers, all expressed some subdued or understood racial context to what was going on. More recently since Obama, I hear it sooo much more openly.
 

gkIrish

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False. I'm willing to bet nowhere near 100% of racists blacks, hispanics, asians, etc voted for Trump.

Ok. "Nearly 100% of white racists"

Do I really need to be typing that out every time despite everyone knowing what someone means when they refer to a racist?
 

Henges24

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Ok. "Nearly 100% of white racists"

Do I really need to be typing that out every time despite everyone knowing what someone means when they refer to a racist?

Not sure. I seen racists in that video a few pages back. Just sayin'
 

IrishBroker

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Ok. "Nearly 100% of white racists"

Do I really need to be typing that out every time despite everyone knowing what someone means when they refer to a racist?

Yes. Because the term racist is not exclusive to whites and it's a shame that is still the prevailing attitude.
 

IrishBroker

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Here's something else to consider, again this is based on my personal experience. Some of the most racist people I know were what most of you would consider "regular people". I've known them since kindergarten, played football with them and in a couple cases dated their sisters (much to their dismay and some of the parents I'm sure). They weren't/aren't going to Klan rallies or flying Nazi flags. The refrain that was tossed about repeatedly as I was growing up was "you're different". When I asked why (my dad was at one point an illegal immigrant and until retiring a farm labor organizer for crying out loud) they would say "you just are". I think most of that was based not so much as who I was as a person but due largely to the fact that I was better at football (a huge deal where I grew up) and academics. The point here being I had to be demonstrably better in order to be considered a regular person.

Another phrase I heard consistently was "there's blacks and then there's niggers". Usually that meant anyone who agrees with me as opposed to anyone who disagrees with me and or is perceived as a threat. Case in point the two or three black dudes that moved to town when I was a freshman in high school were really good football players (they displaced some kids who had grown up starting the whole time) and popular with the ladies. They were immediately singled out as "niggers" and some of my teammates/classmates openly referred to their sisters who thought they were good looking as "nigger lovers". My buddy Lavelle was challenged to fights regularly by dudes as old as 22 begining at the age of 16. People only left him alone after he had KO'd damn near the whole town.

Fast forward to 2008 what I see and hear from this same group of people is "that nigger isn't my president", "he's a goddamn Muslim", "he wasn't even born here", "he doesn't deserve to be president". This year it's "build a wall", "ban muslims" and a bunch more horseshit. So yeah, from where I sit race/racism played a bigger role in this election than some people are willing to acknowledge. Maybe not as much as the "SJW's " some of you all hate but I think it was significant and it has nothing to do with the Klan and Nazis.

I've heard the same things. Shame, really. I have family in Jersey that talks like that. Obscene to say the least.

However, I can also say most of those people (the ones I still have contact with) no longer think that way nor do they use those terms. A couple are still flat out racists...but most have moved on.

I don't think for one min that is the majority of Trump supporters, nor do I think America is "racist"

There are racists. But they are not the majority. Nor are they all white.
 

gkIrish

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Not sure. I seen racists in that video a few pages back. Just sayin'

Everyone here is smart enough to know when someone is referring to white racists or racists in general based on the context of a post. When I said 100% of racists voted for Trump, everyone knows exactly what I'm saying.
 

Whiskeyjack

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Freddie deBoer just published an article on WaPo about why Bernie could have won.

And The Week's Michael Brendan Dougherty just published an article titled "How liberals totally blew it on Donald Trump":

The conservative intellectuals who did not support Donald Trump for president often had idiosyncratic reasons for doing so. Many of them objected to his populist and nationalist positions on trade and immigration. These conservatives were devoted to liberal ideals of the free movement of labor and capital. Others conservatives opposed him because he demonstrated a devotion to an "America First" foreign policy. He wasn't always consistent, but he said he wanted to be friendly with Russia, and he regretted America's recent wars in the Middle East. These conservatives believe American power has to actively shape the world, or the world will fall into more chaos and violence.

I wasn't one of these conservatives, exactly. I wanted a more populist, protectionist, nationalist, and anti-interventionist GOP. But I could not bring myself to support Trump to accomplish it. His understanding and devotion to nationalist politics was not to be trusted, and he brought with them a maximal load of racist baggage. His resistance to "political correctness" itself seemed to unleash the worst in his supporters. His personal moral corruption made him unfit for the office. And most of all, I believed that the ranks of hawkish amateurs that surround him and his own touchy ego make him uniquely dangerous as the man conducting our foreign policy.

I still believe all that. I was looking forward to the thrills of opposing a Hillary Clinton administration. I also believed that Trump's nomination was, in some ways, the fault of conservatives. They had given themselves over to clickbait and talk radio. They had disconnected from the economic concerns of their downscale and working-class voters.

But if now is the time for recriminations, I also have some for my liberal peers.

Liberals should have known Hillary Clinton was not a compelling candidate. She had never won a race in a competitive environment. Her personal corruption and the atmosphere of easy money surrounding the Clintons attracted a subpar team of empty opportunists. They did nothing to stop her, and even when it was revealed how much the DNC was tipping the scales for her, they yawned in boredom.

Liberals eventually began to prefer the explanation that Trump's rise was exclusively and entirely about the politics of racial backlash. Liberal publications, seemingly all of them, did long-form profiles of white nationalist groups, and scared their readership with tales of "fashy" haircuts, and campy British provocateurs. These journalists came to openly hate the profiles of poor whites in "Trump country."

Naturally, with a few exceptions, mainstream journalism entirely missed the story of the election. That story was Midwestern and Rust Belt Obama voters who kept voting for the candidate promising to redistribute economic resources and opportunity, and against the candidate favored by Wall Street. If early exit reports hold up, their bold prediction that Trump would do worse than Romney's abysmal showing with racial minorities will have been proven false, too. These pundits lied to themselves before they misled me and you. Instead the same voters who went for Trump sent Tim Scott back to the Senate.

And we should have seen that coming. Liberals focused on backlash to civil rights, and not at all on the Democratic Party's decades-long retreat from the politics of organized labor and working people, and its concurrent embrace of metropolitan social liberalism and neoliberal financial capitalism. Seven million American men have dropped out of the workforce, and the liberal candidate was offering a few wonky tweaks to health care and paid maternity leave. Trump was right to call his supporters the forgotten men. The leading exponents of liberalism perform their politics as a self-admiring monologue about their moral superiority. If liberals noticed working-class people in rural Indiana, it's only because they might have said something wrong on their "egg account" on Twitter or gave the wrong answer to a local news crew. Time to get the outrage mob to make them a national spectacle and possibly deprive them of their livelihood. Why is this form of liberalism surprised that people doubt the beneficence of its ministrations?

Clever-dick liberals who now say the evidence of Trump's racist appeal were obvious four years ago during the birther nonsense were singing a different tune during the Republican primary, saying things like, "a Trump presidency would probably wind up doing less harm to the country than a Marco Rubio or a [Ted] Cruz presidency. It might even, possibly, do some good." They constantly compared Trump favorably to the icky religious conservatives. Trump was the secular candidate. He supported the "good parts" of Planned Parenthood, and he wasn't a libertarian on economics. Ergo, he would be useful to use against Marco Rubio, the real threat. Somehow, even though, in theory, I supported a more protectionist, restrictionist, and peaceful GOP, these liberal commentators far outpaced me in their support for Trump. How curious.

Liberal writers now are coming forward to unburden themselves about their conviction that the executive branch should be restrained. "Congress would be wise to regain its proper place as the first branch of government, at least when it comes to serving as a check on a powerful executive," wrote one author. We did not hear about these convictions when Barack Obama gave the unregulated and unmonitored power of life and death to CIA Director John Brennan. Where were these liberals when Obama argued that Congressional resistance to him somehow granted the presidency extraordinary powers to craft immigration amnesty? Waiting until the very day that Donald Trump became president-elect to announce your devotion to the contained executive is like announcing your new weight-lifting and sprinting routine in the hours after a debilitating heart attack. Good luck with that.

The American right will "own" Donald Trump's presidency. And I suspect they will live to rue that fact — although I've been wrong about plenty in this election cycle. But, the American right is not the only political faction that needs to do some serious soul-searching after this election.
 

BleedBlueGold

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Freddie deBoer just published an article on WaPo about why Bernie could have won.

And The Week's Michael Brendan Dougherty just published an article titled "How liberals totally blew it on Donald Trump":

Is this the same Washington Post that spent the entire primary bashing Sanders so that Hillary looked like the better choice? Hmm....

Idk how many other people caught it, but while I was watching the election show on CNN at one point in time, when Tapper and others realized that Trump was going to win, they brought up Bernie and how he targeted the working class folks in this country, and realized that he could've won and they even so much as slipped and said they mishandled the press during the primary on that particular issue. I seriously almost chucked my remote at the TV.

The media (print and television) have been absolutely awful.
 

RDU Irish

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Basically nothing at all besides acknowledging that inner cities are not safe and have poor living conditions.

RACIST!!!!!!

Sit back and enjoy Rs and Ds pitch a fit of infrastructure goals that include inner cities. Ds won't believe someone is trying to help their constituencies and Rs will hate giving a hand up to their "enemies". Trump gonna have to take on both sides on a lot of these issues and it should be fun to watch.
 

Whiskeyjack

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Is this the same Washington Post that spent the entire primary bashing Sanders so that Hillary looked like the better choice? Hmm....

Freddie isn't a usual contributor to WaPo. He's one of the brightest Progressive minds writing today, and was a huge proponent of Bernie (and for the DNC courting working class whites/ organized labor again), so that's likely why they gave him space to write the article linked above. Few have earned to right to say "told ya so" more than he.

The media (print and television) have been absolutely awful.

Yup. They turned into an echo chamber over the last year, which likely played a significant role in pushing swing voters toward Trump. Complete journalistic malpractice.
 

BleedBlueGold

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Freddie isn't a usual contributor to WaPo. He's one of the brightest Progressive minds writing today, and was a huge proponent of Bernie (and for the DNC courting working class whites/ organized labor again), so that's likely why they gave him space to write the article linked above. Few have earned to right to say "told ya so" more than he.



Yup. They turned into an echo chamber over the last year, which likely played a significant role in pushing swing voters toward Trump. Complete journalistic malpractice.

Oh ok. Thanks. I'll give him a pass. :)
 
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