2016 Presidential Horse Race

[tussin]

This guy is such a god damn idiot.

Donald Trump calls Obama 'founder of ISIS' - CNNPolitics.com

Donald Trump on Wednesday repeatedly called President Barack Obama the "founder" of ISIS and labeled Hillary Clinton the "co-founder."

At a rally in Fort Lauderdale, Florida, Trump also said that ISIS "honors" Obama -- who the GOP nominee referred to as "Barack Hussein Obama."

Did Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton create ISIS?

After lamenting the "mistake" the US made by going to war in Iraq -- a conflict he repeatedly says that he opposed, despite evidence to the contrary -- Trump then criticized Obama's attempts to "clean up."

"Normally you want to clean up; he made a bigger mess out of it. He made such a mess. And then you had Hillary with Libya, so sad," Trump said.

"In fact, in many respects, you know they honor president Obama. ISIS is honoring President Obama. He is the founder of ISIS. He's the founder of ISIS, OK? He's the founder. He founded ISIS."

He then said that the "co-founder" of ISIS was Clinton.

On CNBC Thursday morning, Trump doubled down on his comments.

"He was the founder of ISIS, absolutely," Trump said. "The way he removed our troops -- you shouldn't have gone in. I was against the war in Iraq. Totally against it."

"That mistake was made. It was a horrible mistake -- one of the worst mistakes in the history of our country. We destabilized the Middle East and we've been paying the price for it for years. He was the founder -- absolutely, the founder. In fact, in sports they have awards, he gets the most valuable player award. Him and Hillary. I mean she gets it, too. I gave them co-founder if you really looked at the speech."

 

[kmoose]

This guy is such a god damn idiot.

Donald Trump calls Obama 'founder of ISIS' - CNNPolitics.com

Actually: He's pretty smart.

By speaking in hyperbole, like many of us often do, he is coming across to many Americans as "a real guy". He sounds just like Fred at the local bar. And Fred's a GREAT guy!! This is a guy we can relate to! He talks just like us. He's not one of those "hoity toity" politicians who thinks that their shit doesn't stink. When he gets in there, he's gonna tell it like it is! Instead of State Dinners, he's going to hold State Bowling Nights. Hell, I bet he's even a Patriots fan!

People are viewing him through the filter of a politician, who carefully measures each and every word, because nuance is a big thing in their profession. Trump is a puncher, not a boxer. And a lot of people are going to bet on the puncher.

 

[woolybug25]

Actually: He's pretty smart.

By speaking in hyperbole, like many of us often do, he is coming across to many Americans as "a real guy". He sounds just like Fred at the local bar. And Fred's a GREAT guy!! This is a guy we can relate to! He talks just like us. He's not one of those "hoity toity" politicians who thinks that their shit doesn't stink. When he gets in there, he's gonna tell it like it is! Instead of State Dinners, he's going to hold State Bowling Nights. Hell, I bet he's even a Patriots fan!

People are viewing him through the filter of a politician, who carefully measures each and every word, because nuance is a big thing in their profession. Trump is a puncher, not a boxer. And a lot of people are going to bet on the puncher.

I'm convinced Trump could say molesting a child ok as long as it was a girl and you would come on here talking about how we are misinterpreting his words and don't get that he's just a regular guy, a guy many people say is a GREAT guy.

There's some hyperbole for ya...

 

[tussin]

Actually: He's pretty smart.

Actually: No, he's not. He's a pathological liar who's business success is bigly overstated. Anyone who justifies their intelligence by referencing their undergraduate grades is not smart.

By speaking in hyperbole, like many of us often do, he is coming across to many Americans as "a real guy". He sounds just like Fred at the local bar. And Fred's a GREAT guy!! This is a guy we can relate to! He talks just like us. He's not one of those "hoity toity" politicians who thinks that their shit doesn't stink. When he gets in there, he's gonna tell it like it is! Instead of State Dinners, he's going to hold State Bowling Nights. Hell, I bet he's even a Patriots fan!

People are viewing him through the filter of a politician, who carefully measures each and every word, because nuance is a big thing in their profession. Trump is a puncher, not a boxer.

This is all fine and dandy, but he's not sitting at a local dive bar. He's running for President. The job requires someone that knows the issues cold and is also fluent in political discourse. Trump is neither of those things.

Also, I have to chuckle at your bolded point. Based on everything he has said this election cycle, you can't really believe that right?

And a lot of people are going to bet on the puncher.

Not really. It's shaping up to be a historic loss.

http://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2016-election-forecast/?ex_cid=rrpromo

 

[kmoose]

I'm convinced Trump could say molesting a child ok as long as it was a girl and you would come on here talking about how we are misinterpreting his words and don't get that he's just a regular guy, a guy many people say is a GREAT guy.

There's some hyperbole for ya...

You've shown a penchant for being able to convince yourself of anything that you WANT to believe.

So you disagree that he comes off to many Americans as a "normal guy", as opposed to a career politician?

*For the record: I don't think I've ever said that he IS just a regular guy. I said that he was creating the appearance of being just a regular guy in comparison with the career politicians that he is/was running against.

 

[woolybug25]

You've shown a penchant for being able to convince yourself of anything that you WANT to believe.

So you disagree that he comes off to many Americans as a "normal guy", as opposed to a career politician?

*For the record: I don't think I've ever said that he IS just a regular guy. I said that he was creating the appearance of being just a regular guy in comparison with the career politicians that he is/was running against.

And you have shown a penchant for making every excuse you can come up with to Defend Trump. Regardless of how stupid a comment is made.

I'll throw you a softball. You never commented on Trump putting Mark Foley (sexual deviant) behind him in his speech, the same speech in which he slams Hillary for who she has sitting behind her. Even saying, "those people know the campaign", then waving to the guy that got busted sexting young boys while he was chairman of the House Caucus on Missing and Exploited Children. Explain that one for us...

I have supported thoughts from both sides of the aisle. You have been the one blindly making excuses for the biggest scam artists the country has ever seen.

 

[IrishLax]

George W. is more the founder of ISIS than Obama, but Obama absolutely contributed to the current situation with his decisions. So this is a rare case of Trump not being far off the mark.

 

[Bogtrotter07]

You've shown a penchant for being able to convince yourself of anything that you WANT to believe.

So you disagree that he comes off to many Americans as a "normal guy", as opposed to a career politician?

*For the record: I don't think I've ever said that he IS just a regular guy. I said that he was creating the appearance of being just a regular guy in comparison with the career politicians that he is/was running against.

Moose, I wanted to take a second with you here . . .

We've got it. Trump took a play from the 'Dumb Shits for Dummies' manual written by Geo. W. Bush. It really is clear to many of us that you are correct on this.

What people are trying desperately to say to you is that : A) We understand and are not impressed, because; B) He is an incredibly low character human being, and C) he is not even as competent as George Bush at being a [common] dummy, (pulling off the every-day guy shtick?)

And as a further help in the conversation I have added an appropriate quote. To wit :

Psychological projection is a theory in psychology in which humans defend themselves against their own unconscious impulses or qualities (both positive and negative) by denying their existence in themselves while attributing them to others.[1] For example, a person who is habitually rude may constantly accuse other people of being rude. It incorporates blame shifting.

According to some research, the projection of one's unconscious qualities onto others is a common process in everyday life.

Bogs

 

[kmoose]

And you have shown a penchant for making every excuse you can come up to Defend Trump. Regardless of how stupid a comment is made.

I'll throw you a softball. You never commented on Trump putting James Foley (sexual deviant) behind him in his speech, the same speech in which he slams Hillary for who she has sitting behind her. Even saying, "those people know the campaign", then waving to the guy that got busted sexting young boys while he was chairman of the House Caucus on Missing and Exploited Children. Explain that one for us...

I have supported thoughts from both sides of the aisle. You have been the one blindly making excuses for the biggest scam artists the country has ever seen.

Your problem is with Trump, not me. I'm not blindly making excuses for anything or anyone. I never commented on Trump putting James Foley behind him because I think it's a non-issue. Just like I think it was a non-issue when he criticized Clinton for having Seddique Mateen sitting behind her. Those seats are handed out for political expediency. The presence of someone in those seats does NOT mean that the candidate endorses all of their beliefs, so I don't see why it should be an issue for either side.

 

[Bogtrotter07]

George W. is more the founder of ISIS than Obama, but Obama absolutely contributed to the current situation with his decisions. So this is a rare case of Trump not being far off the mark.

People have called it hyperbole. Hyperbole is exaggeration. Calling someone the founder of an organization, when what you are trying to point out is that their numb-nuts behavior fostered growth of the organization is entirely untrue. And because of that any such statement illogical and false. So it is a lie; it is slanderous and/or libelous, not hyperbole.

I can't stand Geo. W. Bush, but I have too much pride in myself to say anything like that about him. Even though this forum is fairly anonymous, I still cannot self-deprecate over that.

Besides. The beginning of the problem that made ISIS a possibility was England's Post WWI Colonialism, and their capricious and arbitrary division of the map of the Middle East, followed by US Oils endeavors to continually destabilize the region thereafter. Every Post-WW President has had culpability in the issue. Few other than Carter have tried to resolve it effectively, and putting American diplomacy in the hands of neophytes and cretins like GWBush and DTrump is just the American electorate, asking to be appointed to the board of directors for ISIS.

There!

 

[GoIrish41]

What was the joke?

Trump very clearly said that he thinks that Hillary Clinton is going to try to destroy the 2nd Amendment, and that, if she is elected President, she will appoint judges that share that same goal. So he said, "maybe some of the 2nd Amendment people can do something about it." I don't see a joke there at all........ I see a guy saying, "If you are pro-2nd Amendment, rally together with your like minded friends and get behind me."

When Trump said last year that McCain was only a war hero "because he was captured," adding that "I like people who are not captured, OK?," he didn't intend on being insulting toward McCain or her service -- let alone the six years he spent in a Vietnamese POW camp.

And when he said that Meghan Kelly has blood "coming out of her, whatever," he didn't mean she was menstruating and therefore grumpy, and that's why she was picking on him with hard questions during a primary debate.

When he mocked the reporter with arthrogryposis, a joint condition affecting his movement, he wasn't poking fun at a person with a disability.

He didn't mean that nightclub patrons should be allowed to carry guns in a place where alcohol is served when he said that if people were allowed to carry firearms the Miami nightclub shooting would never have happened.

He didn't mean to mock Hillary when he retweeted an anti-Semetic meme with the Star of David hovering over a pile of $100 bills -- that star was meant to represent a sheriff's badge.

And he didn't mean to be disrespectful to Muslims when he suggested the wife of Khizr Khan was not permitted by her husband to speak at the DNC when Khan called Trump out for his hateful rhetoric and his call to ban Muslims from coming into the country.

He didn't mean that he actually wanted Russia to commit espionage against Hillary, when he said last month that they should try to find the 30,000 e-mails that are missing from her server.

He didn't mean that women should face punishment for having abortions, when he told Chris Matthews that last March.

He didn't mean that a judge could not do his job due to his Mexican descent -- that Trump's proposal to build a wall on the Mexican border would keep the U.S.-born judge from fairly hearing evidence about the candidate's Trump University scam on American citizens.

He didn't mean that Obama was in bed with ISIS when he said "we're led by a man that either is, is not tough, not smart, or he's got something else in mind," or when he said just yesterday that Obama and Hillary are co-founders of the terrorist organization.

He didn't mean that Obama was a Muslim when he demanded for months that he produce his birth certificate.

So, why would anyone raise an eyebrow when he makes an off-handed suggestion on national television that "the Second Amendment people" could stop Hillary from getting judges in place that he contends would destroy the Second Amendment?

The media is falsely representing what Trump says, or he is just misunderstood? Give me a fucking break. The guy rarely speaks from prepared remarks, and stands on the stage or sits for interviews and says whatever comes to his mind. Let's not pretend that each of these "misunderstandings" occurs in a vacuum. One, two, or three might be dismissed as getting his words tied up over the course of a long and stressful election process, but above I've listed a dozen instances where he completely shit the bed and in each instance he had to spend days or weeks trying to walk back his idiotic statements. All candidates have gaffs -- these are not gaffs. When are we going to just come to grips with the fact that these are his thoughts -- he is the crazy uncle on Facebook! If you believe these are mere gaffs, you are also required to believe that he is the worst communicator on the planet who cannot seem to clearly say ANYTHING without being understood.

Everyone should vote their conscious for whomever they think is best for the country. But, please stop insulting the intelligence of everyone else by defending these hateful statements. We all know what he meant each time and to suggest otherwise makes his defender look like every bit the clown that Trump is. I'm almost to the point of being embarrassed for you because you don't seem to have the sense to realize how embarrassing your defense of Trump's statements are. It's not just liberals and the media who are disgusted by his ridiculous rhetoric -- his own party is jump off of him like fleas. Fucking Newt Gingrich, one of his finalists to be VP, is now calling him out. But not you ... you are right about this and everyone else in the world is wrong.

 

[kmoose]

When Trump said last year that McCain was only a war hero "because he was captured," adding that "I like people who are not captured, OK?," he didn't intend on being insulting toward McCain or her service -- let alone the six years he spent in a Viet Cong POW camp.

I never defended this.

And when he said that Meghan Kelly has blood "coming out of her, whatever," he didn't mean she was menstruating and therefore grumpy, and that's why she was picking on him with hard questions during a primary debate.

I don't think he meant it that way("that way" = she was on the rag). But it sure as hell sounded bad. So I'm not inclined to get too worked up about people representing it that way.

When he mocked the reporter with arthrogryposis, a joint condition affecting his movement, he wasn't poking fun at a person with a disability.

I never defended that.

He didn't mean that nightclub patrons should be allowed to carry guns in a place where alcohol is served when he said that if people were allowed to carry firearms the Miami nightclub shooting would never have happened.

I never defended that.

He didn't mean to mock Hillary when he retweeted an anti-Semetic meme with the Star of David hovering over a pile of $100 bills -- that star was meant to represent a sheriff's badge.

I never defended that.

And he didn't mean to be disrespectful to Muslims when he suggested the wife of Khizr Khan was not permitted by her husband to speak at the DNC when Khan called Trump out for his hateful rhetoric and his call to ban Muslims from coming into the country.

*shrugs* we disagree on this. But I did point out that I don't see it the same way as you.

He didn't mean that he actually wanted Russia to commit espionage against Hillary, when he said last month that they should try to find the 30,000 e-mails that are missing from her server.

I never defended this.

He didn't mean that women should face punishment for having abortions, when he told Chris Matthews that last March.

This is probably the most pathetic example of all. Trump called for punishments for women who have abortions, IF ABORTION WERE ILLEGAL!

OMG.......... THE PRESIDENT WANTS TO PUNISH PEOPLE FOR BREAKING THE LAW!!! THAT FASCIST SON OF A BITCH!

He didn't mean that a judge could not do his job due to his Mexican descent -- that Trump's proposal to build a wall on the Mexican border would keep the U.S.-born judge from fairly hearing evidence about the candidate's Trump University scam on American citizens.

Again, we differ.

He didn't mean that Obama was in bed with ISIS when he said "we're led by a man that either is, is not tough, not smart, or he's got something else in mind," or when he said just yesterday that Obama and Hillary are co-founders of the terrorist organization.

I never defended this.

He didn't mean that Trump was a Muslim when he demanded for months that he produce his birth certificate.

Never defended this.

So, why would anyone raise an eyebrow when he makes an off-handed suggestion on national television that "the Second Amendment people" could stop Hillary from getting judges in place that he contends would destroy the Second Amendment?

Raising an eyebrow is just fine. Accusing the man of planting the seeds for her murder (or even outright calling for it) is something entirely different.

The media is falsely representing what Trump says, or he is just misunderstood? Give me a fucking break. The guy rarely speaks from prepared remarks, and stands on the stage or sits for interviews and says whatever comes to his mind. Let's not pretend that each of these "misunderstandings" occurs in a vacuum. One, two, or three might be dismissed as getting his words tied up over the course of a long and stressful election process, but above I've listed a dozen instances where he completely shit the bed and in each instance he had to spend days or weeks trying to walk back his idiotic statements. All candidates have gaffs -- these are not gaffs. When are we going to just come to grips with the fact that these are his thoughts -- he is the crazy uncle on Facebook! If you believe these are mere gaffs, you are also required to believe that he is the worst communicator on the planet who cannot seem to clearly say ANYTHING without being understood.

Everyone should vote their conscious for whomever they think is best for the country. But, please stop insulting the intelligence of everyone else by defending these hateful statements. We all know what he meant each time and to suggest otherwise makes his defender look like every bit the clown that Trump is. I'm almost to the point of being embarrassed for you because you don't seem to have the sense to realize how embarrassing your defense of Trump's statements are. It's not just liberals and the media who are disgusted by his ridiculous rhetoric -- his own party is jump off of him like fleas. Fucking Newt Gingrich, one of his finalists to be VP, is now calling him out. But not you ... you are right about this and everyone else in the world is wrong.

See, this is a continuing issue with you, and probably why you find racism under every rock and around every corner:

You are accusing me of blindly defending Trump. You insinuate that I look like a clown for sharing my opinions. You listed 11 different topics in this post; all positions that you claim Donald Trump holds, as if they are some kind of evidence of my "blind defense" of the guy. But I have only ever discussed FOUR of those topics. So how about we do this? How about you STFU and stop acting like a clown and ascribing things to me that I have never said? You always do this............ you make whomever disagrees with you the very embodiment of every evil related to the topic at hand, whether that person holds those views or not. JUST STOP!! Your life will be much happier, believe me.

 

[Redbar]

Trolllalala

 

[GoIrish41]

I never defended this.



I don't think he meant it that way("that way" = she was on the rag). But it sure as hell sounded bad. So I'm not inclined to get too worked up about people representing it that way.



I never defended that.



I never defended that.




I never defended that.



*shrugs* we disagree on this. But I did point out that I don't see it the same way as you.



I never defended this.



This is probably the most pathetic example of all. Trump called for punishments for women who have abortions, IF ABORTION WERE ILLEGAL!





Again, we differ.




I never defended this.



Never defended this.



Raising an eyebrow is just fine. Accusing the man of planting the seeds for her murder (or even outright calling for it) is something entirely different.



See, this is a continuing issue with you, and probably why you find racism under every rock and around every corner:

You are accusing me of blindly defending Trump. You insinuate that I look like a clown for sharing my opinions. You listed 11 different topics in this post; all positions that you claim Donald Trump holds, as if they are some kind of evidence of my "blind defense" of the guy. But I have only ever discussed FOUR of those topics. So how about we do this? How about you STFU and stop acting like a clown and ascribing things to me that I have never said? You always do this............ you make whomever disagrees with you the very embodiment of every evil related to the topic at hand, whether that person holds those views or not. JUST STOP!! Your life will be much happier, believe me.

It's not that you personally defended any specific stupid thing he said, it's that you act as if each of his statements occurs in a vacuum -- that people are being unreasonable to conclude that he was suggesting 2nd Amendment People might use their guns to stop Hillary from putting her judges on the bench. His track record on ignorant statements is pretty well established, but you try to isolate individual statements as if his pattern of ignorance is not relevant to whichever bit of stupidity we are talking about at the time.

It is not the first time he suggested the use of violence -- "in the old days ... protestors would be carried out on stretchers," "I'll pay your legal fees if you shut them up," "I'd like to punch that guy in the face." None of that enters into the equation when you conclude that he was just making an innocent remark encouraging people to exercise their right to vote to stop Hillary when that is CLEARLY not what he said -- it doesn't even matter if he was joking or trying to be clever or whatever the hell he was trying to do, it is crystal clear what the meaning of the words were that came out of his mouth. That's why so many Republicans are jumping ship, and it's why he is tanking in the national polls -- allowing HRC to challenge the GOP strongholds like Georgia and Utah. He is absolutely unhinged, and you have and continue to be the guy who always defends him and suggests that he didn't say that.

I'm not going to go back and look for instances in which you defended each of his statements -- I'm not even certain which you did or didn't defend. What I am sure of is that you always seem to be the guy defending him when he says stupid shit -- something that should be evident by the number of people who have called you out for it on this occasion and multiple other occasions in this thread.

 

[pkt77242]

I never defended this.



I don't think he meant it that way("that way" = she was on the rag). But it sure as hell sounded bad. So I'm not inclined to get too worked up about people representing it that way.



I never defended that.



I never defended that.




I never defended that.



*shrugs* we disagree on this. But I did point out that I don't see it the same way as you.



I never defended this.



This is probably the most pathetic example of all. Trump called for punishments for women who have abortions, IF ABORTION WERE ILLEGAL!





Again, we differ.




I never defended this.



Never defended this.



Raising an eyebrow is just fine. Accusing the man of planting the seeds for her murder (or even outright calling for it) is something entirely different.



See, this is a continuing issue with you, and probably why you find racism under every rock and around every corner:

You are accusing me of blindly defending Trump. You insinuate that I look like a clown for sharing my opinions. You listed 11 different topics in this post; all positions that you claim Donald Trump holds, as if they are some kind of evidence of my "blind defense" of the guy. But I have only ever discussed FOUR of those topics. So how about we do this? How about you STFU and stop acting like a clown and ascribing things to me that I have never said? You always do this............ you make whomever disagrees with you the very embodiment of every evil related to the topic at hand, whether that person holds those views or not. JUST STOP!! Your life will be much happier, believe me.

You might want to look in the mirror. Pot meet the kettle.

Also telling GoIrish to STFU and telling him to stop acting like a clown just shows your lack of civility and class.

Maybe you need to stop posting.

 

[ACamp1900]

You might want to look in the mirror. Pot meet the kettle.

Maybe you need to stop posting.

This advice could and should be followed by quite a few in this thread honestly... seems like anything else in this thread though, who calls what and who out seems to be divided across party or political lines.

 

[zelezo vlk]

This advice could and should be followed by quite a few in this thread honestly... seems like anything else in this thread though, who calls what and who out seems to be divided across party or political lines.

There is little civility in this hyper partisan political world. If people refuse to see the other side as human beings worthy of respect instead of just an enemy, we will quickly lose control of our future. Both sides vilify the other and consequently nothing can be done.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Tapatalk

 

[kmoose]

You might want to look in the mirror. Pot meet the kettle.

Also telling GoIrish to STFU and telling him to stop acting like a clown just shows your lack of civility and class.

Maybe you need to stop posting.

And here comes his mom to stand up for him........

GoIrish said that I look like a clown for "defending" Trump's crazy comments. Where is your commentary on his lack of civility and class?

 

[GoIrish41]

And here comes his mom to stand up for him........

GoIrish said that I look like a clown for "defending" Trump's crazy comments. Where is your commentary on his lack of civility and class?

GoIrish said "We all know what he meant each time and to suggest otherwise makes his defender look like every bit the clown that Trump is."

Amazing that you don't apply the same slavish syntax arguments to my positions as you do to Trump's. I thought we were in the mode where we are focusing precisely on what the words say and nothing more. I mean, that is the standard you are arguing for each time you tell us what we twisted Trump's words into and that our interpretation does not match what he really said. Don't put words in my mouth, Moose, or you will expose the hypocrisy of your argument.

 

[EddytoNow]

When Trump said last year that McCain was only a war hero "because he was captured," adding that "I like people who are not captured, OK?," he didn't intend on being insulting toward McCain or her service -- let alone the six years he spent in a Vietnamese POW camp.

And when he said that Meghan Kelly has blood "coming out of her, whatever," he didn't mean she was menstruating and therefore grumpy, and that's why she was picking on him with hard questions during a primary debate.

When he mocked the reporter with arthrogryposis, a joint condition affecting his movement, he wasn't poking fun at a person with a disability.

He didn't mean that nightclub patrons should be allowed to carry guns in a place where alcohol is served when he said that if people were allowed to carry firearms the Miami nightclub shooting would never have happened.

He didn't mean to mock Hillary when he retweeted an anti-Semetic meme with the Star of David hovering over a pile of $100 bills -- that star was meant to represent a sheriff's badge.

And he didn't mean to be disrespectful to Muslims when he suggested the wife of Khizr Khan was not permitted by her husband to speak at the DNC when Khan called Trump out for his hateful rhetoric and his call to ban Muslims from coming into the country.

He didn't mean that he actually wanted Russia to commit espionage against Hillary, when he said last month that they should try to find the 30,000 e-mails that are missing from her server.

He didn't mean that women should face punishment for having abortions, when he told Chris Matthews that last March.

He didn't mean that a judge could not do his job due to his Mexican descent -- that Trump's proposal to build a wall on the Mexican border would keep the U.S.-born judge from fairly hearing evidence about the candidate's Trump University scam on American citizens.

He didn't mean that Obama was in bed with ISIS when he said "we're led by a man that either is, is not tough, not smart, or he's got something else in mind," or when he said just yesterday that Obama and Hillary are co-founders of the terrorist organization.

He didn't mean that Trump was a Muslim when he demanded for months that he produce his birth certificate.

So, why would anyone raise an eyebrow when he makes an off-handed suggestion on national television that "the Second Amendment people" could stop Hillary from getting judges in place that he contends would destroy the Second Amendment?

The media is falsely representing what Trump says, or he is just misunderstood? Give me a fucking break. The guy rarely speaks from prepared remarks, and stands on the stage or sits for interviews and says whatever comes to his mind. Let's not pretend that each of these "misunderstandings" occurs in a vacuum. One, two, or three might be dismissed as getting his words tied up over the course of a long and stressful election process, but above I've listed a dozen instances where he completely shit the bed and in each instance he had to spend days or weeks trying to walk back his idiotic statements. All candidates have gaffs -- these are not gaffs. When are we going to just come to grips with the fact that these are his thoughts -- he is the crazy uncle on Facebook! If you believe these are mere gaffs, you are also required to believe that he is the worst communicator on the planet who cannot seem to clearly say ANYTHING without being understood.

Everyone should vote their conscious for whomever they think is best for the country. But, please stop insulting the intelligence of everyone else by defending these hateful statements. We all know what he meant each time and to suggest otherwise makes his defender look like every bit the clown that Trump is. I'm almost to the point of being embarrassed for you because you don't seem to have the sense to realize how embarrassing your defense of Trump's statements are. It's not just liberals and the media who are disgusted by his ridiculous rhetoric -- his own party is jump off of him like fleas. Fucking Newt Gingrich, one of his finalists to be VP, is now calling him out. But not you ... you are right about this and everyone else in the world is wrong.

This sums up the past year. Trump is not being picked on by the media. He is defined by his own words, and fewer and fewer people are trying to defend him.

 

[gkIrish]

This sums up the past year. Trump is not being picked on by the media. He is defined by his own words, and fewer and fewer people are trying to defend him.

Any one of the examples GoIrish mentioned wouldn't be a big deal. Hell, even 3-4 of them could be written off as taking things out of context or misspeaking or whatever.

But when you have dozens of ignorant and/or arguably hateful remarks from one guy, he is no longer someone you can make excuses for.

 

[kmoose]

GoIrish said "We all know what he meant each time and to suggest otherwise makes his defender look like every bit the clown that Trump is."

Actually, what GoIrish said was:

to suggest otherwise makes his defender look like every bit the clown that Trump is. I'm almost to the point of being embarrassed for you because you don't seem to have the sense to realize how embarrassing your defense of Trump's statements are.

So are you saying that you were NOT talking specifically about me?

 

[kmoose]

Any one of the examples GoIrish mentioned wouldn't be a big deal. Hell, even 3-4 of them could be written off as taking things out of context or misspeaking or whatever.

But when you have dozens of ignorant and/or arguably hateful remarks from one guy, he is no longer someone you can make excuses for.

This is true. But, even so; you can't just make shit up because the guy has said brash things, even lies, in the past.

 

[pkt77242]

This advice could and should be followed by quite a few in this thread honestly... seems like anything else in this thread though, who calls what and who out seems to be divided across party or political lines.

Agreed. It has even applied to myself a few times, especially when it comes to kmoose. kmoose just seems particularly bad recently.

 

[kmoose]

Agreed. It has even applied to myself a few times, especially when it comes to kmoose. kmoose just seems particularly reasonable recently.

FIFY

 

[pkt77242]

FIFY

Of course you would think that as self-awareness doesn't seem to be your strong point.
:swordfigh:starwars:

 

[GoIrish41]

Actually, what GoIrish said was:



So are you saying that you were NOT talking specifically about me?

Hell yes I was talking about you ... see how easy it is to take ownership of the things we say and how easy it is to say things without really saying them? I even did it without directly calling you a clown, choosing the implicit route instead much like a presidential candidate we know does. And you didn't argue to the world in my defense ... weird! I also managed not to tell anyone to STFU, choosing instead to expose the flaws of you position by using the words of the candidate in question to demonstrate a pattern of idiocy that does not deserve defending or benefit of the doubt..

 

[kmoose]

Hell yes I was talking about you ...

Thank you for confirming your lack of class and civility for pkt. I think he was a little confused.

 

[woolybug25]

Thank you for confirming your lack of class and civility for pkt. I think he was a little confused.

Ha. That's rich coming from you. One moment you are making fun of people, calling them names, defending Trump for his lack of civility, etc... The next you're blasting people for civility.

It's pretty hard to take you seriously.

 

[kmoose]

Ha. That's rich coming from you. One moment you are making fun of people, calling them names, defending Trump for his lack of civility, etc... The next you're blasting people for civility.

It's pretty hard to take you seriously.

telling GoIrish to STFU and telling him to stop acting like a clown just shows your lack of civility and class.

GoIrish said that I look like a clown for "defending" Trump's crazy comments. Where is your commentary on his lack of civility and class?

GoIrish said "We all know what he meant each time and to suggest otherwise makes his defender look like every bit the clown that Trump is."

So are you saying that you were NOT talking specifically about me?

Hell yes I was talking about you ...

It's not like I just suddenly declared that GoIrish was being uncivil. His incivility was only a matter of pointing out pkt's hypocrisy in calling me uncivil and classless. So what, I called someone a name? You do it all the time as well. So does GoIrish, pkt, wizards, and most of us who are passionate in our viewpoints.