2016 Presidential Horse Race

2016 Presidential Horse Race


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Whiskeyjack

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More broad brushes. Rubio's suggested immigration policy is quite diferent from anything implemented under Bush.

Really? If you think the Gang of Eight proposal was substantively different than what Bush was selling, I don't know what to tell you. The GOP has been pushing this for decades, and the base has always hated it.

Has Rubio announced plans to invade two countries, one on trumped up charges? That's news to me.

He's announced support for an invasion of Syria to topple Assad, instituting a no-fly zone over the country, and shooting down Russian planes if they violate it. Say what you want about Bush, but he never cavalierly entertained sparking WWIII.

So the fact that he wants low taxes across the board makes him a Bush clone? Gee wiz, how insightful and accurate by the author...

I recognize that piece for what it is, a thinly-veiled attempt to belittle and discredit Rubio by saying he's the same as a guy that is rather universally reviled.

"A vote for Rubio is a vote for Bush!"
Get those t-shirts on the presses...

The point isn't to slander Rubio by associating him with Bush. The point is to illustrate how Rubio is an Establishment candidate, because his policies are not significantly at odds with the standard GOP agenda at all. Thus, his nomination would not be a positive thing for those who feel like Trump's candidacy is a serious sign of danger for the GOP (and the country generally), because it will be an endorsement of the status quo.

I vote for federalism, civil rights (sanctity of life and religious liberty especially) and foreign policy realism. Trump marginalized Paul by criticizing our foreign policy failures, which essentially bumped my favorite candidate out of the race entirely. I like Rubio's stance on abortion. But his hawkishness is a strong indicator that he'd push us further down the hill on foreign policy, federalism and privacy rights.

For what it's worth, Dougherty seems to feel the same way. Likes Rubio more than most candidates, but is dismayed that his ultimate nomination will allow the GOP to avoid some badly needed soul searching.
 
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NDVirginia19

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I really don't understand why it is so hard to give legal residency without citizenship as the easy way to move the debate forward. Why reward illegal behavior with full citizenship and access to benefits therein?

Because people like to deal in absolutes
 

tussin

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Whiskey, who is your preferred candidate? Most of your posts seem universally displeased with every option.
 

Black Irish

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I really don't understand why it is so hard to give legal residency without citizenship as the easy way to move the debate forward. Why reward illegal behavior with full citizenship and access to benefits therein?

I agree. Too often the debate over illegal immigration gets framed between two extremes. It's either "arrest and deport them" or "make them full citizens, no questions asked." Something in the middle that recognizes the illegality of their behavior but dealing with it in a not overly-punitive manner is the way to go.
 

NDVirginia19

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The point isn't to slander Rubio by associating him with Bush. The point is to illustrate how Rubio is an Establishment candidate, because his policies are not significantly at odds with the standard GOP agenda at all. Thus, his nomination would not be a positive thing for those who feel like Trump's candidacy is a serious sign of danger for the GOP (and the country generally), because it will be an endorsement of the status quo.

Would you consider Ted Cruz as an establishment candidate? Because other than Rubio's slightly more forgiving stance on immigration they are pretty ideologically similar
 

Whiskeyjack

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Okay, which is what Rubio has been saying. We need to make sure the border is secure first and then worry about what to do with the people already here. It isn't really that possible or likely to just kick out millions of people, so have them pay a fine (which is not amnesty) and then start working towards a path to legalization.

We've granted amnesty to illegal immigrants several times already, and every time it's justified with language about "securing the border" so we won't have to deal with this again. Excuse me if I'm unconvinced by assertions by Rubio and company that this time they're super serial about it.

Open borders benefit the donor class. It'll remain that way until either: (1) the political consensus wises up in time to stem off a populist revolution; or (2) we end up with a nastier form of government down the line.
 

GoIrish41

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It would be hard for the two men to kiss and make up, but as the saying goes "politics makes strange bedfellows." Cruz, to me, is the one who could probably best hold his own against Hillary in a head-to-head debate. She can't resist getting provoked and Cruz is pretty damn good at that.

Cruz's biggest problem would be with his own party, though. It is tough to overlooked how little people in the GOP dislike him. I don't know of a single liberal leaning person who can stand him, so it would be a steep climb for a candidate who is reviled on both sides of the aisle to win the White House. Hillary is not slouch in a debate either.
 
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RDU Irish

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Really? If you think the Gang of Eight proposal was substantively different than what Bush was selling, I don't know what to tell you. The GOP has been pushing this for decades, and the base has always hated it.

I vote for federalism, civil rights (abortion and religious liberty especially) and foreign policy realism. Trump marginalized Paul by criticizing our foreign policy failures, which essentially bumped my favorite candidate out of the race entirely. I like Rubio's stance on abortion. But his hawkishness is a strong indicator that he'd push us further down the hill on foreign policy, federalism and privacy rights.

For what it's worth, Dougherty seems to feel the same way. Likes Rubio more than most candidates, but is dismayed that his ultimate nomination will allow the GOP to avoid some badly needed soul searching.

Paul didn't exactly help himself with his demeanor and vigor. He has had plenty of time to up his game and really hasn't. Substance counts for so stinking little and he knows it, it is like his subconscious is winning the battle - deep down he really doesn't want to be President.

I am really disappointed in him. Really wanted him to be able to knock down the asshats on the stage methodically and bring it back to basics. A solid 10-15% should have been easily had and that would be enough to carry some influence, maybe even parlay into VP instead of falling off the edge of the stage into irrelevance.
 

Whiskeyjack

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Whiskey, who is your preferred candidate? Most of your posts seem universally displeased with every option.

Paul was the only one I could come close to endorsing.

Would you consider Ted Cruz as an establishment candidate? Because other than Rubio's slightly more forgiving stance on immigration they are pretty ideologically similar

No, Cruz is not an Establishment candidate; he's a conservative firebrand who constantly attacks the Establishment from the right for lack of conviction. I'd support him but for: (1) the mountain of evidence that he's universally hated by everyone who's ever worked with him; and (2) the most despicably cynical political stunt I've ever read about.

Someone tweeted recently that Cruz would bite the finger off a hobbit to become President. And that pretty neatly sums up why the guy puts me off so strongly.
 
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RDU Irish

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Cruz's biggest problem would be with his own party, though. It is tough to overlooked how little people in the GOP dislike him. I don't know of a single liberal leaning person who can stand him, so it would be a steep climb for a candidate who is reviled on both sides of the isle to win the White House. Hillary is not slouch in a debate either.

I think you underestimate how much people dislike Hillary. A Cruz vs Hillary election might break records for low turnout and the number of people actually voting FOR one side or the other might fill a coffee shop.
 

GoIrish41

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I think you underestimate how much people dislike Hillary. A Cruz vs Hillary election might break records for low turnout and the number of people actually voting FOR one side or the other might fill a coffee shop.

Republicans hate her. No question about that, but I think a lot more people than you think like Hillary. I'm not really one of them, but she would have my vote against any of the GOP frontrunners by a longshot. There are not people on the left who are voicing open disdain for her, like there is for Cruz on the right. She would carry her base in an election over Cruz or Trump, and there would be high turnout from Democrats just to keep those two out of the White House. For many of us lefties, she isn't our first choice, but if she is the choice, we'll vote for her. Not sure the same is true for Cruz or Trump.
 
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IrishLax

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Really? If you think the Gang of Eight proposal was substantively different than what Bush was selling, I don't know what to tell you. The GOP has been pushing this for decades, and the base has always hated it.

The "Gang of Eight" was bi-partisan and occurred years after Bush was gone. If you're going to take bi-partisan legislation and spin it as "GOP/Bush policy" then I don't know what to tell you. That entire line of logic is self-defeating, and is my main problem with that entire article.

The truth is lots of people share lots of the same policy positions. Bush feeling a certain doesn't make it a "Bush" policy... for the same reason that policies Trump supports that Clinton agrees with (and there are some, as illustrated by that policy survey-quiz-thing a bunch of us took previously) doesn't mean that "Clinton is a Trump clone."

The best example of this is probably this immigration policy we're talking about right now. Bernie Sanders supports amnesty, Rubio supports amnesty, and Clinton supports amnesty. How can ANYONE possibly frame that position as being a "Republican establishment" position or going for a "future that looks exactly like the Bush administration."?

He's announced support for an invasion of Syria to topple Assad, instituting a no-fly zone over the country, and shooting down Russian planes if they violate it. Say what you want about Bush, but he never cavalierly entertained sparking WWIII.

So now pragmatic, strong foreign policy is "sparking WWIII"? Turkey shot down a Russian jet the other day. Did that start WWIII? Turkey warned them, Russia did what they do to everyone and said "fuck you, we're Russia, what are you going to do about it?", and then Turkey shot their plane down.

Standing up to Russian territorial aggression is smart. Allowing key regions to destabilize and then letting Russia fill the power vacuum is not. That's how you actually get WWIII, by allowing Russia to continue to grow as a geopolitical threat. Russia has not been this dangerous to global peace in DECADES... and the reason they are is because of the soft responses of NATO, the UN, and our country to escalating acts of territorial aggression.

The point isn't to slander Rubio by associating him with Bush. The point is to illustrate how Rubio is an Establishment candidate, because his policies are not significantly at odds with the standard GOP agenda at all. Thus, his nomination would not be a positive thing for those who feel like Trump's candidacy is a serious sign of danger for the GOP (and the country generally), because it will be an endorsement of the status quo.

I vote for federalism, civil rights (abortion and religious liberty especially) and foreign policy realism. Trump marginalized Paul by criticizing our foreign policy failures, which essentially bumped my favorite candidate out of the race entirely. I like Rubio's stance on abortion. But his hawkishness is a strong indicator that he'd push us further down the hill on foreign policy, federalism and privacy rights.

For what it's worth, Dougherty seems to feel the same way. Likes Rubio more than most candidates, but is dismayed that his ultimate nomination will allow the GOP to avoid some badly needed soul searching.

See, this is -- IMO -- a crock of crap. That article is written with few specifics and broad brushes and inflammatory language of the "future being just like Bush" as an anti-Rubio hit piece. It's nothing more, nothing less. There is no fair discussion of policy or contrast in the entire piece.

I mean we're literally talking about immigration policy that is similar to the positions of Sanders and Clinton as indicative of him being a GOP-establishment lackey that will have a Bush-esque presidency if elected. Come onnnnn.....
 

RDU Irish

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Republicans hate her. No question about that, but I think a lot more people than you think like Hillary. I'm not really one of them, but she would have my vote against any of the GOP frontrunners by a longshot. There are not people on the left who are voicing open disdain for her, like there is for Cruz on the right. She would carry her base in an election over Cruz or Trump, and there would be high turnout from lefties just to keep those two out of the White House.

Which proves my point - they are voting AGAINST the opposition more than they are voting FOR Hillary. Why do I feel like we have had this discussion 52 times already?
 

IrishLax

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Cruz's biggest problem would be with his own party, though. It is tough to overlooked how little people in the GOP dislike him. I don't know of a single liberal leaning person who can stand him, so it would be a steep climb for a candidate who is reviled on both sides of the isle to win the White House. Hillary is not slouch in a debate either.

A person with his kind of dislikable personality is completely unelectable, IMO. When you get to the general, the amount of people who will simply dislike him as a person will be too high. Same applies to Trump, same sorta applies to Hillary.
 

GoIrish41

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Which proves my point - they are voting AGAINST the opposition more than they are voting FOR Hillary. Why do I feel like we have had this discussion 52 times already?

But they won't stay home. They'll go vote for her. Again, I don't see that happening for Trump or Cruz. They are at the level of support they are going to get, and they are going to find it tough sledding to get any more people on their train. If Bernie does not win the nomination, most people on the left are still going to the polls.
 

GoldenDomer

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Why no love for Kasich?

I've liked him, being that's he's not the narcissist like you find with Cruz and Trump. I know he's "establishment", but I feel the Republicans would benefit from a bipartisan candidate who could pull votes from the left and own Ohio.

He gets 2%, but a neurosurgeon with ZERO political knowledge gets close to 10%...
 

Whiskeyjack

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The "Gang of Eight" was bi-partisan and occurred years after Bush was gone. If you're going to take bi-partisan legislation and spin it as "GOP/Bush policy" then I don't know what to tell you. That entire line of logic is self-defeating, and is my main problem with that entire article.

The truth is lots of people share lots of the same policy positions. Bush feeling a certain doesn't make it a "Bush" policy... for the same reason that policies Trump supports that Clinton agrees with (and there are some, as illustrated by that policy survey-quiz-thing a bunch of us took previously) doesn't mean that "Clinton is a Trump clone."

The best example of this is probably this immigration policy we're talking about right now. Bernie Sanders supports amnesty, Rubio supports amnesty, and Clinton supports amnesty. How can ANYONE possibly frame that position as being a "Republican establishment" position or going for a "future that looks exactly like the Bush administration."?

How are those two positions mutually exclusive? Both major parties support amnesty/ open borders because it benefits their donor classes. Large portions of the base for both classes are harmed by that policy, but are overruled by their elites. Pointing out Rubio's support for that same policy isn't to prove that he's just like Bush, but that he's an Establishment candidate, who supports many of the same terrible policies both parties have inflicted on us for decades. So the claim that Rubio is a "true" conservative or some sort of outsider just isn't true. He's definitely electable, but people need to realize what they're voting for.

So now pragmatic, strong foreign policy is "sparking WWIII"?

Just to be clear, you think spending hundreds of billions invading Syria to depose Assad (thereby creating yet another power vacuum in which Islamist extremists can flourish) and risking a nuclear confrontation with Russia is "pragmatic, strong foreign policy"? Please give me a few sentences on how that's remotely possible given the obvious risk/ benefit calculations for us.

Turkey shot down a Russian jet the other day. Did that start WWIII? Turkey warned them, Russia did what they do to everyone and said "fuck you, we're Russia, what are you going to do about it?", and then Turkey shot their plane down.

It could have, which made it a colossally stupid f*cking thing to do. They weren't "standing up to Russia" so much as making an extremely risky gamble to advance their local realpolitik. Just the most recent example of why that alliance needs to go the way of the dinosaur.

Standing up to Russian territorial aggression is smart. Allowing key regions to destabilize and then letting Russia fill the power vacuum is not.

Pray tell, who destablized the Middle East? It sure as f*ck wasn't Russia, and yet you're defending a candidate who wants to topple yet another Middle Eastern dictator. Surely this time freedom and prosperity will follow, right?

That's how you actually get WWIII, by allowing Russia to continue to grow as a geopolitical threat. Russia has not been this dangerous to global peace in DECADES... and the reason they are is because of the soft responses of NATO, the UN, and our country to escalating acts of territorial aggression.

"Soft responses of NATO"? Like attempting to add their immediate western neighbors-- Georgia and Ukraine-- to an explicitly anti-Russia alliance? Russia's current military capabilities are pathetic compared to the Cold War levels, and there's no honest case to be made that they represent a real threat to US interests. If we could restrain the idiotic neocons in our government from poking the bear for a few years, there's a lot we could gain from improving relations with Russia-- chiefly a soft-power check on their recent foreign adventures.

See, this is -- IMO -- a crock of crap. That article is written with few specifics and broad brushes and inflammatory language of the "future being just like Bush" as an anti-Rubio hit piece. It's nothing more, nothing less. There is no fair discussion of policy or contrast in the entire piece.

I mean we're literally talking about immigration policy that is similar to the positions of Sanders and Clinton as indicative of him being a GOP-establishment lackey that will have a Bush-esque presidency if elected. Come onnnnn.....

You've said that several times already, and yet you haven't been able to distinguish Rubio's policy positions from Bush's. And as I mentioned above, the point isn't to tarnish him by association with a toxic political dynasty, but the illustrate how little he differs from the GOP Establishment on almost every substantive policy area.
 
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ND NYC

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worth keeping an eye on, for the general election, no matter who are the nominees:

(by my math)...

in (R) caucus: about 60% of the vote was for anti-establishment candidates

in (D) caucus: 50% of the vote was for antiestablishment candidates.

also, i wouldn't discount a pissed off Trump running as an Independent if it ends up really getting personal (and it could/will) with Cruz/Rubio over these next couple months.
if he gets more than 5% in the general, the Presidency goes to the Dems.
And with so many anti establishment sentiment IMO he would get more than 5% maybe double digits, in some key states.

irony is that, once again, would be a 3rd party candidate ensuring another Clinton presidency. (i.e. Ross Perot)
 
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kmoose

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Why no love for Kasich?

I've liked him, being that's he's not the narcissist like you find with Cruz and Trump. I know he's "establishment", but I feel the Republicans would benefit from a bipartisan candidate who could pull votes from the left and own Ohio.

He gets 2%, but a neurosurgeon with ZERO political knowledge gets close to 10%...

I think people should keep in mind that Ted Cruz played a very large part in the political wrangling that led to the government "shutdown" a few years ago.... and a pretty childish role at that.

Many Republicans now laud him for "not backing down". But those are the kinds of people who have fucked our government up. For them, it's not about the best policies or what's best for the American people. For them, it's simply, and solely, about winning. They put party ahead of country; and Ted Cruz is one of them.
 

wizards8507

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worth keeping an eye on, for the general election, no matter who are the nominees:

(by my math)...

in (R) caucus: about 60% of the vote was for anti-establishment candidates

in (D) caucus: 50% of the vote was for antiestablishment candidates.

also, i wouldn't discount a pissed off Trump running as an Independent if it ends up really getting personal (and it could/will) with Cruz/Rubio over these next couple months.
if he gets more than 5% in the general, the Presidency goes to the Dems.
And with so many anti establishment sentiment IMO he would get more than 5% maybe double digits, in some key states.

irony is that, once again, would be a 3rd party candidate ensuring another Clinton presidency. (i.e. Ross Perot)
I think the establishment versus anti-establishment angle has been blown out of proportion. I believe it's a huge reason for Trump's support and a lesser but still significant reason for Sanders' support, but I don't think Cruz and Carson voters are supporting them because they're anti-establishment. Yes, they are anti-establishment, but they're getting votes in the GOP primary because of their conservatism. In other words, I think it's a mistake to assume that Cruz supporters would jump to Trump just because he's anti-establishment. I think they're much more likely to go with one of the more traditionally conservative candidates.

I think people should keep in mind that Ted Cruz played a very large part in the political wrangling that led to the government "shutdown" a few years ago.... and a pretty childish role at that.

Many Republicans now laud him for "not backing down". But those are the kinds of people who have fucked our government up. For them, it's not about the best policies or what's best for the American people. For them, it's simply, and solely, about winning. They put party ahead of country; and Ted Cruz is one of them.
That's completely unfair. I'm not a huge Cruz supporter, but "party ahead of country" has nothing to do with the government shutdown, especially when the Republican Party power structure did everything they could to avoid a Cruz-instigated shutdown. The government shutting down is a good thing, especially when it's in opposition to destructive policies. Your argument is that it's better to pass destructive legislation than to shut down the government to prevent destructive legislation. The Republicans won landslides in 2010 and 2014, and all we hear is how they're supposed to "reach across the aisle" and "work with the other side" to pass Obama's agenda. If the voters wanted Democrat policies and legislation, they would have elected Democrats.
 
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pumpdog20

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Why no love for Kasich?

I've liked him, being that's he's not the narcissist like you find with Cruz and Trump. I know he's "establishment", but I feel the Republicans would benefit from a bipartisan candidate who could pull votes from the left and own Ohio.

He gets 2%, but a neurosurgeon with ZERO political knowledge gets close to 10%...

Because he didn't campaign in Iowa.
 

pkt77242

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I think the establishment versus anti-establishment angle has been blown out of proportion. I believe it's a huge reason for Trump's support and a lesser but still significant reason for Sanders' support, but I don't think Cruz and Carson voters are supporting them because they're anti-establishment. Yes, they are anti-establishment, but they're getting votes in the GOP primary because of their conservatism. In other words, I think it's a mistake to assume that Cruz supporters would jump to Trump just because he's anti-establishment. I think they're much more likely to go with one of the more traditionally conservative candidates.


That's completely unfair. I'm not a huge Cruz supporter, but "party ahead of country" has nothing to do with the government shutdown, especially when the Republican Party power structure did everything they could to avoid a Cruz-instigated shutdown. The government shutting down is a good thing, especially when it's in opposition to destructive policies. Your argument is that it's better to pass destructive legislation than to shut down the government to prevent destructive legislation. The Republicans won landslides in 2010 and 2014, and all we hear is how they're supposed to "reach across the aisle" and "work with the other side" to pass Obama's agenda. If the voters wanted Democrat policies and legislation, they would have elected Democrats.

And Obama beat Romney. What the people wanted was the two sides to work together. You seem to think that it is only pass R legislation or only pass D (or Obama) legislation. How about finding a fucking compromise. How about actual governing. That mentality is what I think is wrong with many conservatives. It is my way or the highway. That is why people like Cruz are destructive, they can't govern. Governing takes working with people who may have different views than you to find common ground and solutions.
 

wizards8507

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And Obama beat Romney. What the people wanted was the two sides to work together. You seem to think that it is only pass R legislation or only pass D (or Obama) legislation. How about finding a fucking compromise.
That's absolutely not my position. I'd be thrilled if they passed ZERO fucking legislation whatsoever. That's the whole point of the Constitution. It's supposed to be really really fucking difficult for them to pass new laws because each new law they pass is an erosion of our liberty.
 

kmoose

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That's absolutely not my position. I'd be thrilled if they passed ZERO fucking legislation whatsoever. That's the whole point of the Constitution. It's supposed to be really really fucking difficult for them to pass new laws because each new law they pass is an erosion of our liberty.

Yes, because the Founding Fathers enshrined the liberty to bribe public officials, use poison in food production, and provide alcohol to all of the kids at your 7 year old's sleepover, into the Constitution!! Damn these tyrannical LAWMAKERS!
 

EddytoNow

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I think the establishment versus anti-establishment angle has been blown out of proportion. I believe it's a huge reason for Trump's support and a lesser but still significant reason for Sanders' support, but I don't think Cruz and Carson voters are supporting them because they're anti-establishment. Yes, they are anti-establishment, but they're getting votes in the GOP primary because of their conservatism. In other words, I think it's a mistake to assume that Cruz supporters would jump to Trump just because he's anti-establishment. I think they're much more likely to go with one of the more traditionally conservative candidates.


That's completely unfair. I'm not a huge Cruz supporter, but "party ahead of country" has nothing to do with the government shutdown, especially when the Republican Party power structure did everything they could to avoid a Cruz-instigated shutdown. The government shutting down is a good thing, especially when it's in opposition to destructive policies. Your argument is that it's better to pass destructive legislation than to shut down the government to prevent destructive legislation. The Republicans won landslides in 2010 and 2014, and all we hear is how they're supposed to "reach across the aisle" and "work with the other side" to pass Obama's agenda. If the voters wanted Democrat policies and legislation, they would have elected Democrats.

You're right Cruz wasn't putting party before country. He doesn't give a rip about the Republican Party. He was putting himself before country. Ted Cruz is all about Ted Cruz.
 

Whiskeyjack

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And Obama beat Romney. What the people wanted was the two sides to work together.

Like when the Democrats crammed through the ACA along strictly partisan lines? Was that the bipartisan compromise you're looking for?

You seem to think that it is only pass R legislation or only pass D (or Obama) legislation. How about finding a fucking compromise. How about actual governing. That mentality is what I think is wrong with many conservatives. It is my way or the highway. That is why people like Cruz are destructive, they can't govern. Governing takes working with people who may have different views than you to find common ground and solutions.

Here's an idea: how about we let the states largely govern their own affairs, instead of trying to impose imperial mandates on a nation compromised of 300 million people and covering 3.8 million square miles from Washington DC. Ya know, the sort of federated republic described in our constitution. If there's not a clear bipartisan consensus on an issue, that's a pretty strong indication that the Feds shouldn't be passing laws about it.

I could turn your post around and say, "This mentality is what I think is wrong with many Progressives. They act like they live in an empire instead of a federal republic, and they insist on inflicting their half-baked policy ideas on the entire country instead of appealing to their local legislators. They've got no right to vote on how people in neighboring states govern themselves, etc."
 

ND NYC

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Wonder how Rubio is going to do under increased scrutiny he is surely about to face from his rivals and the press/media?

the field has been going after trump or cruz, and trump/cruz have been attacking each other.

will they go after Rubios' "drug dealer brother-in-law" association?

Could get nasty...
 

NDVirginia19

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Wonder how Rubio is going to do under increased scrutiny he is surely about to face from his rivals and the press/media?

the field has been going after trump or cruz, and trump/cruz have been attacking each other.

will they go after Rubios' "drug dealer brother-in-law" association?

Could get nasty...

The one thing that you can say about Rubio is that he's always prepared. Always ready to reply to any attack that anybody is going to throw at him, as you saw that one debate, he was licking his chops when Jeb was going into him. "somebody told you it was a good idea to attack me"

Articles about the drug dealer brother connection have been floating about for awhile, and any attack in debate about that just lend Rubio to jump flawlessly into the "America is a country for second chances, gave my brother in law a second chance and now he... xyz" Something to that effect
 

connor_in

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Hillary Clinton Campaign, Unnerved by Iowa, Braces for New Hampshire - NY Times
DES MOINES — Late Monday night, supporters of Hillary Clinton gathered for what they expected would be a victory rally.

Over the weekend, her campaign had exuded confidence, with some advisers predicting she would win the Iowa caucuses by several percentage points, and by Monday evening, they were urging news outlets to call the race in her favor. Mrs. Clinton prepared a victory speech in which she virtually ignored her rival, Senator Bernie Sanders of Vermont, and attacked the Republican candidates.

Then the caucus results started rolling in. And everything changed
 
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ND NYC

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The one thing that you can say about Rubio is that he's always prepared. Always ready to reply to any attack that anybody is going to throw at him, as you saw that one debate, he was licking his chops when Jeb was going into him. "somebody told you it was a good idea to attack me"

Articles about the drug dealer brother connection have been floating about for awhile, and any attack in debate about that just lend Rubio to jump flawlessly into the "America is a country for second chances, gave my brother in law a second chance and now he... xyz" Something to that effect

not sure if a trump or a cruz would let him off that easy in a debate.

oh geez, i literally just saw Christie say something to the effect: "it's time for the boy to come out of his bubble" referring to Rubio...and so it begins.
 
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