2016 Presidential Horse Race

[CrownRoyal]

I haven't chimed in on Trump's victory yet, so here goes:

- Hopefully the Clintons are finished forever. Lord knows they won't be getting $250k/speech now. The news that Chelsea Clinton may run for Congress makes me sick. I have maintained on IE for months now that they have done more damage to the liberal movement than any Republican. They are the ones who brought the Democrats in line with Reagan Republicans on corporate/trade issues. Hopefully Sanders and Co have a quick coup of the DNC and the party of the people is back.

- I think the "left behind" Midwesterners are going to learn the hard way that the Republican Party's economic establishment doesn't give a shit about them. The dying county seats of 15-25k are still going to be dying when Trump leaves office. He cannot fix automation from eliminating factory jobs, and he cannot fix the fact that 21st century economies only exist in large metropolitan areas.

- In that sense, I think the Republicans winning the Senate is the worst thing that could have happened. Now the Republican establishment is as strong as ever. The moneyed interests have a stranglehold on Congress (both houses) and Trump's economic promises are simply polar opposite to what they want. There could be dramatic showdowns on those fronts. First up is probably his desired infrastructure plan, which would be called a stimulus plan and derided just a week ago.

- Don't ever let someone tell you that the Republican Party is the party of personal responsibility. When black America tries to point out how the system fucked them, the Republicans quickly respond with "Listen, Jadeveon, let me tell you a story about bootstraps. My father lifted himself up by them. This is America, with hard work you can get out of the ghetto" and Rick Santorum pops out of a bush showing how poverty is nonexistent if you have a HS degree, a job, and no kids before marriage......but when rural whites say the system fucked them it's suddenly "Listen, Cleetus, you're a damn patriot you know that? Now grab your musket, we're drainin' the swamp!" and then move to upend seventy years of an American global order because people were unable to pass enough math classes to move to a thriving city.

- 2018 could be even worse for Democrats, defending 24 Senate seats versus the Republicans' 8. I think it'll be pretty damn tough for them to get the historical midterm swing.

- The amount of influence the Evangelicals have on the Supreme Court for the next generation is terrifying. It'll be the last "fuck you" from America's socially conservative baby boomers, and they won't even be alive to see it all. I'll be 60 the next time the Supreme Court has its head out of its ass.

Just more dribble and made up nonsense.

 

[Buster Bluth]

Oh of course. That's why he lost in a landslide like you predicted.

As future Secretary of State Newt Gingrich put it: fuck reality.

I said pre-Comey that he would lose in a landslide. I was scared shitless the week leading up to election day.

 

[Buster Bluth]

Just more dribble and made up nonsense.

Succinct rebuttal.

 

[Wild Bill]

As future Secretary of State Newt Gingrich put it: fuck reality.

I said pre-Comey that he would lose in a landslide. I was scared shitless the week leading up to election day.

Comey's letter is Clinton excuse making. Trump outworked her and out willed her. Six states a day while Hillary sat on her big ass and watched the Obamas work to get her elected. That was probably strategic. Her mere presence was toxic to the campaign. Trump took the Clinton filth head on and beat her. Comey confirmed the suspicions of a dozen undecided voters.

It's abundantly clear the reality for uneducated tax paying rubes is far different than the reality for educated millennials living off their parents.

 

[Buster Bluth]

Comey's letter is Clinton excuse making. Trump outworked her and out willed her. Six states a day while Hillary sat on her big ass and watched the Obamas work to get her elected. That was probably strategic. Her mere presence was toxic to the campaign. Trump took the Clinton filth head on and beat her. Comey confirmed the suspicions of a dozen undecided voters.

It's abundantly clear the reality for uneducated tax paying rubes is far different than the reality for educated millennials living off their parents.

That's great and all but I gave you my take on the election chances while it was happening. There was a very clear Trump bump after the Comey letter, go look at it yourself.

And you shouldn't act like he creamed her. At the end of it she will have received millions (that's plural) more votes than him.

 

[GATTACA!]

That's great and all but I gave you my take on the election chances while it was happening. There was a very clear Trump bump after the Comey letter, go look at it yourself.

And you shouldn't act like he creamed her. At the end of it she will have received millions (that's plural) more votes than him.

"Scoreboard"

 

[IrishSteelhead]

2016 Presidential Horse Race

Was in downtown Indy for a wedding last night, and there was a protest over at the statehouse.

Other than some crazy old man waving an upside down flag screaming obscenities at every person that walked by he perceived to be "privileged," the rest were angry, but civil. I hope that's how most of these demonstrations are going, but not holding my breath.

 

[kmoose]

Many of them are. She wasn't wrong in the sentiment. I actually live in a rural town in Ohio as saw it daily leading up to the election.

I actually spent the first 21 years of my life in a small town in Northeast Ohio. You know as well as I do, that those people who sit at the diner complaining over coffee, and who sometimes drop the N word, are the same people who would pull a person out of a burning car without bothering to even register what race they are. Those are the same people who give heavily to their church, who spends its money helping Middle Eastern refugees to put down roots in their own community, just like happened with my church and the Vietnamese refugees.

Those people didn't vote for Trump because "Hey, He's a racist, just like us!". They voted for him because they KNOW that Clinton was going to sell them all down the river the moment she got into office, just to enrich herself. They are tired of politicians getting wealthy by selling their influence, while doing nothing for their constituents. Trump MIGHT end up doing just that. But Clinton WAS going to do that. THAT is the choice that got Donald J Trump elected President of the United States. I just hope he doesn't completely fuck it up.

 

[dad4aa]

I actually spent the first 21 years of my life in a small town in Northeast Ohio. You know as well as I do, that those people who sit at the diner complaining over coffee, and who sometimes drop the N word, are the same people who would pull a person out of a burning car without bothering to even register what race they are. Those are the same people who give heavily to their church, who spends its money helping Middle Eastern refugees to put down roots in their own community, just like happened with my church and the Vietnamese refugees.

Those people didn't vote for Trump because "Hey, He's a racist, just like us!". They voted for him because they KNOW that Clinton was going to sell them all down the river the moment she got into office, just to enrich herself. They are tired of politicians getting wealthy by selling their influence, while doing nothing for their constituents. Trump MIGHT end up doing just that. But Clinton WAS going to do that. THAT is the choice that got Donald J Trump elected President of the United States. I just hope he doesn't completely fuck it up.

Great post...as usual

 

[gkIrish]

That's great and all but I gave you my take on the election chances while it was happening. There was a very clear Trump bump after the Comey letter, go look at it yourself.

And you shouldn't act like he creamed her. At the end of it she will have received millions (that's plural) more votes than him.

If winning the popular vote was the goal of the election, candidates would campaign differently. There is really no way to know what would have happened in that alternate reality.

 

[johnnycando]

If winning the popular vote was the goal of the election, candidates would campaign differently. There is really no way to know what would have happened in that alternate reality.

Egg-fuckin-zactly.

Sour grapes; Clinton lost because it sucks to suck.

 

[connor_in]

I actually spent the first 21 years of my life in a small town in Northeast Ohio. You know as well as I do, that those people who sit at the diner complaining over coffee, and who sometimes drop the N word, are the same people who would pull a person out of a burning car without bothering to even register what race they are. Those are the same people who give heavily to their church, who spends its money helping Middle Eastern refugees to put down roots in their own community, just like happened with my church and the Vietnamese refugees.

Those people didn't vote for Trump because "Hey, He's a racist, just like us!". They voted for him because they KNOW that Clinton was going to sell them all down the river the moment she got into office, just to enrich herself. They are tired of politicians getting wealthy by selling their influence, while doing nothing for their constituents. Trump MIGHT end up doing just that. But Clinton WAS going to do that. THAT is the choice that got Donald J Trump elected President of the United States. I just hope he doesn't completely fuck it up.

If winning the popular vote was the goal of the election, candidates would campaign differently. There is really no way to know what would have happened in that alternate reality.

Thumbs up for both of these

 

[dang227]

I actually spent the first 21 years of my life in a small town in Northeast Ohio. You know as well as I do, that those people who sit at the diner complaining over coffee, and who sometimes drop the N word, are the same people who would pull a person out of a burning car without bothering to even register what race they are. Those are the same people who give heavily to their church, who spends its money helping Middle Eastern refugees to put down roots in their own community, just like happened with my church and the Vietnamese refugees.



Those people didn't vote for Trump because "Hey, He's a racist, just like us!". They voted for him because they KNOW that Clinton was going to sell them all down the river the moment she got into office, just to enrich herself. They are tired of politicians getting wealthy by selling their influence, while doing nothing for their constituents. Trump MIGHT end up doing just that. But Clinton WAS going to do that. THAT is the choice that got Donald J Trump elected President of the United States. I just hope he doesn't completely fuck it up.

As you know, I currently live in that town and you are spot on. The only people I know who voted for Hillary are hardcore D's. Most voted for Trump because they are sick of the current system and he provided some hope he'll be different.

 

[connor_in]

I normally do not get into political discussions because most of the time they go no where. I am confused as the purpose for the protesters though. Is it just because they are mad their candidate didn't win? My view on protesting is that you protest with a solution in mind. I.e bus boycott was to have equality when riding the bus, the sit ins were to have equality in all diners, etc.

What is the end result they hope to accomplish? To have Trump step down before he even takes office? That won't happen. So again what's the purpose?

My guess on the protests is that the first day or two many of them had ties to the people's feels, in their minds shock, sadness, disappointment, many worry over what will happen as they were sold that Not Hillary was HITLER. However, at this point, I think those people have calmed down and realized the world will keep on turning. Most of the ones now I think have been taken over by the professional protesters thus the increase in violence and damage. Sadly, I also find it interesting that those in the leadership of the Ds and in the MSM have failed to more forcefully call out even the worst of the riots.

 

[kmoose]

My guess on the protests is that the first day or two many of them had ties to the people's feels, in their minds shock, sadness, disappointment, many worry over what will happen as they were sold that Not Hillary was HITLER. However, at this point, I think those people have calmed down and realized the world will keep on turning. Most of the ones now I think have been taken over by the professional protesters thus the increase in violence and damage. Sadly, I also find it interesting that those in the leadership of the Ds and in the MSM have failed to more forcefully call out even the worst of the riots.

^This^ Someone should start the hashtag #NotMyCountrymen

 

[wizards8507]

If winning the popular vote was the goal of the election, candidates would campaign differently. There is really no way to know what would have happened in that alternate reality.

Not to mention that the popular vote lead is BS. They're not counting absentee ballots in many states and those usually go 2/3 Republican.

 

[Buster Bluth]

If winning the popular vote was the goal of the election, candidates would campaign differently. There is really no way to know what would have happened in that alternate reality.

I'm not questionine the legitimacy of the win. Simply saying running around like he has some sort of mandate after losing the popular vote by millions is sorta weird.

I can only imagine if it happened to the Republicans, Glenn Beck would be leading a million-man march in a tricorn with banners reading "We The People" everywhere.

 

[johnnycando]

I'm not questionine the legitimacy of the win. Simply saying running around like he has some sort of mandate after losing the popular vote by millions is sorta weird.

I can only imagine if it happened to the Republicans, Glenn Beck would be leading a million-man march in a tricorn with banners reading "We The People" everywhere.

There would be no protests and violence like is going on. Wake up man.

 

[IrishJayhawk]

There would be no protests and violence like is going on. Wake up man.

How can you say that after Trump openly claimed the election was rigged and refused to say that he would accept the results of the election?

Note: Any protest with violence is garbage. Blocking traffic is silly. I don't condone any of that. Protests that are peaceful are fine, though I'm not engaging in any of them.

ETA: Also, I'm not entirely sure what we're protesting. It was an election. He won. Demonstrations about his rhetoric? Fine. Protest the results of the election? Dumb.

 

[Buster Bluth]

I actually spent the first 21 years of my life in a small town in Northeast Ohio. You know as well as I do, that those people who sit at the diner complaining over coffee, and who sometimes drop the N word, are the same people who would pull a person out of a burning car without bothering to even register what race they are. Those are the same people who give heavily to their church, who spends its money helping Middle Eastern refugees to put down roots in their own community, just like happened with my church and the Vietnamese refugees.

Those people didn't vote for Trump because "Hey, He's a racist, just like us!". They voted for him because they KNOW that Clinton was going to sell them all down the river the moment she got into office, just to enrich herself. They are tired of politicians getting wealthy by selling their influence, while doing nothing for their constituents. Trump MIGHT end up doing just that. But Clinton WAS going to do that. THAT is the choice that got Donald J Trump elected President of the United States. I just hope he doesn't completely fuck it up.

A Presidential candidate has a responsibility to not be sloppy when he brings up immigration or racial matters, not sloppily claim to ban all Muslims from immigration or build a stupid wall. I think the hate-filled Breitbart schmuck and Roger Ailes excelled in getting people to hear what they wanted to hear and in my experience on the ground in NW Ohio, too much of that was antogonizing particular groups in the US and I have no respect for that. I guess we'll just agree to disagree.

But I do believe that every President should start off with a blank slate. Clearly, so does he. In the days following his victory he's walked back 1) retreating from Korea, 2) seven-point plan to rebuild Obamacare, 3) building a wall on the border, etc.

 

[Buster Bluth]

There would be no protests and violence like is going on. Wake up man.

Yeah okay...

People are stupid and any large group of them will have violence and egregious stupidity.

 

[kmoose]

Simply saying running around like he has some sort of mandate after losing the popular vote by millions is sorta weird.

When has he done that? He's softened many of his stances. He is way more trying to be moderate than throw some partisan "mandate" around.

 

[IrishJayhawk]

When has he done that? He's softened many of his stances. He is way more trying to be moderate than throw some partisan "mandate" around.

His surrogates are saying it.

Giuliani: Trump definitely has mandate - POLITICO

Paul Ryan declares a 'mandate' for Donald Trump | MSNBC

Donald Trump Wins Constitutional Mandate as Democrats Bet on Anarchy - Breitbart

 

[Buster Bluth]

When has he done that?

I believe I was referring to Wild Bill when I said "and you shouldn't act like he creamed her."

He's softened many of his stances. He is way more trying to be moderate than throw some partisan "mandate" around.

Agree and I think this is going to be immensely interesting. He said a lot of bold, dumb shit during the campaign. But that stuff got the people going. They backed him on much of that. He can either retreat to sensibility, granting establishment Reps a victory and abandoning his coalition, or he can try to act on his promises and struggle getting jackshit through the establishment's Congress.

Acknowledging that forces people to admit one big fact: Donald Trump is on a Conservative or a Republican, and he basically destroyed both parties in 2016. That's why I said the worst thing that could have happened was that the Republicans won the Senate. I think it's a no-brainer that he'd be better off with a divided Congress, sorta like how Clinton wanted a Republican Congress in 1996 and didn't fund Democrats' Senate races well.

A victory for establishment Republicans is a loss for Trumpland. That's going to be echoed by me a thousand times over the next four years. People voted for Trump not because they were racists, but because they want their family-sustaining factory job back. And I have news for those people: entrusting Mitch McConnell and Paul Ryan to fix that is a recipe for bad news. The Republican establishment has a long history of busting northern unions, moving the $40/hr job in Michigan to a $12/hr job in South Carolina, and proclaiming "job creation!" while simultaneously criticizing blue states for not being business friendly. What's the difference for a place like Monroe, MI or Oshkosh, WI if the factory leaves for Mexico or Georgia? That's what I think they may learn the hard way if the Republican establishment gets their way.

 

[kmoose]

I believe I was referring to Wild Bill when I said "and you shouldn't act like he creamed her."




Agree and I think this is going to be immensely interesting. He said a lot of bold, dumb shit during the campaign. But that stuff got the people going. They backed him on much of that. He can either retreat to sensibility, granting establishment Reps a victory and abandoning his coalition, or he can try to act on his promises and struggle getting jackshit through the establishment's Congress.

OR............. he can just do what is right for the people, like the President is supposed to fucking do.

 

[yankeehater]

I actually spent the first 21 years of my life in a small town in Northeast Ohio. You know as well as I do, that those people who sit at the diner complaining over coffee, and who sometimes drop the N word, are the same people who would pull a person out of a burning car without bothering to even register what race they are. Those are the same people who give heavily to their church, who spends its money helping Middle Eastern refugees to put down roots in their own community, just like happened with my church and the Vietnamese refugees.

Those people didn't vote for Trump because "Hey, He's a racist, just like us!". They voted for him because they KNOW that Clinton was going to sell them all down the river the moment she got into office, just to enrich herself. They are tired of politicians getting wealthy by selling their influence, while doing nothing for their constituents. Trump MIGHT end up doing just that. But Clinton WAS going to do that. THAT is the choice that got Donald J Trump elected President of the United States. I just hope he doesn't completely fuck it up.

I completely agree....it is just that simple.

 

[johnnycando]

OR............. he can just do what is right for the people, like the President is supposed to fucking do.

Exactly.

 

[NDgradstudent]

I'm not questionine the legitimacy of the win. Simply saying running around like he has some sort of mandate after losing the popular vote by millions is sorta weird.

I can only imagine if it happened to the Republicans, Glenn Beck would be leading a million-man march in a tricorn with banners reading "We The People" everywhere.

He didn't lose it by "millions." This has happened four times before in U.S. history; if you don't like the system you can change it. (I wouldn't object to changing it.)

In any case, there is no such thing as a "mandate" based on the Presidential election results. The "mandate" comes from the GOP holding onto the House and Senate, even when the Senate map was extremely favorable to the Democrats. It's all a matter of what a majority in those chambers will agree to.

 

[Buster Bluth]

OR............. he can just do what is right for the people, like the President is supposed to fucking do.

You'd need to completely revamp campaign financing laws to get that accomplished. And that was one of Trump's biggest con jobs of the campaign. While he went around touting his self-financed campaign that wasn't beholden to donors, the Republican platform at the convention called for a repeal of restrictions on individual limits and allowing all donations to be anonymous. It was basically the most donor-friendly set of political goals ever.

Add that to the list of stuff we'll be learning the hard way during the next administration, should the establishment win.

 

[yankeehater]

I believe exit polls showed 52% of voters said the economy was #1 reason for their selection and I also believe the right track/wrong track polling went as high as 90% for wrong track in some exit polls. All of that favored Trump.