2016 Presidential Horse Race

[BGIF]

Rick Perry drops out of 2016 presidential race - CNNPolitics.com


Who?

 

[ulukinatme]

-- Michael Moore
TIFF: Michael Moore Talks "Prankish" New Film, Donald Trump's Brain and Hillary Clinton in Office (Q&A) - Hollywood Reporter

Michael Moore? I've never been so sure I don't want Hillary as president.

 

[Ultimate Penn St. Hater]

Rick Perry drops out of 2016 presidential race - CNNPolitics.com


Who?

I thought he would at least wait until after his 2nd JV Debate.

 

[BobD]

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/k8TwRmX6zs4" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

 

[GoIrish41]

Bernie Sanders draws even with Hillary Clinton in Iowa - CNNPolitics.com

Bernie is the man!

 

[Cackalacky]

Bernie is the man!

I can't keep track of which politics thread.I posted it in but Bernie actually is showing a 10 point lead in Iowa and a 20 point lead in NH.

 

[Polish Leppy 22]

Bernie is the man!

Shows how weak the Dems' bench is right now for 2016. If Hillary didn't have the server issue, he'd be a little blip. Once Biden jumps in, Bernie goes to back of the line. Again.

 

[GoIrish41]

Shows how weak the Dems' bench is right now for 2016. If Hillary didn't have the server issue, he'd be a little blip. Once Biden jumps in, Bernie goes to back of the line. Again.

I don't think so. Bernie seems to be for real all by himself. He was attracting big crowds befor the email thing blew up. He's just continuing to gain support. He has a strong message and people are starting to listen. He is no bench warmer. He is a viable candidate no matter what Hillary is doing.

 

[yankeeND]

I don't think so. Bernie seems to be for real all by himself. He was attracting big crowds befor the email thing blew up. He's just continuing to gain support. He has a strong message and people are starting to listen. He is no bench warmer. He is a viable candidate no matter what Hillary is doing.

I'm a conservative, but I definitely like Bernie on that side of the fence. It's not about party so much for me as I pray for the day where we have somebody that really cares about us again.

 

[kmoose]

I'm a conservative, but I definitely like Bernie on that side of the fence. It's not about party so much for me as I pray for the day where we have somebody that really cares about us again.

Don't kid yourself........... Sanders doesn't care about "us". Many candidates care about the big businesses that make up the majority of their campaign funding. Sanders cares about the Unions that make up his majority.

 

[yankeeND]

Don't kid yourself........... Sanders doesn't care about "us". Many candidates care about the big businesses that make up the majority of their campaign funding. Sanders cares about the Unions that make up his majority.

Oh, I hear ya, I just meant in general. As far as Bernie is concerned, I just prefer him as the Dem. candidate over the other options.

 

[alohagoirish]

All democrats support unions , which only have a few million members left in America in any event and we all can see the great benefits we have gotten from the collapse of the unions. Unions were a driving force in the creation of what once was the great middle class and is now the disappearing middle class.

Sanders may or may not support "us" depending on your point of view. What he does not support is watching the country turn into an Oligarchy. Run lock, stock, and barrel by the ruling class.

Even the republican frontrunner a poster boy billionaire for the ruling class , understands this is not good for our society , our stability, or our future. Trump freely admits our country has been bought and paid for , mostly by people he knows....people that make puppets out of their bought politicians , people Trump fully admits only care about themselves , and to quote " a lot of these people are not nice people". It would be funny if it wasn't so true.

Both guys ironically come to the same conclusion from very opposite points of reference.

 

[Cackalacky]

Shows how weak the Dems' bench is right now for 2016. If Hillary didn't have the server issue, he'd be a little blip. Once Biden jumps in, Bernie goes to back of the line. Again.

You keep telling yourself that buddy.

 

[Cackalacky]

Don't kid yourself........... Sanders doesn't care about "us". Many candidates care about the big businesses that make up the majority of their campaign funding. Sanders cares about the Unions that make up his majority.

Not sure what you mean by any of this. He didn't have any major union supporters. They all are backing HRC at the moment. You should maybe read his platform and see what he is actually for. He has no SuperPAC. He walks.to work everyday. He takes coach flights to his rallies.

90-95% of his platform is for 90% of Americans.

 

[kmoose]

Not sure what you mean by any of this. He didn't have any major union supporters. They all are backing HRC at the moment. You should maybe read his platform and see what he is actually for. He has no SuperPAC. He walks.to work everyday. He takes coach flights to his rallies.

90-95% of his platform is for 90% of Americans.

How do you explain 3 of his top 5 contributors being unions, then?

https://www.opensecrets.org/politicians/contrib.php?cycle=2016&cid=N00000528&type=I&newmem=N

 

[Cackalacky]

How do you explain 3 of his top 5 contributors being unions, then?

https://www.opensecrets.org/politicians/contrib.php?cycle=2016&cid=N00000528&type=I&newmem=N

I was thinking presidential endorsements not Senate campaign donations. Ok ...yes, unions donated to his Senate campaign.

What I meant is that HRC has all of the major union endorsements at this moment (that have come out).

Some unions are supporting HRC over the wishes of their members:
Machinists Union Members Outraged Over Hillary Clinton Endorsement, Say They Want Bernie Sanders - Working In These Times

His average presidential campaign donation is around $31 from almost exclusively individuals.

His platform is geared for the middle and lower class particularly working men of all trades making middle income wages, not unions.

 

[kmoose]

His platform is geared for the middle and lower class particularly working men of all trades making middle income wages, not unions.

And Obama's platform was geared toward shutting down Gitmo and transparent government. How'd that work out?

That's not meant as a dig at you, that's just my cynicism peeking it's head out. Most of these candidates have good intentions; good intentions that will be crushed once they get into office and people threaten to reveal all of their skeletons if they don't scratch their back.

The only reason that I would like to see Trump change his attitude to where I could vote for him in good conscience, is because he doesn't need anyone's money, favor, or silence. He might be able to get some stuff done that would actually make a real change and get the middle class ball rolling again.

 

[GoIrish41]

And Obama's platform was geared toward shutting down Gitmo and transparent government. How'd that work out?

That's not meant as a dig at you, that's just my cynicism peeking it's head out. Most of these candidates have good intentions; good intentions that will be crushed once they get into office and people threaten to reveal all of their skeletons if they don't scratch their back.

The only reason that I would like to see Trump change his attitude to where I could vote for him in good conscience, is because he doesn't need anyone's money, favor, or silence. He might be able to get some stuff done that would actually make a real change and get the middle class ball rolling again.

Now who is kidding themselves?

Even if he could get some things done, what do you think those things might be? Have you listened to him, at all? He disqualified himself for a huge portion of the country during his announcement to run for President and he's continued to spew hateful garbage ever since. How could your conscience ever let you vote for such a repulsive douche -- even if he stopped the ridiculous rhetoric from this point forward?

 

[EddytoNow]

As strange as it may seem both Bernie Sanders and Donald Trump are appealing to the same basic emotions in the electorate. Their supporters are angry and frustrated at the status quo. Polled primary voters in both parties are saying "I'm fed up to here with this ****!"

The working class and poor supporters of the Democratic party are tired of seeing the fruits of their labor distributed so unequally. They want a more equitable distribution of the country's wealth. They feel the wealthy class is not paying their fair share.

The working class supporters of the Republican Party have been convinced that immigrants and the less fortunate are the cause of all their misfortune. They are convinced that they would be wealthier if it weren't for programs supporting education, the poor, the sick, or the elderly. They are holding out hope that someday they will be part of the wealthy class that is reaping most of the benefits of their labor.

In reality, the working class has been sold a bill of goods. The only way they will see any significant change in their lives is to unite and demand an economic plan that benefits everyone. Neither political party is offering a solution, and IMHO that is why Bernie Sanders and Donald Trump have such widespread support. A good portion of the electorate is saying "F*** You!" to both political parties by supporting the candidates least representative of the status quo.

 

[kmoose]

Now who is kidding themselves?

Even if he could get some things done, what do you think those things might be? Have you listened to him, at all? He disqualified himself for a huge portion of the country during his announcement to run for President and he's continued to spew hateful garbage ever since. How could your conscience ever let you vote for such a repulsive douche -- even if he stopped the ridiculous rhetoric from this point forward?

As opposed to voting for a shrew who is only where she is because the Democratic Party sold their souls to keep her from divorcing her philandering husband while he was President?

I think he could bring jobs back to the US, for one. Why do you think that the middle class has disappeared in America? The heyday of middle class America revolved around manufacturing. We made nearly everything that we needed. Kids who couldn't, or didn't want to, go to college could still earn a living wage by working in the factory. It wasn't always sexy, but it paid the bills and allowed a person to be productive. Those jobs have practically all moved overseas now. By "hateful garbage", do you mean statements like "all Mexicans are rapists"? Which he never actually said...

Note that I did not say "change his words", I said "change his attitude". But that's ok....... you hear what you want to hear. Don't let anyone else tell you otherwise.

 

[GoIrish41]

As opposed to voting for a shrew who is only where she is because the Democratic Party sold their souls to keep her from divorcing her philandering husband while he was President?

I think he could bring jobs back to the US, for one. Why do you think that the middle class has disappeared in America? The heyday of middle class America revolved around manufacturing. We made nearly everything that we needed. Kids who couldn't, or didn't want to, go to college could still earn a living wage by working in the factory. It wasn't always sexy, but it paid the bills and allowed a person to be productive. Those jobs have practically all moved overseas now. By "hateful garbage", do you mean statements like "all Mexicans are rapists"? Which he never actually said...

Note that I did not say "change his words", I said "change his attitude". But that's ok....... you hear what you want to hear. Don't let anyone else tell you otherwise.

By hateful garbage I mean

"She was bleeding out of ... Whatever ..."

"Look at that face ... How could you vote for someone who looks like that?"

"I like pilots who don't get shot down. John McCain is no hero."

"They are rapists!"

"They are morons" (speaking of everyone serving in government)

Virtually every time he speaks he says something offensive to someone. I have not advocated for Hillary. In fact I have said repeatedly that I support Bernie, whom you inaccurately characterize as being beholden to unions. Dems don't have 19 candidates, but they still have more than one choice in the primary. Republicans have tons of choices but, based on the polls, seem to want the offensive bigot to get the nod ... If he'd only change his attitude. There is a reason why white supremacy groups are in his corner. Besides, He needs Congress to get anything done, but is making that more difficult by offending all of them on a daily basis. If he becomes president, he will be on an island.

 

[Veritate Duce Progredi]

Shows how weak the Dems' bench is right now for 2016. If Hillary didn't have the server issue, he'd be a little blip. Once Biden jumps in, Bernie goes to back of the line. Again.

This is a joke, right? Biden is the antithesis of what people want. Bernie at minimum, has the facade of someone running their campaign correctly. All of his policies excepting in utero children tend to align with where I'm at.

Which, come to think of it, may not bode well for him given I am often in a super minority.

Don't kid yourself........... Sanders doesn't care about "us". Many candidates care about the big businesses that make up the majority of their campaign funding. Sanders cares about the Unions that make up his majority.

So.....because he's received money from unions, he doesn't care about people? If this is true, don't drop that narrative after Trump is exposed as a fraud and the next republican candidate takes his place because they will be receiving big business campaign funding, which obviously means they couldn't possibly care about "us".

Not sure what you mean by any of this. He didn't have any major union supporters. They all are backing HRC at the moment. You should maybe read his platform and see what he is actually for. He has no SuperPAC. He walks.to work everyday. He takes coach flights to his rallies.

90-95% of his platform is for 90% of Americans.

That's not enough Cack, he needs to have given all of his money away and not allowed anyone to contribute more than $31. He's now indebted to the unions, whateverTF that means. Also, we all know that every candidate had good intentions before being elected, then failed to deliver so..........Trump.

 

[Cackalacky]

And Obama's platform was geared toward shutting down Gitmo and transparent government. How'd that work out?

That's not meant as a dig at you, that's just my cynicism peeking it's head out. Most of these candidates have good intentions; good intentions that will be crushed once they get into office and people threaten to reveal all of their skeletons if they don't scratch their back.

The only reason that I would like to see Trump change his attitude to where I could vote for him in good conscience, is because he doesn't need anyone's money, favor, or silence. He might be able to get some stuff done that would actually make a real change and get the middle class ball rolling again.

None taken. You could check his platform and accomplishments since he became mayor and I doubt you find little deviance btw his voting record, bills, and accomplishments. The dude walks the walk and talks the talk. Obama became a center right corporatist after his first year in the Office. I don't know what Bernie would become if he gets it but my money is on him telling all the monied interests to f'off as much as possible because he has never needed them to get his job done. And if you go back and look at his career donations from the unions, it pales in comparison to other Dems. He is like the least compensated politician on the Hill.

Its all hypothetical right now, but IMO out of all the people running for pres, Sanders is the one most likely to attempt to bridge gaps but also stick to his guns in the face of a raw deal and not give into donor pressure.Sanders is in the same boat as Trump essentially. Right now both of them are sufficiently winning without the big donors. What happens after primaries begin? IDK.

 

[Wild Bill]

Price Tag of Bernie Sanders’s Proposals: $18 Trillion - WSJ

In all, he backs at least $18 trillion in new spending over a decade...To pay for it, Mr. Sanders, a Vermont independent running for the Democratic nomination, has so far detailed tax increases that could bring in as much as $6.5 trillion over 10 years, according to his staff.

The Sanders program amounts to increasing total federal spending by about one-third—to a projected $68 trillion or so over 10 years.

Taken together, these proposals are attractive to many Democrats, said Jared Bernstein, an economist at the liberal Center on Budget and Policy Priorities, and would transform the U.S. into an economy much more like those in Europe, with a significantly larger share of economic activity in government hands. “It’s not the model we employ [in the U.S.], but it is a viable economic model,” he said. Still, he cautioned the revenue would have to come from the middle class as well as the wealthy.

 

[EddytoNow]

...That's not enough Cack, he needs to have given all of his money away and not allowed anyone to contribute more than $31. He's now indebted to the unions, whatever TF that means. Also, we all know that every candidate had good intentions before being elected, then failed to deliver so..........Trump.

If a corporation is a person and has a right to spend its money to support a political candidate as an expression of free speech isn't a union also a person with a free speech right to spend its money in support of the political candidate of its choice?

If so, I think the union is much more in touch with the needs and desires of working class Americans than any corporation could ever be? Different interests entirely. One supports the working class and policies to improve its lot. One supports the wealthy class and giving the average worker as little as possible while maintaining the cash flow into the corporate coffers. One is for keeping jobs in America. One is for taking jobs out of America and giving them to the lowest bidder. If the average worker wants to know who supports his or her interests, he or she need only follow the money.

 

[Wild Bill]

If a corporation is a person and has a right to spend its money to support a political candidate as an expression of free speech isn't a union also a person with a free speech right to spend its money in support of the political candidate of its choice?

If so, I think the union is much more in touch with the needs and desires of working class Americans than any corporation could ever be? Different interests entirely. One supports the working class and policies to improve its lot. One supports the wealthy class and giving the average worker as little as possible while maintaining the cash flow into the corporate coffers. One is for keeping jobs in America. One is for taking jobs out of America and giving them to the lowest bidder. If the average worker wants to know who supports his or her interests, he or she need only follow the money.

Unions are just as self interested as corporations. Don't kid yourself.

 

[phgreek]

If a corporation is a person and has a right to spend its money to support a political candidate as an expression of free speech isn't a union also a person with a free speech right to spend its money in support of the political candidate of its choice?

If so, I think the union is much more in touch with the needs and desires of working class Americans than any corporation could ever be? Different interests entirely. One supports the working class and policies to improve its lot. One supports the wealthy class and giving the average worker as little as possible while maintaining the cash flow into the corporate coffers. One is for keeping jobs in America. One is for taking jobs out of America and giving them to the lowest bidder. If the average worker wants to know who supports his or her interests, he or she need only follow the money.

Yes. Don't like either in the political process as they are.

and FWIW, my discomfort with Unions is not the concept...it is the practice. Unions have tended toward excess to the point of being injurious to entire industries. Seriously, have you seen some of the retirement packages from Detroit automakers. Unions seem to suffer from the same lack of vision and "meism" as any corporation, except that the reality is, the excesses in Labor contracts cannot be quickly curtailed to stabilize the company/industry.

 

[Buster Bluth]

There are many different types of unions. The UAW's issues with GM/Ford/Chrysler aren't comparable to the many trades unions, etc. Unions aren't a monolithic group.

 

[Wild Bill]

There are many different types of unions. The UAW's issues with GM/Ford/Chrysler aren't comparable to the many trades unions, etc. Unions aren't a monolithic group.

Yes, and they're all self interested. They promote laws/policies that benefit their own agenda, even if it's at the detriment of other unions, non-union workers or the country as a whole.

 

[GoIrish41]

Yes, and they're all self interested. They promote laws/policies that benefit their own agenda, even if it's at the detriment of other unions, non-union workers or the country as a whole.

Neither should have a place in our politics ... corporations or unions. Neither have any business influencing our elections, let alone national policy.