2016 Presidential Horse Race

2016 Presidential Horse Race


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GoIrish41

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You're talking out of both sides of your mouth. On the one hand, you argue that only moderate Republican candidates can get elected. On the other hand, you say a major problem with Republicans is than they're hypocritical about budget management because they want to cut taxes but continue to spend like the Democrats do. In other words, the problem with Republican politicians is that they abandon conservatism.

I believe it is not even debatable that moderate candidates would have a better shot at getting elected in national elections than those further right. But, moderates are pushed to make promises about cutting taxes during the primaries.Those that win win find out quickly they are forced to keep those promises above all others, so when they move on to other initiatives (that cost money) they find they have drained the federal account. They can't just stop governing, so they spend money they do not have. For all the bluster of conservatives, those that win always find out that getting things done costs money, and when you strip away your income, money is in short supply. My opinion is that "conservatism" is little more than a talking point when reality sets in, because there are a whole lot of people on the other side who are not just going to lay down and allow you to dismantle programs they have fought for for decades.
 

GoIrish41

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You and I are usually lock step in everything, but this time we are not.

I have read studies/polling figures that suggest the general public is leaning more left than 20 years ago. Makes sense considering the views held by many now on Gay marriage and weed. During that time both republicans and democrats have become more "liberal or conservative" since that time. However, that isn't the whole story.

For the last 20 years, the average Democrat has slowly, and steadily, moved left. Conservatives, for the most part, stayed pretty consistent for the first 10 years and then has moved right quickly over the last 10 years. So what took the Dem's 20 years to do, the R's took 10.

Keeping that in mind, consider the notion that the right has put up candidates recently who they perceived were the most moderate. But they were moderate only when compared to the individuals that have pushed the party right at an accelerating pace. Now compare that to the general population, who has slowly moved left, the republican party looks more and more estranged. Meanwhile, the Democrats put up someone left of center for their own party, who appears to be ultra left to the average republican. To the general public, the Dem candidate appears to be somewhat liberal, but to the average republican, looks damn near socialist. It really is all about perception and where you stand on the political spectrum.

My biggest complaint, as what Cuban said, is that the R's focus far too much time and effort on social policies, the exact policies that mainstream America are moving slowly left. They don't need to fight that battle. Instead, focus time and effort on policies that will promote the notion of small government while still tackling the issues like immigration in a sensible way that will appeal to the average voter. Unfortunately, the base of the party is moving farther right, which propels this notion to "fix" the social issues back to their comfort zone. Problem is, their comfort zone is no longer the comfort zone of the average citizen.

When was the last time we agreed on anything in this thread? Good analysis and post!
 
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Cackalacky

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Mine was similar, but HRC was only at 6% for me and Fiorina was up near the top just behind Rubio.

My biggest question on this is what is causing Huckabee to be the top R for most of the D's here?

I saw that Huckabee was @ 45% with me as well. I missed that and had to go back and look. It said I agreed with him on no topics in the detailed results page. IDK. I can't be any more unlike him and I think he is the worst candidate that's actually allowed to speak.
 
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Cackalacky

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They love this guy......
10403612_10155189623715521_1838841106141100229_n.jpg

Give 'em the D.
 

IrishJayhawk

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So if they were the most moderate of the bunch, this statement is simply not true:



The reality is that the GOP ran their moderates and lost to the most left wing candidate the dems could find.

The RINOs have burned conservatives far too many times with their liberal tax and spend nonsense. They should be exposed before they get power.

I don't think that's even close to being true. John Edwards and Dennis Kucinich were both in the 2008 primary. It was down to two very similar candidates. Obama won, in large part because Hillary voted for the Iraq war.

And the numbers don't generally support the conclusion that Obama is as liberal as the conservative media claims.
http://fivethirtyeight.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/04/29/how-liberal-is-president-obama/?_r=0
Is Barack Obama the most liberal president ever? - The Washington Post

Through 2012, he was also rated to be far less liberal than Bush was conservative.

imrs.php


Here's what (ETA: formerly Pat Buchanan's) the American Conservative had to say on the topic late last year.
Obama Is a Republican | The American Conservative

And the Republicans only nominated relative moderates after they had renounced everything that made them moderate.

ETA: Ndaccountant's post above is spot on.
 
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phgreek

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Woods is a pyschopath on twitter.

...just on twitter?

He makes me laugh...I think he could thrive in that John Stewart bubble where you can pull faces at video clips...and have people think you are brilliant. But pull the comedy rip cord when you get challenged...perfect gig for woods.
 

Grahambo

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As someone who works in the intelligence community and has for 6 years with the handling of some of the highest classifications you can think of, this IS an issue. Let alone the fact that if I took something out of the 'office' with any type of classification to it, I would be in jail right now and if I tried the whole, I didn't know excuse, yeah. ha. The Grahambo account would go cold for 20 years.

Anyways, with the way our systems work you MUST put a classification in your email. And when I mean must, I don't mean you have to make sure, I mean, when you click submit, it FORCES you to make a classification, no other way around it. That may not mean much to some but its a HUGE deal inside the community.

Knowing the type of person she is when cameras aren't rolling...just no. And again, this doesn't even touch the Benghazi situation amongst others.
 

connor_in

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...just on twitter?

He makes me laugh...I think he could thrive in that John Stewart bubble where you can pull faces at video clips...and have people think you are brilliant. But pull the comedy rip cord when you get challenged...perfect gig for woods.

I honestly could see it. There are those who would love him for his views and others that would love to hate him. He has played enough bad guys in his career that that many already have him in that pigeon hole
 

Grahambo

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I would have thought he'd be a little higher on the list. But cut me some slack, I have him 13 points higher than his actual poll numbers. :)


Secretly, its really me who is on that list since me and him share the same last name (no relation) haha
 

IrishinSyria

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As someone who works in the intelligence community and has for 6 years with the handling of some of the highest classifications you can think of, this IS an issue. Let alone the fact that if I took something out of the 'office' with any type of classification to it, I would be in jail right now and if I tried the whole, I didn't know excuse, yeah. ha. The Grahambo account would go cold for 20 years.

Anyways, with the way our systems work you MUST put a classification in your email. And when I mean must, I don't mean you have to make sure, I mean, when you click submit, it FORCES you to make a classification, no other way around it. That may not mean much to some but its a HUGE deal inside the community.

Knowing the type of person she is when cameras aren't rolling...just no. And again, this doesn't even touch the Benghazi situation amongst others.

Can you cite one example of someone going to the brig for putting classified onto a lower network. Losing your clearance, sure, but jail?

And as far as I can tell, we're not talking about wholesale pulling something off the SIPR (or higher) and uploading it onto the NIPR. We're talking about summaries of classified information making their way to the NIPR. We also don't even know that the e-mails originated with her. It could have been someone else on the chain sending her stuff which was improperly marked/shouldn't have been on the NIPR. We're talking violations, not crimes here.
 

connor_in

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Can you cite one example of someone going to the brig for putting classified onto a lower network. Losing your clearance, sure, but jail?

And as far as I can tell, we're not talking about wholesale pulling something off the SIPR (or higher) and uploading it onto the NIPR. We're talking about summaries of classified information making their way to the NIPR. We also don't even know that the e-mails originated with her. It could have been someone else on the chain sending her stuff which was improperly marked/shouldn't have been on the NIPR. We're talking violations, not crimes here.

He would, but then he'd have to kill ya.


No...really...seriously...he would.


47796571.jpg
 

RDU Irish

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Mark Cuban addressed this with a quote that suits my personal beliefs perfectly:



This is exactly why I can never make up my mind. I side with R on some issues and with D on others. There is never a R candidate who is "half-way republican" (nor is there a half-way democrat). You either take 100% one or the other. The U.S.A. is way too diverse to have a president who is a party conformist. Just my opinion.

Excellent points by Cuban. Why can't we get a third party off the ground when neither party is serious about cutting spending? A true fiscally conservative party with a focus on personal liberty would kill it IMO. If Ross Perot ran today (1992 version, not 1996) wouldn't he have a better shot than he did then?
 

GoIrish41

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Excellent points by Cuban. Why can't we get a third party off the ground when neither party is serious about cutting spending? A true fiscally conservative party with a focus on personal liberty would kill it IMO. If Ross Perot ran today (1992 version, not 1996) wouldn't he have a better shot than he did then?

Nah, he's like 90 years old. Seriously though, I voted for him twice. We are still talking about issues he brought into the light of day. But elections have changed since then. Might be harder for a third party to get traction.
 

IrishLax

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Is Donald Trump a "false flag" candidate to ensure Hillary gets elected?

Donald Trump, the 69-year-old New York real estate mogul and unrepentant bigot, is still dominating the Republican presidential primary polls. Trump’s sudden ascendance, accelerated by his willingness to insult virtually any ostensible ally within the conservative movement, has left GOP leaders dumbfounded. How did this caricature of a Republican politician, who has never held elected office, and whose personal ideology is remarkably fluid, usurp more experienced, more conservative, and better-funded candidates like Jeb Bush and Scott Walker? Within this vacuum of understanding, an almost-believable conspiracy theory has obtained currency: Donald Trump is in fact a false flag candidate whose actual mission is electing Hillary Clinton as President.

To understand the contours of this theory, it’s helpful to understand where it came from. A Google search suggests the first person to remark upon Trump’s indirect assistance to Clinton was the anti-war activist and “conservative-paleo-libertarian” Justin Raimondo. In a long blog post dated July 13—just a few days after Trump stole Jeb Bush’s lead—Raimondo argued that the timing of Trump’s entry into the presidential race, which the candidate had long hinted at but until this year never followed through on, could only be explained by a hidden “Democratic wrecking operation” designed to assist Clinton’s parallel campaign:

[Trump’s] ties to the Clintons, his past pronouncements which are in such blatant contradiction to his current fulminations, and the cries of joy from the Clintonian gallery and the media (or do I repeat myself) all point to a single conclusion: the Trump campaign is a Democratic wrecking operation aimed straight at the GOP’s base.

Donald Trump is a false-flag candidate. It’s all an act, one that benefits his good friend Hillary Clinton and the Democratic party that, until recently, counted the reality show star among its adherents. Indeed, Trump’s pronouncements—the open racism, the demagogic appeals, the faux-populist rhetoric—sound like something out of a Democratic political consultant’s imagination, a caricature of conservatism as performed by a master actor.
The idea that Trump is running an elaborate interference campaign on behalf of Hillary Clinton may sound absurd. But there is enough truth to Raimondo’s theory—it makes just enough sense—that it’s already begun to infiltrate, and inform the mainstream voices of, the mainstream Republican Party. On July 23, for example, the popular conservative writer Allen Ginzburg distilled Raimondo’s argument into a vexing thought experiment:


Ginzburg’s tweet has since been retweeted over 400 times (including, earlier this week, by Wall Street Journal columnist James Taranto, who serves on the paper’s influential editorial board).

It would, of course, be incredible—and virtually unprecedented in modern American politics—if a major party’s top candidate were to run a campaign for the purpose of electing that party’s most imposing political opponent. So what exactly supports the theory that Trump is such a candidate? Though he has recently rebranded himself as the only Republican brave enough to speak the truth about undocumented immigrants, his past associations and political positions suggest the theory is, if not entirely believable, not exactly implausible, either.

There are three main lines of argument supporting the assertion that Donald Trump is running a false flag campaign:

Trump cannot possibly be considered either a Republican or a conservative, once you account for his apparent political beliefs (many of which are remarkably liberal) and concrete policy proposals (or lack thereof).
Trump has close ties to both Hillary and Bill Clinton, and has in fact donated to her and other Democrats’ campaigns in the past.
Trump’s apparent intent to run on an independent ticket—should he lose the Republican nomination—indicates he cares more about splitting the Republican vote (essentially insuring the election of a Democratic president) than he does about actually electing Republicans. He also lacks the wherewithal and/or long-term funding to mount a legitimate presidential campaign were he to become the actual Republican nominee.
Let’s discuss each of these in detail:

Argument 1: Donald Trump is not actually a Republican (or conservative)

According to voting records, Trump is currently registered as a Republican, but in the past has been registered (and repeatedly voted) as a Democrat. In fact, he appears to have switched between the two parties at least three times in the past 14 years: In 2001, he switched from Democrat to Republican; in 2008, he re-registered as Democrat; in 2010, he re-registered as a Republican (and maintained that affiliation through 2013). So Trump is certainly a Republican, but only in the sense that any voter can register as a Republican; it’s not like party officials perform an ideological litmus tests on mere voters. (Complicating matters further is Trump’s New York City residency. Republican New Yorkers have been known to register as Democrats in order to participate in Democratic primary elections, which are frequently the only elections that matter in municipal politics.)

The question of whether Trump is conservative is trickier to answer. Within the modern conservative movement, for example, it’s more or less assumed that candidates representing conservative interests believe abortion rights should be restricted (in many cases, radically so). It’s also assumed that conservative candidates oppose the 2010 Affordable Care Act—not just the particulars of the legislation itself, but also the general idea of universal healthcare. But, as The Washington Post pointed out last month, Trump has publicly endorsed both abortion rights and universal healthcare in the past. He’s also endorsed increasing taxes on the wealthy and legalizing drugs. It’s true that Trump has since reversed his positions on abortion and the Affordable Care Act, but as many have noted, his change of heart is far from convincing.

One issue on which Trump is very right-wing, however, is immigration. Trump believes the United States is inadequately protected against invading Mexicans, and has accused undocumented immigrants from that country of raping Americans with impunity. The key to Trump’s appeal is his suggestion, which he utters repeatedly, that mainstream Republican leaders are deliberately sidelining both the issue of border security and the broader issue of immigration—a complex topic within both major parties—in order to shore up support among the country’s growing Latino population.

Trump’s implication of GOP cowardice is seductive to the segment of Republican voters who believe they’ve been sold out by the GOP to various elite interest groups who have relentlessly lobbied for immigration reform. At the same time, immigration reform happens to be an issue with which Democrats have bludgeoned Republicans among Latino voters, who are disproportionately affected by the inadequacies of the current immigration system.

In other words: Trump has focused his campaign on an issue that exposes the Republican Party to attacks from both its base (who want the party to move to the right) and Democrats (who have an obvious interest in portraying opponents of immigration reform—that is, most Republicans—as racist lunatics). If you were Hillary Clinton, it would be hard not to appreciate the strategic advantage of Trump’s campaign, which is doing the work of discrediting the Republican Party among its own voters, and the general public, for free.

Argument 2: Trump is friendly with the Clinton family

Based on his public statements, Trump seems to a) admire Bill Clinton, b) admire Chelsea Clinton even more, and c) regard Hillary Clinton with hostility. Here are some representative tweets:




Until very recently, the nature of Trump’s relationship with the Clinton family seemed entirely transactional. After all, Trump is a wealthy resident of New York, and Hillary Clinton, as a former U.S. Senator of the state, was all but required to mingle with people like Trump. During last Thursday’s Fox News debate, Trump even bragged about getting the Clintons to attend one of his weddings, knowing they wouldn’t refuse an invitation from someone who has donated hundreds of thousands of dollars to various Clinton causes, including Hillary Clinton’s 2008 presidential campaign and the Clinton Foundation.

Trump’s relationship with Bill Clinton, however, seems to have deepened in the past few years. On August 5, The Washington Post reported that Clinton spoke with Trump in May of this year about Trump’s political ambitions. Here’s the how the paper characterized the exchange (bolding ours):

Former president Bill Clinton had a private telephone conversation in late spring with Donald Trump at the same time that the billionaire investor and reality-television star was nearing a decision to run for the White House ... Four Trump allies and one Clinton associate familiar with the exchange said that Clinton encouraged Trump’s efforts to play a larger role in the Republican Party and offered his own views of the political landscape.
An aide to Bill Clinton characterized the exchange as merely “a casual chat” (those are the Post’s words), and Trump later denied the suggestion that the former President somehow persuaded him to run on the Republican ticket, but the fact that the exchange took place at all—that Clinton gives a shit about Trump’s rank within the Republican Party; that Clinton stated, whether obsequiously or sincerely, that Trump’s rank should rise—certainly suggests that Clinton could have pictured what Trump’s campaign would look like, and more importantly, what it would mean for his wife and her own presidential ambitions.

Argument 3: Trump clearly intends to run as an independent

Trump’s current threat to the Republican Party is potentially exceeded by the threat of him running against both the Republican and Democratic candidates on an independent ticket (assuming, of course, he does not secure the Republican nomination). Conservatives believe, with some justification, that an independent Trump campaign would carve away a significant chunk of otherwise Republican voters, thereby lending the Democratic nominee an easy victory. (There’s precedent: The conservative movement still blames Ross Perot’s independent run in 1992 for the election of Bill Clinton. Whether this is an accurate read has been, for years, a matter of considerable debate.)

It remains unclear whether Trump actually intends to run as an independent. But during the debate on Thursday, he pointedly refused to agree to a pledge to endorse whoever wins the Republican nomination—the strongest signal yet that he considers the Republican Party’s political and strategic objectives to be much less important than his own.

What Trump would do if another candidate won the Republican nomination is the key to the False Flag Candidate theory. The best case scenario for the GOP is that he loses and does not run as an independent, allowing the party to dismiss Trumpmania as a passing fancy. Democratic attempts to define the GOP as the party of Trump would be neutered; after all, a lot of Republican candidates look comparatively sane and electable when compared to Trump. In the absence of an independent ticket, Trump’s ridiculousness could help other Republican candidates. (The eventual candidate would still need to secure the support of the nativists Trump appeals to while attempting to win over the moderates he appalls, but that is a dance Republican presidential candidates have been practicing for years.)

But if Trump does run as an independent, then Allen Ginzburg’s suggestion above would prove correct: A Trump campaign based on the candidate’s sincere desire to become President, and a Trump campaign based on his hidden desire to see Hillary Clinton elected President, would be completely indistinguishable.

This scenario would, of course, be an unmitigated nightmare for the Republican Party. At the same time, Trump’s frontrunner status has placed party leaders, in particular the other viable candidates, in the seemingly impossible position of attempting to disavow Trump (in order to shield the party from accusations of vicious racism) without completely pissing him off (in order to lessen the possibility of an independent Trump ticket in 2016). How do you marginalize someone like Trump without marginalizing him too much?

Still, it’s unclear how an actual independent Trump campaign would unfold, given what we know (and don’t know) about both the candidate’s finances and the plans of the wealthy donors who fund Republican campaigns. Whether or not Trump is willing to spend his own money on a campaign that would almost certainly help Democrats, not Republicans — and even whether he believes that an independent Trump campaign would help Democrats — remains to be seen.

So is Trump really a Hillary Clinton plant?

There is, we’re sorry to say, no definitive evidence that Trump and Hillary Clinton are colluding to wreak havoc on the Republican Party’s 2016 primary campaign for the purpose of securing a Clinton presidency. This does not preclude the possibility that Trump has secretly decided that he wants Clinton to be president, and is now sabotaging the GOP in order to help the Democratic frontrunner; nor does it mean that Bill Clinton didn’t encourage Trump to run in order to wreak havoc on the GOP nomination process. Even in those scenarios, however, the likelihood of smoking gun is close to zero.

The lack of evidence is not the biggest problem with this conspiracy theory, though. The biggest problem is that the theory’s most important underlying assumption—that Trump is anomalous, a xenophobic buffoon posing as a Republican—is wildly ignorant of actual Republican policies.

Boiled down, Trump’s appeal to the Republican Party’s base consists of his willingness to say nakedly racist statements and his promises to enact equally racist legislation. But why is that appeal surprising? In its contemporary manifestation, the GOP has repeatedly sought the support of voters who wish to disempower and intimidate racial minorities. This isn’t just about the party’s bizarre obsession with upholding the sanctity of the Confederate flag. To this day, for example, the party continues to advocate for Voter ID laws, which are ostensibly designed to combat in-person voter fraud—a virtually non-existent phenomenon—but in practice help prevent a disproportionate number of eligible non-white voters from actually voting. Its intellectual leaders have dismissed the ubiquitous threat of police violence towards black people as illusory.

Donald Trump’s popularity indicates that this country’s most fervent conservatives are primarily concerned not with reducing abortion rights, or repealing Obamacare, but rather with preserving white hegemony in the United States. For years and years, the Republican Party has happily accommodated these kinds of conservatives under the unspoken assumption that they would never be powerful enough to publicize their own candidate. Trump speaks to the error of that assumption.

In this context, the theory that Donald Trump is secretly helping Hillary Clinton get elected is not really about the Republican Party’s hostility toward Donald Trump or its habit of inventing conspiracy theories about Hillary Clinton. (Although both factors have certainly helped with its formation.) It’s the result of a major political party coming to terms, however illogically, with who exactly its supporters are.
 
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Cackalacky

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I will say this... after deliberating on and reading about the first debate... I honestly think it was a concerted effort to hit Trump and Paul hard. They received by far the hardest hardball questions. IMO Trump crushed the questions without actually saying anything but Paul actually seemed to punt on his platform (not including the NSA). Megyn Kelly was actually coming at Trump from the left in several questions....

Frank Luntz had a pollster panel ready to rub Trump in the dirt.

If I learned anything from the first debate is that the establishment really doesn't want Paul or Trump to get the nomination.
 

phgreek

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I will say this... after deliberating on and reading about the first debate... I honestly think it was a concerted effort to hit Trump and Paul hard. They received by far the hardest hardball questions. IMO Trump crushed the questions without actually saying anything but Paul actually seemed to punt on his platform (not including the NSA). Megyn Kelly was actually coming at Trump from the left in several questions....

Frank Luntz had a pollster panel ready to rub Trump in the dirt.

If I learned anything from the first debate is that the establishment really doesn't want Paul or Trump to get the nomination.

Well, seeing as I seem to align with the establishment based on my survey, and I slept at a Holiday Inn express...I feel ready to stand in for the establishment...mmmm, no.

I will say the sentiment out there seems counter establishment to me...they have folks believing no other flavor of R can win, but no one likes the track record of the Rs that went to congress as reformers. Shrug. I'd be OK with Rand Paul. My preference would be Walker or Kaisich...neither "Looks" the part, but we will have had 8 years of a dude that "Looked" the part...SMH.
 

NCDomer

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As someone who works in the intelligence community and has for 6 years with the handling of some of the highest classifications you can think of, this IS an issue. Let alone the fact that if I took something out of the 'office' with any type of classification to it, I would be in jail right now and if I tried the whole, I didn't know excuse, yeah. ha. The Grahambo account would go cold for 20 years.

Anyways, with the way our systems work you MUST put a classification in your email. And when I mean must, I don't mean you have to make sure, I mean, when you click submit, it FORCES you to make a classification, no other way around it. That may not mean much to some but its a HUGE deal inside the community.

Knowing the type of person she is when cameras aren't rolling...just no. And again, this doesn't even touch the Benghazi situation amongst others.

Isn't this something you aren't supposed to advertise? Some poor schmuck is probably out there right now reading through all of your posts and searching for your online aliases in an attempt to gather intel. You also already post the state you live in on your profile. Having heard of the Air Force families being harassed earlier this year because of their social media profiles, I'd suggest some caution.
 
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Cackalacky

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Well, seeing as I seem to align with the establishment based on my survey, and I slept at a Holiday Inn express...I feel ready to stand in for the establishment...mmmm, no.

I will say the sentiment out there seems counter establishment to me...they have folks believing no other flavor of R can win, but no one likes the track record of the Rs that went to congress as reformers. Shrug. I'd be OK with Rand Paul. My preference would be Walker or Kaisich...neither "Looks" the part, but we will have had 8 years of a dude that "Looked" the part...SMH.

I think I understand what you are getting at but what I mean is that "THE" establishment....Big Money donors, the Beltway, whatever, do not want Paul or Trump in play at all. I recently read an article that was making fun of Paul and saying he isn't a real contender because he won't kiss the big donor's asses. I mean Trump flat out said that politicians were influenced because of donations and several candidates could not help themselves on national tv and immediately started begging for Trump's donor money lol. Neither of them are playing ball.

I feel the pressure will increase on Trump while Paul, like I said took himself out by punting on his platform.
 

GoIrish41

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The problem with the false flag theories is that they do not explain why voters are supporting him. All the back door smokey room meetings seem to have taken for granted that a crap load of voters would support him. Republicans do not have a Trump problem. They have an ignorance problem in their ranks with something like a quarter of their base. How is he attracting so much support?
 
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Cackalacky

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The problem with the false flag theories is that they do not explain why voters are supporting him. All the back door smokey room meetings seem to have taken for granted that a crap load of voters would support him. Republicans do not have a Trump problem. They have a ignorance problem in their ranks with something like a quarter of their base. How is he attracting so much support?

I think they are hitting on a few if not important topics the voters care about but the establishment is all" HEY HEY HEY...why are you being Noisy. Sit down, play ball and STFU with telling people how it really is".
 

IrishLax

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The problem with the false flag theories is that they do not explain why voters are supporting him. All the back door smokey room meetings seem to have taken for granted that a crap load of voters would support him. Republicans do not have a Trump problem. They have a ignorance problem in their ranks with something like a quarter of their base. How is he attracting so much support?

I think that's almost the converse of how to look at it.

I think that the premise is that Trump's positions will appeal to a small-but-big-enough portion of the Republican base, which will be enough to undermine any chance of a Republican winning. There's not a need to explain why people support him... the inherent premise is that you have a large chunk of right wingers that are all too eager to support a "tell it like it is" bigot.

So you get him to run and ultimately take maybe 5% of the vote away from a Republican candidate (while also providing distraction throughout the primary season) and then Hillary wins in a landslide.
 

phgreek

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I think I understand what you are getting at but what I mean is that "THE" establishment....Big Money donors, the Beltway, whatever, do not want Paul or Trump in play at all. I recently read an article that was making fun of Paul and saying he isn't a real contender because he won't kiss the big donor's asses. I mean Trump flat out said that politicians were influenced because of donations and several candidates could not help themselves on national tv and immediately started begging for Trump's donor money lol. Neither of them are playing ball.

I feel the pressure will increase on Trump while Paul, like I said took himself out by punting on his platform.

ah..that establishment...:)

Don't count Paul out yet. Lets see what happens in New Hampshire. I do think there are too many "alternative" candidates for him to put together a Paul coalition, so I don't know how much he is going to say until that field gets narrowed...He seemed like he wanted Trump and Christie off the stage ...NOW! So maybe his strategy is to get some shots in, survive and advance until he is the alternative????
 

Grahambo

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Can you cite one example of someone going to the brig for putting classified onto a lower network. Losing your clearance, sure, but jail?

And as far as I can tell, we're not talking about wholesale pulling something off the SIPR (or higher) and uploading it onto the NIPR. We're talking about summaries of classified information making their way to the NIPR. We also don't even know that the e-mails originated with her. It could have been someone else on the chain sending her stuff which was improperly marked/shouldn't have been on the NIPR. We're talking violations, not crimes here.

I didn't say anything about putting it on an unclassified network. Handling classified information without the proper security measures is a violation. Doesn't matter if it originated with her or not. If she has classified information then disseminates it without the proper markings, that is a violation.
 
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