2016 Fall Camp Thread

IrishLion

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Yeah so we have different expectations, let's agree to disagree. No need for the drama.

It's two weeks till showtime, we're gonna see both QB's play against Texas in a way that none of us know about yet, and we're rapidly approaching the time where we get our first drunken and overtly negative post-game thread... this is just Fall Camp for posting.
 
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koonja

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It's two weeks till showtime, we're gonna see both QB's play against Texas in a way that none of us know about yet, and we're rapidly approaching the time where we get our first drunken and overtly negative post-game thread... this is just Fall Camp for posting.

Negative? It's ok to be realistic. There's no need for any of this. I respect your opinion that he was decent, I just don't agree with it at all. That's not negative. Chin up. I love you.
 
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ND Fan Vancouver

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Because I was comparing expectations from last year's starting 3 receivers to what I expect for this year's starting 3, made a comment how Carlisle did nothing, and someare acting like that's not true and that I wrote it on his future tombstone, lol.

Back to fall camp - Wilfong say practice yesterday and said the 3 most impressive players were ESB, Dexter Williams, and CJ Saunders.

Respect. Sometimes I just get sick of bickering but I understand. Here's my prediction. Although untested, I think our WR's will be amongst the best in the country this year and here's why. We have Mike Denbrock. we recruit very well. Although we have a great secondary, they get beat consistently in practise by all of our WR's. I think ESB is the real deal. I really do and Boykin is definitely coming around at the Z. CJ's name keeps on popping up consistently regarding practise performers. Torri Hunter has always been unreal but over shadowed by seniority. He's gonna be a slightly less dynamic golden Tate. We have some really exciting freshman ALL whom I think can play this year and catch the ball. LAST AND NOT LEAST we have MZ and DK.
I rest my case
GO IRISH
 

IrishLion

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Negative? It's ok to be realistic. There's no need for any of this. I respect your opinion that he was decent, I just don't agree with it at all. That's not negative. Chin up. I love you.

There is a difference between "realistic" and "negative."

I was talking about our first ridiculously over-the-top thread that comes from some deep place of drunkeness and negativity, not the first thread that is valid but people probably won't like.
 
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koonja

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There is a difference between "realistic" and "negative."

I was talking about our first ridiculously over-the-top thread that comes from some deep place of drunkeness and negativity, not the first thread that is valid but people probably won't like.

That will be a thread to behold. We should place bets on what game it is.
 

Sherm Sticky

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Respect. Sometimes I just get sick of bickering but I understand. Here's my prediction. Although untested, I think our WR's will be amongst the best in the country this year and here's why. We have Mike Denbrock. we recruit very well. Although we have a great secondary, they get beat consistently in practise by all of our WR's. I think ESB is the real deal. I really do and Boykin is definitely coming around at the Z. CJ's name keeps on popping up consistently regarding practise performers. Torri Hunter has always been unreal but over shadowed by seniority. He's gonna be a slightly less dynamic golden Tate. We have some really exciting freshman ALL whom I think can play this year and catch the ball. LAST AND NOT LEAST we have MZ and DK.
I rest my case
GO IRISH



Lol practise. Lol Canadians.


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ulukinatme

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Can we name any play or game Carlisle actually made a difference? He played well that BC game but I only know that by checking his game log. He blended in. He was average at best.

No one is saying he was terrible. But, is anyone going to miss his production? We recruit at a high level. He was average at best. That's fine. I just expect improvement from that position this year.

Koon called Carlisle nothing, and nothing is less than terrible. Amir actually played a big part in that BC game. He led all receivers in receptions at 8, had 101 yards, and without his TD the Eagles win. Will was more or less shut down that game, Chris Brown and Carlisle both had more receptions and yards.

I would also argue that Carlisle had a critical play against Temple as well. Late in the 2nd quarter on our last drive, in the shadow of our own endzone, Kizer got blitzed and was able to dump the ball to Carlisle on a slip screen and he picked up 31 yards. We ended up throwing a pick at Temple's goal line, but had we not gotten out of Temple's territory and it led to an early punt or worse, the Owls would have had enough time to make a drive before halftime...and with very good field position.

Regardless, our point was he did more than nothing, he contributed to this team. Koon ragged on Carlisle's yards and TD numbers, but short receptions are important too. There would have been multiple times last season where a drop from Carlisle would have cost us a first down and ultimately a game. Those plays certainly were important, so to marginalize Amir's involvement is a slight.

If Carlisle was decent ill stop watching football. He had 1 td last year to Jalin Marshall's 6, and Jalin Marshall wasn't even great. I'm not apologizing for saying he did nothing. I could have had 1 TD as the starting slot out of dumb luck and no one on the defense worrying about me. This really is a non issue that doesn't need to be called out.

TDs are just one bearing of a receiver's usefulness. Not every player is asked to be a TD machine. In 2005 the Steeler's Willie Parker was their starting back and had only 5 TDs on the ground despite 310+ carries. That's just 1 TD for every 62 carries, which is a ridiculously low number. The Bus had 12 TDs on just 150 carries. Was the Bus clearly the better back? My heart wants to say yes, but my head knows that Willie Parker was a work horse until Pittsburgh got into the redzone, then Cowher would pound the ball with Bettis.

You need players that fill a role like that. Receptions and yards are important. Amir had more receptions than Torii last year, slightly less yards, and just one less TD. Would you also say Torii was nothing? You probably would. However, if you were to take away that players production, or even switching some of their receptions to drops, you're talking about changing the outcome of important drives and games themselves.
 
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Irish4Life09

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I know this has nothing to do with Fall Camp, so flame me if you want...
ESPN2 showing the 'Trojan War' 30-for-30 right now...
I still get physically ill watching replays of the BushPush game...So unreal....
 

ThePiombino

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Can we name any play or game Carlisle actually made a difference? He played well that BC game but I only know that by checking his game log. He blended in. He was average at best.

No one is saying he was terrible. But, is anyone going to miss his production? We recruit at a high level. He was average at best. That's fine. I just expect improvement from that position this year.

You literally just answered your own question.

7 catches for 97 yards and TD in a game that we won by 3 points...
 
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ScooterIrish

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Koon called Carlisle nothing, and nothing is less than terrible. Amir actually played a big part in that BC game. He led all receivers in receptions at 8, had 101 yards, and without his TD the Eagles win. Will was more or less shut down that game, Chris Brown and Carlisle both had more receptions and yards.

I would also argue that Carlisle had a critical play against Temple as well. Late in the 2nd quarter on our last drive, in the shadow of our own endzone, Kizer got blitzed and was able to dump the ball to Carlisle on a slip screen and he picked up 31 yards. We ended up throwing a pick at Temple's goal line, but had we not gotten out of Temple's territory and it led to an early punt or worse, the Owls would have had enough time to make a drive before halftime...and with very good field position.

Regardless, our point was he did more than nothing, he contributed to this team. Koon ragged on Carlisle's yards and TD numbers, but short receptions are important too. There would have been multiple times last season where a drop from Carlisle would have cost us a first down and ultimately a game. Those plays certainly were important, so to marginalize Amir's involvement is a slight.



TDs are just one bearing of a receiver's usefulness. Not every player is asked to be a TD machine. In 2005 the Steeler's Willie Parker was their starting back and had only 5 TDs on the ground despite 310+ carries. That's just 1 TD for every 62 carries, which is a ridiculously low number. The Bus had 12 TDs on just 150 carries. Was the Bus clearly the better back? My heart wants to say yes, but my head knows that Willie Parker was a work horse until Pittsburgh got into the redzone, then Cowher would pound the ball with Bettis.

You need players that fill a role like that. Receptions and yards are important. Amir had more receptions than Torii last year, slightly less yards, and just one less TD. Would you also say Torii was nothing? You probably would. However, if you were to take away that players production, or even switching some of their receptions to drops, you're talking about changing the outcome of important drives and games themselves.

This is a great post and really highlights the hot-taeks coming from koon.
 

woolybug25

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Koon is a miniature Trump. Never apologizes and never thinks he's wrong. In fact, this is just another example of how little he knows about football and BK's offense. Carlisle was statistically average for slot receivers in college. For BK's offense, he was absolutely adequate, as BK has never had a stat monster at the position. That's because his offense doesn't run that way. In his offense, if a slot starts performing well, he gets them touches in a different role. Like on the outside with Gilyard or out of the backfield like Riddick. That's just a fact.

No one has said that Carlisle was good, but rather we dispute Koon's disrespectful comment of him being "nothing". That's just statistically and historically inaccurate.
 

ThePiombino

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Koon is a miniature Trump. Never apologizes and never thinks he's wrong. In fact, this is just another example of how little he knows about football and BK's offense. Carlisle was statistically average for slot receivers in college. For BK's offense, he was absolutely adequate, as BK has never had a stat monster at the position. That's because his offense doesn't run that way. In his offense, if a slot starts performing well, he gets them touches in a different role. Like on the outside with Gilyard or out of the backfield like Riddick. That's just a fact.

No one has said that Carlisle was good, but rather we dispute Koon's disrespectful comment of him being "nothing". That's just statistically and historically inaccurate.

Perfectly put.
 

arrowryan

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Last day of camp and there is media access so prepare yourself for a tweet storm later this afternoon.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Rise & Grind.<br><br>It's our final day of training camp. <a href="https://t.co/Rt1yA0sYM0">pic.twitter.com/Rt1yA0sYM0</a></p>— Notre Dame Football (@NDFootball) <a href="https://twitter.com/NDFootball/status/766608103622062080">August 19, 2016</a></blockquote> <script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
 

zelezo vlk

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Last day of camp and there is media access so prepare yourself for a tweet storm later this afternoon.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Rise & Grind.<br><br>It's our final day of training camp. <a href="https://t.co/Rt1yA0sYM0">pic.twitter.com/Rt1yA0sYM0</a></p>— Notre Dame Football (@NDFootball) <a href="https://twitter.com/NDFootball/status/766608103622062080">August 19, 2016</a></blockquote> <script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
I thought the media access had been canceled.

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dublinirish

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Last day of camp and there is media access so prepare yourself for a tweet storm later this afternoon.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Rise & Grind.<br><br>It's our final day of training camp. <a href="https://t.co/Rt1yA0sYM0">pic.twitter.com/Rt1yA0sYM0</a></p>— Notre Dame Football (@NDFootball) <a href="https://twitter.com/NDFootball/status/766608103622062080">August 19, 2016</a></blockquote> <script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Also the day all the players (bar OL) swap jersey numbers for practice and it makes old bastards like Mike Frank and Lou Soumogi go nuts :)
 

arrowryan

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I thought the media access had been canceled.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Tapatalk

Really? I hope that isn't true.

Also the day all the players (bar OL) swap jersey numbers for practice and it makes old bastards like Mike Frank and Lou Soumogi go nuts :)

Lmao I forgot about that?

"Wait, why the fuck is Zaire playing safety!?"- Mike Frank as he talks about how the sky is falling for ND football.
 

IrishBroker

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If Carlisle was decent ill stop watching football. He had 1 td last year to Jalin Marshall's 6, and Jalin Marshall wasn't even great. I'm not apologizing for saying he did nothing. I could have had 1 TD as the starting slot out of dumb luck and no one on the defense worrying about me. This really is a non issue that doesn't need to be called out.

I agree with you. He was extremely underwhelming. Non-factor.

It's easy to rah-rah your own guys...but not one team or fanbase was worried about Carlisle.
 

Rocket89

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A similar discussion was going on a few weeks back about Tillery, too. That he wasn't productive given he'd started so many games but yet Tillery didn't really play that many snaps. Sometimes way too much emphasis is placed on "starter."

Carlisle
412 snaps

Hunter
329 snaps

Carlisle was a co-starter with Hunter with roughly the same production with about a game and a half more snaps. He was a decent receiver.

For perspective, Brown played 560 snaps and Fuller 822(!!) snaps in 2015.
 

Irish#1

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If Carlisle was decent ill stop watching football. He had 1 td last year to Jalin Marshall's 6, and Jalin Marshall wasn't even great. I'm not apologizing for saying he did nothing. I could have had 1 TD as the starting slot out of dumb luck and no one on the defense worrying about me. This really is a non issue that doesn't need to be called out.

There are only so many snaps in a game. When you have guys like Fuller and Brown, then distribute snaps to the running game. There's not a lot left to go around. I think he had a decent season. Dynamic? No, but he contributed. Besides slot receivers aren't typically the type of receiver that's going to put up a lot of TD's or contribute a lot of yards. Perhaps your expectations of the slot receiver are a bit high.
 

Rocket89

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Also if you project Hunter's production with Fuller's snaps he will finish 2016 with 69 receptions and 905 yards, FWIW.
 

IrishBroker

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I think one of the reasons I find Carlisle so underwhelming, is he came in as someone I thought was a gamebreaker. I was as excited as one could be getting a highly touted guy from SC. I expected more "big time" plays

My expectations were high to begin with, so part of my disappointment is based on that.


(and yes, I realize he had injury issues)
 

BobbyMac

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Also if you project Hunter's production with Fuller's snaps he will finish 2016 with 69 receptions and 905 yards, FWIW.

Not comparable nor projectable. He won't be the 3rd option next year on the field with the #1 WR threat in the country.

As far as Carlisle being good or bad or whatever the label posters are trying to hang on him... I looked up one team, Ohio St and their #3 receiver was superstar Braxton Miller who had 26 rec... 341 yds... 3 TD's on a team without a Will Fuller demanding the vast majority of the desired targets.

Carlisle did his job. You could have plugged in a lot of wishlist slots from other programs into ND's lineup last year and got similar results.
 

Blaise

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Carlisle was decent... Am I excited to see Sanders or Holmes in that role.. Yes, but I appreciate some of the clutch grabs and clutch plays he made for the Irish last year...

Are we forgetting 3rd and 16 when we are trying to tie the game against Clemson, Amir caught a 20 yard pass to keep the drive going?
 

Irish Insanity

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Koon is a miniature Trump. Never apologizes and never thinks he's wrong. In fact, this is just another example of how little he knows about football and BK's offense. Carlisle was statistically average for slot receivers in college. For BK's offense, he was absolutely adequate, as BK has never had a stat monster at the position. That's because his offense doesn't run that way. In his offense, if a slot starts performing well, he gets them touches in a different role. Like on the outside with Gilyard or out of the backfield like Riddick. That's just a fact.

No one has said that Carlisle was good, but rather we dispute Koon's disrespectful comment of him being "nothing". That's just statistically and historically inaccurate.
Post this shit in the President thread. You'll change the vote of damn near every Trump supporter.
 

IrishBroker

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Not comparable nor projectable. He won't be the 3rd option next year on the field with the #1 WR threat in the country.

As far as Carlisle being good or bad or whatever the label posters are trying to hang on him... I looked up one team, Ohio St and their #3 receiver was superstar Braxton Miller who had 26 rec... 341 yds... 3 TD's on a team without a Will Fuller demanding the vast majority of the desired targets.

Carlisle did his job. You could have plugged in a lot of wishlist slots from other programs into ND's lineup last year and got similar results.

Braxton Miller was learning an entirely new position. I don't think that's a fair comparison, either.

And I bet you'd find that teams had to plan for Miller and his playmaking...Carlise just didn't demand that respect.

There is a reason one went in the 3rd round, and one wasn't drafted.
 

Veritate Duce Progredi

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Does anyone else think it's problematic that Kelly & Co canceled a media viewing session? Is there something being hidden? Kelly rarely does something like this from what I recall.
 

woolybug25

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Does anyone else think it's problematic that Kelly & Co canceled a media viewing session? Is there something being hidden? Kelly rarely does something like this from what I recall.

Two QB Formation

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