2014 Depth Chart Predictions

[pkt77242]

I get that you don't want to bring up an injury to avoid the player being targeted in that area during the season but why not mention it at the end of the season?

^This. We almost always learn about a few injuries after the season ends that we didn't know about during the season.

 

[PANDFAN]

Thanks for asking. I get everything. All of it.

I get that they think Farley had a shoulder injury (not sure how they picked the shoulder, but I'm guessing cause that's what you lead with when tackling) because of his poor play.

I also get that Farley never missed a game. I get that Farley never reportedly missed practice.

I get that BK will protect some player's form being injured, but I also get that he has spoken publicly in-season about injured players that continued to play and never missing time.

I get that Sampson is very much in the know. I also get that Sampson doesn't know there was an injury to Farley based on his comments, but that he, like you, bets there was one.

I get that BK was asked specifically about Farley's poor play after the year, and he never mentioned 'well he was playing injured' to protect the Farley from the scrutiny. Let me repeat, this is after the season.

I get it all. I get that he might have been injured, but the only basis for that is his poor play and Sampson betting (albeit not knowing) that he was in fact injured.

All I'm asking is that we quit posting it as fact on here, and instead use less difinitive comments when mentioning the 2013 mystery injury, Farley version. Because that's how rumors grow into facts.

So let me turn your question on you. What don't you get?

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[irishfan]

Martin?

Wow, I suck.

Martin is probably behind Golson as my #2.

 

[Booslum31]

"We think that he can be a very good player, especially a tackler from an outside‑in position," Kelly said. "He's been playing inside‑out, right — he's been running the alley inside‑out. We think he can be a very good force player from an outside in position, and he's really a good athlete. He can run, and he's got very good ball skills."

Farley had a handful of high-profile missed tackles last fall playing inside-out at safety, and the move to cornerback was made to give him a better angle to make tackles. It's an admission of Farley's struggles last year but a nod to the talent he still possesses
Notre Dame aims to put Matthias Farley in a better position | CSN Chicago

I think the reasoning others talk about suspecting an injury is because he had quite the drastic change in play...it appears from what BK has said it is the angle of his pursuit he was put in and not the potential injury that may or may not have happened...


Kelly could have easily mentioned him having a banged up shoulder; which this article is from Feb heading into this spring camp...he didn't require any surgery.... Devin Butler had a shoulder injury which didn't keep him out of any playing time but was noted as having surgery in the off season...

I've had trouble following this "inside-out versus outside-in" description. I played both corner and safety. I separated both shoulders over the course of four years...thus favoring one side or the other. My take is that you are either a good tackler who chooses good angles...or you are not. At CB or Nickel there will certainly be less "inside-out" situations but there will still be times when the ball carrier tries to get to the outside. Just tackle the guy with the damn ball.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

So is this our new thing? If someone has a bad year, we create an injury for them with zero evidence or mention of it?

We're not "creating" an injury for Farley "with zero evidence". Several knowledgeable observers, including Sampson (who's probably forgotten more about ND football than either of us knows), watched the games closely and opined that Farley was likely playing through a shoulder injury. There are tell-tale signs for it if one knows what to look for; tackling well with such an injury is not easy.

He had a great front 7 in 2012 to help the DBS as a whole. And let's not pretend like he was a show stopper. He didn't stand out as a terrible tackler, but that's about it. It's not like he was flying around, wrecking people.

Your defense is only as good as the weakest link, and 2012's unit was historically good. If Farley is truly just a poor DB, 2012's amazing defensive feats would not have been possible. He would have been targeted repeatedly by opposing OCs.

He very well could have had an injury, but can we at least stop staying it as fact on here? Because we don't know if it is.

Has anyone here stated it as irrefutable fact? There's one group who think it's a plausible explanation for Farley's struggles last year, and another who think it's just irrational homerism.

To be fair, injury or not, his performance cannot be looked at in isolation. Perhaps Zeke's play made it so Farley only had to worry about one thing. Maybe the DL was that much better that he didn't have to defend as long. Maybe his tackling was so poor since he was out of position so much due to the previous points.

I am not saying he was or wasn't hurt. Drawing conclusions from his play alone isn't ironclad.

Never implied it was. As I've explained before, I think Zeke handled all the QBing duties in 2012, which freed Farley to just make plays. And he was solid that year. That's the piece of evidence that the anti-Farley crowd don't care to account for. In 2013, Farley was the most experienced S, so they asked him to take over the QBing duties from Zeke. He apparently wasn't ready to do that (just like the rest of our Safeties, apparently), so he struggled; and those struggles may have been compounded by a shoulder injury.

In my mind, 2012 proves that Farley is capable of playing at a high level. There's no way we could have made such a title run if Farley was the liability many here think him to be.

 

[Ironman8]

Sounds good. Do we make this official in anyway to get it "on the books"? I'll be happy if I'm wrong because it means Farley is capable of giving us something more.

If I win, my signature will say:

This post brought to you by the guy who beat the guy who was the champion of all 2012 fantasy things.

Gotta update my signature to account for all my 2013 titles....haha

 

[BleedBlueGold]

...So let me turn your question on you. What don't you get?

I get that you get what the others are saying. I also get that you're refusing to even consider an injury based on what other, more knowledgeable posters have stated (and not as fact, but as opinions and possibilities). Like I said before, it's possible he was never hurt. And I accept that. But it's also possible he was, and it seems you refuse to accept that.

 

[koonja]

I get that you get what the others are saying. I also get that you're refusing to even consider an injury based on what other, more knowledgeable posters have stated (and not as fact, but as opinions and possibilities). Like I said before, it's possible he was never hurt. And I accept that. But it's also possible he was, and it seems you refuse to accept that.

Well apparently you don't get it. Directly above you, from yours truly: "I get that he might have been injured".

I'm yet to cross one.

False. See above. All I ask is that we quit confusing it as a fact.

A more likely reason for the poor play would be that in 2012, he was only here for a year and able to ward off the Longo bug. In 2013, too much time had passed and the inevitably Longo bug finally bit him.

 

[Wild Bill]

Never implied it was. As I've explained before, I think Zeke handled all the QBing duties in 2012, which freed Farley to just make plays. And he was solid that year. That's the piece of evidence that the anti-Farley crowd don't care to account for. In 2013, Farley was the most experienced S, so they asked him to take over the QBing duties from Zeke. He apparently wasn't ready to do that (just like the rest of our Safeties, apparently), so he struggled; and those struggles may have been compounded by a shoulder injury.

In my mind, 2012 proves that Farley is capable of playing at a high level. There's no way we could have made such a title run if Farley was the liability many here think him to be.

Or the coaching staff had enough talent down the middle of the defense with Teo, Zeke, Nix, KLM and Tuitt to cover his ass.

He does not have the instincts to play safety at a high level. I've seen enough of him to form an opinion. Has nothing to do with a shoulder - he was healthy enough to play with whatever injury he had and he wasn't asked to take on lead blockers at the point of attack. He takes awful angles and pussy foots 15 yards behind the line of scrimmage b/c he doesn't have the instincts to see the window, he doesn't have the instincts to run through the window, he doesn't have the instincts to get through traffic and he isn't a natural tackler.

I'll gladly come back here and eat crow if I'm wrong.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

He does not have the instincts to play safety at a high level. I've seen enough of him to form an opinion. Has nothing to do with a shoulder - he was healthy enough to play with whatever injury he had and he wasn't asked to take on lead blockers at the point of attack. He takes awful angles and pussy foots 15 yards behind the line of scrimmage b/c he doesn't have the instincts to see the window, he doesn't have the instincts to run through the window, he doesn't have the instincts to get through traffic and he isn't a natural tackler.

Where's the tape from 2012 that shows Farley playing so poorly? I think his poor play last year was a combination of "paralysis by analysis" (due to more schematic responsibility) and a possible shoulder injury. Arguing that "you've seen enough to take his measure" based only on last season's tape alone still doesn't explain 2012.

I don't buy that Farley successfully hid in the back of our secondary for the entire title run. We definitely had some elite players up the middle that made things easier for him, but you can't hide 2013-level incompetence against the type of schedules we play. Oklahoma's WRs would have feasted on him.

 

[Wild Bill]

Where's the tape from 2012 that shows Farley playing so poorly? I think his poor play last year was a combination of "paralysis by analysis" (due to more schematic responsibility) and a possible shoulder injury. Arguing that "you've seen enough to take his measure" based only on last season's tape alone still doesn't explain 2012.

I don't buy that Farley successfully hid in the back of our secondary for the entire title run. We definitely had some elite players up the middle that made things easier for him, but you can't hide 2013-level incompetence against the type of schedules we play. Oklahoma's WRs would have feasted on him.

He was absolutely dreadful against Pitt. Just a few highlights I can recall - They busted a big run in the first quarter (I believe) after Farley took a horse shit angle on the ball carrier. He was absolutely trucked inside the five and the back took it in for the score. They ran a screen to the middle of the field for a big gain - he didn't take on the blocker or the ball carrier.

He was not good in 2012 and was worse in 2013. Pitt was the first game our front seven didn't dominate and he was exposed. Diaco hid him the best he could and Teo rarely left him with an open field tackle to make.

 

[woolybug25]

He was absolutely dreadful against Pitt. Just a few highlights I can recall - They busted a big run in the first quarter (I believe) after Farley took a horse shit angle on the ball carrier. He was absolutely trucked inside the five and the back took it in for the score. They ran a screen to the middle of the field for a big gain - he didn't take on the blocker or the ball carrier.

He was not good in 2012 and was worse in 2013. Pitt was the first game our front seven didn't dominate and he was exposed. Diaco hid him the best he could and Teo rarely left him with an open field tackle to make.

There's a lot of "I believe" and "that I can recall"s in that definitive statement proving he was no good.

The dude had 49 tackles in '12, played a significant amount of the season with a hand injury and even had 9 stops against USC that cemented our title game appearance. Convince yourself that he stunk in '12 if you want, but there isn't much evidence to support your theory.

 

[irishfan]

He was absolutely dreadful against Pitt. Just a few highlights I can recall - They busted a big run in the first quarter (I believe) after Farley took a horse shit angle on the ball carrier. He was absolutely trucked inside the five and the back took it in for the score. They ran a screen to the middle of the field for a big gain - he didn't take on the blocker or the ball carrier.

He was not good in 2012 and was worse in 2013. Pitt was the first game our front seven didn't dominate and he was exposed. Diaco hid him the best he could and Teo rarely left him with an open field tackle to make.

He was good in 2012. He was terrible against Pitt, I remember that one. That was also the game after he broke his hand against OU. He played well every game in 2012 apart from Pitt and Bama.

He was quite bad last year, obviously.

 

[Domina Nostra]

There's a lot of "I believe" and "that I can recall"s in that definitive statement proving he was no good.

The dude had 49 tackles in '12, played a significant amount of the season with a hand injury and even had 9 stops against USC that cemented our title game appearance. Convince yourself that he stunk in '12 if you want, but there isn't much evidence to support your theory.

LOL! I'm all about backing up your point. But this is a football forum and we are talking sports. No need for legal briefs with citations! Recalling a few games seems like a pretty good start, even if it doesn't end the argument!

I don't think he stunk either, for the record. But he is a converted scoccer player, converted WR, playing safety. It would be shocking if he had excellent safety instincts.

 

[Wild Bill]

There's a lot of "I believe" and "that I can recall"s in that definitive statement proving he was no good.

The dude had 49 tackles in '12, played a significant amount of the season with a hand injury and even had 9 stops against USC that cemented our title game appearance. Convince yourself that he stunk in '12 if you want, but there isn't much evidence to support your theory.

There was one "I believe" and it had nothing to do with his play. He took a shit angle. I just can't remember the quarter, I believe it was the first.

He played poorly the entire game. Those are the three plays I recall.

I'm not trying to convince myself of anything. Whiskey asked for some tape from 2012 of him playing poorly. I answered his question.

He was mediocre, at best, in 2012. He was the weakest link of the defense and it wasn't even close.

 

[koonja]

Anyone else have the song 'I believe in miracles!' stuck in their head?

Let's all take a break on the Farley, and go get some kool-aid, eh?

16 days!

 

[woolybug25]

There was one "I believe" and it had nothing to do with his play. He took a shit angle. I just can't remember the quarter, I believe it was the first.

He played poorly the entire game. Those are the three plays I recall.

I'm not trying to convince myself of anything. Whiskey asked for some tape from 2012 of him playing poorly. I answered his question.

He was mediocre, at best, in 2012. He was the weakest link of the defense and it wasn't even close.

So you are using a few plays that you "believe" (hey... you used it again) he may have played bad, in the game where everyone played bad, as evidence of him being the weak link of the defense? Awesome.

If you are going to point out his worst game, are you going to acknowledge that he was downright good against Oklahoma and USC? I think his admirable play in those two games should overshadow one poor performance which he was far from the only player making mistakes.

We can agree to disagree that he was the weak link.

 

[irishog77]

What if Farley did NOT have an injured shoulder last year? As stated repeatedly, a few have speculated he did. If he did not, what accounts for the sharp drop in his play?

 

[EuropeanDomer]

Farley broke his right hand against Oklahoma (saturday), had surgery on the following Tuesday, practiced next day and was playing three days later against Pitt. But he is the most and only hated player on this forum.

 

[Wild Bill]

So you are using a few plays that you "believe" (hey... you used it again) he may have played bad, in the game where everyone played bad, as evidence of him being the weak link of the defense? Awesome.

If you are going to point out his worst game, are you going to acknowledge that he was downright good against Oklahoma and USC? I think his admirable play in those two games should overshadow one poor performance which he was far from the only player making mistakes.

We can agree to disagree that he was the weak link.

I don't believe the plays happened. They happened. The only thing I'm not certain of is the quarter, and it's not relevant to the conversation.

I'm not basing it off of one game or three plays. I'm basing it off the entire season. Maybe you'd take him over Lou, Tuitt, KLM, Spond, Fox, Teo, Prince, Keivarae, Jackson or Zeke. I wouldn't. Just one man's opinion.

I'd be more than happy to tell you I was dead wrong about the kid after he graduates.

 

[koonja]

What if Farley did NOT have an injured shoulder last year? As stated repeatedly, a few have speculated he did. If he did not, what accounts for the sharp drop in his play?

If not the shoulder, I'd guess a tore hamstring.

I don't think everyone agrees that he had a sharp drop, just that he was more exposed in 2013 because he wasn't playing with a dominant defense.

I just hope he plays better, whatever and however that happens, I couldn't care less.

Just win baby!

 

[Ndaccountant]

Farley broke his right hand against Oklahoma (saturday), had surgery on the following Tuesday, practiced next day and was playing three days later against Pitt. But he is the most and only hated player on this forum.

Only because Tommy graduated

 

[PANDFAN]

this was just a simple 2 second search of how bad his tackling was

Let me google that for you

from the asu game:
Matthias Farley makes up for the missed tackle that allowed a touchdown earlier by picking off Taylor Kelly and taking it deep into Sun Devil territory. -1/ +1

Matthias Farley misses the tackle on the left hash, allowing the Sun Devil touchdown. -1

Purdue game
Matthias Farley had an ugly missed tackle on Purdue’s first drive of the second half, letting Purdue retake the lead.


Both Bennett Jackson and Matthias Farley fail to look back as Rob Henry heaved a prayed down the field. While the Purdue receiver adjusted for the ball, neither Jackson nor Farley did, and it ended up putting the Boilermakers in a position to score again.

At safety, Matthias Farley struggled to align the secondary in the correct way and missed several tackles during the game including one that led to a Purdue touchdown (very similar to his failed attempt to tackle Jeremy Gallon last week).

here is straight from BK: “(Farley) was put into a very difficult situation (last season),” Irish head coach Brian Kelly said. “We were trying to get him to replace (former safeties) Zeke Motta and Harrison Smith – two pretty good players, and two physical players.

“He’s not that kind of player. He kind of got that tag of ‘Well he’s not as physical as the others.’ That’s not his best trait.

Though he rolled up 49 tackles in 12 starts, there were some glaring missed tackles that sent the message a change was needed. He lost his starting job to freshman Max Redfield in the Pinstripe Bowl.

Pitt game 3) Devin Street’s 63 yard touchdown for Pitt. With the Irish leading 21-14, even after Tuitt’s weird departure, the Irish were in control. Tom Savage dropped back, and hit Devin Street at the ND 42 right in front of Matthias Farley. Farley completely, entirely, unequivocally missed the tackle and Street romped the remaining 38 yards for the 21-21 tie. Again, a play that never occurred in the unbeaten ’12 regular season.

michigan game : This put the Irish down an early 10-0 on the road. Farley and Shumate were the safeties, and it is too close to call which was more incompetent on the play. This kind of play, at least for the regular season, just did not happen in 2012.


THIS was NOTHING to do with having or not having an injury, just PROOF of the dismal performance in tackling and how much it cost the team...HOWEVER he did have 1 clutch int in the ASU game

 

[NCND]

If anyone is STILL making excuses for Farley after seeing him tap the breaks in the Stanford game, they are drinking the Kool-aid. Period.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

Let me preface this by pointing out that I'm not predicting a resurgence by Farley. Odds are not good that he becomes a productive player for us in the future. I just think there's a reasonable case to be made that he's better than many here think he is.

I don't believe the plays happened. They happened. The only thing I'm not certain of is the quarter, and it's not relevant to the conversation.

The whole team played like hot garbage against Pitt, especially compared to the rest of the season. If not for some late heroics by Golson, we definitely would have lost that game.

this was just a simple 2 second search of how bad his tackling was

All those quotes are from last season, and no one here is disputing that Farley was terrible in 2013. The questions are: (1) how good was he in 2012; and (2) why was he so much worse last year?

My intuition is that: (1) he was solid in 2012; and (2) he regressed last year because he wasn't ready to QB the DBs, plus he may have been nursing a bum shoulder. Irish19 thinks that: (1) he was protected by a much stronger front-7 in 2012; and (2) there was no regression in 2013/ he just got exposed.

 

[IrishLax]

People need to throw out the Pitt game. The injuries were so bad that Carlo freaking Calabrese was lining up at NG.

 

[Veritate Duce Progredi]

Let me preface this by pointing out that I'm not predicting a resurgence by Farley. Odds are not good that he becomes a productive player for us in the future. I just think there's a reasonable case to be made that he's better than many here think he is.



The whole team played like hot garbage against Pitt, especially compared to the rest of the season. If not for some late heroics by Golson, we definitely would have lost that game.



All those quotes are from last season, and no one here is disputing that Farley was terrible in 2013. The questions are: (1) how good was he in 2012; and (2) why was he so much worse last year?

My intuition is that: (1) he was solid in 2012; and (2) he regressed last year because he wasn't ready to QB the DBs, plus he may have been nursing a bum shoulder. Irish19 thinks that: (1) he was protected by a much stronger front-7 in 2012; and (2) there was no regression in 2013/ he just got exposed.

Count me in the group with Irish19, it's not that he had a couple missed tackles or failed reads. He looked completely lost after having started 12-13 games the year prior. There is no reason for him to have been so lost. I don't care if he had "more on his plate", that should be expected for every player, each year they grow in the program. I will be equally disillusioned if Golson looks like the 2012 version of himself. He should have grown and he should have more on his plate, despite missing a year.

If it was really just a matter of having too much in his mind, the coaches could've made it very simple and just asked him to go out and play and they'd either: a. find someone else on the field or b. allow him to make any calls if he saw them but not stress him out to the point of no production and costing us games. Farley didn't single handedly lose games for us but he was a big variable in that equation. As were injuries and QB limitations.

Farley shouldn't be starting or asked back for a 5th year for any team that is competing for the playoffs. I'm glad we have him for his 4th year, I hope he providers good minutes for us but he doesn't belong on the field for ND unless he takes a sizable jump in his game.

I'm hoping this program has grown to the point that we aren't spending scholarships on players that provide good moral support. I like leaders, I like guys who give it there all but Kelly and Co. should be getting that from everyone and it should be instilled in the very fabric of the team and organization.

We shouldn't be required to have 5 yr seniors who "know how to do it right" because the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th year PLAYERS should be carrying that mantle.

I'm finally to the point that I don't want excuses: we're either moving towards greatness, we've peaked or we will begin receding to the previous drudgery of what ND football was 2000-2009.

I believe we are on an upward trend, I don't believe Kelly has peaked and I do believe he knows how to cultivate winning personalities.

All of that said, I hope Farley surprises all of us. I hope he comes out with a vengeance, I hope he locks down when he's in the game, I hope he provides momentum shifting turnovers and I'll eat a huge 55 gallon drum of crow.

I simply don't see it in the cards and that is why I'm so negative at the prospect of Farley getting minutes this year and/or being asked back for a 5th year. Perhaps that's not very charitable of me but I love the young man, not impressed by the player.

 

[PANDFAN]

All those quotes are from last season, and no one here is disputing that Farley was terrible in 2013. The questions are: (1) how good was he in 2012; and (2) why was he so much worse last year?

My intuition is that: (1) he was solid in 2012; and (2) he regressed last year because he wasn't ready to QB the DBs, plus he may have been nursing a bum shoulder. Irish19 thinks that: (1) he was protected by a much stronger front-7 in 2012; and (2) there was no regression in 2013/ he just got exposed.

just pointing out that it was an entire season of missed tackles so IF there was an injury mid season or whatever it didn't all of a sudden change his play......I think the ONLY major change was him having to line people up and it got him reading too much and not reacting...too much on the table for the guy...and he is someone I can def root for because he seems to be nothing but a class act!

 

[irishog77]

Let me preface this by pointing out that I'm not predicting a resurgence by Farley. Odds are not good that he becomes a productive player for us in the future. I just think there's a reasonable case to be made that he's better than many here think he is.

I think this is fair...and accurate. I've never jumped on the Bash Farley band wagon. He was not good in 2013. He was like a Safety version of Dayne Crist-- shitting the bed way too often when the spotlight was on him. But dude was pretty damn solid in 2012. There wasn't anything spectacular about him in '12, but like Danny Spond, he was a vital cog in the run to the Natty. I actually love the idea of him being a back up and ready to fill in when his number is called. How many teams have a back up player that has started, what 22-24 games? And in his first 2 years of used eligibility, to boot.

 

[koonja]

I think this is fair...and accurate. I've never jumped on the Bash Farley band wagon. He was not good in 2013. He was like a Safety version of Dayne Crist-- shitting the bed way too often when the spotlight was on him. But dude was pretty damn solid in 2012. There wasn't anything spectacular about him in '12, but like Danny Spond, he was a vital cog in the run to the Natty. I actually love the idea of him being a back up and ready to fill in when his number is called. How many teams have a back up player that has started, what 22-24 games? And in his first 2 years of used eligibility, to boot.

Christ was a 5-star and very physically gifted. There's really nothing about Farley that's physically impressive, IMO. A better comparison is Tommy Rees. Smart, good teammate, but physically? Serviceable at best.

Farley doesn't shit the bed, he's just not that talented.