'20 NJ OLB Cody Simon (Ohio State Verbal)

[Luckylucci]

He is good, quite good in fact.

But we have those guys in front of him. We’ll have two Sophomore 6’1 Lb’s that run just as well, if not better than he does. We’ll also have 2 Junior LB’s that are significantly bigger and good athletes in their own right. And, that’s not including a group of other competitive HS LB’s.

I too hope he’s in the class but unless we fail all those guys in front of him, nope, not a needle mover.

 

[NDMIA]

He is good, quite good in fact.

But we have those guys in front of him. We’ll have two Sophomore 6’1 Lb’s that run just as well, if not better than he does. We’ll also have 2 Junior LB’s that are significantly bigger and good athletes in their own right. And, that’s not including a group of other competitive HS LB’s.

I too hope he’s in the class but unless we fail all those guys in front of him, nope, not a needle mover.

Maybe not in terms of speed. I just think for a 4-5 year career I’d think he’d have a better career than a bunch of the ND linebackers. Asmar Bilal, Drew White, Jordan Genmark-Heath, Jonathan Jones, Bo Bauer, JD Bertrand, and Jeremiah O-Koramoah. I’ll even say that Jack Kiser will be better and Paul Moala who are faster from what I’ve read but also unproven. I think Lamb, Ekwonu, and big bro Simon could be better. Point is, I think Cody Simon could be in the top half of the linebackers in terms of careers at ND and I think that’s worth a take. It’s a total guess and projection but I like him a lot and don’t want to see him at Ohio State. If the staff is okay carrying 13 scholarship LBers in 2019 then how about carrying 12 in 2020 where you trade Jon Jones (grad transfer out) for Cody Simon. That way in 2022-2023 you won’t have that gap. They’ve redshirted some dudes intelligently but it would still be wise to take a newbie this offseason.

 

[Luckylucci]

And again, that does not sound like a needle mover. He may end up being better than most of our backups?

It’s not whether or not he’s better than some guys on the depth chart, it’s whether or not he can be better than the top 4-5 guys, who all happen to have a lot of eligibility. That probably takes awhile to work through.

Again, I like him too but when you are recruiting well, there will be guys you turn away. And FWIW, the staff feels like they’ve recruited very well at LB.

 

[NDIrish88]

And again, that does not sound like a needle mover. He may end up being better than most of our backups?

It’s not whether or not he’s better than some guys on the depth chart, it’s whether or not he can be better than the top 4-5 guys, who all happen to have a lot of eligibility. That probably takes awhile to work through.

Again, I like him too but when you are recruiting well, there will be guys you turn away. And FWIW, the staff feels like they’ve recruited very well at LB.

Lucky is right. He is a great prospect, but how great remains to be seen. The staff is really playing with numbers right now. Is taking Simon worth not taking a 5th DB? Is it worth taking Dimon over Cullen Coleman or Melton who have position flex? Staff has to answer those questions.

 

[Irish#1]

Maybe not in terms of speed. I just think for a 4-5 year career I’d think he’d have a better career than a bunch of the ND linebackers. Asmar Bilal, Drew White, Jordan Genmark-Heath, Jonathan Jones, Bo Bauer, JD Bertrand, and Jeremiah O-Koramoah. I’ll even say that Jack Kiser will be better and Paul Moala who are faster from what I’ve read but also unproven. I think Lamb, Ekwonu, and big bro Simon could be better. Point is, I think Cody Simon could be in the top half of the linebackers in terms of careers at ND and I think that’s worth a take. It’s a total guess and projection but I like him a lot and don’t want to see him at Ohio State. If the staff is okay carrying 13 scholarship LBers in 2019 then how about carrying 12 in 2020 where you trade Jon Jones (grad transfer out) for Cody Simon. That way in 2022-2023 you won’t have that gap. They’ve redshirted some dudes intelligently but it would still be wise to take a newbie this offseason.

Isn't it nice that Kelly & Co. have finally got the roster and recruiting in sync where we're complaining about not taking some 4 star kids?

 

[IrishFanJMercy]

If ND doesn't take him in this class they will end up regretting it.

 

[NDIrish88]

this is just a hunch, but I think the staff basically said we need to see where we are but as as soon as we can give you the green light we will.He is waiting on ND to give him the green light, but just in case, he is also taking his officials if things do not work out. He is a smart kid from a good family. He probably has a contingency plan.

 

[IrishFanJMercy]

The one reason why I don't understand why he isn't a take right now is yes we have 12 LB's that are supposed to be on the roster but out of those 12 how many have injuries? None have proven anything yet, it's not like we have a bunch of guys who have spots locked up.

 

[Pops Freshenmeyer]

I don't care that it's a crowded depth chart and that the position has changed, skipping any position in a recruiting class is dumb, especially at a position where multiple people play at a time.

This is where I'm at. Imbalances lead you into things like needing to take 4 LBs in a class and when you're taking extras like that you're almost certainly doing a little reaching.

 

[IrishLion]

The one reason why I don't understand why he isn't a take right now is yes we have 12 LB's that are supposed to be on the roster but out of those 12 how many have injuries? None have proven anything yet, it's not like we have a bunch of guys who have spots locked up.

They may not have proven anything yet, but if they haven't been encouraged to take medical schollies by now, then you can't just keep adding guys to the position. There aren't enough scholarships to go around for that.

Sure, you could overload the position and take Simon at this moment, but then another position group on the team suffers... and that would be irresponsible, when you account for the overall health of the roster and the fact that you've got a big class of frosh LB's that need a chance to develop.

And like it or not, they DO have their roster spots locked up, as long as they're doing their work in the classroom and staying healthy. If you meant "spots" as in "starting spots," then no, they don't, but that still doesn't mean you overload at the position when there are plenty of young guys that need a chance to prove themselves.

 

[Luckylucci]

The one reason why I don't understand why he isn't a take right now is yes we have 12 LB's that are supposed to be on the roster but out of those 12 how many have injuries? None have proven anything yet, it's not like we have a bunch of guys who have spots locked up.

Saying guys on the roster are unproven as a reason to add a certain “prospect”, while common, makes very little sense. The prospect is the least “proven” of all.

 

[NDMIA]

They may not have proven anything yet, but if they haven't been encouraged to take medical schollies by now, then you can't just keep adding guys to the position. There aren't enough scholarships to go around for that.

Sure, you could overload the position and take Simon at this moment, but then another position group on the team suffers... and that would be irresponsible, when you account for the overall health of the roster and the fact that you've got a big class of frosh LB's that need a chance to develop.

And like it or not, they DO have their roster spots locked up, as long as they're doing their work in the classroom and staying healthy. If you meant "spots" as in "starting spots," then no, they don't, but that still doesn't mean you overload at the position when there are plenty of young guys that need a chance to prove themselves.

My point is that it’s not overloading the roster to add Simon. There are essentially 11 returning scholly guys at LBer. They’ve carried 12-13 scholarship linebackers the last couple of seasons and so taking Simon to bring that number to 12 isn’t crazy. What I do suspect could happen down the road though is the continued pulling of safeties up to linebacker which ND seems to like to do because of its effectiveness. Also, they may simply like having some versatility with Cullen Coleman in that spot so if Derrik Allen were to move from S to LBer then Coleman could stay at RB or Botelho maybe plays LBer instead of Drop. There’s a lot of avenues to go down so I do acknowledge that it’s very complicated but I hope Simon ends up as part of the equation.

 

[BobbyMac]

I'll add this:

No one really cares if Atteberry gets the green light (assuming Carmody commits) because ND has a depth chart full of Atteberry's and 2021 is loaded with RKG's that ND is sitting in the driver's seat for.

Now go look at the '21 LB board. Zero traction and zero targets that stick out as obvious fits at this time. Zero way I'd pass on Cody if he wants in, cuz ther's no Cody Simon's in '21.

 

[Luckylucci]

I'll add this:

No one really cares if Atteberry gets the green light (assuming Carmody commits) because ND has a depth chart full of Atteberry's and 2021 is loaded with RKG's that ND is sitting in the driver's seat for.

Now go look at the '21 LB board. Zero traction and zero targets that stick out as obvious fits at this time. Zero way I'd pass on Cody if he wants in, cuz ther's no Cody Simon's in '21.

Well, Cody Simon wasn’t the guy every wanted this time last year either. So not sure how much of this goes into their thinking.

 

[BobbyMac]

We knew he was an ND RKG target last April when this profile was built. Hope they did too but they've been known to be a bit slow at times.

And if we give them credit for looking ahead to next year's OL class then we should expect they're being proactive at a position that has a lot less obvious talent to safeguard an unbalanced roster down the line.

 

[rtrn2glory]

so can someone clear this up. is he not a take right now from our staff?

 

[NDMIA]

We knew he was an ND RKG target last April when this profile was built. Hope they did too but they've been known to be a bit slow at times.

And if we give them credit for looking ahead to next year's OL class then we should expect they're being proactive at a position that has a lot less obvious talent to safeguard an unbalanced roster down the line.

2020 Roster (12 Scholarships)
RS SR Jonathan Jones
SR Jordan Genmark-Heath
RS JR Jeremiah Owusu-Koramoah
RS JR Drew White
JR Shayne Simon
JR Bo Bauer
JR Paul Moala
RS SO Jack Lamb
SO Osita Ekwonu
SO Marist Liufau
RS FR Jack Kiser
RS FR JD Bertrand

2021 Roster (10 Scholarships)
RS SR Jeremiah Owusu-Koramoah
RS SR Drew White
SR Shayne Simon
SR Paul Moala
SR Bo Bauer
RS JR Jack Lamb
JR Osita Ekwonu
JR Marist Liufau
RS SO Jack Kiser
RS SO JD Bertrand

Tons of changes will happen between now and the 2021 season, but obviously the staff looks ahead for these things and I think linebacker in 2021 will have a lot of upperclassmen. I don't know how they'll keep 5 seniors on the roster by the time the 2021 season rolls around. I hope ND takes a LBer this cycle to avoid the possibility of needing a huge a 2021 class of linebackers. It might still need to end up being a big class because ND will be down a couple of guys and could easily lose a few of those upperclassmen to attrition, but I think it would be better to not turn down a 4 star talent when you have the chance.

 

[Luckylucci]

The problem with posting those numbers the way you do is it's misleading. We need to exclude the "Rovers" for the sake of this conversation as Cody Simon isn't a Rover. So, those numbers show that we have a 4 deep at ILB (8 for 2 positions) in 2021. And, that is the issue. We have too many ILB only scholarships tied up long term. So let's say we have some defections, call it 2, then we still have a 3 deep that will be filled in with freshman from the 2021 class. Extremely reasonable.

 

[NDMIA]

The problem with posting those numbers the way you do is it's misleading. We need to exclude the "Rovers" for the sake of this conversation as Cody Simon isn't a Rover. So, those numbers show that we have a 4 deep at ILB (8 for 2 positions) in 2021. And, that is the issue. We have too many ILB only scholarships tied up long term. So let's say we have some defections, call it 2, then we still have a 3 deep that will be filled in with freshman from the 2021 class. Extremely reasonable.

Yea they’ve definitely got a lot of guys and you make great points. I understand Cody Simon isn’t a rover so he’s stuck with Buck or Mike but Rover seems to be the one that’s full in 2021.

ILB
RS SR Drew White
SR Shayne Simon
SR Bo Bauer
RS JR Jack Lamb
JR Osita Ekwonu
RS SO JD Bertrand

Rover
RS SR Jeremiah Owusu-Koramoah
SR Paul Moala
JR Marist Liufau
RS SO Jack Kiser

Now Jack Kiser I think could end up at Buck or Mike but I’ve seen articles mentioning before his surgery that he was in line to workout at Rover for spring practice. Idk where you get 8 ILB from cause there’s 6 in 2021 and 3 of them are in their last year of eligibility assuming Simon doesn’t redshirt. Also the 2020 roster has 8 ILB if that’s what you meant but I think Jonathan Jones is as good as gone unless something crazy happens and he’s needed as a starter in 2020 (if he’s a backup I’d replace his spot with Cody Simon). Whatever the details are of the roster management, I’m just hopeful ND ends up with Cody Simon at Notre Dame and not a JR and SR Cody Simon playing against Notre Dame on Ohio State’s football team (2022 & 2023).

 

[Irish#1]

We knew he was an ND RKG target last April when this profile was built. Hope they did too but they've been known to be a bit slow at times.

And if we give them credit for looking ahead to next year's OL class then we should expect they're being proactive at a position that has a lot less obvious talent to safeguard an unbalanced roster down the line.

I get everyone's points, but we really don't know what the staff has planned. We don't know that they aren't being proactive. We're basing opinions on what the numbers currently look like. NDMIA may have answered his own question. The staff may see one or two kids eventually moving from S to R or LB after some additional physical development.

 

[Luckylucci]

Kiser and Liufau were recruited as eventual ILB's. It's the natural evolution of players in the scheme. Something Lea has talked about a lot. The scheme is going to naturally produce more ILB's over time.

 

[dad4aa]

This thread is beginning to read like the political thread. Facts and numbers get skewed...just enough...to emphasize the position where the poster is taking a stand. I don't care about the numbers as much as I do about passing on a position that usually has multiple players playing each year. Isn't that why we are having to take so many DBs this year? I cannot remember the last time we had an issue with being over 85 scholarships in September. I would like to see us recruit at least 1 LB this cycle. I hate having a goose egg at any position.

 

[IrishLion]

This thread is beginning to read like the political thread. Facts and numbers get skewed...just enough...to emphasize the position where the poster is taking a stand. I don't care about the numbers as much as I do about passing on a position that usually has multiple players playing each year. Isn't that why we are having to take so many DBs this year? I cannot remember the last time we had an issue with being over 85 scholarships in September. I would like to see us recruit at least 1 LB this cycle. I hate having a goose egg at any position.

I agree with you in general. There Is Always Room. TIAR.

That's why Bertrand and Liafau will both end up on scholarship right away, probably, despite both committing with the possibility of greyshirting or whatever for a year.

However... you have to stagger the roster at some point, especially if you're taking corners that grow into safeties, safeties that grow into rovers, and rovers that grow into Bucks and Mikes.

So it might look like there's a chance they take zero LB's this year... but they've got their eyes on several guys with positional flexibility that could ultimately end up at LB down the road if there is abnormal amounts of attrition.

It's a bummer that it leaves a guy like Cody Simon potentially without a spot, but it's a sign that the staff feels good about the large LB haul from last season, and also that they know what they need for a balanced roster. It also reinforces the idea that there is far less need for "traditional" linebackers these days, which means in a class with limited room, the spot is going to a guy that can do more than play two downs.

 

[dad4aa]

I guess my issue is I have seen more position changes out of need and not out of “Best for the player’s strength” if that makes sense. I don’t want to recruit a player and plug him into a position because that’s where we need him even though it is not where he is best suited to play.

 

[IrishLion]

I guess my issue is I have seen more position changes out of need and not out of “Best for the player’s strength” if that makes sense. I don’t want to recruit a player and plug him into a position because that’s where we need him even though it is not where he is best suited to play.

That was a problem with previous regimes, because Diaco and BVG didn't know how to fill out their depth charts. Positions were too thin, so you had Joe Schmidt starting at ILB and Carlo Calabrese playing emergency reps at DT. The current issue we're talking about is the opposite, which is a great problem to have.

Lea knows what he needs in his LB's, so I'm confident that if the staff is passing on a pure LB, it's because they know the ATH they're going after can do the job as more than just a stop-gap.

 

[Me2SouthBend]

Does all this talk mean there is no chance the staff would take Asa Turner if he wanted to transfer in?

 

[Luckylucci]

Well said, Lion.

 

[ab2cmiller]

Does all this talk mean there is no chance the staff would take Asa Turner if he wanted to transfer in?

Maybe that’s the reason we pass on Simon. Can’t wait till Asa shows up on campus.

 

[NDIrish88]

Did Sinclair flip to foggy?

 

[NDMIA]

Did Sinclair flip to foggy?

Yessir. Now Tom Loy and Kevin Sinclair don’t think he’s going to ND right now. I’d guess Ohio State right now or Penn State.