'19 OH OG Zeke Correll (Notre Dame Signee)

Whiskeyjack

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Yeah, you're correct, and the real problem is the "IDK" because I don't know either and I doubt these coaches know. There is no clear solution. Your returning starters are bad, and there is no evidence their backups are better.

A year ago, we had two A+ talents on the left side, a very solid center, and an A- (and that's grading harsh) talent at RG. The only hole was RT, where Hainsey graded out as one of the worst in college football by PFF and Kraemer wasn't much better. So A+/A+/B+/A-/F is going to get the job done the vast majority of the time because you can adjust for that one hole on your line to make it less of an issue.

Fast forward a year and.... well, you have a C- player at LT, a B+ player at LG with potential to be an A level player, a ? at center, a C- player at RG, and a D player at RT. Like what in the actual fuck happened on the OL? Where is the talent? Where are the players being groomed to step up? You look at the depth chart, and there is no obvious talent coming up that is going to be the answer and you almost never want to start a true freshman on the OL regardless of how good they are.

You're basically stuck praying that a healthy Eichenberg develops into a B+ player, that Banks becomes an A at LG, that Ruhland is at least a B at center, that Hainsey or Kraemer can figure out how to be a B at RG, and that some new player like Lugg or Patterson can be a B+ at RT. While that's still a huge step below 2017's line, that would at least be a top 25-50 group that would do wonders for the offense. But that requires a million things to go right. I hate being the guy who criticizes players, but this unit had obvious problems since Week 1 against Michigan and they did not get figured out as the year went along. There is no reason besides blind faith to assume they play markedly better in 2019.

The most obvious explanation would have to be Hiestand's departure, no? I can't think of another reason why our ALY would drop off a cliff in Quinn's first year, especially when we shrugged off the OL draft attrition in 2014 so easily.
 

IrishLion

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I think they need to start over. There is no reason Hainsey should be at tackle given what he has shown the last two years. Move him inside and find a spot. Banks played well enough to earn a spot at guard. Every other position should be 100% up for grabs. They need to find a way to upgrade the two tackle positions.

That’s kind of my point though... there are no clear answers for upgrades, so lean on continuity until one of the young guys clearly unseats an incumbent.

My money would be on Kraemer gettin pushed out before Hainsey, but maybe 6’7” Lugg is ready after another offseason of work?
 

Luckylucci

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Yeah, you're correct, and the real problem is the "IDK" because I don't know either and I doubt these coaches know. There is no clear solution. Your returning starters are bad, and there is no evidence their backups are better.

A year ago, we had two A+ talents on the left side, a very solid center, and an A- (and that's grading harsh) talent at RG. The only hole was RT, where Hainsey graded out as one of the worst in college football by PFF and Kraemer wasn't much better. So A+/A+/B+/A-/F is going to get the job done the vast majority of the time because you can adjust for that one hole on your line to make it less of an issue.

Fast forward a year and.... well, you have a C- player at LT, a B+ player at LG with potential to be an A level player, a ? at center, a C- player at RG, and a D player at RT. Like what in the actual fuck happened on the OL? Where is the talent? Where are the players being groomed to step up? You look at the depth chart, and there is no obvious talent coming up that is going to be the answer and you almost never want to start a true freshman on the OL regardless of how good they are.

You're basically stuck praying that a healthy Eichenberg develops into a B+ player, that Banks becomes an A at LG, that Ruhland is at least a B at center, that Hainsey or Kraemer can figure out how to be a B at RG, and that some new player like Lugg or Patterson can be a B+ at RT. While that's still a huge step below 2017's line, that would at least be a top 25-50 group that would do wonders for the offense. But that requires a million things to go right. I hate being the guy who criticizes players, but this unit had obvious problems since Week 1 against Michigan and they did not get figured out as the year went along. There is no reason besides blind faith to assume they play markedly better in 2019.

It may very well hold true that they don't improve and we have no answers. Maybe all of these 4 star OL like Eigh, Kraemer, Lugg, Banks, etc. never pan out. But to say this, is a little disingenuous when it happens all the time in college football. We have a roster littered with examples.

Players that previously struggled or didn't play to then get markedly better. Jalen Elliot, Tevon Coney, Julian Okwara, Khalid Kareem, Miles Boykin, Alize Mack, Dexter Williams. Those are all players that saw a fairly significant increase in production post their sophomore seasons, some even later.

Also, McGlinchey became a 1st rd. pick as a 5th year Senior. He was no where near that good in is 2nd and 3rd years in the program, which is where a lot of these guys are at. It's not like a lot of the success on the OL had been from guys that were 2-3 years in the program. In fact, Nelson is the only OL that left prior to his 4th year in the program. Stanley, 4 years. Both Martins were 4 years. McGlinchey was 5. Nelson was 3.
 

BobbyMac

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Yea I agree, nobody screams Ronnie Stanley or Zach Martin. I think this ‘19 OL class is pretty freaking talented but that doesn’t help next year. It’s going to be a patch job and we are going to have to scheme to protect them somehow.

If I go back into NDisme's archives will I see comments like... "Stanley looks like the next Ryan Harris" or "Martin screams Aaron Taylor to me" (?) I mean, did you see these R&R's below and get more excited than the 4 coming in for '19?

<iframe class="twofourseven-embed" style="max-width: 100%" frameBorder="0" width="600" height="200" src="https://247sports.com/PlayerSport/Zack-Martin-at-Bishop-Chatard-5290/Embed/"></iframe><script async src="https://assets.247sports.com/Scripts/SkyNet/Shared/embed.js" charSet="utf-8"></script>
<iframe class="twofourseven-embed" style="max-width: 100%" frameBorder="0" width="600" height="200" src="https://247sports.com/PlayerSport/Ronnie-Stanley-at-Bishop-Gorman-6203/Embed/"></iframe><script async src="https://assets.247sports.com/Scripts/SkyNet/Shared/embed.js" charSet="utf-8"></script>
 

BobbyMac

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Another thing to keep in mind as a reason not to give up on Quinn, he has a track record in developing NFL talent... and not just practice team guys, we're talking Pro Bowl and HOFers too. And he's done it with converted TE's, FB's, QB/WR's that didn't show up as 4* at blue blood programs, they were all at G5's and a few were walk ons. I mention this elsewhere and folks are like... huh/duh/whaaaa?

*And not that it matters but coached the most dominant player in the NFL every game of his college career.
 
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NDisme

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I was saying no one on the current roster screams first or 2nd round pick. The 4 coming in I think are pretty darn good.
 

Luckylucci

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I was saying no one on the current roster screams first or 2nd round pick. The 4 coming in I think are pretty darn good.

And to my point above, McGlinchey wasn't screaming 1st rd pick after his 3rd year in the program. He played at RT his RS Sophomore season and a lot of people were concerned about how he'd handle to the move to LT with Stanley gone. Even as a RS Junior, he wasn't being graded out as a 1st rd pick. It took him 5 years in the program to get that grade. All of the OL listed above have been in the program max 3 years. There could still be a lot of development in front of them. Or, they could be maxed out, who knows, but it's not out of the realm of possibility that guys like Eich, Hainsey, Banks, Lugg, etc. get considerably better in the next 9-12 months.
 

irishff1014

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Another thing to keep in mind as a reason not to give up on Quinn, he has a track record in developing NFL talent... and not just practice team guys, we're talking Pro Bowl and HOFers too. And he's done it with converted TE's, FB's, QB/WR's that didn't show up as 4* at blue blood programs, they were all at G5's and a few were walk ons. I mention this elsewhere and folks are like... huh/duh/whaaaa?

*And not that it matters but coached the most dominant player in the NFL every game of his college career.

He better step up to the plate next year. Every coach better. You better prepare your 2nd stringers to play Incase of an injury. If if they aren’t ready it’s the coaches fault for not preparing them. And if a JR can’t do it use the sophomore.
 

BobbyMac

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He better step up to the plate next year. Every coach better. You better prepare your 2nd stringers to play Incase of an injury. If if they aren’t ready it’s the coaches fault for not preparing them. And if a JR can’t do it use the sophomore.

This is a great idea. I'll send BK and email to blow teams out and put in the 2nd & 3rd stringers. Seems to work for everyone else.
 

dad4aa

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This is a great idea. I'll send BK and email to blow teams out and put in the 2nd & 3rd stringers. Seems to work for everyone else.

Even though you weren't serious with your comment, there is some truth to that. If we would quit taking our foot off the gas and go for the jugular, our 2nd and 3rd string could get more playing time. Maybe if Vaughn was able to get in more than a handful of plays this year, he might have done a little better Saturday.
 

EddytoNow

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The most obvious explanation would have to be Hiestand's departure, no? I can't think of another reason why our ALY would drop off a cliff in Quinn's first year, especially when we shrugged off the OL draft attrition in 2014 so easily.

Who do you think was coaching the current OL guys that you are saying were unprepared to take over when their time came to start? It wasn't Quinn until last Spring. Before that the offensive linemen were under Hiestand's direction.

Quinn had them for something like 3 weeks in the spring and another three weeks or so in late summer before the first game against Michigan. Their first year, or two, or three were under the direction of Hiestand. If they were not ready to step up this year when they were called upon, a lot of the blame falls on Hiestand. Give Quinn another two or three years before he takes the blame for the under-development of the offensive line.

We should also not over-look the fact that some of our offensive linemen may have been over-rated. If that is the case, Hiestand recruited them, not Quinn.
 

BobbyMac

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Even though you weren't serious with your comment, there is some truth to that. If we would quit taking our foot off the gas and go for the jugular, our 2nd and 3rd string could get more playing time. Maybe if Vaughn was able to get in more than a handful of plays this year, he might have done a little better Saturday.

Besides emailing BK, I was serious as a heart attack. DESTROY teams early, Put foot on throat and then dump the depth chart on their corpses.
 

ulukinatme

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He better step up to the plate next year. Every coach better. You better prepare your 2nd stringers to play Incase of an injury. If if they aren’t ready it’s the coaches fault for not preparing them. And if a JR can’t do it use the sophomore.

The only coach that certainly had his 2nd stringers ready to play is Tommy Rees.
 

Sherm Sticky

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After the final 247, Zeke is NDs highest rated OL in the composite rankings
From all reports he did real well at the UofA game practices. Per 247 and ESPN.

Kid will be a multi year starter at Center for ND. Who knows maybe even starting Center in 2019?
 

FightingIrishLover7

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Is he for sure (most likely) locked-in as a center? I'd love for another Quenton type of angry ass guard.
 

KizerWilhelm

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Is he for sure (most likely) locked-in as a center? I'd love for another Quenton type of angry ass guard.

In the short-term it sounds like a forgone conclusion. Long-term, he's a for sure three-year-starter if he stays at center, so I don't know why they'd play around with it.
 

FightingIrishLover7

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In the short-term it sounds like a forgone conclusion. Long-term, he's a for sure three-year-starter if he stays at center, so I don't know why they'd play around with it.

My thinking is (long term), if Luke can turn into a solid center, and Zeke plays guard, it could be help create the "best possible" starting 5.
 

Luckylucci

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My thinking is (long term), if Luke can turn into a solid center, and Zeke plays guard, it could be help create the "best possible" starting 5.

I highly doubt it's set in stone. At present, he looks like he could compete for immediate PT. Fastest way to the field is at OC where as of today, is the only position up for grabs. However, if Luke, Hainsey, or any other player provide a better solution at OC. I doubt they keep Correll behind said player if he can help at OG.
 
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