'18 PA QB Phil Jurkovec (Wherever I May Roam Chud)

ulukinatme

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Jaylon Smith literally played 2 positions simultaneously to compensate for Joe Schmidt's utter lack of athleticism. Starting him over Nyles Morgan at any point in time for any reason was CRIMINAL

I think you missed Circa's point. Jaylon was an absolute beast on the field, but his one glaring weakness was he wasn't a very vocal leader. Granted, he didn't have a super teacher in VanGorder, but the entire staff wanted Jaylon to step up and be a more vocal leader...to be that QB of the defense and it never really happened. Not everyone is perfect. Jaylon was a leading tackler, but he was never the leader that defense needed. If he could have been that leader, maybe Joe could have stayed on the bench and Nyles could have been on the field sooner.
 
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koonja

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People can play the mindless "coach started him therefore there's no doubt player was better". That thought has been proven wrong multiple times outside of ND.

Within ND, no one will ever convince me that Joe Schmidt should have played every snap over Nyles Morgan his senior year... that K Met didn't deserve Alize Mack's snaps when K Met was healthy... Or that Dexter Williams shouldn't have gotten ~12 carries a game as a Junior.... did you know he would have set the NCAA record for YPC, but he was like 2 carries short of qualifying?

Jokes.
 

InKellyWeTrust

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People can play the mindless "coach started him therefore there's no doubt player was better". That thought has been proven wrong multiple times outside of ND.

Within ND, no one will ever convince me that Joe Schmidt should have played every snap over Nyles Morgan his senior year... that K Met didn't deserve Alize Mack's snaps when K Met was healthy... Or that Dexter Williams shouldn't have gotten ~12 carries a game as a Junior.... did you know he would have set the NCAA record for YPC, but he was like 2 carries short of qualifying?

Jokes.

I heard Clemson fans have been pretty happy these days. You should check em out, they'd love to have you on board. But honestly, you are beating a dead horse.
 
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koonja

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I heard Clemson fans have been pretty happy these days. You should check em out, they'd love to have you on board. But honestly, you are beating a dead horse.

I'm happy with where ND is at overall. Does that mean "be happy with everything, question nothing, remember overall everything is "good""?

I'm not that simpleminded.
 

InKellyWeTrust

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I'm happy with where ND is at overall. Does that mean "be happy with everything, question nothing, remember overall everything is "good""?

I'm not that simpleminded.

Me either, but you are bringing up examples of players from years ago which have little to do with Phil transferring out. Connecting all the dots it seems like the staff had a better option in Book. Phil seemingly did not want to put the work and time in and he didn't have enough talent to overcome that lack of determination. I don't see how Joe Schmidt is pertinent to this conversation at all.
 

Irish#1

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To develop him. To connect the film room to live game action. Live game action is a motivator because no one wants to be embarrassed in a game.

Hard to develop the guy if he doesn't know the plays or reads the wrong one off his wrist.
 

Sherm Sticky

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Hard to develop the guy if he doesn't know the plays or reads the wrong one off his wrist.



Yes. Isn’t the biggest issue with Phil is he doesn’t put in the effort in the film room and the playbook. Which is why Phil is where he is currently. I’d also believe that is the reason him and Tommy don’t get along. Tommy was/is a gym rat and Phil doesn’t seem to be putting in the effort to become the starting QB at Notre Dame.


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ulukinatme

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People can play the mindless "coach started him therefore there's no doubt player was better". That thought has been proven wrong multiple times outside of ND.

Within ND, no one will ever convince me that Joe Schmidt should have played every snap over Nyles Morgan his senior year... that K Met didn't deserve Alize Mack's snaps when K Met was healthy... Or that Dexter Williams shouldn't have gotten ~12 carries a game as a Junior.... did you know he would have set the NCAA record for YPC, but he was like 2 carries short of qualifying?

Jokes.

While there have been occasions when the coaches have played the wrong player, more often than not they've gotten it right. Just looking at the QB swaps they've tried under Kelly:

2011 Crist got the start over Rees, and from day 1 this was the only one they most certainly got wrong. Rees was the better player in 2011, he took over during the South Florida game and never really looked back. When Rees got injured for part of the USC game they had to put Crist back in and it ended badly. Crist never bounced back from his injury, and he unceremoniously finished his career with Weis in Kansas.

2012 Golson was the guy, but there were some times he struggled. While Tommy did bail us out during a few games, they tried to pull Golson during the Pitt debacle and Tommy struggled even more than Golson. Golson was definitely the guy in 2012, coaches started him over Rees and it was the right move.

2013 Rees was starter again after the Golson suspension. They tried to pull him for Andrew Hendrix and it once again ended badly. On one particular occasion during the USC game Tommy suffered a concussion and the coaches were forced to put Hendrix in to finish the game. I don't think Hendrix got a first down the entire 2nd half, we won that game strictly on the points Rees scored the first half. Rees was the starter, and he was clearly the best QB on the roster that season.

2014 Golson was starter again, but he lost his mojo late in the season. Zaire got the start for the LSU bowl and was voted the MVP, but Golson still saw plenty of action and was shown to be the better passer. Mixed results here, but Golson was certainly the right guy to start the year before he collapsed. That Michigan game was beautiful.

2015 is a bit of a bust, Kelly was forced to start Kizer and change the offense after Zaire breaks his leg, but based on Kizer's immense struggles with the offense in the Blue Gold game they started the right guy at the beginning of the season.

2016 Kizer began the season as the starter with a lot of fans clamoring for Zaire's return, but it turned out Malik was never the same after the injury and the offense no longer had a strong run game which severely hindered his skill set. Coaches made the right call again by starting Kizer.

2017 Much like 2014, Wimbush got the start for most of the season without controversy. Wimbush absolutely destroyed USC and NC State, but something may have broken him after that Miami game. After Wimbush struggled against LSU he got pulled for Book, Book led the comeback. Perhaps Wimbush should have been pulled sooner, but we can't know how ready Book was prior to that LSU game. Had they not pulled Wimbush we lose that LSU game though, and we wouldn't have that sweet final TD by Boykin. Given the way he started the season it's hard to say the coaches made the wrong call, something certainly changed in Wimbush after Miami though.

2018 Wimbush got the start again and may have been the right call for the Michigan game for his ability to push the ball downfield, but after struggling against Ball State and Vanderbilt he got pulled in favor of Book. Book was certainly the more complete QB, the staff made the right call at the right time to go in a different direction from Wimbush. Neither QB was going to beat Clemson though. This could arguably have been another time the coaches got the starter wrong at the beginning of the season, but given Book's performance against Michigan in 2019 I think the coaches starting Wimbush against the Wolverines worked out better and was the right call.

2019 Unfortunately Phil was such a question mark and mostly just saw garbage time, so there's no way of really telling how good or bad he really was. What we do know is Book was exceptional down the back half of the season and he played fairly well against a tough Georgia team too. He certainly struggled against Michigan, but that debacle was a team effort that Joe Montana couldn't save. Michigan game aside, Book showed down the stretch how good he really was and it's unlikely Phil would have outperformed him.

So, more often than not the coaches tend to start the right QB at the right time I think. The one or two times they did pull a long time starter in favor of the backup and it worked out it was pulling Crist for Rees and Wimbush for Book. In both cases a highly touted recruit was replaced by a three star prospect that went on to excel. For those reasons I think you can argue maybe those guys should have started sooner, but perhaps the "five star" mentality got in the way and clouded the coach's judgement.

As far as Nyles Morgan, I think people forget that the coaches DID try and insert him into the defense in place of Joe Schmidt and he was clearly not ready. Our protections were wrong, and Nyles was out of position. He was clearly more athletic, but the defense was better as a whole when Joe was in. Who's to say if it was the coach's (Likely VanGorder) fault for failing to prepare Morgan, or if Morgan was the one struggling with the position. Nyles certainly improved his senior season under Elko, they simplified the defense a bit and let them read and react more. 2016 was a different story once Schmidt was gone, but that defense was awful across the board and led to VanGorder getting ousted.
 
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Crazy Balki

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I don't get the Schmidt Morgan comparison.

I get that Schmidt struggled a lot, but even as a Senior, Morgan wasn't that good and was often hurt, as he was in 2015. Not to mention, this is the same guy who got his captaincy stripped from him in the Citrus Bowl.

I think it's more criminal that Coney didn't play more over Morgan.
 

N_D_Fighting_Irish

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I think you missed Circa's point. Jaylon was an absolute beast on the field, but his one glaring weakness was he wasn't a very vocal leader. Granted, he didn't have a super teacher in VanGorder, but the entire staff wanted Jaylon to step up and be a more vocal leader...to be that QB of the defense and it never really happened. Not everyone is perfect. Jaylon was a leading tackler, but he was never the leader that defense needed. If he could have been that leader, maybe Joe could have stayed on the bench and Nyles could have been on the field sooner.

So Jaylons to be blamed for forcing the staff to play Joe. Not the defense scheme, not the coaching? Really?
 

EddytoNow

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This is where I'm at.





I agree that Phil could have been put in earlier, but from what I've watched over the years most backups don't come in until sometime in the fourth quarter. Having said that, why do you think BK waited so late to put him in? Could it be he was struggling to learn the offense as has been noted?

I just find it hard to believe BK wouldn't play a 4 star QB who is a legitimate deep ball threat (we all know how that opens up the defense) if he was ready to contribute, especially earlier in the season when Book was struggling.

Some have suggested that Phil didn't get gametime opportunities because he wasn't willing to put in the work in the film room and elsewhere. I could agree if it was only Phil that wasn't getting any meaningful reps during the game, but this has been Kelly's pattern with back-up quarterbacks for ten years now.

However, if it was true that Phil wasn't putting in the effort, then Clark should have gotten some meaningful end-of-game reps in the blowout wins, but that didn't happen either. Under Kelly the back-up quarterbacks are ignored at best. Is it any wonder, some of them want to leave for a better opportunity elsewhere?
 

ulukinatme

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So Jaylons to be blamed for forcing the staff to play Joe. Not the defense scheme, not the coaching? Really?

The complexity of the scheme certainly didn't lend itself to easy learning, so in that respect it was on the coaches for putting the players in a difficult position. That doesn't change the fact the coaches wanted Jaylon to step up and be a more vocal leader of the defense and it never really happened. If Jaylon had taken on the role Joe had maybe Nyles could have just played in space and not worried about being the QB of the defense. Again, Jaylon was about as perfect an athletic specimen as you could want on the field, but he was never the brains or voice of that defense.
 

Irish#1

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I'm happy with where ND is at overall. Does that mean "be happy with everything, question nothing, remember overall everything is "good""?

I'm not that simpleminded.

RB position is a mess
Kmet didn't play earlier
PJ should have been the starter
Kelly plays favorites
etc.
etc.

You sure don't post like you are. lol
 
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koonja

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RB position is a mess
Kmet didn't play earlier
PJ should have been the starter
Kelly plays favorites
etc.
etc.

You sure don't post like you are. lol

You fluffers beat the "everything is wonderful" drum over and over. No need for me to follow along with similar posts.

I'm proud of where ND is at. I finally am not the laughing stock of the CFB viewing parties.

But to act like everything is perfect and not to question the current flaws just because "well do you remember the Willingham days" is a silly, complacent perspective that I will never get.

Our RBs are Group of 5 RBs. I have no idea why ppl occasionally ask why Joe Wilkins isn't playing (he's not athletic enough).

I'm still proud of the program but there are places to still go
 
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IrishLion

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You fluffers beat the "everything is wonderful" drum over and over. No need for me to follow along with similar posts.

I'm proud of where ND is at. I finally am not the laughing stock of the CFB viewing parties.

But to act like everything is perfect and not to question the current flaws just because "well do you remember the Willingham days" is a silly, complacent perspective that I will never get.

Our RBs are Group of 5 RBs. I have no idea why ppl occasionally ask why Joe Wilkins isn't playing (he's not athletic enough).

I'm still proud of the program but there are places to still go

I think the problem people have is that you rarely seem to point out the positives, or if you do, you qualify it with "but it's a shame that ____ still isn't good enough."

It's okay to have criticisms!

But when ND puts the beatdown on ISU in a bowl game in a dominant, complete performance, and your first post is "Do you guys still think one of these WR's isn't going to transfer?" because of ball distribution, it signals to people that you fall wayyyyy to the negative side.
 

NDdomer2

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or that because theres room for improvement we should have done more to make our backup qb happy (which according to driskel would have only been playing him over Book and firing Rees).

Theres rooom for/making improvements then theres lets blow this up because its not good enough for me!
 

FightingIrishLover7

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You fluffers beat the "everything is wonderful" drum over and over. No need for me to follow along with similar posts.

I'm proud of where ND is at. I finally am not the laughing stock of the CFB viewing parties.

But to act like everything is perfect and not to question the current flaws just because "well do you remember the Willingham days" is a silly, complacent perspective that I will never get.

Our RBs are Group of 5 RBs. I have no idea why ppl occasionally ask why Joe Wilkins isn't playing (he's not athletic enough).

I'm still proud of the program but there are places to still go

I'm sure his injury has nothing to do with it...lol

OR is this another Kelly conspiracy ?!?
 
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koonja

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I'm sure his injury has nothing to do with it...lol

OR is this another Kelly conspiracy ?!?

Nothing to do with Kelly or the injury.

He's a 3 star turned 3 star. It happens a lot. I honestly thought he was a TE when I saw him catch a pass in the BG game.
 

Circa

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Jaylon Smith literally played 2 positions simultaneously to compensate for Joe Schmidt's utter lack of athleticism. Starting him over Nyles Morgan at any point in time for any reason was CRIMINAL

I'm not sure I'm understanding your point?
Nyles Morgan was good and no need to worry about changing his legacy with anything. He was a freshman and sophomore in the last 2 years of Joe's career.
Nyles played in 9-10 games in both his freshman and sophomore years. Everyone was ecstatic when he came through his Junior/senior year after a ho-hum sophomore year. He may have been injured. I don't remember..
He needed more time to get a grip on the D that BVG had them running as far as I remember. (Kelly said something like: He just needs more time) .
I personally know 2 guys that played at Georgia Southern under BVG. He wasn't an easy guy to get along with, and I was happy in 2016 when we fired him midway through the season. (he did pitch a shutout against Michigan tho)

Edit: Brian Polian has a great moment in his recruiting day presser about trusting the staff. Ya might want to watch It.
 
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Circa

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To develop him. To connect the film room to live game action. Live game action is a motivator because no one wants to be embarrassed in a game.

If our guys don't want to be embarrassed than they'll need to be ALL IN! It's hard being a QB, It's intellectually/physically elite to be the QB of ND.
Some kids take longer than others to understand what it takes. The amount of focus/discipline It takes...
It's something most of us internet boardroom people will never understand.
 

WilliamWallace

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Anyone know off hand who was the last Pennsylvania player that really shined for ND? Seems like we’ve not had very much luck in the state in the last 5 years.
 

NDBoiler

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Anyone know off hand who was the last Pennsylvania player that really shined for ND? Seems like we’ve not had very much luck in the state in the last 5 years.

Some kid that Beano said would win like 3 heismans did somewhat decent.
 

Senoj13

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Anyone know off hand who was the last Pennsylvania player that really shined for ND? Seems like we’ve not had very much luck in the state in the last 5 years.

I remember a kid that went by the name of Rocket...think he may have been from PA
 

zelezo vlk

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Lugg looks to be finding his feet and Hinish has been good.

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NDdomer2

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Anyone know off hand who was the last Pennsylvania player that really shined for ND? Seems like we’ve not had very much luck in the state in the last 5 years.

Josh Adams & Will Fuller worked out pretty well

Mike McGlinchey had an awesome career as well.

giphy.webp
 
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