'17 IN WR Mac Hippenhammer (Penn State Verbal)

[IrishLax]

I actually think we have a lot of flexibility, and adding A. Jones, Brock Wright, and Cole Kmet back to the roster next year actually tips the balance back to using more TEs and RBs, which I prefer.

Dom, great post. Here's what I think you need to be a bit careful of though.

The depth issue at outside WR is extremely scary unless you truly believe that Alize or Claypool can play it proficiently as a true WR running every route in the tree... not just in a limited/hybrid capacity.

The issue is that you basically need to have two outside WRs who are "fully capable" at all times. Right now, we have ESB And Stepherson. Great. But behind them, McKinley is completely unproven and Boykin is proven to have questionable hands, inconsistent route running, and trouble getting separation. Similarly, if you try to ask Jones to fill in for Stepherson if he goes down then is he going to be able to execute that roll? Can he be a deep threat? I doubt it. So you're talking about having to completely modify the offense to fit a guy like him if that's your "next man in" at either outside WR spot (less of an issue though, probably, if he subs for ESB).

Also, our depth chart for slot actually seems quite solid at this point so going 2 WR/2 TE as a base isn't necessarily a value added if that means Finke/Sanders sit on the bench of a second TE that may not be effective. So losing either of our starters is pretty scary, and that's why you need at least two outside WRs in this class especially if you're considering more than just the 2017 season. If you're looking ahead at 2018, etc. then if ESB goes pro this year and you don't pick up a single guy who can play outside in this class then what happens? I think it's that look two seasons down the road that makes outside WR arguably the most important position for us to add commits to finish this cycle... possibly even more than DE or DB.

 

[ND Fan Vancouver]

Dom, great post. Here's what I think you need to be a bit careful of though.

The depth issue at outside WR is extremely scary unless you truly believe that Alize or Claypool can play it proficiently as a true WR running every route in the tree... not just in a limited/hybrid capacity.

The issue is that you basically need to have two outside WRs who are "fully capable" at all times. Right now, we have ESB And Stepherson. Great. But behind them, McKinley is completely unproven and Boykin is proven to have questionable hands, inconsistent route running, and trouble getting separation. Similarly, if you try to ask Jones to fill in for Stepherson if he goes down then is he going to be able to execute that roll? Can he be a deep threat? I doubt it. So you're talking about having to completely modify the offense to fit a guy like him if that's your "next man in" at either outside WR spot (less of an issue though, probably, if he subs for ESB).

Also, our depth chart for slot actually seems quite solid at this point so going 2 WR/2 TE as a base isn't necessarily a value added if that means Finke/Sanders sit on the bench of a second TE that may not be effective. So losing either of our starters is pretty scary, and that's why you need at least two outside WRs in this class especially if you're considering more than just the 2017 season. If you're looking ahead at 2018, etc. then if ESB goes pro this year and you don't pick up a single guy who can play outside in this class then what happens? I think it's that look two seasons down the road that makes outside WR arguably the most important position for us to add commits to finish this cycle... possibly even more than DE or DB.

I like this discussion and I asked Lou about this in the BGI forum.
Here's what I think. First of all, ND is shooting for two WR's in this class. It's seems like there is only a few on the radar right now (Oliver, Armstrong, Hippenhammer, Holmes) so that leaves me nervous if we'll be able to 2 in the end. In 17 I think we're in better shape than people think. Assuming Stepherson is back and McKinley is healthy, we should be in good shape at X. IF either Steph or McKinley aren't up to snuff for whatever reason, I think Claypool gets his shots at X. BGI actually did a preview of the WR's and they have Chase as an X. And yes, he IS good enough to run all routes and is certainly a deep threat. I think ESB the lion's share on the other side with Alize getting his shots as well and Boykin will be insurance (he had his chances and unfortunately, he literally dropped the ball.)

I think Alize and Calypool won't have to worry about getting W or X snaps as they will be in Long's bunch and trips and exotic stacked sets. Like being a 3 WR or BIG slot. I've watched tons of Memphis film and seriously boys, our offense is gonna rape.

Yes, though. We need 2 WR's for future depth.

 

[Domina Nostra]

Here's what I think you need to be a bit careful of though.

The depth issue at outside WR is extremely scary unless you truly believe that Alize or Claypool can play it proficiently as a true WR running every route in the tree... not just in a limited/hybrid capacity.

The issue is that you basically need to have two outside WRs who are "fully capable" at all times.

Also, our depth chart for slot actually seems quite solid at this point so going 2 WR/2 TE as a base isn't necessarily a value added if that means Finke/Sanders sit on the bench of a second TE that may not be effective.

Here's what I think. First of all, ND is shooting for two WR's in this class. . . . In 17 I think we're in better shape than people think. Assuming Stepherson is back and McKinley is healthy, we should be in good shape at X. IF either Steph or McKinley aren't up to snuff for whatever reason, I think Claypool gets his shots at X. . . . I think ESB the lion's share on the other side with Alize getting his shots as well and Boykin will be insurance (he had his chances and unfortunately, he literally dropped the ball.)

I think Alize and Calypool won't have to worry about getting W or X snaps as they will be in Long's bunch and trips and exotic stacked sets. Like being a 3 WR or BIG slot. I've watched tons of Memphis film and seriously boys, our offense is gonna rape.

Yes, though. We need 2 WR's for future depth.

I agree with both of you guys. I think depth is scarier in '18, but I think we're fine next year barring a bunch of injuries.

I see us going big next year because we are going to want to give the QB big targets, and big downfield blockers. The routes should be simple and based on size and leverage. I think St. Brown and A. Jones overtake Stepherson as "the" guys.

I am basing a lot on the fact that I do think that Alize can play W full time. I think he'll be very good. I don't see him as a true TE. That means if either Stepherson or St. Brown go down, he can start without a significant drop-off (it would be a change in scheme, though). That would also get our slots more involved.

I also don't see Javon as a huge unknown. Kind of like I wasn't surprised that Finke played as much as he did. Some guys just dominate in high school because they have the tools, but are also ballers. That is McKinley to me. He'll be fine.

Claypool and Boykin will be primarily blockers, with Claypool driving DC's crazy when they unleash him every once in a while.

 

[Irish#1]

I agree with both of you guys. I think depth is scarier in '18, but I think we're fine next year barring a bunch of injuries.

I see us going big next year because we are going to want to give the QB big targets, and big downfield blockers. The routes should be simple and based on size and leverage. I think St. Brown and A. Jones overtake Stepherson as "the" guys.

I am basing a lot on the fact that I do think that Alize can play W full time. I think he'll be very good. I don't see him as a true TE. That means if either Stepherson or St. Brown go down, he can start without a significant drop-off (it would be a change in scheme, though). That would also get our slots more involved.

I also don't see Javon as a huge unknown. Kind of like I wasn't surprised that Finke played as much as he did. Some guys just dominate in high school because they have the tools, but are also ballers. That is McKinley to me. He'll be fine.

Claypool and Boykin will be primarily blockers, with Claypool driving DC's crazy when they unleash him every once in a while.

That's hoping for a lot, but if we go with a lot of two TE sets, it would help.

 

[Cackalacky]

It sounds to me that with Chip Long he likes to use multiple TEs and. Multiple running backs at times so that will definitely require less WRs by default. But i share the concern for WR depth.

 

[IrishLion]

Adams and Williams in the backfield to either side of Wimbush; ESB isolated to one side; Smythe and Alize lined up to the other side detached from the line.

Force the defense to either defend a spread, two-back formation in base 4-3 or nickle personnel.

If base 4-3, throw the damn ball.

If base nickle, run the damn ball.

Go no-huddle and put one or both TE's in-line depending on how the defense reacts; continue to kill fools.

Who needs depth at WR?

 

[connor_in]

Adams and Williams in the backfield to either side of Wimbush; ESB isolated to one side; Smythe and Alize lined up to the other side detached from the line.

Force the defense to either defend a spread, two-back formation in base 4-3 or nickle personnel.

If base 4-3, throw the damn ball.

If base nickle, run the damn ball.

Go no-huddle and put one or both TE's in-line depending on how the defense reacts; continue to kill fools.

Who needs depth at WR?

Put Luatua in there, call him a FB, and give him the dang ball (mawr FB!)

 

[ND Fan Vancouver]

Adams and Williams in the backfield to either side of Wimbush; ESB isolated to one side; Smythe and Alize lined up to the other side detached from the line.

Force the defense to either defend a spread, two-back formation in base 4-3 or nickle personnel.

If base 4-3, throw the damn ball.

If base nickle, run the damn ball.

Go no-huddle and put one or both TE's in-line depending on how the defense reacts; continue to kill fools.

Who needs depth at WR?

Yessir. This is exactly how Memphis went about their business last year. They also use a lot of the RPO's which I personally think BW will kill at. I'm so fuc%$ng excited to see this offense. I have a strong gut feeling that our offense is going to be one of the best in the country next year. I think our OL will play to their potential with Kraemer getting the nod at RG and will be great. I think Wimbush lives up to his #43 recruit billing. I think ESB/Alize and our other solid mix of WR's and TE's including Brock Wright will make big plays. I think Josh Adams plays with the intensity that he used against USC otherwise 2 really hungry and really talented RB's are waiting in the wings. I have watched every Memphis offensive footage piece I could find online and that offense is nasty. Utilizes exotic formations that require a lot of adjustments and poise by the defense and they do it all using tempo.

I know my heart gets in the way often and I make lofty predictions but I've really spent the time to look at this offense and our personnel.

 

[Domina Nostra]

That's hoping for a lot, but if we go with a lot of two TE sets, it would help.

Agreed. And I'm thinking that they will go more 2 RB or 2 TE this year.

I am also thinking that there will inevitably be one or two serious injuries, but I think the receiving corps is likely to be very good if they are not to both Stepherson and St. Brown. Even if they are, I would not be shocked to learn that A. Jones, McKinley, Claypool, and Sanders turned out to be a very good unit anyway. That is a lot of talent.

Yessir. I have a strong gut feeling that our offense is going to be one of the best in the country next year. . . . I know my heart gets in the way often and I make lofty predictions but I've really spent the time to look at this offense and our personnel.

Predictions are usually based on last year, so people will be down on ND. But I agree. I think the offense is going to be one of the best ND has seen. I think the skill talent is there, and I think BW falls into that sweet sport for Kelly QB's where he has the talent to be great, but they aren't going to ask him to be great.

So spread it out, lean on the OL . . . when the defense leaves a hole, he's off to the races; when they stack the box, he throws it 60 yards to Stepherson or St. Brown.

 

[Bogtrotter07]

Agreed. And I'm thinking that they will go more 2 RB or 2 TE this year.

I am also thinking that there will inevitably be one or two serious injuries, but I think the receiving corps is likely to be very good if they are not to both Stepherson and St. Brown. Even if they are, I would not be shocked to learn that A. Jones, McKinley, Claypool, and Sanders turned out to be a very good unit anyway. That is a lot of talent.




Predictions are usually based on last year, so people will be down on ND. But I agree. I think the offense is going to be one of the best ND has seen. I think the skill talent is there, and I think BW falls into that sweet sport for Kelly QB's where he has the talent to be great, but they aren't going to ask him to be great.

So spread it out, lean on the OL . . . when the defense leaves a hole, he's off to the races; when they stack the box, he throws it 60 yards to Stepherson or St. Brown.

There are going to have to be some fundamental things either changed or corrected with the offense, whatever the look presented gameday, but I think that is in process.

If Long really takes over the offense, several of these changes will be made in a positive manner, and the offense may look similar but actually run more effectively. And it may favor an extremely mobile quarterback like Wimbush. But more importantly, will Kelly be kept out of the offense?

In the meantime, anyone heard anything about his kid? He should have been offered months ago, and should excel with time in Long's system.

 

[Domina Nostra]

But more importantly, will Kelly be kept out of the offense?

IMO, and I don't think it will be popular, I think Denbrock's play-calling might have actually been a real part of the problem. We all know for certain that Kelly will let a coach make the same mistakes for long periods of time.

Kelly has been here since 2008, and there have been some dumb patterns that emerged. But the pass on first, run on second and long grove we got into lately, as well as the inability to score in the 4th Q, were never trends until the last two years. Those seem to coincide with Denbrock's time as play caller.

So I'm not sure if it was just a matter of Denbrock calling the plays or, more likely, Kelly over-riding him occasionally and the combination of the two not working, but something was up in 2015 and 2016 that is not likely all on Kelly.

 

[Irish#1]

Yessir. This is exactly how Memphis went about their business last year. They also use a lot of the RPO's which I personally think BW will kill at. I'm so fuc%$ng excited to see this offense. I have a strong gut feeling that our offense is going to be one of the best in the country next year. I think our OL will play to their potential with Kraemer getting the nod at RG and will be great. I think Wimbush lives up to his #43 recruit billing. I think ESB/Alize and our other solid mix of WR's and TE's including Brock Wright will make big plays. I think Josh Adams plays with the intensity that he used against USC otherwise 2 really hungry and really talented RB's are waiting in the wings. I have watched every Memphis offensive footage piece I could find online and that offense is nasty. Utilizes exotic formations that require a lot of adjustments and poise by the defense and they do it all using tempo.

I know my heart gets in the way often and I make lofty predictions but I've really spent the time to look at this offense and our personnel.

Really, I never noticed! lol

While there is potential, you also have to consider the learning curve for learning a new offense. You can practice and practice, but you need to play actual games to get through the growing pains. I would love to see pinball numbers right out of the gate, but I would guess you won't see the offense really clicking until about half way through the season.

 

[Irish#1]

IMO, and I don't think it will be popular, I think Denbrock's play-calling might have actually been a real part of the problem. We all know for certain that Kelly will let a coach make the same mistakes for long periods of time.

Kelly has been here since 2008, and there have been some dumb patterns that emerged. But the pass on first, run on second and long grove we got into lately, as well as the inability to score in the 4th Q, were never trends until the last two years. Those seem to coincide with Denbrock's time as play caller.

So I'm not sure if it was just a matter of Denbrock calling the plays or, more likely, Kelly over-riding him occasionally and the combination of the two not working, but something was up in 2015 and 2016 that is not likely all on Kelly.

IMO it still falls on BK. If he's sees the same thing over and over with the same results, he should be addressing that at that time.

 

[OCIrish]

IMO it still falls on BK. If he's sees the same thing over and over with the same results, he should be addressing that at that time.

I have to agree with you, as ultimately it IS Kelly's job to get points on the board. I don't know if it was hampered by having to help out on the defensive side of the ball, or what, but last year especially stood out on the offensive side of the ball as something was lacking

 

[Blaise]

Soooooo Hippenhammer.... Where do we stand? People I have talked to a few weeks ago thought we didn't have much of a shot but after Monday, did anything change?

 

[OCIrish]

I'm gonna text an old friend, later and see if I can find out anything.

 

[Meatloaf]

http://irishsportsdaily.com/forums/1/topics/2497/replies/29571#29571

ISD actually just dropped some stuff on him. He'll be a tough pull if he goes through with his penn st visit this weekend. New ND wr coach will in home on Fri and will have to convince Hipp that ND truly wants him despite not recruiting him earlier in the process.

So essentially if he makes it to Penn St this weekend, he gone.

 

[BobbyMac]

Soooooo Hippenhammer.... Where do we stand? People I have talked to a few weeks ago thought we didn't have much of a shot but after Monday, did anything change?

Tom Loy
Chris Smith
Matej Sis
Gus Ramos
Sean Levy
Sean Scherer
Kyle Goblirsch
David Derus

All with ND CB's since Monday.

Fonger hasn't flipped yet, hanging on to the PSU pick for the points... until Mac calls him before the flip-tweet goes out..

 

[BobbyMac]

http://irishsportsdaily.com/forums/1/topics/2497/replies/29571#29571

ISD actually just dropped some stuff on him. He'll be a tough pull if he goes through with his penn st visit this weekend. New ND wr coach will in home on Fri and will have to convince Hipp that ND truly wants him despite not recruiting him earlier in the process.

So essentially if he makes it to Penn St this weekend, he gone.

They recruited him, they just didn't offer. It would be telling if they 100% dropped all communication with him for the period after II until it picked back up after the Pouncey/Adebo defections.

While the second part may be true, there also could be some after NSD recruiting going on this cycle. Hopefully not Demetrius Robinson style post-NSD recruiting but it might not be wrapped up on NSD. Mac could fall into that category.

 

[Bogtrotter07]

I have to agree with you, as ultimately it IS Kelly's job to get points on the board. I don't know if it was hampered by having to help out on the defensive side of the ball, or what, but last year especially stood out on the offensive side of the ball as something was lacking

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/J2LSfz1LmZ4" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

 

[Bogtrotter07]

Intelligence?

 

[Meatloaf]

They recruited him, they just didn't offer. It would be telling if they 100% dropped all communication with him for the period after II until it picked back up after the Pouncey/Adebo defections.

I didn't summarize properly. Should've said offered rather than recruited.

 

[Irish#1]

I have to agree with you, as ultimately it IS Kelly's job to get points on the board. I don't know if it was hampered by having to help out on the defensive side of the ball, or what, but last year especially stood out on the offensive side of the ball as something was lacking

Agree, once he flipped to babysit the D, the offense sputtered. But that's on him as well since he didn't rectify the situation with BVG until we had already started to circle the drain.

 

[Irish#1]

They recruited him, they just didn't offer. It would be telling if they 100% dropped all communication with him for the period after II until it picked back up after the Pouncey/Adebo defections.

While the second part may be true, there also could be some after NSD recruiting going on this cycle. Hopefully not Demetrius Robinson style post-NSD recruiting but it might not be wrapped up on NSD. Mac could fall into that category.

So we really have no clue what's going to happen, correct?

 

[Bogtrotter07]

It sounds like from two or three sources, plus all of the journalists that have cb's in for ND, Mac holds no ill will toward Notre Dame.

It sounds like most are saying some version of, it all comes down to how well Mac, and the new wide receiver coach hit it off, and how he can sell Mac on Mac fitting into the offense at ND.

If he is successful at that on Friday, Mac may cancel his official to Penn State, or postpone it. But if Mac does Happy Valley on Saturday, that is a repudiation of ND's chances in this recruiting battle.

My question is why not hit him on Friday with the OC, or even, dare I say it, Brian Kelly?

Hell, you know me, I would send Harry!

 

[BobbyMac]

So we really have no clue what's going to happen, correct?

I don't, that's all I can tell you.

Ace Anbender from MGo Blog just CB'd him too. That makes 5 B1G analysts that flipped in the past two days.

That means something, I guess, maybe, right? If it were Vegas, I'd like our hand.

 

[IrishFanForever23]

Alexander visiting him tomorrow.

 

[clashmore_mike]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr"><a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/NotreDame?src=hash">#NotreDame</a> to visit with a top WR target tomorrow morning. The latest at <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Irish247?src=hash">#Irish247</a> <a href="https://t.co/w7h54dovfh">https://t.co/w7h54dovfh</a> (VIP) via <a href="https://twitter.com/247Sports">@247Sports</a> <a href="https://t.co/u560NTPPBc">pic.twitter.com/u560NTPPBc</a></p>— Tom Loy (@TomLoy247) <a href="https://twitter.com/TomLoy247/status/821909573007241216">January 19, 2017</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[Fbolt]

Liking where this is heading.

 

[ND Fan Vancouver]

I predict he commits before his visit to Penn State. This kid wants to go to ND