'15 FL ATH Dexter Williams (Notre Dame Signed NLI)

[Pops Freshenmeyer]

When Alford was here, he was very "symbiotic" with pretty much all of the recruiting professionals covering ND. Which was particularly great for them, considering he was our recruiting coordinator and in charge of chasing a lot of the big fish down south. So you were never going to hear a critical word from them about Alford as a coach... regardless of off the field issues in his position group and an overall lack of production (at least relative to Denson). And I think that's fine, because I also think Alford was a good coach and really well liked by his players.

I'll just say that the main guy pushing the anti-Denson stuff the hardest is a guy Denson doesn't talk to. Denson does talk to some other reporters... and surprise, surprise those guys aren't the ones you hear taking ludicrous shots at him. Everyone has their biases. My issue is the disingenuous nature in which a coach that is getting more production from his group than we've seen in literal decades from any other ND running back coach is having all of that ignored in favor of 1) an unfair narrative about "his" players getting in trouble 2) an illogical narrative that acts like recruiting rankings are more important than production.

Thank you for elucidating.

 

[IrishLax]

Are you putting Adams production on Denson, or a line based around McG, Q, Bars, Mustipher?

An obviously loaded question. Everyone knows RB production is a product of line play, RB play, and scheme.

 

[snoopdog]

An obviously loaded question. Everyone knows RB production is a product of line play, RB play, and scheme.

Not loaded.

Denson's success as a RB coach will be determined this year, with an inferior oline and group of RB's. And when I say inferior, I mean a step down from last years talent level.

Personally I see Jones and Smith as being meh....so if they light it up, than I will happily accept that my fears around Denson's less than stellar recruiting were unfounded.

 

[Irish YJ]

An obviously loaded question. Everyone knows RB production is a product of line play, RB play, and scheme.

And QB play, or lack there of.

If BW is accurate this year, I'd bet our RBs are successful regardless of the OL taking a step back. If he struggles, we're in for a long season.

 

[Luckylucci]

Josh Adams was stellar. CJ Prosise, a converted WR pressed into service as RB1 after Folston got hurt, was quite good. Beyond those two, and looking at the current depth chart, who are you talking about?

Taking a S, to converted WR, to converted RB and in his first season, Prosise eclipsed the 1,000-yard rushing barrier faster than any Irish running back in school history with the exception of All-American Reggie Brooks in 1992. Probably better than quite good.

He's only been the RB coach for 3 years so there isn't going to be a laundry list of names because there isn't that much time or carries. But, for example, Deon McIntosh who was a lowly recruited 3 star (778 in composite) avg. 5.7 ypc last season with the 65 carries he got. That's damn good for a sophomore nobody wanted.

 

[IrishSteelhead]

'15 FL ATH Dexter Williams (Notre Dame Signed NLI)

But, for example, Deon McIntosh who was a lowly recruited 3 star (778 in composite) avg. 5.7 ypc last season with the 65 carries he got. That's damn good for a sophomore nobody wanted.

What impressed me most were his carries in the UNC game. You gotta remember the bulk of his carries last season were in garbage time, with the defense stacking because there is a 100% chance a run is coming.

He just kept getting lose and moving the chains late in the 4th, salting the game away in grand fashion.


*It was Holmes that got the late carries, not McIntosh. My memory didnt serve me correctly, shocker.....

 

[Luckylucci]

What impressed me most were his carries in the UNC game. You gotta remember the bulk of his carries last season were in garbage time, with the defense stacking because there is a 100% chance a run is coming.

He just kept getting lose and moving the chains late in the 4th, salting the game away in grand fashion.

I agree, the fact that as a sophomore (a former #778 prospect) was ready to play at that level was impressive. Just wish he'd kept out of trouble. But that does go to prove a couple of things. 1.) Clearly identifying underrated talent. 2.) Developing that talent. That should be projectable going forward.

Now, Denson shouldn't get all that credit, but he should get a sizeable amount. Also, I don't think anybody is calling for him to get a statue or that he's the best RB coach in the country. But he's done a darn good job since taking over. Really impressive how quickly he's gotten some of these players ready to go.

 

[Luckylucci]

What impressed me most were his carries in the UNC game. You gotta remember the bulk of his carries last season were in garbage time, with the defense stacking because there is a 100% chance a run is coming.

He just kept getting lose and moving the chains late in the 4th, salting the game away in grand fashion.


*It was Holmes that got the late carries, not McIntosh. My memory didnt serve me correctly, shocker.....

Without knowing exactly when you are referring to but Deon did as well. Had a huge second half. 12 for 124 with two TD's. We basically ran down their throat for 2 qtrs. With them knowing it was coming, lol

 

[IrishSteelhead]

Without knowing exactly when you are referring to but Deon did as well. Had a huge second half. 12 for 124 with two TD's. We basically ran down their throat for 2 qtrs. With them knowing it was coming, lol

Thats what I remember, McIntosh running all over them in the second half against a stacked box.

Boxscore shows Holmes got 8 of the last 9 carries and that threw me off, but McIntosh came back in and got 7 on 4th and 2 to end it.

 

[stlnd01]

McIntosh. Holmes. Ah, the memories...

 

[T-Boone]

so is it announced he is off the team yet or is this all still just media talk?

 

[Valpodoc85]

Just smoke

 

[BGIF]

McIntosh. Holmes. Ah, the memories...

Beano predicts Williams will win two Heisman's this year.

 

[Irishize]

Just smoke

But seems like a foregone conclusion. Ironically, the ESPNU S/XM promo featuring ND used the names of Wimbush, Tillery & Dexter

 

[T-Boone]

But seems like a foregone conclusion.

According to the smoke.

 

[Crazy Balki]

And now, all those stellar players are gone.....which is my point

And I agree with BGIF's point, that it is not the coaches job to babysit players....BUT it is their job to recruit the best players available (4-5 stars) and develop them.

I don't think you can fault Denson on development at all....but it is recruitment that makes you go HMMMMMM

Josh Adams was a low 4-star RB, and some services had him rated as 3-star.

CJ Prosise wasn't even a RB, and was a 3-star Safety.

Fact is that so far, Denson has gotten great production from the RB position, despite there being instances of major attrition.

In addition, Williams wasn't a Denson recruit. Williams was recruited by Alford.

 

[snoopdog]

Josh Adams was a low 4-star RB, and some services had him rated as 3-star.

CJ Prosise wasn't even a RB, and was a 3-star Safety.

Fact is that so far, Denson has gotten great production from the RB position, despite there being instances of major attrition.

In addition, Williams wasn't a Denson recruit. Williams was recruited by Alford.

Williams wasn't recruited by Denson, which also goes for Adams and CJ.

Maybe he turns Jafar into the second coming of CJ....which would be most welcome....but without a doubt, ND has done a subpar job in recruiting at the RB spot since Denson came....whether it is circumstantial or Denson...

 

[Irish YJ]

Williams wasn't recruited by Denson, which also goes for Adams and CJ.

Maybe he turns Jafar into the second coming of CJ....which would be most welcome....but without a doubt, ND has done a subpar job in recruiting at the RB spot since Denson came....whether it is circumstantial or Denson...

For the most part, I just think the times, they are a changing. If you look at the last 4-5 years of Top 10 RBs (even top 20), it's incredibly rare to see a RB go to an academic school like ND. Unless they grew up Irish, or have an incredibly strong religious pull, it's not likely to happen for us (to get a top 10 guy). The SEC and other top state schools are killing it.

So we're left mostly with "identifying" the hidden or unrecognized talent. I don't see that changing any time soon unless we consistently have guys going into the league. I'm just happy as a pig in shit when we can get a low 4 star guy.

The good thing is that our OL can make 3 star talent look like 5 star talent when the stars align. That is, assuming our QB can toss the ball enough to keep the D from stacking the box.

 

[Crazy Balki]

Williams wasn't recruited by Denson, which also goes for Adams and CJ.

Maybe he turns Jafar into the second coming of CJ....which would be most welcome....but without a doubt, ND has done a subpar job in recruiting at the RB spot since Denson came....whether it is circumstantial or Denson...

Two different points.

Williams wasn't recruited by Denson, thus he didn't have a read on any potential behavioral issues.

Denson didn't recruit Prosise or Adams, but he did develop them. Keep in mind that Prosise didn't convert to RB until 2015 and Adams didn't arrive on campus until fall 2015, thus Denson was the guy who coached them up.

That's the point I'm making. How they've recruited has been irrelevant, because they've gotten good to elite production out of the position. And as pointed out before, this isn't exactly new. Alford got a few elite RB's like Bryant, Folston and Williams, but so far, one turned into a quality back (albeit plagued with injuries), one got suspended and left without making a major impact (then tragically lost his life) and another is experiencing an offseason marred in speculation and fears of suspension.

 

[stlnd01]

Two different points.

Williams wasn't recruited by Denson, thus he didn't have a read on any potential behavioral issues.
.

But Denson has been Williams’ position coach for three years. I’d assume he knows the young man quite well. That is the job, after all.

So either - as some have suggested - Denson has worked hard to keep Dex on the straight and narrow and engaged and is a major reason he’s still here at all. Or Denson allowed enough trouble to occur on his watch that Dex may never see the field again for ND. I don’t know enough about the inner workings to know which is the case.

 

[Crazy Balki]

But Denson has been Williams’ position coach for three years. I’d assume he knows the young man quite well. That is the job, after all.

So either - as some have suggested - Denson has worked hard to keep Dex on the straight and narrow and engaged and is a major reason he’s still here at all. Or Denson allowed enough trouble to occur on his watch that Dex may never see the field again for ND. I don’t know enough about the inner workings to know which is the case.

It's really not, and I don't believe it's either here nor there.

Ultimately, Denson's primary job is to get the most out of the RB position on the field. He'll meet with his players, he'll discuss what they're doing in their off-field lives and he'll give them advice as he sees fit, but as has been stated, there's a lot more staff and faculty that seek to the off-field matters than just the position coach.

Ultimately, leaving the responsibility of a student's conduct up to a football position coach just sounds like a concept doomed to fail. Coaches have limitations as to how much time they can spend with players and even during the times they are with them. In addition, even when confronted with genuine advice, 18-20 year olds will very often ignore that advice and do what they wish anyways.

 

[stlnd01]

It's really not, and I don't believe it's either here nor there.

Ultimately, Denson's primary job is to get the most out of the RB position on the field. He'll meet with his players, he'll discuss what they're doing in their off-field lives and he'll give them advice as he sees fit, but as has been stated, there's a lot more staff and faculty that seek to the off-field matters than just the position coach.

Ultimately, leaving the responsibility of a student's conduct up to a football position coach just sounds like a concept doomed to fail. Coaches have limitations as to how much time they can spend with players and even during the times they are with them. In addition, even when confronted with genuine advice, 18-20 year olds will very often ignore that advice and do what they wish anyways.

If a coach's job is "to get the most out of the RB position on the field," a wise coach will do what he can to influence his players' life off the field. Otherwise - as we're seeing - they don't get on the field in the first place.

 

[EddytoNow]

It's really not, and I don't believe it's either here nor there.

Ultimately, Denson's primary job is to get the most out of the RB position on the field. He'll meet with his players, he'll discuss what they're doing in their off-field lives and he'll give them advice as he sees fit, but as has been stated, there's a lot more staff and faculty that seek to the off-field matters than just the position coach.

Ultimately, leaving the responsibility of a student's conduct up to a football position coach just sounds like a concept doomed to fail. Coaches have limitations as to how much time they can spend with players and even during the times they are with them. In addition, even when confronted with genuine advice, 18-20 year olds will very often ignore that advice and do what they wish anyways.

Your last sentence says it all. Anyone who has ever been a parent or teacher knows this to be a fact. You can guide and advise all day long, but in the end you're not making the decision to mess up the young man's life. That responsibility falls on the individual involved.

 

[IrishSteelhead]

What are the actual odds he plays against Michigan?


1%?

50%?

0%?

 

[Irish YJ]

What are the actual odds he plays against Michigan?


1%?

50%?

0%?

I'm going to guess 50%. If I were him, and was facing a suspension, I'd be gone to showcase my talent somewhere else. Given BK's history of suspensions and doghouse benching, it's hard for me to imagine any RB staying their last year to start off with what has been rumored as at least a 4 game suspension.

 

[Irishize]

What are the actual odds he plays against Michigan?


1%?

50%?

0%?

1% that he is a contributor to ND football this season. Unfortunately, it seems inevitable.

 

[dublinirish]

0%

 

[stlnd01]

I'm going to guess 50%. If I were him, and was facing a suspension, I'd be gone to showcase my talent somewhere else. Given BK's history of suspensions and doghouse benching, it's hard for me to imagine any RB staying their last year to start off with what has been rumored as at least a 4 game suspension.

Same. As long as Dex is enrolled and on the team, I think there's a good chance he'll be a contributor for us (if not against Michigan, then after a brief suspension). The guy's a senior with NFL talent. If he's not going to play, why would he still be here?

Related: When did/do players go back to campus? Did he?

 

[Irish YJ]

Same. As long as Dex is enrolled and on the team, I think there's a good chance he'll be a contributor for us (if not against Michigan, then after a brief suspension). The guy's a senior with NFL talent. If he's not going to play, why would he still be here?

Yup, I just can't see him staying if facing anything more than a 1 game suspension, and a promise not to sleep in the doghouse afterwards.

Related: When did/do players go back to campus? Did he?

great question. someone, help!!

 

[Irishman77]

Should have transferred last year when Kelly black balled him. What a whaste of talent.