'15 CA QB Josh Rosen (UCLA Verbal)

[dublinirish]

Some do, some don't, regardless of which school you're at. I think what he's saying is that, generally speaking, the education players receive isn't worth much because there is not enough academic support for players, they're often pushed into worthless majors to help them stay eligible, etc. Not the case for all, but in general I believe he's correct.

This is also an implicit argument in favor of players getting paid. Currently, many argue that the value of the education they receive is effectively payment enough for the players. Rosen's saying that the value of that education is greatly diminished because of football, which would imply that it's not payment enough (or at all). I think he's right on the money with that (see: UNC).

for sure and if football activities limit you from achieving the undegrad degree you want from your school then the whole system is broken (see harbaugh from years back giving out about michigan's general studies majors). Either the schools accommodate the players or another solution is required.

 

[KizerWilhelm]

If you think THAT's throwing shade, keep reading.

B/R: How is it, then, that some guys graduate in three years? Deshaun Watson graduated in three years from Clemson. So did his roommate, Artavis Scott.

Rosen: I'm not knocking what those guys accomplished. They should be applauded for that. But certain schools are easier than others.

 

[Domina Nostra]

This is also an implicit argument in favor of players getting paid. Currently, many argue that the value of the education they receive is effectively payment enough for the players. Rosen's saying that the value of that education is greatly diminished because of football, which would imply that it's not payment enough (or at all). I think he's right on the money with that (see: UNC).

If you pay the players, it becomes minor league football, which to me is about as interesting as minor league baseball, NBDL, and Canadian football.

So...evidently the Bruins have a tremendous amount of academic scholars on their football team because they suck at football.

WWWWWWEEEEEEE-HHHHOOOOOOOOO! ROLL TIDE!

 

[IrishLax]

The most intriguing thing about Rosen's honesty in that interview is that rather succinctly cuts through the bullshit... a 1000 SAT is hundreds of points below what the average kid has at a place like Ohio State. Why are the NCAA minimums so low as to make 1000 seem like a high bar? Why is it run like a semi-pro league where it takes the bare minimum to be eligible and the emphasis is on keeping the "talent" on the field? Shouldn't collegiate sports be set up for college students to be able to compete NOT for athletes to have an audition for a pro-league?

The only sport where this is a problem is football... where there's no minor league, kids have to stay for three full years, and the sport generates tons of profit.

If you raised the NCAA minimums to a 1000 and 3.0 you'd push out a lot of the talent... which would force the NFL to create a minor league, which would end the pay-to-play problem.

 

[Domina Nostra]

The most intriguing thing about Rosen's honesty in that interview is that rather succinctly cuts through the bullshit... a 1000 SAT is hundreds of points below what the average kid has at a place like Ohio State. Why are the NCAA minimums so low as to make 1000 seem like a high bar? Why is it run like a semi-pro league where it takes the bare minimum to be eligible and the emphasis is on keeping the "talent" on the field? Shouldn't collegiate sports be set up for college students to be able to compete NOT for athletes to have an audition for a pro-league?

The only sport where this is a problem is football... where there's no minor league, kids have to stay for three full years, and the sport generates tons of profit.

If you raised the NCAA minimums to a 1000 and 3.0 you'd push out a lot of the talent... which would force the NFL to create a minor league, which would end the pay-to-play problem.

Exactly.

 

[irishroo]

The most intriguing thing about Rosen's honesty in that interview is that rather succinctly cuts through the bullshit... a 1000 SAT is hundreds of points below what the average kid has at a place like Ohio State. Why are the NCAA minimums so low as to make 1000 seem like a high bar? Why is it run like a semi-pro league where it takes the bare minimum to be eligible and the emphasis is on keeping the "talent" on the field? Shouldn't collegiate sports be set up for college students to be able to compete NOT for athletes to have an audition for a pro-league?

The only sport where this is a problem is football... where there's no minor league, kids have to stay for three full years, and the sport generates tons of profit.

If you raised the NCAA minimums to a 1000 and 3.0 you'd push out a lot of the talent... which would force the NFL to create a minor league, which would end the pay-to-play problem.

Yep, this is right. Another way to end the pay-to-play problem? Get rid of the requirement that a person is 3 years out of HS to be eligible for the NFL. Solves almost all the problems with one stroke of a pen

 

[irishroo]

If you pay the players, it becomes minor league football, which to me is about as interesting as minor league baseball, NBDL, and Canadian football.

Don't disagree, but what's the solution? Current setup is unsustainable and players and courts are finally starting to realize it.

 

[Irishnuke]

Yep, this is right. Another way to end the pay-to-play problem? Get rid of the requirement that a person is 3 years out of HS to be eligible for the NFL. Solves almost all the problems with one stroke of a pen

Most kids aren't even close to ready for the NFL 3 years removed from school. Do you really want to see college freshmen and sophomores declaring for the draft?

 

[Whiskeyjack]

If you raised the NCAA minimums to a 1000 and 3.0 you'd push out a lot of the talent... which would force the NFL to create a minor league, which would end the pay-to-play problem.

You wanna see ND win a national title again? This is how it happens. Direct your rage at the NFL and the NCAA instead of the BoT and Swarbrick.

Don't disagree, but what's the solution? Current setup is unsustainable and players and courts are finally starting to realize it.

Make the NFL pay for their own f*cking minor league system, so we can finally fix CFB.

 

[ACamp1900]

You wanna see ND win a national title again? This is how it happens. Direct your rage at the NFL and the NCAA instead of the BoT and Swarbrick.

So then we agree ND is most likely never winning another natty...??

 

[irishroo]

Most kids aren't even close to ready for the NFL 3 years removed from school. Do you really want to see college freshmen and sophomores declaring for the draft?

You're right, but that has no bearing on the argument. Rosen says it himself in the B/R article, guys are only in college because that's the only path to the NFL. Open up another path to the NFL (i.e. leave college, go to the NFL now), break the NFL's monopoly, and create a free labor market. If a player is unhappy with his "compensation," he can try to go to the NFL and get paid right now. If that's not realistic, then he's worth what someone else is willing to "pay" him, which would be a scholarship.

 

[irishroo]

You wanna see ND win a national title again? This is how it happens. Direct your rage at the NFL and the NCAA instead of the BoT and Swarbrick.



Make the NFL pay for their own f*cking minor league system, so we can finally fix CFB.

Well yeah, but why would they do that? NFL has the best of both worlds right now.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

Well yeah, but why would they do that? NFL has the best of both worlds right now.

They do. But the CTE scandal is only going to get worse, and once there are Congressional inquiries into the NFL's practices, the NCAA may suddenly rediscover the ideal of the student-athlete. That's my hope, at least.

 

[Rack Em]

They do. But the CTE scandal is only going to get worse, and once there are Congressional inquiries into the NFL's practices, the NCAA may suddenly rediscover the ideal of the student-athlete. That's my hope, at least.

 

[Domina Nostra]

They do. But the CTE scandal is only going to get worse, and once there are Congressional inquiries into the NFL's practices, the NCAA may suddenly rediscover the ideal of the student-athlete. That's my hope, at least.

And ND will have an ba-jillion $$$, 85,000 seat lacrosse field! (soccer goes the way of football, apparently)

In all honesty, I know it would be VERY different, but could football be "saved" by way of rugby tackling rules and soft helmets?

 

[arahop]

You wanna see ND win a national title again? This is how it happens. Direct your rage at the NFL and the NCAA instead of the BoT and Swarbrick.

Make the NFL pay for their own f*cking minor league system, so we can finally fix CFB.

I've been down this road before and I still say ND needs to lower academic standards. And anybody who doesn't agree needs to never bitch about not winning another Championship.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

In all honesty, I know it would be VERY different, but could football be "saved" by way of rugby tackling rules and soft helmets?

No. Absent some remarkable breakthroughs in helmet technology, I doubt football can be "saved" long-term in a form that most current fans would find compelling. By "saved", I meant pulled back from its long slide into semi-pro nihilism, back toward a model that idealizes the student athlete. I think that's the only remotely plausible scenario that sets ND up to regularly compete for national titles again, but even that would likely only be a medium-term solution.

I've been down this road before and I still say ND needs to lower academic standards. And anybody who doesn't agree needs to never bitch about not winning another Championship.

If ND took the gloves off and decided to run its football program like 'Bama and OSU, we'd be in the conversation every year and one elite coaching hire away from sustained dominance. But ND has never given the football program its head for any significant period of time (and we usually self-sanctioned afterward as a course correction). And our current admin has bluntly stated we'll never go that route. As an alum that holds two degrees from ND, I certainly don't want to see them lower standards.

 

[tussin]

What percentage of ND players have a 1000 SAT?

 

[IrishSteelhead]

You guys are severely overreacting. Just a few years ago, in 2012, we were one 30 point drive from winning a natty.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

What percentage of ND players have a 1000 SAT?

This 2015 article by Keith Arnold includes a quote from Kelly estimating that the incoming class of freshman had an average ACT of 24, which roughly translates to an SAT of 1180. So I'd guess we take few players with a sub-1000 SAT; and those that we do are probably obvious academic exceptions.

 

[IrishLax]

What percentage of ND players have a 1000 SAT?

Very few, usually there is some sort of compelling circumstance where they make an exception. I know of players who scored above 1000 being denied admission.

 

[arahop]

No. Absent some remarkable breakthroughs in helmet technology, I doubt football can be "saved" long-term in a form that most current fans would find compelling. By "saved", I meant pulled back from its long slide into semi-pro nihilism, back toward a model that idealizes the student athlete. I think that's the only remotely plausible scenario that sets ND up to regularly compete for national titles again, but even that would likely only be a medium-term solution.



If ND took the gloves off and decided to run its football program like 'Bama and OSU, we'd be in the conversation every year and one elite coaching hire away from sustained dominance. But ND has never given the football program its head for any significant period of time (and we usually self-sanctioned afterward as a course correction). And our current admin has bluntly stated we'll never go that route. As an alum that holds two degrees from ND, I certainly don't want to see them lower standards.

I respect that as I only went to Holy Cross and Indiana but Rice and Zorich were certainly exceptions. Really,99 percent of all football players that are accepted would never be able to get in on academic merit alone. Let us bend the perception of degrees a little further and face the reality that Note Dame degrees aren't going to become less valuable if a few more Rice's and Zorich's come in every year.

 

[NDRock]

You guys are severely overreacting. Just a few years ago, in 2012, we were one 30 point drive from winning a natty.

We lost the National Championship when Baylor beat Kansas State. No doubt we would have beaten KSU if they we had gotten to play them. I remember ND fans being glad we got to play Bama, I wanted the easier road.

 

[Ndaccountant]

No time for studying.....

 

[ACamp1900]

That nose got hit with all kinds of double Ds...

 

[Whiskeyjack]

Neither of those girls lips is actually touching Rosen's face. This is a strange inversion of the hover hand:

Baller status denied.

 

[ACamp1900]

There is contact being made by the black haired chick, which is all that matters...

 

[Me2SouthBend]

Is that his sister in the pool w him? Looks just like him.

 

[KizerWilhelm]

Is that his sister in the pool w him? Looks just like him.

 

[irishog77]

Is that his sister in the pool w him? Looks just like him.

Better than being in that pool with his brother?