'14 OH QB DeShone Kizer (Notre Dame Signee)

[gkIrish]

2012 had a top 10 run game. 2013 and 2014 were not great.

By what measure? I am seeing #38 in yards.

http://web1.ncaa.org/mfb/natlRank.jsp?year=2012&rpt=IA_teamrush&site=org&div=IA&dest=O

 

[IrishLax]

Only thing is we don't know who the primary and secondary reads are on that play.

Then the picket collapses.

The oline has been able to pass block this year, except for the Stanford game, he might have been hearing foot steps.


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He's looking out left before his eyes come back center. I imagine he might've assumed the safety would be helping inside (but he doesn't, he breaks outwards) giving double coverage to ESB. Play might've been designed to go outside for 1st down, if covered hit interior receiver. The other interesting thing is that an immediate dump off to Adams would've put him 1v1 in space with a defender to score.

Agree with pk that a big part of the problem is that he isn't hitting check downs. Not sure if they aren't there or he isn't looking for them or both... but he tends to hold the ball, then if something doesn't open up downfield make a play with his legs. Teams are keeping contain (there's a spy on him in the play above, too) so these end up resulting in coverage sacks.

 

[IrishLax]

By what measure? I am seeing #38 in yards.

http://web1.ncaa.org/mfb/natlRank.jsp?year=2012&rpt=IA_teamrush&site=org&div=IA&dest=O

EDIT: thought you said 2015.

2012 -- FOOTBALL OUTSIDERS: Innovative Statistics, Intelligent Analysis | 2012 NCAA S&P+ RATINGS, OFFENSE

 

[Sherm Sticky]

He's looking out left before his eyes come back center. I imagine he might've assumed the safety would be helping inside (but he doesn't, he breaks outwards) giving double coverage to ESB. Play might've been designed to go outside for 1st down, if covered hit interior receiver. The other interesting thing is that an immediate dump off to Adams would've put him 1v1 in space with a defender to score.



Agree with pk that a big part of the problem is that he isn't hitting check downs. Not sure if they aren't there or he isn't looking for them or both... but he tends to hold the ball, then if something doesn't open up downfield make a play with his legs. Teams are keeping contain (there's a spy on him in the play above, too) so these end up resulting in coverage sacks.

Agree he doesn't check down very often. He is still a relatively young QB, hopefully this is something he picks up soon.

He does hold the ball way way way to long. I would be thrilled if he threw that ball a way. Read 1 not open, read 2 not open, uhoh I feel the pocket collapsing let me throw this in the stands.


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[T Town Tommy]

If DK is uncomfortable in the pocket now, just wait till he has a 300 lb lineman who runs a 4.5 staring him down. In all fairness, I didn't play QB so I don't know what he is thinking or seeing. But he doesn't seem to have any rhythm and is obviously pressing to make the big play. In the end, I don't think he is as bad as we sometimes make him out to be. But I also don't think DK is deserving of some of the hype either. And always remember, potential does have a shelf life.

 

[Sherm Sticky]

If DK is uncomfortable in the pocket now, just wait till he has a 300 lb lineman who runs a 4.5 staring him down. In all fairness, I didn't play QB so I don't know what he is thinking or seeing. But he doesn't seem to have any rhythm and is obviously pressing to make the big play. In the end, I don't think he is as bad as we sometimes make him out to be. But I also don't think DK is deserving of some of the hype either. And always remember, potential does have a shelf life.

I keep telling myself that Kizer is only a redshirt sophomore with a total of 18 starts and is still a very young QB who is developing. His first year in the program he saw barely any reps during practice. Spring practice 2015 he probably saw a handful of reps as Zaire and Everett got majority of snaps. 2015 fall camp he got a few reps, but Zaire got the majority. This spring and this fall camp he had share reps with Zaire. Add to the fact that he didn't really go to camps and such like other top level high school QB's attend. Reason being was he was a 3 sport star, very good baseball player, and never committed to football. I keep telling myself that he has very little experience and very little first team reps, that he will continue to improve and dominant college football next season.


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[Circa]

IIRC Kiper didn't have Kizer I'm the first round until he released his updated mock after the NCST game

and?

 

[Circa]

If DK is uncomfortable in the pocket now, just wait till he has a 300 lb lineman who runs a 4.5 staring him down. In all fairness, I didn't play QB so I don't know what he is thinking or seeing. But he doesn't seem to have any rhythm and is obviously pressing to make the big play. In the end, I don't think he is as bad as we sometimes make him out to be. But I also don't think DK is deserving of some of the hype either. And always remember, potential does have a shelf life.

It's as If the press wants the hype so he doesn't succeed. He needs all the college he can get and that's not ND greed speaking.

 

[irishff1014]

I like DK but he shows no emotion and is not a vocal leader. He is supposed to have a top notch QB coach in Sanford that doesn't seem to help. He was 14-26 against Stanford. On the last drive alone he made stepherson jump for a ball that was thrown way to high,St brown had to slide to make a catch, and missed Adams open near the sideline. His second interception was a bad read.

This is Kelly's not but he needs to take some credit for the offense struggling along with Dembrock and Sanford.

 

[Irish Insanity]

and?

And you apparently did follow the chain of posts relates to the one I quoted and responded to

 

[Sherm Sticky]

I like DK but he shows no emotion and is not a vocal leader. He is supposed to have a top notch QB coach in Sanford that doesn't seem to help. He was 14-26 against Stanford. On the last drive alone he made stepherson jump for a ball that was thrown way to high,St brown had to slide to make a catch, and missed Adams open near the sideline. His second interception was a bad read.



This is Kelly's not but he needs to take some credit for the offense struggling along with Dembrock and Sanford.

I disagree that Kizer shows no emotion. I think he shows and plays with a lot of emotion.

I do think at times Kizer can be a vocal leader. I think back to the last drive at Virginia. He went up to a couple of offensive players and said something like, we got this don't worry, before the drive began.

I also, don't think you need to be vocal to be a leader.


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[Irish Insanity]

I think he's takes the failure of the season personally, as in all on him. That's why he holds it to long. That's why he's never comfortable in the pocket and tries to force most of his throws. That's why there's never a rhythm. That's why when he walks off after a bad series or turns back after a bad play he pats his chest saying 'my bad'.

 

[CrystalHead]

Has Kizer been struggling this year? Yes. Has he been awful? No. Coming off a very successful and unexpected year last season comes additional pressure AND expectations by his coach and the fan base. I get it, it comes with the job. Kizer himself has come out and said he didn't need anymore thrown at him, he has enough on his plate. I think part of the problem is Kelly has opened up the entire playbook for him. We all know the complexity of his system and the expectations he has on the QB. Kizer is doing more thinking this year compared to last. The game plan was much simpler last year because of his lack of experience. Kelly said that in the spring while defending Zaire playing catch up with the playbook. It's the classic sophomore jinx season. Kizer is fine. He is a talented QB who is going through another learning curve. You can see he is frustrated with how he's been playing. Tired of hearing comments on Wimbush can't be the starter fast enough. Kizer just needs to go to draft and start the Wimbush era. Guess what? Wimbush will experience the same success his first year with a dumbed down offense. Then the complexity of the playbook comes out the second year and people will start screaming for the Jurkovic era to begin. The complexity of Kelly's offense should be compared to the complexity of VanGorders defense. Why else do think Kelly was pro VanGorder?

 

[Irish#1]

Has Kizer been struggling this year? Yes. Has he been awful? No. Coming off a very successful and unexpected year last season comes additional pressure AND expectations by his coach and the fan base. I get it, it comes with the job. Kizer himself has come out and said he didn't need anymore thrown at him, he has enough on his plate. I think part of the problem is Kelly has opened up the entire playbook for him. We all know the complexity of his system and the expectations he has on the QB. Kizer is doing more thinking this year compared to last. The game plan was much simpler last year because of his lack of experience. Kelly said that in the spring while defending Zaire playing catch up with the playbook. It's the classic sophomore jinx season. Kizer is fine. He is a talented QB who is going through another learning curve. You can see he is frustrated with how he's been playing. Tired of hearing comments on Wimbush can't be the starter fast enough. Kizer just needs to go to draft and start the Wimbush era. Guess what? Wimbush will experience the same success his first year with a dumbed down offense. Then the complexity of the playbook comes out the second year and people will start screaming for the Jurkovic era to begin. The complexity of Kelly's offense should be compared to the complexity of VanGorders defense. Why else do think Kelly was pro VanGorder?

I think you're on target here.

 

[Wingman Ray]

2nd down sack that basically ended the game, inside receiver is open and he should let the ball go at the end of his drop. I don't understand what he could've been looking at not to throw it. Compare to the throw he made to Hunter against Texas where he got targeted... fit that in to an incredibly tight window, threw it on time. I don't understand why he is regressing.

Yeah that looks like a NFL caliber LT.

 

[IrishLion]

But besides last year when have we under BK? Not for the lack of talent

2012 had a top 10 run game. 2013 and 2014 were not great.

We did? Had no idea, ok two good years then.

The run game was pretty tits in 2011, too. Gray and Wood tore it up.

 

[CrystalHead]

I think you're on target here.

Thanks. Just think Kelly jumped the gun and threw too much at him this year. If you think about it Kizer was never suppose to see the field at ND. Now we expect him to all the sudden be the savior. Kizer is a good potentially great QB. He has put enough points on the board for us to be at worst 5-2. That's with zero running game this year and a horrific defense that got a DC fired mid season. Yea he sucks.

 

[irishff1014]

I have said numerous times that i support Kizer and think he is the best QB for this team right now. I also think he needs to stay another year and improve.

58% completion 81st
147 rating 37th
1775 yards 23rd
8.7 yards per attempt 92nd
7 INT 19th most
16 sacks tied 23rd most

I am not saying the lack of running hasn't hurt these numbers. But these need to improve.

 

[CrystalHead]

I have said numerous times that i support Kizer and think he is the best QB for this team right now. I also think he needs to stay another year and improve.

58% completion 81st
147 rating 37th
1775 yards 23rd
8.7 yards per attempt 92nd
7 INT 19th most
16 sacks tied 23rd most

I am not saying the lack of running hasn't hurt these numbers. But these need to improve.

I couldn't agree more that he needs to come back next year. I also don't think his stock has topped out at this point. I think coming back and showing he is capable of learning will only increase his draft status.

 

[Bogtrotter07]

2nd down sack that basically ended the game, inside receiver is open and he should let the ball go at the end of his drop. I don't understand what he could've been looking at not to throw it. Compare to the throw he made to Hunter against Texas where he got targeted... fit that in to an incredibly tight window, threw it on time. I don't understand why he is regressing.

The experts that watched the game said protection this past week was awful. Bars and Nelson really got beat flatfooted, and McGlinchey didn't do well, either.

That with the play selection, and I would advise Kizer to do his best, but get his boot heels wandering.

Doesn't sound like the fan base wants him, so let him go. And see if the same thing doesn't happen with the next guy in. I bet it does.

 

[Bogtrotter07]

I have said numerous times that i support Kizer and think he is the best QB for this team right now. I also think he needs to stay another year and improve.

58% completion 81st
147 rating 37th
1775 yards 23rd
8.7 yards per attempt 92nd
7 INT 19th most
16 sacks tied 23rd most

I am not saying the lack of running hasn't hurt these numbers. But these need to improve.

I understand what you are saying, but I think the chances of him staying and improving at ND, all things being equal are nearly zero.

I don't want to go back and forth, but I bet over the next couple of years, if Kelly stays, there is a lot more heartache at the quarterback spot.

 

[irishff1014]

The experts that watched the game said protection this past week was awful. Bars and Nelson really got beat flatfooted, and McGlinchey didn't do well, either.

That with the play selection, and I would advise Kizer to do his best, but get his boot heels wandering.

Doesn't sound like the fan base wants him, so let him go. And see if the same thing doesn't happen with the next guy in. I bet it does.

This play that you replied to was ruined by McGlinchey. He got flat out abused.

 

[irishff1014]

I understand what you are saying, but I think the chances of him staying and improving at ND, all things being equal are nearly zero.

I don't want to go back and forth, but I bet over the next couple of years, if Kelly stays, there is a lot more heartache at the quarterback spot.

I know you don't want to go back and forth but i do believe it's funny that last year it was Wow look what Sanford did with Zaire and Kizer. This year Kelly is terrible blah blah blah but no mention of Sanford. He's the QB coach he should be helping him learn to make better decisions.

Yes Kelly deserves his fair share of blame but it's easy to kick the man in the balls when he is already down!

 

[Bogtrotter07]

This play that you replied to was ruined by McGlinchey. He got flat out abused.

Yeah, Mike did. But from what I heard he graded out better than Nelson or Bars. Think about it!

I know you don't want to go back and forth but i do believe it's funny that last year it was Wow look what Sanford did with Zaire and Kizer. This year Kelly is terrible blah blah blah but no mention of Sanford. He's the QB coach he should be helping him learn to make better decisions.

Yes Kelly deserves his fair share of blame but it's easy to kick the man in the balls when he is already down!

I understand your point, but :

• Kelly gets paid the big bucks to see problems like BVG and get them worked out before they crumble half a season.
• Last year Sanford on his own initiative prepared Kizer to play, before Zaire got hurt, and Kelly took more than his share of credit for it. We all saw/heard that Sanford lobbied for the time and resources, when no one else advocated that.
• Remember the offensive personnel is vastly different than it was last year, however changes haven't been made in the play selection for the offence to adapt until what? The last week or so? Who is that about?
• Kelly has overridden the play calling selection, or maybe it is Mike Denbrock, I don't care; but Sanford ran the offensive game at BSU and it is a lot different than the influence he has been allowed at ND!

PS. I respect the civil way you are engaging this situation!

 

[irishff1014]

Yeah, Mike did. But from what I heard he graded out better than Nelson or Bars. Think about it!



I understand your point, but :

• 
  [*]Kelly gets paid the big bucks to see problems like BVG and get them worked out before they crumble half a season.
• Last year Sanford on his own initiative prepared Kizer to play, before Zaire got hurt, and Kelly took more than his share of credit for it. We all saw/heard that Sanford lobbied for the time and resources, when no one else advocated that.
• Remember the offensive personnel is vastly different than it was last year, however changes haven't been made in the play selection for the offence to adapt until what? The last week or so? Who is that about?
• Kelly has overridden the play calling selection, or maybe it is Mike Denbrock, I don't care; but Sanford ran the offensive game at BSU and it is a lot different than the influence he has been allowed at ND!

PS. I respect the civil way you are engaging this situation!

I understand your points too. There is enough blame for everyone to take some. And i understand the Kelly is the head coach and he shoulders all the blame.

I honestly think if he would have canned BVG our season would look much different. Also i still believe that Booker needs to leave along with Longo.

 

[BobbyMac]

Hard to grasp that.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Stats without context:<br>If DeShone Kizer wins his next 13 starts at Notre Dame he will have the same career record as Tommy Rees.</p>— Irish Illustrated (@PeteSampson_) <a href="https://twitter.com/PeteSampson_/status/788824037900201987">October 19, 2016</a></blockquote> <script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[Sherm Sticky]

Yeah that looks like a NFL caliber LT.

I'm shocked at how poor Mike and Q have played his year.

Hard to grasp that.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" d...ter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Wow! Have to respect all Tommy accomplished with the lack of physical traits he had.



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[ThePiombino]

I'm shocked at how poor Mike and Q have played his year.




Wow! Have to respect all Tommy accomplished with the lack of physical traits he had.



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Do you think his record would be better than Kizer's if he had Kizer's defenses?

 

[Sherm Sticky]

Do you think his record would be better than Kizer's if he had Kizer's defenses?

Can't say honestly. To be fair Tommy played in a lot of games. Started in two full seasons, started 4 games his freshman year, started at least 1 game in 2012 and made many relief appearances.

None the less Tommy won a lot of games with minimal physical talent. Not to mention he likes to punk the police.


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[ND Fan Vancouver]

Take this for what it is, just something I read on "inside the gug" forum on 247. I won't quote it as its not allowed but a poster with a big posting history said that they sat in front of Kizer's parents at the game yesterday and that his parents, very nice people, said they want DeShone to come back to ND next year but they think/expect him to go to the NFL.

Just posting what I just read. Take it for what it is.