'12 IN QB Gunner Kiel (Cincinnati Transfer)

[sharksamardzija8345]

This is what was said: "If he went to Michigan I would be utterly shocked and it would an amazing feet of BS and negative recruiting because they have Shane Morris coming in next year and it makes no sense for him to go there over Notre Dame. This is clearly Michigan just trying to play keep away."

I responded that he's not afraid of competition and stated that he'd have to pass 3 qb's on our roster. I realize they're not as good as Denard, Gardner, and Morris, but that's not the point. And if I was looking through green-tinted glasses, how would that make me a troll? If Gunner came to ND, I would be happy, but if he doesn't ascend to #1 on the depth chart, he would probably be redshirted. As the #1 QB in his class, he might not like that. Also, if he ascends to #1, we'd probably never be able to see what Everett can do in this offense. Whatever, I don't care, this is why I try not to comment in recruiting threads. Just wanted to clarify that I am most certainly not a troll.

you're not a troll my man

 

[AKASnoop]

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/mH2u5ZsCGEw" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Yes a great play, but a fluke. That doesn't take away from how good of a QB he is, but he should have caught the snap and the ball is tossed then flutters like a wounded duck. That is an INT in college.

 

[t3hjc]

It was an awful snap. What on Earth are you talking about?

 

[BGIF]

Yes a great play, but a fluke. That doesn't take away from how good of a QB he is, but he should have caught the snap and the ball is tossed then flutters like a wounded duck. That is an INT in college.

A fluke? Really? You don't think they practice that play as drawn up in the playbook?

No? Then why do you say he should have caught the wild snap?

It was 3rd and 11 from the opponents 22. The snap was 11 o'clock HIGH AND WIDE. He extended and got a hand on an errant snap. He focused on the ball as it flew around his body 180 degrees to the other side. The ball bounced on the ground, he bent over and snatched it on the fly but his body was now turned so his throwing side was parallel to the line of scrimmage. The only man he could see to throw the ball to at this point was the Head Linesman.

He pivoted clockwise trying to square up while he sidestepped 3 shuffles to the the right, away from the 3 charging defenders. Have you been counting Mississippi's? I make it near 5 - SACK TIME! But it wasn't a sack he, his blockers, and a no quit receiver turned into 6 points.


"That was an INT in college." Really? Throwing to an open spot at the end line away from the cluster of players, well over the leap of the nearest defender?

Did you expect him to throw a rope? If he had, the defender would NOT have had to leap to try to make an INT. The loft was AND needed and provided to clear that DB.


And if we're going to conjecture that the DBs are quicker in college and would have closed faster, I'll conjecture that a college QB is stronger and quicker as well. But he's still not going to field a wild snap at 11 o'clock WIDE - flawlessly.


Your complaint sounds like you were on the other team.

 

[Who'saWildManNow]

wtf? how am I a troll? Someone said they would be shocked if he went to Michigan. I wouldn't be that surprised because he would pretty much just be competing with Morris (Gardner's not a great pro-style qb). Obviously, I would hate for that to happen but it's a possibility, while due to sheer numbers, he would have harder competition at ND.

Robinson will be back next year, Gardner has looked very good and was a big time recruit, and Morris might be next year's class' best QB. How is that comparable to competing against Rees, Golson and Hendrix? If you take off those green-tinted glasses, you might see that our QB situation is not as good as scUm's. It sucks, but it's true.

Rees's - That's a cool clip. It's the first time I have seen that one. Is it just a coincidence that our qb's lose that ball and watch as the other team returns it for a td? lol.

I think Gunner is ND bound, but like mack, I would not be shocked if he picked Michigan. I don't think it's a statement made with green-tinted glasses. Denard is really not an issue, being that he will be gone next year. Gunner could have honored his pledge to IU if his main concern was starting right out of the gate.

In 2013 he'd be competing against Gardner, Morris and a possible 2012 recruit. Why do you think Gardner has looked very good? He's 8-16 passing with 44 rushing yards and an interception. Both he and Shane Morris have the build and high-school accolades but Devin has shown little to nothing so far and Shane is right where Gunner is, in terms of college experience. When Denard leaves there may be QBs with eligibility but how much game time experience will they have? From Gunner's standpoint he's competing against recruiting stars.

I just don't think it's that much more of a difficult depth chart to climb through than ours.. Just a different type of challenge.

At ND, assuming he sits his freshman year, he'll compete against Rees, Hendrix and Golson, with Rees having 2 years of eligibility and Hendrix and Golson even more.

Rees will be the experienced one. He may not have the physical attributes but he will have invaluable experience and the most rapport with the offense. In 2013, Michigan will not have that in Gardner.

Hendrix, to me, is the wild card. He came to ND with the least amount of football experience. He is obviously athletic but hasn't had the opportunity to really prove himself.

Golson is similar to Hendrix in regards to proving himself, but he is the BK pick. Everett is the QB that coach needs to fully utilize his playbook. Will he be able to pick it up? Will he have.. it? Who knows?

Like I said, I think Gunner ends up being Irish and probably sees our depth chart as a little bit more opportunistic but not terribly more than the skunkbears'.

At the very least, he will be coming in as the only QB in ND's 2012 class.

 

[BGIF]

...

At ND, assuming he sits his freshman year, he'll compete against Rees, Hendrix and Golson, with Rees having 2 years of eligibility and Hendrix and Golson even more.

...

Rees has already used 2 years of eligibility, '10 and '11. Unless he sits out '12, '13 would be his final season.

Hendrix played in '11. Unless he sits out '12, he would have 2 left counting '13.

Only Golson would have more at this point.

 

[NDinFL]

Excellent post WildMan,

A couple things I disagree with though:

Tommy may be the experienced one of this roster, but what if, by some chance Everett or Andrew "learn" the playbook?

You are 100% correct that Tommy is the most experienced, but what happens when the more physically gifted QB's catch up to him?

IMHO I think this is bigger than a "depth chart" thing...

I think it's a "You are the type of QB we need" kind of thing

EDIT: when I say "learn the playbook" or "catch up" I don't think it will happen this season

 

[phork]

Yes a great play, but a fluke. That doesn't take away from how good of a QB he is, but he should have caught the snap and the ball is tossed then flutters like a wounded duck. That is an INT in college.

The only fluke part is the Denardian bounce he got with the straight bounce.

 

[woolybug25]

I think Gunner is ND bound, but like mack, I would not be shocked if he picked Michigan. I don't think it's a statement made with green-tinted glasses. Denard is really not an issue, being that he will be gone next year. Gunner could have honored his pledge to IU if his main concern was starting right out of the gate.

In 2013 he'd be competing against Gardner, Morris and a possible 2012 recruit. Why do you think Gardner has looked very good? He's 8-16 passing with 44 rushing yards and an interception. Both he and Shane Morris have the build and high-school accolades but Devin has shown little to nothing so far and Shane is right where Gunner is, in terms of college experience. When Denard leaves there may be QBs with eligibility but how much game time experience will they have? From Gunner's standpoint he's competing against recruiting stars.

I just don't think it's that much more of a difficult depth chart to climb through than ours.. Just a different type of challenge.

At ND, assuming he sits his freshman year, he'll compete against Rees, Hendrix and Golson, with Rees having 2 years of eligibility and Hendrix and Golson even more.

Rees will be the experienced one. He may not have the physical attributes but he will have invaluable experience and the most rapport with the offense. In 2013, Michigan will not have that in Gardner.

Hendrix, to me, is the wild card. He came to ND with the least amount of football experience. He is obviously athletic but hasn't had the opportunity to really prove himself.

Golson is similar to Hendrix in regards to proving himself, but he is the BK pick. Everett is the QB that coach needs to fully utilize his playbook. Will he be able to pick it up? Will he have.. it? Who knows?

Like I said, I think Gunner ends up being Irish and probably sees our depth chart as a little bit more opportunistic but not terribly more than the skunkbears'.

At the very least, he will be coming in as the only QB in ND's 2012 class.

Gardner also made the go ahead touchdown against NW, and is widely considered the heir apparent to Denard. He is somewhere between Denard and Morris skill set wise, so he will be a better fit for Hoke as well. He is better skill-set wise than Hendrix at this point.

Golson hasn't played a single snap yet, so how can anyone say that he will be more difficult to pass than Morris.

Finally, and not to use recruiting rankings as a standard, but Kiel is much higher rated than every single one of our qb's that will be on the roster when he would get to town. But at Michigan, he wouldn't be beating out Robinson as a freshmen, and would then be left to compete with two guys that were ranked as #1 QB's out of high school. Who knows who they end up with for 2013 as well.

Devin Gardner - Yahoo! Sports
Shane Morris - Yahoo! Sports (not ranked yet, but widely presumed to be the best QB in the class)

 

[UmphreakDomer]

quick question: any word on if gunner is going to enroll early?

 

[AdmiralBackhand]

quick question: any word on if gunner is going to enroll early?

I think it was discussed before and the consensus was that he would. I could be wrong. He is not at the top of my list. (Although I feel a little better about him taking a scholly now that Perkins left)

 

[GoldenIsThyFame]

quick question: any word on if gunner is going to enroll early?

Yes he will EE wherever he goes.

 

[woolybug25]

I think it was discussed before and the consensus was that he would. I could be wrong. He is not at the top of my list. (Although I feel a little better about him taking a scholly now that Perkins left)

The Hell You Say....

 

[AdmiralBackhand]

The Hell You Say....

Not even number two on my list.

 

[Buster Bluth]

Yes a great play, but a fluke. That doesn't take away from how good of a QB he is, but he should have caught the snap and the ball is tossed then flutters like a wounded duck. That is an INT in college.

A fluke? Really? You don't think they practice that play as drawn up in the playbook?

No? Then why do you say he should have caught the wild snap?

It was 3rd and 11 from the opponents 22. The snap was 11 o'clock HIGH AND WIDE. He extended and got a hand on an errant snap. He focused on the ball as it flew around his body 180 degrees to the other side. The ball bounced on the ground, he bent over and snatched it on the fly but his body was now turned so his throwing side was parallel to the line of scrimmage. The only man he could see to throw the ball to at this point was the Head Linesman.

He pivoted clockwise trying to square up while he sidestepped 3 shuffles to the the right, away from the 3 charging defenders. Have you been counting Mississippi's? I make it near 5 - SACK TIME! But it wasn't a sack he, his blockers, and a no quit receiver turned into 6 points.


"That was an INT in college." Really? Throwing to an open spot at the end line away from the cluster of players, well over the leap of the nearest defender?

Did you expect him to throw a rope? If he had, the defender would NOT have had to leap to try to make an INT. The loft was AND needed and provided to clear that DB.


And if we're going to conjecture that the DBs are quicker in college and would have closed faster, I'll conjecture that a college QB is stronger and quicker as well. But he's still not going to field a wild snap at 11 o'clock WIDE - flawlessly.


Your complaint sounds like you were on the other team.

Boom.

 

[CanadianIrish]

Gunner is at the very top of my list right now, QB play the last two years has been dreadful, and we need a top tier QB for the future. It would probably increase odds with some of the offensive guys we have left on the board as well.

If he's going to EE, he's got to make up his mind quickly. Anyone know if he has a timeframe in mind?

 

[woolybug25]

Not even number two on my list.

 

[anarin]

I think it was discussed before and the consensus was that he would. I could be wrong. He is not at the top of my list. (Although I feel a little better about him taking a scholly now that Perkins left)

I would agree with this.

 

[t3hjc]

Gunner is at the very top of my list right now, QB play the last two years has been dreadful, and we need a top tier QB for the future. It would probably increase odds with some of the offensive guys we have left on the board as well.

If he's going to EE, he's got to make up his mind quickly. Anyone know if he has a timeframe in mind?

Dreadful? Really?

It's disgusting how spoiled some of this fan base is.

 

[Domina Nostra]

I don't have a clear #1 on my list since needs are needs and we have to fill them all.

That said, I think he committing soon would be the best thing that could happen to our recruiting class right now. Teams need leaders, and QBs are those leaders. A top-tier QB giving ND its vote of confidence would be huge.

As far as the ND v. Michigan playing time argument, I think that the argument can go either way. The problem Michigan has is that they are Michigan, and Gunner will have to live with the shame of being a "Michigan man" the rest of his life. For goodness sake, don't do it.

ND's QB situation has not been dreadful. Dreadful was 2007. I remember thinking in 2009 that Crist will inevitably dissappoint. Clausen was just so accurate and poied, even compared to Quinn. He just did not make very many bonehead throws. The bar was set very high. "Insanely frustrating" is how I would describe this year- 90% beauty followed by 10% ridiculous.

 

[Who'saWildManNow]

Rees has already used 2 years of eligibility, '10 and '11. Unless he sits out '12, '13 would be his final season.

Hendrix played in '11. Unless he sits out '12, he would have 2 left counting '13.

Only Golson would have more at this point.

Excellent post WildMan,

A couple things I disagree with though:

Tommy may be the experienced one of this roster, but what if, by some chance Everett or Andrew "learn" the playbook?

You are 100% correct that Tommy is the most experienced, but what happens when the more physically gifted QB's catch up to him?

IMHO I think this is bigger than a "depth chart" thing...

I think it's a "You are the type of QB we need" kind of thing

EDIT: when I say "learn the playbook" or "catch up" I don't think it will happen this season

Gardner also made the go ahead touchdown against NW, and is widely considered the heir apparent to Denard. He is somewhere between Denard and Morris skill set wise, so he will be a better fit for Hoke as well. He is better skill-set wise than Hendrix at this point.

Golson hasn't played a single snap yet, so how can anyone say that he will be more difficult to pass than Morris.

Finally, and not to use recruiting rankings as a standard, but Kiel is much higher rated than every single one of our qb's that will be on the roster when he would get to town. But at Michigan, he wouldn't be beating out Robinson as a freshmen, and would then be left to compete with two guys that were ranked as #1 QB's out of high school. Who knows who they end up with for 2013 as well.

Devin Gardner - Yahoo! Sports
Shane Morris - Yahoo! Sports (not ranked yet, but widely presumed to be the best QB in the class)

Thanks BGIF, I botched that up.

NDinFL, I love Tommy but I can't wait and really hope that the more gifted QBs catch up and eventually surpass him.. whether that be Hendrix, Golson... or Gunner. It's just the truth that any one of those QBs would wipe the cob webs off the other half of BKs playbook.

Wooly, it is your reasoning why I think Gunner chooses ND. I just didn't think it was too far fetched of an idea for him to pick Michigan.

 

[DonnieNarco]

Dreadful? Really?

It's disgusting how spoiled some of this fan base is.

It's disgusting how content with mediocrity some of this fanbase is. Championship teams need either their QB to be a great leader or need to have a phenomenal defense.

 

[woolybug25]

Wooly, it is your reasoning why I think Gunner chooses ND. I just didn't think it was too far fetched of an idea for him to pick Michigan.

I don't think that he will be overly concerned with any depth chart, I think he would be more concerned if a team planned on taking another QB in this class (he said this himself, actually). I just disagree that scUM's QB situation is better for an incoming recruit.

I think he will choose ND for many of the same reasons he initially chose IU. Close to home, family connection, opportunity to change a program and comfortably with the school itself. All of the other schools that he is considering (including scUM), are inferior to ND in these aspects, imo. I think scUM has a legit interest in Kiel, but from how their staff is approaching it, in addition to their fan's viewpoint on their level of recruitment of him, I really don't see them as a serious contender for his services.

I honestly feel like he is talking to coaches and going on visits in order to be absolutely sure, but the decision has already been made.

 

[KPENN]

It's disgusting how content with mediocrity some of this fanbase is. Championship teams need either their QB to be a great leader or need to have a phenomenal defense.

Tommy has been good. While he isn't elite saying he's been dreadful is f*ckin stupid. Stephen Garcia was dreadful, Tommy is good not dreadful.

 

[anarin]

Tommy has been good. While he isn't elite saying he's been dreadful is f*ckin stupid. Stephen Garcia was dreadful, Tommy is good not dreadful.

I'll see your "good" and raise you an "average"

 

[irish4ever]

I'll see your "good" and raise you an "average"

I'll back your ante. He'd be "good" if he could avoid his Turnover Tommy spells!

 

[BeauBenken]

I'll see your "good" and raise you an "average"

Nah. I'd stick with good. Tommy is the ND leader in completion percentage for a sophomore.

 

[phork]

I have an inside source that says he will be committing before the end of the year!

 

[WhoDeyIrish]

I'll back your ante. He'd be "good" if he could avoid his Turnover Tommy spells!

You just stated the exact reason he hasn't been "good"

At times he has looked great. It's all about consistency and he hasn't been consistent. If he were more consistent this year I'd say he would be having a good year.

 

[BeauBenken]

I have an inside source that says he will be committing before the end of the year!

...for real?