Spring Practice Thread 2012

[tommyIRISH23]

First off I hesitate to get into these types of discussions usually, but I think ya'll hit on an interesting point. Let the best man play. But what defines "best?" Is it throwing the ball? Running the spread? Minimizing errors? Control of the offense? Command of the playbook? I think we would all agree "best" is the individual that can show us the Ws, but there are more than one way to skin that cat.

The issue we have is that we have several different qbs that bring to the table different qualities and skill sets. What a rough spot to be in as a coach! It seems to me that it would be really difficulty to choose the best player for the job when Tommy has the greatest mastery of the playbook, reads, LOS calls etc... yet also displays the lowest "ceiling" of the 4 (allegedly). Coach obviously can't start a QB that cannot run the offense semi-efficiently at college speed, but can he afford to give Tommy any more minutes, and by doing so effectively retard the growth and developments for the others?

To me is seems we are stuck between a rock and a hard place. Ideally one of two things will happen (I honestly don't care much which): 1) Tommy will progress and win by virtue of his experience, knowledge and work ethic OR 2) one of the up-and-comers will step up big time and show Coach something that will inspire Kelly to invest in him the future of our offense.

Either way all I want is a solid TD:INT ratio and a 65% redzone TD percentage, I don't care if it's Tommy or Heistand under center. Moral of the story is that I do not envy Kelly the decision, and thank God I have confidence in him and his staff to make the best choice for the program.

I don't doubt that we have seen Tommy's physical peak. Though, he may be more comfortable just tucking and running for a few yards this year. But, for all intensive purposes its safe to assume he didn't adopt Jimmy Clausen's arm over the last few months.

But, what I do expect, and feel comfortable predicting is that Tommy has definetly grown mentally as a football player. I expect him to be a lot more proficient at reading defenses, and running the offense in terms of a conceptual understanding of what he see's and what options he has when defenses give certain looks. He has proven to be intelligent, and an exceptionally hard worker so expecting him to beable to run the offense more smoothly isn't all that crazy.

I am by no means calling for him to start next season, but I don't necessarily think it will be the end of the world. I think that Golson and Hendrix (if they can understand the play book) add a whole other dimension to our offense with their arms and feet. They can make "something out of nothing" which would help our young recievers tremendously next season as defenses will have to prepare for a dual threat QB.

I am still in the Golson camp. I think he'll step up and take the reigns.

 

[stlnd01]

For the love of God, the phrase is "for all intents and purposes." I've read it wrong I think three times in the last 20 posts.

Back to the topic at hand.
I think we know what Rees is. If neither Hendrix nor Golson can manage to take the reins and unseat him, at this point that's on them as much as it is on Kelly.
And I doubt Kiel really gives us the best chance to win two out of three against Michigan, MSU and Stanford in the first half of this season, which is how I'm defining success at the moment. At best he's a mop-up/backup this year.
Someone's is going to have to win this QB job. Rees isn't just going to hand it over, and he shouldn't.

 

[woolybug25]

For the love of God, the phrase is "for all intents and purposes." I've read it wrong I think three times in the last 20 posts.

nerd

I don't doubt that we have seen Tommy's physical peak.

I don't know why this is a foregone conclusion. He has obviously added weight in the offseason. People forget that this kid just turned 20 in May. I didn't reach my physical prime until 22-23. Scottie Pippen grew from 6'1 to 6'8 between his freshman to senior year. David Robinson (god bless ya) grew from 5'7 his junior year of high school to 7'0 by his senior year at the Naval Academy.

Tommy is currently 6'2/210. That's not bad size for a QB. It's not like Tom Brady and Peyton Manning are physical specimens. Tommy played well before a kid of his physical abilities should have ever played. Kelly saw something he could develop in Rees, and while I am still hoping for Golson to emerge, I will let Kelly decide if Rees is molding into the player he thought he could become.

 

[Buster Bluth]

I know remedial reading isn't a pre-req for OSU, but dang....


I kid.

reps hahah

 

[Patulski]

I think that Golson and Hendrix (if they can understand the play book).

If Hendrix, by his Junior year, and Golson by his sophomore year can't understand the playbook either (a) the playbook is too complex, or (b) they deserve to ride the pine. This is for Kelly to decide, but it should me a non issue in my opinion.

 

[BobD]

I don't like how much the coach and us talk about "understanding the playbook".

This is Notre Dame not Florida. If you have a scholarship, you better damned well be able to learn the playbook. With our standards we should never be talking about understanding, just execution IMO.

 

[woolybug25]

I don't like how much the coach and us talk about "understanding the playbook".

This is Notre Dame not Florida. If you have a scholarship, you better damned well be able to learn the playbook. With our standards we should never be talking about understanding, just execution IMO.

I'm with you Bob. Kelly has clearly stated that he is "dumbing down" the playbook. No one is going to be swimming in the playbook come fall. He wants to put them all on the same page from that standpoint, so I hope people can quit talking about whether one of the QB's is going to get the playbook or not. Every QB on our roster will have this limited playbook down by the time fall rolls around.

 

[irishog77]

I don't like how much the coach and us talk about "understanding the playbook".

This is Notre Dame not Florida. If you have a scholarship, you better damned well be able to learn the playbook. With our standards we should never be talking about understanding, just execution IMO.

I'm with you Bob. Kelly has clearly stated that he is "dumbing down" the playbook. No one is going to be swimming in the playbook come fall. He wants to put them all on the same page from that standpoint, so I hope people can quit talking about whether one of the QB's is going to get the playbook or not. Every QB on our roster will have this limited playbook down by the time fall rolls around.

Spoutin' sum truff, fellas.

I realize asking a QB to understand the playbook is a different animal than asking, say a CB, to understand the playbook, and there may be a couple individual exceptions, but by and large, if players aren't understanding the playbook...then it seems like it may be a "playbook" problem, and not a "player" problem.

 

[NDdomer2]

Not only that, but Kelly needs to realize on a swing pass to throw forward,never backward.
But I don't disagree with you on Tommy Turnover.

Just a guess, but Kelly is very aware. He isn't the one throwing the ball.

 

[Buster Bluth]

Not only that, but Kelly needs to realize on a swing pass to throw forward,never backward.

Stuff like this always makes me laugh.

Do you really think Brian Kelly doesn't know that? Really??

 

[TheSunIsRising]

Stuff like this always makes me laugh.

Do you really think Brian Kelly doesn't know that? Really??

He may not. I'm not sure that he' a member of any message boards, so maybe he doesn't know some of this stuff.

(probably didn't need the italics)

 

[Irish4Life09]

Stuff like this always makes me laugh.

Do you really think Brian Kelly doesn't know that? Really??

I'm glad I could make you laugh Buster.
the truth is that if you look at every single swing pass generally they are all thrown behind the line of scrimmage...that comes down to the coach.the qb is at fault, but it is up to the coach to fix the problem.

 

[BeauBenken]

I'm glad I could make you laugh Buster.
the truth is that if you look at every single swing pass generally they are all thrown behind the line of scrimmage...that comes down to the coach.the qb is at fault, but it is up to the coach to fix the problem.

I guarantee every coach on our staff gets upset every single time they see the swing thrown as a lateral. I can't believe you didn't even say anything about the RB, the guy who is running the route, being at fault.

 

[DillonHall]

I don't like how much the coach and us talk about "understanding the playbook".

This is Notre Dame not Florida. If you have a scholarship, you better damned well be able to learn the playbook. With our standards we should never be talking about understanding, just execution IMO.

I don't know what all the QBs are studying, but Hendrix is pre-med. I personally commend him for trying to get into medical school on top of playing football. With our standards come the commitment to education; they need to spend a much greater amount of time on schoolwork compared to football players at other schools.

 

[sharksamardzija8345]

I agree with Kelly dumbing down the playbook.. hell, Cam Newton can't even tie his own shoes but he understands football enough to be pretty good.. he couldn't even call ONE PLAY for Gruden in that QB Camp series he did last year, but somehow managed to put together a hell of a year in his NFL rookie campaign.. let the athletes play, IMO and that points to Golson

 

[Sherm Sticky]

I agree with Kelly dumbing down the playbook.. hell, Cam Newton can't even tie his own shoes but he understands football enough to be pretty good.. he couldn't even call ONE PLAY for Gruden in that QB Camp series he did last year, but somehow managed to put together a hell of a year in his NFL rookie campaign.. let the athletes play, IMO and that points to Golson

Are you implying that Golson is dumb?

 

[NDinFL]

nerd



I don't know why this is a foregone conclusion. He has obviously added weight in the offseason. People forget that this kid just turned 20 in May. I didn't reach my physical prime until 22-23. Scottie Pippen grew from 6'1 to 6'8 between his freshman to senior year. David Robinson (god bless ya) grew from 5'7 his junior year of high school to 7'0 by his senior year at the Naval Academy.

Tommy is currently 6'2/210. That's not bad size for a QB. It's not like Tom Brady and Peyton Manning are physical specimens. Tommy played well before a kid of his physical abilities should have ever played. Kelly saw something he could develop in Rees, and while I am still hoping for Golson to emerge, I will let Kelly decide if Rees is molding into the player he thought he could become.

hwhateve

So you just compared Tommy Rees to Scottie Pippen and David Robinson.....?

I get it, Tommy is growing and putting weight on etc.... The only thing is, you don't "grow in to" dual-threat speed....

 

[sharksamardzija8345]

Are you implying that Golson is dumb?

lol, that wasn't quite the comparison I was going for.. more of an athletic/improvise type compliment given to Golson ala Cam Newton.. but I think the point of my post is pretty true, just let the guy go out there and make plays, he doesn't need to be 100% comfortable with the entire playbook to be able to move the ball and put points on the board

 

[woolybug25]

hwhateve

So you just compared Tommy Rees to Scottie Pippen and David Robinson.....?

I get it, Tommy is growing and putting weight on etc.... The only thing is, you don't "grow in to" dual-threat speed....

I don't think Tommy needs to turn into a dual threat QB. Tony Pike wasn't a dual threat. Having a dual threat is a myth in Kelly's offense. He needs a kid that can move outside of the pocket, but Kelly never had a true dual threat (Collaros was probably the closest).

I'm not rallying for Tommy, but I think the rumors of his demise have been greatly exaggerated.

 

[Domer4ever]

Here is a scenario that very likely could unfold-

What if none of the four QB's distinguishes themselves from the pack?

At that point, I would almost think Kelly should do what USC did with Matt Barkley and just start the young kid in Kiel, who is undoubtedly the most talented of the four and has the most upside. Gunner Kiel is going to be a rock star and does anybody not think he has the best opportunity to take this program to where it needs to be long term? Let the kid get in there, learn, and take his lumps for the long term good of the program. I would rather see the team have another mediocre season with Kiel starting and gaining experience than I would seeing the same starting Rees or Hendrix.

 

[alohagoirish]

Some of the hopeful expectations about Tommy Rees in 2012 seem to inexplicably forget the entire 2011 season.

The offense for REES was FLOYD/EIFERT/JONES/TOMA---the lead RB was WOOD--the two man was JONAS---The offensive line wll have TWO CHANGES but be similar.---

What do the proponents of REES, who see him as an improved player best equipped to start 2012, expect from the 2012 offense that was different from 2011?

All i can garner is less turnovers--less redzone turnovers.

The offense simply CANNOT change much with Rees as the triggerman. Tommy damn well better be improved simply to duplicate last season because he will have to find the whopping 100 catches from Floyd someplace other then EIFERT who already had near 70 last season.

If we assume tommy has had this "improvement"--and cuts his picks in half--cuts his endzone picks in half---is strong enough now to stand in the pocket without going down from a strong breeze---and does a better job of finding the open man. If we ASSUME ALL THAT--which is alot in itself---that still leaves the offense looking scarily like the one that was on the field at FSU after floyd left. Stop the run and let Rees struggle with short stuff.

An offense that cannot go over the top with any real consistent threat--an offense where the QB's best asset is not extending plays or turning it up and running but rather the complete opposite, getting it out very quick with short stuff.

Without a STAR WR---Without a true threat to run from the QB spot---with only eifert & wood---there is ABSOLUTELY NOTHING DYNAMIC POSSIBLE from this offense---

All the talk of interchangeable RB's & SRs turn into just alot of substitutions and not much more if the QB cannot run with gusto.

Defenses will all simply use last years defense which made Tommy struggle in so so many games---PITT/WAKE/USC/MARYLAND/STANFORD/FSU---as the season wore on defenses just had a PAT BOOK on REES & the ND offense.

With a running QB with a VERTICAL PASSING GAME--- EVERYTHING CHANGES --With Tommy even if we accept big time improvement ( thats problematic in itself)--there is nothing much new for the ND offense--and a big obstacle to overcome in the lost of ND LEGEND MICAHEL FLOYD.

Maybe starting Rees isn't exactly self-immolation by the staff--but it certainly is settling for the same offensive production as 2011----Tommy's improved turnovers weighing against the 100 catches & defensive disruption lost by floyd's graduation.

Seems like a losing bet to me.

 

[woolybug25]

Here is a scenario that very likely could unfold-

What if none of the four QB's distinguishes themselves from the pack?

At that point, I would almost think Kelly should do what USC did with Matt Barkley and just start the young kid in Kiel, who is undoubtedly the most talented of the four and has the most upside. Gunner Kiel is going to be a rock star and does anybody not think he has the best opportunity to take this program to where it needs to be long term? Let the kid get in there, learn, and take his lumps for the long term good of the program. I would rather see the team have another mediocre season with Kiel starting and gaining experience than I would seeing the same starting Rees or Hendrix.

Right on point, sir. That is exactly what I have been saying. I kinda of shot myself in the foot with my earlier man-crush on Kiel, so now when I voice the reasoning behind him starting, people assume that I am being facetious.

I look at it like this. If all QB's are put on the same playing field regarding responsibilities and playbook, play the best player. If starting Rees makes us a 9 win team instead of the 8 wins the others provide, do it. If Kelly truly believes that he can win the same amount of games with any of them, then play Kiel. I understand the need of our fanbase to want instant gratification regarding our QB play, but if Hendix/Golson do not separate themselves in playmaking ability from the group, then we would be simply starting them because of potential. If we decide to start a kid based on future potential, then there is no QB on our roster with more potential than Kiel.

 

[HereComeTheIrish]

Right on point, sir. That is exactly what I have been saying. I kinda of shot myself in the foot with my earlier man-crush on Kiel, so now when I voice the reasoning behind him starting, people assume that I am being facetious.

I look at it like this. If all QB's are put on the same playing field regarding responsibilities and playbook, play the best player. If starting Rees makes us a 9 win team instead of the 8 wins the others provide, do it. If Kelly truly believes that he can win the same amount of games with any of them, then play Kiel. I understand the need of our fanbase to want instant gratification regarding our QB play, but if Hendix/Golson do not separate themselves in playmaking ability from the group, then we would be simply starting them because of potential. If we decide to start a kid based on future potential, then there is no QB on our roster with more potential than Kiel.

Spot on...

 

[Zbi]

Here is a scenario that very likely could unfold-

What if none of the four QB's distinguishes themselves from the pack?

At that point, I would almost think Kelly should do what USC did with Matt Barkley and just start the young kid in Kiel, who is undoubtedly the most talented of the four and has the most upside. Gunner Kiel is going to be a rock star and does anybody not think he has the best opportunity to take this program to where it needs to be long term? Let the kid get in there, learn, and take his lumps for the long term good of the program. I would rather see the team have another mediocre season with Kiel starting and gaining experience than I would seeing the same starting Rees or Hendrix.

100% agree. I rather throw Kiel into the fire than watch another year of Tommy Rees starting. If the offense looks like it did last year, its because we are starting a freshman, not because we got a guy that cannot get the ball down field. We need to get the run game going and take pressure off of whoever will be starting.

 

[TerryTate]

Right on point, sir. That is exactly what I have been saying. I kinda of shot myself in the foot with my earlier man-crush on Kiel, so now when I voice the reasoning behind him starting, people assume that I am being facetious.

I look at it like this. If all QB's are put on the same playing field regarding responsibilities and playbook, play the best player. If starting Rees makes us a 9 win team instead of the 8 wins the others provide, do it. If Kelly truly believes that he can win the same amount of games with any of them, then play Kiel. I understand the need of our fanbase to want instant gratification regarding our QB play, but if Hendix/Golson do not separate themselves in playmaking ability from the group, then we would be simply starting them because of potential. If we decide to start a kid based on future potential, then there is no QB on our roster with more potential than Kiel.

Your **** don't stink.

To add on here, Kelly knows he has to win this year. He knows the fan base is upset. He knows there are expectations going into year 3. He knows that the turnovers turned into a comedy show. He knows the fire that will be under his *** if the team underperforms this year. He will make the most informed and responsible decision based on the evaluations this spring and summer.

We just have hope Golson and/or Hendrix make it a clear choice.

 

[Domer4ever]

Your **** don't stink.

To add on here, Kelly knows he has to win this year. He knows the fan base is upset. He knows there are expectations going into year 3. He knows that the turnovers turned into a comedy show. He knows the fire that will be under his *** if the team underperforms this year. He will make the most informed and responsible decision based on the evaluations this spring and summer.

We just have hope Golson and/or Hendrix make it a clear choice.

Hopefully it's not the same "informed and responsible" decision making that led him to pull his starting QB after the first half of the season after anointing him his starter for the season a mere week or so earlier. Here is to hoping Kelly get's it right this time and they aren't playing musical QB's all year long. Just another reason I would rather see Kiel in there from the beginning, essentially ending the yearly QB melodrama.

 

[arahop]

I personally dislike a two quarterback system. It seems to have more cons than it does pros. Tommy Rees is not the quality of starting QB that should be starting for ND. ND needs an athletic QB, that has a big arm to stretch the field. Tommy does not have either other those things. Tommy Rees is not the guy to run BK's offense like he wants to run it.

Alabama and LSU had major QB questions and played 2 Qb's last year. Their seasons' turned out ok.

 

[Zbi]

Alabama and LSU had major QB questions and played 2 Qb's last year. Their seasons' turned out ok.

Best two defensive teams in the nation. Both offenses are run heavy. McCarron probably got 95% of the snaps at QB for Alabama.

 

[arahop]

A semi functional quarterback will emerge this season..... Someone has to.

 

[sharksamardzija8345]

Your **** don't stink.

To add on here, Kelly knows he has to win this year. He knows the fan base is upset. He knows there are expectations going into year 3. He knows that the turnovers turned into a comedy show. He knows the fire that will be under his *** if the team underperforms this year. He will make the most informed and responsible decision based on the evaluations this spring and summer.

We just have hope Golson and/or Hendrix make it a clear choice.

my expectations are lower this year than last year, unfortunately..