Sean Payton suspended for one year

GUknights75

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Speaking of reporters/Analysts, listen to what Herm Edwards has to say....

FYI im not trying to attack you, just give you the reasoning behind it all
 

woolybug25

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The point is Belicheck didn't LIE to Goddell during the investigation!!!!!!!!!!!!!! how many times must this be said and you not respond to it..........The reporters keep comparing the situations b\c they LIKE Payton as a person and have a good relationship with him, so they bring it up to relieve some pressure on him and point their fingers at Goddell....

The commissioner made it clear that player safety is the biggest concern around the league, now I don't agree with every penalty that has been given, but knowing that he is looking for things like this and then to LIE about it........No matter who the coach is, they need to be made an example of.

Like Military Irish said, in terms of the legal system, Belicheck might have been selling crack but he decided to cooperate and took the lesser charge because of it. Payton on the other hand is selling weed (because everyone does it, just like the bounty rule) but he doesn't cooperate, and tries to cover up his wrong doings but then it gets proved. He will receive the MAX. penalty.

There is no conspiracy theory here.....

Get it?

Read the whole thread before you say I didn't address something. I was the first person to say that he was getting punished for not doing anything about it when it was brought to his attention. I also NEVER SAID THAT HE SHOULDN'T BE PUNISHED. I just believe that his punishment is too harsh. Bellicheck lied to the commissioner about Spygate too if you didn't know.

Get it?

FYI im not trying to attack you, just give you the reasoning behind it all

Yeah... sure sounds like it.
 

gkIrish

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Read the whole thread before you say I didn't address something. I was the first person to say that he was getting punished for not doing anything about it when it was brought to his attention. I also NEVER SAID THAT HE SHOULDN'T BE PUNISHED. I just believe that his punishment is too harsh. Bellicheck lied to the commissioner about Spygate too if you didn't know.

Get it?

From what I've read that's not true. Patriots organization resisted the notion that they did anything wrong but didn't lie about what they actually did when confronted
 

woolybug25

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Read the whole thread before you say I didn't address something. I was the first person to say that he was getting punished for not doing anything about it when it was brought to his attention. I also NEVER SAID THAT HE SHOULDN'T BE PUNISHED. I just believe that his punishment is too harsh. Bellicheck lied to the commissioner about Spygate too if you didn't know.

Get it?

From what I've read that's not true. Patriots organization resisted the notion that they did anything wrong but didn't lie about what they actually did when confronted

I'm referring to Goodell's comments about Bellechik reneging on his deal for punishment:

FL commissioner Roger Goodell said he felt "deceived" by New England Patriots coach Bill Belichick after he disciplined him for the Spygate scandal in 2007.

Roger Goodell felt 'deceived' by Bill Belichick after Spygate

Also:

"I made a mistake. I was wrong." Years of sneaky cheating are not a "mistake." Even Goodell said this week, "I'm pretty well on the record here that I don't accept Bill Belichick's explanation" that he merely "misinterpreted" rules. Let's call Belichick's claim what it is: a lie.
 

NDdomer2

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This may have been talked about already but Warren Sapp was giving JShock some **** because he was told that Shockey was the "snitch".
 

GUknights75

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I'm referring to Goodell's comments about Bellechik reneging on his deal for punishment:



Roger Goodell felt 'deceived' by Bill Belichick after Spygate

Also:

Read the whole thread before you say I didn't address something. I was the first person to say that he was getting punished for not doing anything about it when it was brought to his attention. I also NEVER SAID THAT HE SHOULDN'T BE PUNISHED. I just believe that his punishment is too harsh. Bellicheck lied to the commissioner about Spygate too if you didn't know.

Get it?



Yeah... sure sounds like it.

NOW I'm going to attack you.....with all due respect


First off, don't put words in my mouth, I NEVER said that you said "he shouldn't be punished". Your starting to sound desperate for an argument. Sure you might have been the first person to say that but you have since failed to acknowledge that it's the soul reason why the punishment's are so harsh and most everyone is arguing this point, yet you keep denying it.

Second, don't put words in the commissioners mouth in your little quote from your article. You put inside Goddell's quote box "Let's call Belichick's claim what it is: a lie." making it seem like the commissioner said that, which he did NOT! and that quote has nothing to do with the investigation in the first place. It had to do with his retribution, AFTER the punishment was already given, which was a $500,000 fine for Belichick a $250,000 fine for the team, the loss of a first round draft pick and a public apology. This is the quote from Belichick from that very same article you posted to defend yourself......

"I did not make any assurances about thoroughly discussing the subject publicly. I said I would address it following the league's review. I then did that in a way I thought was appropriate. I don't think that was deceptive."

I know how to read dude, don't be fooled by the avatar. I don't want to argue about this anymore, I don't think your a bad person, we just don't see eye to eye on this subject because I feel the commissioner HAD to do something to make an example to the rest of the "leaders" in the NFL. Therefore the punishment is justifyable in my eyes.

The first quote was posted by wooly, not gkIrish
 
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woolybug25

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NOW I'm going to attack you.....with all due respect


First off, don't put words in my mouth, I NEVER said that you said "he shouldn't be punished". Your starting to sound desperate for an argument. Sure you might have been the first person to say that but you have since failed to acknowledge that it's the soul reason why the punishment's are so harsh and most everyone is arguing this point, yet you keep denying it.

Again, I am not denying that he lied, not denying that he should be punished. I am saying that the crime and cover up does not demand the harsheness of penalty. This has been my stance from the beginning. So what is your point exactly?

Second, don't put words in the commissioners mouth in your little quote from your article. You put inside Goddell's quote box "Let's call Belichick's claim what it is: a lie." making it seem like the commissioner said that, which he did NOT! and that quote has nothing to do with the investigation in the first place. It had to do with his retribution, AFTER the punishment was already given, which was a $500,000 fine for Belichick a $250,000 fine for the team, the loss of a first round draft pick and a public apology. This is the quote from Belichick from that very same article you posted to defend yourself......

What? Dude, I linked the freakin' article for everyone to read themselves. I quoted it exactly how it was written. I didn't post it trying to play it off as Goodell said that quote. The part you are quoting isn't even in quotations in the excerpt. If someone was confused, they could read the article that I specifically linked for them. Just because you read it that way, doesn't mean that I had an intent to deceive anybody. Furthermore, by the fact that it isn't in quotations, the proper way to read it is that it is not part of the quote. Don't blame your lack of reading comprehension on me and act like I am trying to deceive people. That's a real **** move, dude.

"I did not make any assurances about thoroughly discussing the subject publicly. I said I would address it following the league's review. I then did that in a way I thought was appropriate. I don't think that was deceptive."

In the article, Goodell clearly states that Belichik planned to tell the public about what he did. When Bellichik deflected blame, Goodell said that he felt "decieved".

I know how to read dude, don't be fooled by the avatar. I don't want to argue about this anymore, I don't think your a bad person, we just don't see eye to eye on this subject because I feel the commissioner HAD to do something to make an example to the rest of the "leaders" in the NFL. Therefore the punishment is justifyable in my eyes.

Obviously not well, since you are trying to act like I am trying to deceive people with my posts. I am fine with disagreeing with you and have been able to disagree peacefully with everyone else in this thread but you. Accusing me of trying to deceive everyone went over the line though. You can **** off as far as i'm concerned.
 

Redbar

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Then if you're Williams, any other coach, or any other player, why offer a bounty at all? If this is simply what all these guys are just doing anyway, why did coaches, etc. feel a need to offer up another incentive? Mangers don't offer their employees much in bonuses and extra benefits just to simply do what is entirely expected of them anyway. They offer bonuses and extra incentives to go above and beyond what is already expected of them, and in return, managers often get the extra result they desired.

Herein lies the question. The real question, and I think I know the answer. I say this having been very close to football and specifically football coaching my entire life. Why did this happen in New Orleans and I am sorry Wooly it isn't going on at every team. I believe the answer lies in the coaches experience. Do a wikipedia search of Gregg Williams and what you will see is really uncanny, it is about as meteoric a rise as a coach can have. Three years head coach in High School, one year grad assistant at no name college, then assistant coach NFL. Few years later defensive coordinator, then shortly thereafter Head Coach. Sean Payton was one of the youngest offensive coordinators in the history of the NFL before being one of the youngest head coaches in the history of the NFL. What is my point- these guys clearly understand the x's and o's, they might even have brilliant football minds BUT there are somethings you learn about leading, about teaching young men to pull their best out of themselves, about motivation, that can only be absorbed through a maturation in the craft of coaching. Great Coaches like Parseghian, or Holtz, or Lombardi, are almost like generals they know how to motivate men to do things they might not otherwise be able to do and they know how to relate in their own way to their players. Whether it is fear or love, the carrot or the stick, usually both applied at the right time. These things can only be learned by going through all kinds of seasons with all kinds of players, watching seasoned and experienced coaches deal with various adversities that arise.

It is my opinion that these guys are smart football guys, they have the requisite competitiveness, but they were probably given a disproportionate amount of responsibility at a point in their careers when they had not become comfortable with their ability to step in that locker room and look a multimillionaire, celebrity/idol twenty something year old, in the eye and not, at some corner of their character "cave in" or need to appeal to them on their level. And strip away all the money, prestige, softball post game questions and soundbite cliche answers they are mostly big children. I live and work around New Orleans I know for a fact the traditional roles between coach and player were blurred. It is similar to raising kids you want your kids to like you and relate to you but ultimately you are not their friend. You are their parent and if you do the job well one day your kids will be your friends but until that day you have to maintain a level of authority because once its gone its gone.
 

woolybug25

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Herein lies the question. The real question, and I think I know the answer. I say this having been very close to football and specifically football coaching my entire life. Why did this happen in New Orleans and I am sorry Wooly it isn't going on at every team. I believe the answer lies in the coaches experience. Do a wikipedia search of Gregg Williams and what you will see is really uncanny, it is about as meteoric a rise as a coach can have. Three years head coach in High School, one year grad assistant at no name college, then assistant coach NFL. Few years later defensive coordinator, then shortly thereafter Head Coach. Sean Payton was one of the youngest offensive coordinators in the history of the NFL before being one of the youngest head coaches in the history of the NFL. What is my point- these guys clearly understand the x's and o's, they might even have brilliant football minds BUT there are somethings you learn about leading, about teaching young men to pull their best out of themselves, about motivation, that can only be absorbed through a maturation in the craft of coaching. Great Coaches like Parseghian, or Holtz, or Lombardi, are almost like generals they know how to motivate men to do things they might not otherwise be able to do and they know how to relate in their own way to their players. Whether it is fear or love, the carrot or the stick, usually both applied at the right time. These things can only be learned by going through all kinds of seasons with all kinds of players, watching seasoned and experienced coaches deal with various adversities that arise.

It is my opinion that these guys are smart football guys, they have the requisite competitiveness, but they were probably given a disproportionate amount of responsibility at a point in their careers when they had not become comfortable with their ability to step in that locker room and look a multimillionaire, celebrity/idol twenty something year old, in the eye and not, at some corner of their character "cave in" or need to appeal to them on their level. And strip away all the money, prestige, softball post game questions and soundbite cliche answers they are mostly big children. I live and work around New Orleans I know for a fact the traditional roles between coach and player were blurred. It is similar to raising kids you want your kids to like you and relate to you but ultimately you are not their friend. You are their parent and if you do the job well one day your kids will be your friends but until that day you have to maintain a level of authority because once its gone its gone.

You are acting like coaching young men in college is the same as coaching millionaire nfl stars. They are motivated completely different. Again, the bounties weren't about the money at all. They could have been for a dollar, it was about creating internal competition. Not about rewarding them with nominal cash. These guys throw $5k around like its a nickel.

You can say that it doesn't happen all over the NFL if you want, but I have heard the same story over and over again from guys like Alfred Wilson, Brett Favre, Kurt Warner, Warren Sapp, etc all said that this is "part of the game", so excuse me if I take the opinion of guys that actually played in the league over a high school football coach. Believe that this is a one time occurance if it makes you sleep better at night, but the comments from former/current players does not support your claim.
 

GUknights75

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Again, I am not denying that he lied, not denying that he should be punished. I am saying that the crime and cover up does not demand the harshness of penalty. This has been my stance from the beginning. So what is your point exactly?



What? Dude, I linked the freaking' article for everyone to read themselves. I quoted it exactly how it was written. I didn't post it trying to play it off as Goodell said that quote. The part you are quoting isn't even in quotations in the excerpt. If someone was confused, they could read the article that I specifically linked for them. Just because you read it that way, doesn't mean that I had an intent to deceive anybody. Furthermore, by the fact that it isn't in quotations, the proper way to read it is that it is not part of the quote. Don't blame your lack of reading comprehension on me and act like I am trying to deceive people. That's a real **** move, dude.



In the article, Goodell clearly states that Belichik planned to tell the public about what he did. When Belichick deflected blame, Goodell said that he felt "deceived".



Obviously not well, since you are trying to act like I am trying to deceive people with my posts. I am fine with disagreeing with you and have been able to disagree peacefully with everyone else in this thread but you. Accusing me of trying to deceive everyone went over the line though. You can **** off as far as I'm concerned.

How do you not know what my point is?....I have stated it numerous times.......

My point is, and I feel a lot of people agree with me on this, is that he was making an example out of someone who is supposed to be viewed as a leader of a team. Some one who is supposed to personify character and integrity, yet he was warned by his head office that an investigation was pending and he still covered it up. If he doesn't lie about it, he doesn't miss next season.........

FORGET about Belichick, because I know you can say the same about him (I fu**ing hate the guy personally) the point is he didn't LIE during the investigation, he cooperated the entire time and then afterwords he satisfied Goodell enough with his public statement that he wasn't punished further for it. Besides, this happened 5 years ago so it's really not that relevant. I said nothing more than what other posters brought up on the matter.

I feel bad that everyone keeps picking on you and I get that your frustrated because there are very few that are on your side and everyone is "pointing their fingers" at you, but you just keep bringing it on your self. A lot of your argument doesn't make sense to me anymore. You say you understand that Payton lied and covered up what he was responsible for and that you understand that he is being made an example of but you think the punishment is to harsh? You still have not said (unless I missed it) what you think a sufficient punishment would be, one that would make every team say "oh sh*t! were not doing that anymore and were definitely not going to lie to the commish". It had to be that harsh because he has made it clear that there will be NO tolerance for those kinds of actions.

I agree with you (I believe you said it earlier in the thread) that they need use better helmets and mandate the usage of better mouthpiece's that are available. Frankly, IDK how some of those guys play without one and should be at least warned, then flagged.


Now onto our "personal beef", I believe I was being civil until your last post when you put words in my mouth and insulted my reading comprehension. I told you I wasn't attacking you, just explaining the other side of the story, but you just don't seem to get it.

Again with the mocking of my reading comprehension? Obviously I knew you added that on, that's why I called you out on it.......The point I'm trying to make about your quote is that you could have easily put what you wrote outside of the quote box and nothing would have been said about it (other than deceive does not mean lied to). My point with doing so was that maybe some one is on their phone checking this thread out and isn't able to see the article (which happens a lot), but they see the excerpt you pulled from the article and it says "Belichick lied" right inside your quote box and they think that it was said in the article (which was never said) and again if Goodell felt that Belichick lied to him, he would have said lied not deceived and would have punished Belichick further for not meeting his expectations. So I feel completely justified in calling you out on that one.

Sorry if I offended you or accused you for something you didn't intend, but I thought it was enough to note and I hope I made my reasoning clear. I see that your a veteran on this board and you post a lot of info, and I have read a lot of your posts in other threads and I appreciate the incite you bring, but that doesn't mean I'm going to back away from an argument. I don't post a lot but that doesn't mean that idk what I'm talking about. At least we will always have one thing in common......Notre Dame Football! ;)
 

Redbar

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You are acting like coaching young men in college is the same as coaching millionaire nfl stars. They are motivated completely different. Again, the bounties weren't about the money at all. They could have been for a dollar, it was about creating internal competition. Not about rewarding them with nominal cash. These guys throw $5k around like its a nickel.

You can say that it doesn't happen all over the NFL if you want, but I have heard the same story over and over again from guys like Alfred Wilson, Brett Favre, Kurt Warner, Warren Sapp, etc all said that this is "part of the game", so excuse me if I take the opinion of guys that actually played in the league over a high school football coach. Believe that this is a one time occurance if it makes you sleep better at night, but the comments from former/current players does not support your claim.

I'm not sure who the High School football coach you are referring to is, but the point is that the psychology of motivating young people is the same. How you do it might change, which tack you choose but the principles are the same. A real leader/motivator can inspire someone regardless of what is in their checking account. I agree that it was not about the money, the money was incidental. My point in looking at these coaches backgrounds is that they took a short cut, they went the easy route in appealing to, motivating and uniting their players because they may not have had the confidence or experience to do it any other way.

As to your contention that this is rampant throughout the league, I believe that informal wagers or incentives like sitting in a select chair or getting to carry a two by four or whatever other reward someone may dream up is certainly out there but the systematic taking of fine money that has historically been given to NFL charities and redistributing it back to players for "kill shots" is on a different scale and in this circumstance the scale changes the nature of the enterprise. BTW I love how most of us cry about how weak the regulating body of the NCAA is to the people who cross the lines in college, but we feel Goodell is a tyrant when he puts the hammer down on the NFL line steppers
 

NDinL.A.

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1) First off, I love Roger Goodell. He came in and cleaned up the image of the league within a couple of years. Don’t want to get suspended? Then stop acting like a thug and stop getting yourself arrested!!! Is he perfect? No. And has he been inconsistent at times? Yeah, I can absolutely see that. But all in all, I love what he has done.

2) Sean Payton effed up waaaaaaaayyyyy worse than Belechik IMO because of the extent of his cover-up. Read up on the great lengths to which he tried to cover this thing up and you’d be kinda shocked. I mean, the league tells you to stop and you basically say “Eff you”? And then you lie about it to the commissioner’s face (after seeing what he does to people who cross him), and then to tell everyone else to continue to lie…damn, he screwed up royally.

3) Payton deserves everything he got and more IMO. In a sense, I could care less about the bounty system – that even goes on in college. It’s stupid and it’s dangerous, but it’s engrained in the culture of the game so I get why players and coaches would do it. But the egregiousness of Payton’s actions after he and the organization were told to stop is pretty insane. I mean, you were caught, you were told to stop, and you gave the commish the middle finger and kept on doing it. And now you’ve completely effed your organization.

4) As always, the cover-up just made things a whole helluva lot worse…

5) Keep your arguments civil or you won’t be posting here anymore for a while.
 

IrishJayhawk

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3) Payton deserves everything he got and more IMO. In a sense, I could care less about the bounty system – that even goes on in college. It’s stupid and it’s dangerous, but it’s engrained in the culture of the game so I get why players and coaches would do it.

And the only way to stop it is to drop the hammer. Done.

If there is another system like this in the league, I bet it stops now.
 

dshans

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Trigger is dead. His bones have been scattered to the four corners of the earth. His dried ashes have circled the globe on the prevailing westerlies.

You can stop kicking now.
 

GoldenIsThyFame

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Chris Mortensen is reporting that Payton has reached out to the Big Tuna about coaching the Saints this year.
 

Ndaccountant

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Payton is rumored to be heading to the studio or booth this year.

I find it really interesting that even though he lost $5M+ on his contract, he still will most likely make a good portion of that back.

Seems strange, but Payton probably makes off okay financially out of this.
 

irishmarine

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Seeing on Espinoza that he's contacted bill parcels to fill in as coach during his vacancy
 

woolybug25

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Where are you seeing this? I did a google search and found nothing.
 

military_irish

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Read the name, it is a fake twitter account. Kind of funny for the people that hop on things quickly.

@AdarnSchefter: Bill Parcells has just agreed to become the #Saints head coach for the 2012 season.”
 
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