'12 CA DT/DE Arik Armstead (Oregon Verbal)

[Whiskeyjack]

In general, undergrad is harder to get into. ND really stresses undergrad education and our graduate programs are kind of lackluster.

Undergrad accepts 23% of applicants. Law school accepts about 6% of applicants. So no, undergrad isn't "harder to get into".

I don't have time to research the selectivity of every graduate program at ND, but I have little doubt they're all significantly more selective than undergrad.

That said, I have no idea what standard 5Y football players are held to. I doubt it's the same standard a random grad school applicant has to clear.

 

[clashmore_mike]

Rivals just released their final rankings. Not sure where he was before today, but Arik is at #61. That's right, SIXTY ONE.

 

[irishfanjho15]

Rivals just released their final rankings. Not sure where he was before today, but Arik is at #61. That's right, SIXTY ONE.

Wow.

 

[AvesEvo]

ND should probably pass on him then.

 

[jimmymac]

Undergrad accepts 23% of applicants. Law school accepts about 4.3% of applicants. So no, undergrad isn't "harder to get into".

I don't have time to research the selectivity of every graduate program at ND, but I have little doubt they're all significantly more selective than undergrad.

That said, I have no idea what standard 5Y football players are held to. I doubt it's the same standard a random grad school applicant has to clear.

That's false. I know your good with numbers Whiskey but Yale is the top Law school and they accept 6%. Every other law school is significantly higher, and most rankings have ND out of the top 20 in law schools which isn't great. I'm on my phone so I can't back my numbers up but search US news law school rankings and theyl be close to what I'm describing.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

That's false. I know your good with numbers Whiskey but Yale is the top Law school and they accept 6%. Every other law school is significantly higher, and most rankings have ND out of the top 20 in law schools which isn't great. I'm on my phone so I can't back my numbers up but search US news law school rankings and theyl be close to what I'm describing.

I was using figures from a 3rd party website, which appear to be either old or inaccurate. I've updated them with figures from ND Law's own website.

# of applications received: 3,059
First-year class size: 183
Selectivity: 5.98%

 

[Kak7304]

Undergrad accepts 23% of applicants. Law school accepts about 6% of applicants. So no, undergrad isn't "harder to get into".

I don't have time to research the selectivity of every graduate program at ND, but I have little doubt they're all significantly more selective than undergrad.

That said, I have no idea what standard 5Y football players are held to. I doubt it's the same standard a random grad school applicant has to clear.

ND Law School is more of an outlier than the norm for grad school at ND. In general, the other programs are much easier to get into and way less prestigious compared to grad programs at other institutions.

Also, it's difficult to compare getting into grad school vs. getting into undergrad because it's apples and oranges. Grad school by nature is tougher to get into and will have lower acceptance rates across the board. Relatively speaking, ND undergrad is elite/great compared to other undergraduate programs but ND grad is only above average compared to other grad programs (with some exceptions). Looking at it this way, ND undergrad is harder to get into.

 

[NDinL.A.]

Rivals just released their final rankings. Not sure where he was before today, but Arik is at #61. That's right, SIXTY ONE.

No problem with that personally. That's because he's adamant about being a DE, so that is where they are ranking him. If he were to be an OT, he'd be #1. We get him on campus, we still have what they feel is the #61 player in the entire country. Pretty damn good.

 

[Domina Nostra]

They basically wrote a long apology/explanation when they were readjusting the Top 100. They like him at OL and think he is not built for the D-line.

They did the same thing to Lynch last year, silly.

 

[tadman95]

Dropping to #61 means he's a Notre Dame lock! Pack the bags!

LOL

 

[Whiskeyjack]

Also, it's difficult to compare getting into grad school vs. getting into undergrad because it's apples and oranges. Grad school by nature is tougher to get into and will have lower acceptance rates across the board. Relatively speaking, ND undergrad is elite/great compared to other undergraduate programs but ND grad is only above average compared to other grad programs (with some exceptions). Looking at it this way, ND undergrad is harder to get into.

Comparing selectivity figures isn't apples to oranges. I understand that ND's undergrad is, relatively speaking, more highly regarded than some of its graduate programs, but that doesn't mean it's more difficult to get into.

Why the handwaving? You all know how to use the internet. I've demonstrated that the law school is about 4 x more selective than the undergrad. If you think that's an outlier, find the admissions statistics for a different grad program and prove it. Total Applicants/ First-year class size = Selectivity. If you can find one that's > 23%, you will have substantiated your argument.

 

[jimmymac]

I was using figures from a 3rd party website, which appear to be either old or inaccurate. I've updated them with figures from ND Law's own website.

# of applications received: 3,059
First-year class size: 183
Selectivity: 5.98%

That calculates the YIELD, not how many accepted. Many, many more were accepted than are attending.

 

[Domina Nostra]

Comparing selectivity figures isn't apples to oranges. I understand that ND's undergrad is, relatively speaking, more highly regarded than some of its graduate programs, but that doesn't mean it's more difficult to get into.

Why the handwaving? You all know how to use the internet. I've demonstrated that the law school is about 4 x more selective than the undergrad. If you think that's an outlier, find the admissions statistics for a different grad program and prove it. Total Applicants/ First-year class size = Selectivity. If you can find one that's > 23%, you will have substantiated your argument.

Here are some stats:

Admissions Statistics // Graduate School // University of Notre Dame

 

[rtrn2glory]

these stats make my headache

 

[Whiskeyjack]

That calculates the YIELD, not how many accepted. Many, many more were accepted that are attending.

Good point! From wikipedia:

Admission to NDLS is highly selective, with only 18.6% of applicants earning acceptance.

Mendoza is considered a very selective business school. The admissions rate for the previous year was 34%.

Those are the only two I can find right now. So it looks like the law school is more selective, but the business school is less selective.

Here are some stats:

Admissions Statistics // Graduate School // University of Notre Dame

Thanks, DN. A brief look through those statistics shows that most of the grad programs are far more selective than undergrad.

 

[jimmymac]

Good point! From wikipedia:





Those are the only two I can find right now. So it looks like the law school is more selective, but the business school is less selective.

Glad we got this figured out haha.

 

[FLDomer]

ibity dibity, who gives a sh!t about these stats anymore! I just want Arik and any pertinent news on him!

 

[Whiskeyjack]

Glad we got this figured out haha.

Check out Domina Nostra's link. Thus far, the business school looks like one of the only grad programs that's less selective than undergrad.

 

[koonja]

I'm confused, so Armond is going to law school at ND? IDK, guys, Stewart said it was unbearable. Does this mean Arik is a lock for ND too?

Lol.

 

[Emcee77]

New user here ... have been enjoying all your posts since recruiting has heated up this season.

I used to work in a graduate admissions office at a prestigious university (not ND) and I can tell you guys that I don't think this line of discussion is likely to be on target in terms of what the issue likely is with getting Armond in. As one poster has already said, it just depends on the program. Besides law school -- which Armond is NOT trying to get into, I don't think ... I've only heard of one player who has played football and enrolled in law school -- most grad programs' requirements are not really quantitative, unlike undergrad, so looking at statistics won't help us figure out what his chances are. It's more of a qualitative judgment about whether the student can do the things students in the program have to do. Some programs will have a narrow focus and require that the student make a real contribution to the scholarly conversation in the field -- no casual student is a good candidate for those. Others will probably just require that he have an undergraduate degree and wasn't a terrible student at SC. So I don't know what is taking so long to iron out but acceptance rates probably don't tell us anything.

 

[Kak7304]

Comparing selectivity figures isn't apples to oranges. I understand that ND's undergrad is, relatively speaking, more highly regarded than some of its graduate programs, but that doesn't mean it's more difficult to get into.

Why the handwaving? You all know how to use the internet. I've demonstrated that the law school is about 4 x more selective than the undergrad. If you think that's an outlier, find the admissions statistics for a different grad program and prove it. Total Applicants/ First-year class size = Selectivity. If you can find one that's > 23%, you will have substantiated your argument.

They are a lot different. We're trying to compare applying for 2,000 spots vs. a few spots for each individual program. Plus, most people apply to way more grad schools, in order to ensure an acceptance somewhere, than colleges for undergrad which inflates the number of applicants for grad school.

 

[Kak7304]

New user here ... have been enjoying all your posts since recruiting has heated up this season.

I used to work in a graduate admissions office at a prestigious university (not ND) and I can tell you guys that I don't think this line of discussion is likely to be on target in terms of what the issue likely is with getting Armond in. As one poster has already said, it just depends on the program. Besides law school -- which Armond is NOT trying to get into, I don't think ... I've only heard of one player who has played football and enrolled in law school -- most grad programs' requirements are not really quantitative, unlike undergrad, so looking at statistics won't help us figure out what his chances are. It's more of a qualitative judgment about whether the student can do the things students in the program have to do. Some programs will have a narrow focus and require that the student make a real contribution to the scholarly conversation in the field -- no casual student is a good candidate for those. Others will probably just require that he have an undergraduate degree and wasn't a terrible student at SC. So I don't know what is taking so long to iron out but acceptance rates probably don't tell us anything.

Thanks, we've been getting a bit off topic here.

 

[connor_in]

ibity dibity, who gives a sh!t about these stats anymore! I just want Arik and any pertinent news on him!

Jes killin time brah...

no anxiety freakouts for the last hour or so while people looked up and debated statistics on ND grad school acceptance rates

 

[FLDomer]

Thanks, we've been getting a bit off topic here.

^

 

[Bogtrotter07]

Jes killin time brah...

Or brain cells . . .

 

[Domina Nostra]

Read this just a minute ago on Twitter (posted around 12:30 pm CT):

whitneykblaine Whitney Blaine
In Elk Grove, Calif. for the Armsteads' announcement. The family is still waiting on some information so I don't think it will happen today.

She also denied that this meant they were waiting to be cleared by Auburn:

whitneykblaine Whitney Blaine
@
@BRAD4AU I wouldn't say that. I think they're waiting on info from both sides

 

[rtrn2glory]

assuming that armond hasn't filed SEC paperwork and the admissions process for ND, this has to bode well for us, yes?

 

[condoms SUCk]

Check out Domina Nostra's link. Thus far, the business school looks like one of the only grad programs that's less selective than undergrad.

FYI, Mendoza and the Graduate School operate independent of each other. That would account for the disparity.

 

[condoms SUCk]

assuming that armond hasn't filed SEC paperwork and the admissions process for ND, this has to bode well for us, yes?

I agree, I think they are waiting to hear back from ND regarding AA (elder). What do the old timers always say, "If you want something bad enough, it’s worth the wait"

 

[irishog77]

Who is Whitney Blaine anyway?