'12 IN QB Gunner Kiel (Cincinnati Transfer)

[Ndaccountant]

Every time a coach leaves for a new job, it seems to help us somehow.

Would be nice to see Voyik make that move sooner than later.

If Vandy thinks they have Gunner, he isn't flipping.

 

[magogian]

So, I went ahead and joined a premuim (trial basis) LSU site. I won't quote the info, but they say that ND is a distant third to LSU and Vandy after the visit last night.

 

[jimmymac]

So, I went ahead and joined a premuim (trial basis) LSU site. I won't quote the info, but they say that ND is a distant third to LSU and Vandy after the visit last night.

Not surprised, but hope its false

 

[NDPhilly]

Not surprised, but hope its false

Not surprised? Every ND site reports we have the lead.

 

[jimmymac]

Not surprised? Every ND site reports we have the lead.

I just feel as tho if he wanted to come here he would have made that decision a while ago.

 

[magogian]

Not surprised, but hope its false

Yeah, I have no idea if it is right or not, but I thought it was worth providing the enemy's perspective.

 

[GoldenIsThyFame]

Les must be a magic man to drop ND from leader to "distant third"

Did the guy quote Gunners parents or did he just post his opinion at the end.

If it was the latter then I obviously don't believe.

 

[IrishLax]

So, I went ahead and joined a premuim (trial basis) LSU site. I won't quote the info, but they say that ND is a distant third to LSU and Vandy after the visit last night.

What site? And who did they quote?

 

[NYMIKE6]

"As the Gunner turns"

 

[magogian]

The site is Bayou Bengals Insider - Your Inside Source to LSU Tigers Athletics.

No quotes, but info from two close sources, supposedly.

 

[BeauBenken]

Calm down guys. Those guys on the LSU site were saying ND was in third before the visit even happened...

 

[IrishLax]

The site is Bayou Bengals Insider - Your Inside Source to LSU Tigers Athletics.

No quotes, but info from two close sources, supposedly.

hmm yeah totally unreliable. "Two close sources" could mean anything from "people who don't exist" to "LSU coaches" to "my friends on the couch who are physically close to me at this time" to "Gunner Kiel and his dad."

The buzz out of LSU sites is that they "lead" after the visit. The buzz out of Vandy folk is that they lead. The buzz out of everywhere else is that ND leads. I'd say that it's an open race right now and if Kiel doesn't commit it will be because our coaches simply did not sell him hard enough.

 

[The Polish Irishman]

hmm yeah totally unreliable. "Two close sources" could mean anything from "people who don't exist" to "LSU coaches" to "my friends on the couch who are physically close to me at this time" to "Gunner Kiel and his dad."

The buzz out of LSU sites is that they "lead" after the visit. The buzz out of Vandy folk is that they lead. The buzz out of everywhere else is that ND leads. I'd say that it's an open race right now and if Kiel doesn't commit it will be because our coaches simply did not sell him hard enough.

You are joking?

 

[koonja]

I'd be very shocked if he doesn't come to ND for the reasons I mentioned in post #1910: http://www.irishenvy.com/forums/2012-recruiting-profiles/54712-12-qb-gunner-kiel-offer-128.html

I'd be disappointed in the staff if they don't get Gunner's commit.

 

[magogian]

Yah, ESPN today said that we lead for Gunner. Breaking down the nation's top uncommitted prospects - ESPN

I just wanted to get the info out there.

 

[Ndaccountant]

hmm yeah totally unreliable. "Two close sources" could mean anything from "people who don't exist" to "LSU coaches" to "my friends on the couch who are physically close to me at this time" to "Gunner Kiel and his dad."

The buzz out of LSU sites is that they "lead" after the visit. The buzz out of Vandy folk is that they lead. The buzz out of everywhere else is that ND leads. I'd say that it's an open race right now and if Kiel doesn't commit it will be because our coaches simply did not sell him hard enough.

I know we keeping beating a dead horse here, but his recruitment has always seemed to be more than what a particular coach can sell.

 

[IrishLax]

You are joking?

No. Our coaches barely pushed for him to start, then completely stopped recruiting him when he committed to Indiana. Then didn't start recruiting him hard until he expressed interest.

Our coaches have made 3 visits out to see Armstead, who lives across the country. How many times have they driven down the street to see Kiel?

#wakeup

 

[CarrollVermin]

Ponamsky on local ESPN here and talked about Gunner. Said the visit with Miles and Kragthorpe went well last night and that the biggest issue working against LSU is distance. Quoted the parents as saying that of the LSU staff was at ND he would have committed to ND already. Really like Kragthorpe and wants to play for him because of QB development. Said he feels that Gunner will end up at Vandy when all is said and done.

 

[IrishLax]

I know we keeping beating a dead horse here, but his recruitment has always seemed to be more than what a particular coach can sell.

Nope. Looking for early PT, a good fit, and close to home. If ND doesn't win out here it's because our coaches focused harder on other guys. Our A game is 4:30 AM visits. We completely backed off when he was committed to IU and really didn't recruit him "hard" before his commitment. That is NOT our A game.

 

[IrishLax]

Ponamsky on local ESPN here and talked about Gunner. Said the visit with Miles and Kragthorpe went well last night and that the biggest issue working against LSU is distance. Quoted the parents as saying that of the LSU staff was at ND he would have committed to ND already. Really like Kragthorpe and wants to play for him because of QB development. Said he feels that Gunner will end up at Vandy when all is said and done.

A quote like this and you all want to sit here and act like our staff recruited him as a "need"? If our staff had given him the push we gave CBs to start this cycle he'd be committed.

But we didn't. We treated QB as a "want" and an afterthought. And all you read on the message boards is Golson, Golson, Golson. Hendrix, Hendrix, Hendrix. And you wonder why he might not like our depth chart? I promise you Les Miles and Vandy's staff is telling him he is THE MAN, are recruiting him HARD, and promising him that he will be a multi-year starter. I doubt ND's staff is doing any of those.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

A quote like this and you all want to sit here and act like our staff recruited him as a "need"? If our staff had given him the push we gave CBs to start this cycle he'd be committed.

Can you blame them? Coming into the season, it looked like we'd have the current four QBs through 2012, which had some definite drawbacks (such as the potential of Hendrix transferring, etc.) Adding a 5th QB for 2012 would have made the situation even worse.

Now our situation is significantly different, so we're recruiting him hard. Should we be upset that the staff has been honest with Kiel throughout this process?

But we didn't. We treated QB as a "want" and an afterthought. And all you read on the message boards is Golson, Golson, Golson. Hendrix, Hendrix, Hendrix. And you wonder why he might not like our depth chart? I promise you Les Miles and Vandy's staff is telling him he is THE MAN, are recruiting him HARD, and promising him that he will be a multi-year starter. I doubt ND's staff is doing any of those.

I hope we don't promise any recruit that he'll be a multi-year starter, because it's never guaranteed.

That said, Gunner is definitely a need now, especially for the recruiting boost he'll give us down the closing stretch. Is there any indication that the staff isn't going balls out for him now?

 

[IrishLax]

Can you blame them? Coming into the season, it looked like we'd have the current four QBs through 2012, which had some definite drawbacks (such as the potential of Hendrix transferring, etc.) Adding a 5th QB for 2012 would have made the situation even worse.

Now our situation is significantly different, so we're recruiting him hard. Should we be upset that the staff has been honest with Kiel throughout this process?

No not at all. I'm not blaming the staff, not in the least. I'm simply saying if we had recruited him that way... not we should have. It was all bad circumstances.

I hope we don't promise any recruit that he'll be a multi-year starter, because it's never guaranteed.

That said, Gunner is definitely a need now, especially for the recruiting boost he'll give us down the closing stretch. Is there any indication that the staff isn't going balls out for him now?

Agreed, but other staffs do it all the time and kids buy it. And let's be honest, at Vandy it's probably the God's honest truth that barring injury he would be a multi-year starter. To the second part: no, there are no indications we aren't pushing hard for him, but have you heard of our staff going to visit? I haven't. But my point was more to the first 4 months of his recruiting.

 

[koonja]

ND went back after Keil after his decommitment, but didn't LSU go after him after we did?

 

[rtrn2glory]

hate to be pessimistic, but i agree with lax...it just seems like we didn't/haven't gone after him and shown him the love as much as others. if we land him we can thank the distance factor for it.

 

[BeauBenken]

Ponamsky on local ESPN here and talked about Gunner. Said the visit with Miles and Kragthorpe went well last night and that the biggest issue working against LSU is distance. Quoted the parents as saying that of the LSU staff was at ND he would have committed to ND already. Really like Kragthorpe and wants to play for him because of QB development. Said he feels that Gunner will end up at Vandy when all is said and done.

Can you share that quote?

And the LSU message boards were sucking Ponamsky's "e-peen" (a Whiskey term) because they said he was indicating Gunner would end up at LSU, but now he says he feels Gunner will end up at Vandy?

 

[irishog77]

hmm yeah totally unreliable. "Two close sources" could mean anything from "people who don't exist" to "LSU coaches" to "my friends on the couch who are physically close to me at this time" to "Gunner Kiel and his dad."

The buzz out of LSU sites is that they "lead" after the visit. The buzz out of Vandy folk is that they lead. The buzz out of everywhere else is that ND leads. I'd say that it's an open race right now and if Kiel doesn't commit it will be because our coaches simply did not sell him hard enough.

No not at all. I'm not blaming the staff, not in the least. I'm simply saying if we had recruited him that way... not we should have. It was all bad circumstances.




Agreed, but other staffs do it all the time and kids buy it. And let's be honest, at Vandy it's probably the God's honest truth that barring injury he would be a multi-year starter. To the second part: no, there are no indications we aren't pushing hard for him, but have you heard of our staff going to visit? I haven't. But my point was more to the first 4 months of his recruiting.

I'm not trying to start an argument here, I guess I just don't understand what you are saying? If we don't get him, it's because of the coaches...but you're not blaming the staff? Like Whiskey said, early on, QB was kind of a luxury in this class. Then, when it wasn't, the staff did start going after him. And to an extent, I give the coaches credit for not going hard after a guy that is committed elsewhere. People rip on the Urban Meyers of the world all the time for doing that sort of thing. Communication is a 2 way street, and both parties have to be willing to engage in conversations to make it work. Regarding when he was an IU commit and even now, none of us really know what the conversations are like between Gunner and ND's staff. I personally don't think it means gloom and doom because some ND fans and amateur recruitniks (which is essentially what we are) don't know the specifics of visits and/or conversations Gunner has had/is having with the head coach and members of his staff. I hope Kiel comes to ND, but something tells me if he doesn't, it won't be because Vanderbilt out-recruited ND and showed him more love. I think there would be more to the story than that.

 

[IrishLax]

I'm not trying to start an argument here, I guess I just don't understand what you are saying? If we don't get him, it's because of the coaches...but you're not blaming the staff? Like Whiskey said, early on, QB was kind of a luxury in this class. Then, when it wasn't, the staff did start going after him. And to an extent, I give the coaches credit for not going hard after a guy that is committed elsewhere. People rip on the Urban Meyers of the world all the time for doing that sort of thing. Communication is a 2 way street, and both parties have to be willing to engage in conversations to make it work. Regarding when he was an IU commit and even now, none of us really know what the conversations are like between Gunner and ND's staff. I personally don't think it means gloom and doom because some ND fans and amateur recruitniks (which is essentially what we are) don't know the specifics of visits and/or conversations Gunner has had/is having with the head coach and members of his staff. I hope Kiel comes to ND, but something tells me if he doesn't, it won't be because Vanderbilt out-recruited ND and showed him more love. I think there would be more to the story than that.

How is this confusing? I'll give you an analogy. You're at a restaurant, and the 4 course meal on the menu looks really good so you order it. You also opt to not order the chocolate souffle (that takes 40 minutes to make and you have to order at the start of the meal) because you assume you're going to be full. Then it turns out 1 of the 4 courses wasn't good and now you have room for desert. You say to yourself "darn, I really want the souffle now, but it's going to be hard to get now because I didn't order it ahead of time."

IF you had opted to order the souffle you'd be happy and enjoying a delicious desert. But AT THE TIME it made perfect logical sense why you didn't go all in for the desert.
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Translating this to Kiel, I'm saying that while it makes sense that we didn't go balls to the wall for him and stay on him the entire time he was committed to Indiana, the only reason we're in a dog fight right now and might lose him is because we didn't take those steps. Clear?

 

[koonja]

So LSU/Vandy were balls to the wall for him from the get go, and stayed on him during his committment to IU?

 

[IrishLax]

I'm not trying to start an argument here, I guess I just don't understand what you are saying? If we don't get him, it's because of the coaches...but you're not blaming the staff? Like Whiskey said, early on, QB was kind of a luxury in this class. Then, when it wasn't, the staff did start going after him. And to an extent, I give the coaches credit for not going hard after a guy that is committed elsewhere. People rip on the Urban Meyers of the world all the time for doing that sort of thing. Communication is a 2 way street, and both parties have to be willing to engage in conversations to make it work. Regarding when he was an IU commit and even now, none of us really know what the conversations are like between Gunner and ND's staff. I personally don't think it means gloom and doom because some ND fans and amateur recruitniks (which is essentially what we are) don't know the specifics of visits and/or conversations Gunner has had/is having with the head coach and members of his staff. I hope Kiel comes to ND, but something tells me if he doesn't, it won't be because Vanderbilt out-recruited ND and showed him more love. I think there would be more to the story than that.

Now to address the meat of your post specifically, to the part I've bolded we DO have a pretty good idea. And that is that ND's staff did not push for him until he contacted them and his recruitment basically fell in their lap.

To the second part I bolded, how many times have ND's coaches driven down to see him? Answer me that first before you tell me we didn't get out-recruited or put in max effort.

 

[BeauBenken]

How is this confusing? I'll give you an analogy. You're at a restaurant, and the 4 course meal on the menu looks really good so you order it. You also opt to not order the chocolate souffle (that takes 40 minutes to make and you have to order at the start of the meal) because you assume you're going to be full. Then it turns out 1 of the 4 courses wasn't good and now you have room for desert. You say to yourself "darn, I really want the souffle now, but it's going to be hard to get now because I didn't order it ahead of time."

IF you had opted to order the souffle you'd be happy and enjoying a delicious desert. But AT THE TIME it made perfect logical sense why you didn't go all in for the desert.
--------------
Translating this to Kiel, I'm saying that while it makes sense that we didn't go balls to the wall for him and stay on him the entire time he was committed to Indiana, the only reason we're in a dog fight right now and might lose him is because we didn't take those steps. Clear?

I've gotta say...bitchin' analogy.

Also I agree. Except it is the staffs fault, you just really can't blame them too much for it. Unless the situation is that they are not trying hard to get the souffle now after the meal...then you can definitely blame them for it.