2011 Mich/USF vs. 2005 MSU OT/Bush Push

Mr. McGibblets

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If you could take back both of this year’s USF/Michigan Games or the 2005 Michigan State OT loss/USC ‘Bush Push’ game, which would you choose? Currently, you could either be 2 games away from being undefeated, potentially setting up a colossal matchup with Stanford to reach a major BCS bowl (not sure which bowl) or beat Michigan State and USC to potentially set up a run for the National Championship.

First, let me state, I will never, ever, ever, forget this season's Michigan 4th quarter.

95% of the time, I live for the present, but I remember where I was, what I ate, how many beers I drank, announcer stating “the elusive Bush” (and I still joke about that), the 4th and 9, the garbage fumble out of bounds and the freaking push—--TD.

If I could take back any event—maybe even including the BC FG —I want that USC game back more than anything. Reason being—I was young during the BC game, I remember it, but I look it sports differently now. If Weis beats MSU and wins that game against USC, he could potentially upset “X-opponent” for the national championship and he is still the head coach and this program is still reaping benefits. Not that I love Weis (although this old post http://www.irishenvy.com/forums/notre-dame-football/27837-relax-weis.html suggests otherwise), but the Bush Push game crushed me. I still watch the 2005 USC game final drive on YouTube and have that dumb feeling of “ok, I can turn back time. ND will pull it out.”. Weis’ 1st season was supposed to be our “Return to Glory.” I believed and was let down, and was then continually crushed in the following years.

Finally, Although I will never ever forget where I was for 2011 USF (my apartment amidst the rain delays) or 2011 Michigan (PMing Pham to get down to Fox and the Hound in Center City Philly because I needed ND backup as I sat in the middle of 35-40 Mich Fans), I need to go Bush because I still ponder how that season could have panned out, despite their defeat by OSU in the Fiesta Bowl.

Bush Push- Stings the Nostrils. Smells like Big Foots D!CK!
 
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Mr. McGibblets

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I decided. I talked so much trash when ND scored with 30 + secs left and Denard with the ball. Ill never forget it, but I had to go Bush Push.
 

Whiskeyjack

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It may just be the benefit of hindsight, but I'd reverse 2011 USF/ Michigan. All of Charlie's teams were fundamentally flawed; even if we had managed to pull out the win against USC in 2005, I have little doubt we would have gotten blown out against whatever bowl opponent we faced.

Since we didn't win that game, the USC victory in 2010 was hugely meaningful, and that victory came under a coach whom I genuinely believe can lead us back to greatness.

The last two Michigan losses have been daggers. All those USC teams that beat us were genuinely better; top to bottom. The last two Michigan teams we lost to have been trash, save for a single insanely elusive wildcat QB who has single-handedly ripped my heart out twice now.
 

greyhammer90

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I decided. I talked so much trash when ND scored with 30 + secs left and Denard with the ball. Ill never forget it, but I had to go Bush Push.

I was the exact opposite. My friends were all patting me on the back saying "You won!" I turned to one of my roommates and drunkenly said "With this team, it's never over." They all laughed and I said, "You don't know this team like I do."



I was trying to cushion myself in case it happened... It still hurt dammit.
 

BeauBenken

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Okay, I'll say this year's losses just because I think we would be in an even better position with the recruits were after now and because 3 straight to UM for the first time ever is...ugh.

You have no idea how angry of a 12 year old I was after that USC game though.
 

BeauBenken

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I was the exact opposite. My friends were all patting me on the back saying "You won!" I turned to one of my roommates and drunkenly said "With this team, it's never over." They all laughed and I said, "You don't know this team like I do."



I was trying to cushion myself in case it happened... It still hurt dammit.

I prayed every play until we took the lead. I was so excited when we scored that TD.






I forgot to pray for our defense after the first play... :(
 

Rhode Irish

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ND would have gotten killed in the national championship if the Bush Push hadn't happened. On the other hand, I wonder how well this team would do against LSU/Bama/Oklahoma if we were to get through the season unbeaten. But because I KNOW that 2005 team couldn't have won it all and I'm not sure about this year's team, I'll take the 2-0 start this year.

Having said all of that, though, I was 10 years old when Gordon made that kick in '93. I've hated BC ever since, but for many of the reasons McGibblets stated, the USC game is among the most painful loss of my life, along with game 7 of the 2003 ALCS, Super Bowl XLII, and the ref swallowing his whistle as Cuttino Mobley was raped by a Stanford player (who was trying to foul, BTW) in the 1998 Elite Eight, with URI :50 from the Final Four. But just because that game hurt more at the time doesn't mean it would be a more valuable result to change. I think right now I'd prefer to get the two games that started this year.
 

ulukinatme

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Hard to say considering we still have some tough games left on the schedule this year, especially Stanford. I saw the USF game this year, the Michigan State OT in '05, and the Bush Push in '05. Even if you reverse the Bush Push game, and we somehow beat Michigan State in OT, this team just wasn't sound on defense in any aspect. On top of that the running game wasn't that impressive in '05 either, it was all passing. When we played a good pass defense in '05, we didn't look very good.

Considering we're playing more complete football this year, I would go with taking back the Michigan/USF games. It hurts...especially after we saw time expire in that USC game in '05 and the students running onto the field only to be denied (Screw you, PAC 10 refs, you blew it in those final minutes on more than one occasion). We would have been embarrassed by Texas in the '05 National Championship game though, so better we take that loss and play a closer game against OSU.
 

Rudy89

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this year for sure. If we wouldve gone undefeated in 05 we wouldve had to have played Texas in the 06 Rose Bowl. I loved the 05 ream but Young wouldve made our D look like crap that game. Id take our first two wins this year fo sho.

Edit: just saw the poster above me beat me to all of these points and sounded much smarter about it...sorry yall
 

no.1IrishFan

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It may just be the benefit of hindsight, but I'd reverse 2011 USF/ Michigan. All of Charlie's teams were fundamentally flawed; even if we had managed to pull out the win against USC in 2005, I have little doubt we would have gotten blown out against whatever bowl opponent we faced.

Since we didn't win that game, the USC victory in 2010 was hugely meaningful, and that victory came under a coach whom I genuinely believe can lead us back to greatness.

The last two Michigan losses have been daggers. All those USC teams that beat us were genuinely better; top to bottom. The last two Michigan teams we lost to have been trash, save for a single insanely elusive wildcat QB who has single-handedly ripped my heart out twice now.




THIS!^
 

meowmix

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I was the exact opposite. My friends were all patting me on the back saying "You won!" I turned to one of my roommates and drunkenly said "With this team, it's never over." They all laughed and I said, "You don't know this team like I do."



I was trying to cushion myself in case it happened... It still hurt dammit.

My UM fan friend texted me after our score "Same episode, different ending" and I tried to do the same thing you did, saying "still 30 seconds". *sigh f*ck michigan
 

IrishinSyria

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05 hands down. Hands. Down.

Beating Michigan would have been nice and, to be honest, expected. Beating USC at the peak of one of the most dominant runs in college footaball history would have been the greatest day in ND football's storied history since 1988. If only that ball had been fumbled in bounds...
 

meowmix

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I would take back the Michigan loss. Like Whiskey said, Charlie's teams were fundamentally flawed - just look at how much better the trench play and running game are! And to lose to such a bad team in such a horrible manner was really bad. The Bush push was bad, but we all know USC was really good, and I think we can agree we would have been junglef*cked in the BCS game anyway. Michigan is a hideously overrated team led by a wildcat quarterback whose "long bombs" travel 30 yards if he's lucky, whose "long" passes are so bad that cornerbacks don't realize they have to come back for them. Losing to a clearly inferior team(scUM) is much worse than losing an upset bid against an incredibly good team (05 USC).
 

nlroma1o

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The last two Michigan losses have been daggers. All those USC teams that beat us were genuinely better; top to bottom. The last two Michigan teams we lost to have been trash, save for a single insanely elusive wildcat QB who has single-handedly ripped my heart out twice now.

Yuppp, Im right there with ya Whisky... If i could have any game back over the last decade it would be the game Under The Lights.... i foking HATE scUM!!!! GOD DANGIT ANYWAYS!!!
 

]\/[GoBlue

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It may just be the benefit of hindsight, but I'd reverse 2011 USF/ Michigan. All of Charlie's teams were fundamentally flawed; even if we had managed to pull out the win against USC in 2005, I have little doubt we would have gotten blown out against whatever bowl opponent we faced.

Since we didn't win that game, the USC victory in 2010 was hugely meaningful, and that victory came under a coach whom I genuinely believe can lead us back to greatness.

The last two Michigan losses have been daggers. All those USC teams that beat us were genuinely better; top to bottom. The last two Michigan teams we lost to have been trash, save for a single insanely elusive wildcat QB who has single-handedly ripped my heart out twice now.


Just out of curiosity, what are you going to do after Denard graduates?
 

Irish4Life09

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This is a hard one.(That's what she said.)
I was a junior in college sitting all alone in my dormroom almost to tears when the BushPush occured...I was in utter shock.
But this years Michigan game had me even more upset.Not only did we lose in the final seconds, it happened the same way for the 3rd straight year.I was utterly disgusted.Tommy had set himself up to go down in the lore of ND football with his last drive,and then the defense gives it away because our moronic CB can't turn his head around like a normal person.
 
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Well I blacked out for the Michigan game so I can't remember it. I'd go with 2005 USC/MSU for that reason.
 

Whiskeyjack

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Just out of curiosity, what are you going to do after Denard graduates?

I'll hold off on any celebration until ND breaks the curse. After all, Robinson is simply carrying on a tradition started by Forcier. I'm sure Gardner or Morris will pick up right where Robinson left off.
 

meowmix

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I'll hold off on any celebration until ND breaks the curse. After all, Robinson is simply carrying on a tradition started by Forcier. I'm sure Gardner or Morris will pick up right where Robinson left off.

I refuse to believe that those scUMbags will continue to have such absurd luck. And they would have lost this year if not for a defensive meltdown. What will help is that Gardner and Morris can both actually throw deep. It's easier for corners to defend passes that go where they're supposed to rather than badly underthrown passes. Regardless, they have been an inferior team and I believe they will continue to be.
 

meowmix

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HA!!! No kidding. I dont care what anyone says. Gardner is NOT Denard. He never will be either...

Nobody is Denard. The kid is a freak running back. Finds holes extremely well and is insanely fast. Horrible passer though. Devin's fast but not nearly as fast as Denard (who is?) but can throw much better. My reasoning is that Denard was the only reason Michigan won the last two years, and without such a dynamic qb, Michigan will struggle.
 

Whiskeyjack

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I refuse to believe that those scUMbags will continue to have such absurd luck. And they would have lost this year if not for a defensive meltdown. What will help is that Gardner and Morris can both actually throw deep. It's easier for corners to defend passes that go where they're supposed to rather than badly underthrown passes. Regardless, they have been an inferior team and I believe they will continue to be.

How were 2009 and 2010 different? We went ahead with under two minutes to play, and in both games, our defense couldn't get a stop.
 
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meowmix

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How were 2009 and 2010 different? We went ahead with under two minutes to play, and in both games, our defense couldn't get a stop.

2009 I blame on the refs. And the defense was awful that year anyway. 2010, the defense was totally unprepared for scUM's wildcat package. The main difference between 2010 and 2011 was that losing contain on Denard and letting him run is one thing: it was only the 2nd game in a new defense for the players, and Denard is a ridiculously good running back. But to let god-awful, ugly-as-sin, disgustingly underthrown "long bombs" to be completed multiple times is a result of lack of focus and a true defensive meltdown.
 
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