My opinion for what its worth

[TheTurningPoint]

I feel like a few things need to be put into reality lol.

1. Everyone is entitled to their opinion on coaches/players/recruits/fans/etc...but let me ask you a question.....Weis got the top of the line players. Highly rated, talented, and household names by the time they arrived on campus. I mean Clausen, Floyd, Rudolph, Sam Young, Gary Gray were literally the best of the best. Weis got them from Cali, SEC country to come to ND. Its been proven that ND can/will get elite kids from anywhere reguardless if they win or not.

2. Those highly touted kids best season wasnt under Weis, it was after they lost to Navy and Tulsa under Brian Kelly. Now, I think coaching/development played a large factor in Weis not being the coach in 2010, yet tell me something....Did any of the 07 class (clausens) leave ND any bigger than when they got to campus? No. Prime example...Brian Smith...arrived big, left thinner and probably not that much stronger. Not picking on Brian cus I love the kid. But, thats just a easy example....but look the guys that we brought in 07/08...none of them made gains physically till Longo arrived.

3. The reason I bring that up...sure ND didnt have a coach dedicated to his job like Longo, but at the sametime IF you love football you are gonna work. You are going to dedicate yourself to the craft. Now if your a ND football player your dedicate yourself to the university...its CLEARLY happened before....and we were good. Kids that believed/bled/fought/breathed/sweated/sacrificed for ND. When was the last time you watched a game and knew ND left everything out on the field before the 2010 season. I can think of one...2009 vs usc.

4. 2010--- ND showed glimpses of heart and desire early on....then as you know they went through a period of questioning themselves as players and coaches as coaches. After Tulsa they could have packed it in, and said f*ck it. Thats where Coach Kelly and the coaching factor comes in. The guy had instilled heart and desire early on, and he wasn't going to give up on the team reguardless of how the team thought of themselves and what the media/fans were saying.

5. Bye week happened. Whatever happened that week.....ND started playing like the old ND teams...with heart/desire/pride..something that hadn't been there reguardless of talent. We had a kid who burnt his redshirt 2 games earlier in season make huge plays. What "star" ranking was Kona? We had a kid who talked and talked but never backed it up, be humbled for the entire year get back into the starting rotation and make plays...Brian Smith. We had a kid who talked and talked about shutting down WRs for 2 years, to a level of annoyance, make a play on Sp Teams that changed the season in RJ. We had a 3 star kid that verbaled to Texas A&M who know one had heard of make a play after play in Kap. We had a kid who was fairly touted coming out of high school, who had played multiple positions and struggle greatly...all of sudden become a playmaker at safety in Harrison. We had a kid who no one gave a chance in hell to even see the field in his career at ND, let alone start at QB as true freshmen, win the 3 of the biggest games in the last 10 years for ND in Tommy Rees. I mean you can go down the list of players who werent highly ranked/given a shot in hell to play....Toma- big first down. Kamara- who? lol 2 TDs. Eifert- almost didnt even offer the kid. Cywnar stepped up. Bennett Jackson on sp teams. I mean Ruffer was kicking in dorm ball 2 years ago, now is the best kicker in the nation....

6. Coach Kelly didnt do any coaching that changed the season. He did it back when he got to ND in January. He changed the attitiude, the motivation, the heart, the desire, the goals of the program. When you can bench a 3 year starter in Brian Smith, and have the kid not be vocal about it, then bring him off the bench and have him play better than any point in his career...thats trust. The players TRUST Kelly. They know he knows what it takes to win, so they believe. The kids that don't he didnt invite back for a 5th, or he didn't play them. He took kids that werent 'highly touted' and made them playmakers at different parts in the game. He took kids that werent ready to play, and made them playmakers at what they do well. They bought into his system and what he believe in. Thats not really coaching, thats just making someone believe.

7. Point is...no matter who we offer or who we don't offer....theres a reason. I dont care if the kid isnt a 4 or 5 star. No one gave Kona a fighting chance in hell to play his freshmen year, yet he played a vital role in the turning of the season. Bennett Jackson was known for his speed, yet didn't know the offense well enough...yet Kelly got him plugged in somewhere where he could make a difference. I will take a kid that is less highly ranked that actually wants to be at ND over the 5 star who is going there bc he play sooner. Its the kids that will do anything to see the field, and do anything to win games. We didnt have that in the past with all of those 'highly touted' recruits. We need kids that dont care if they play in 4 years, yet understand that making everyone better in practice makes them win games. To change the program, Kelly needs to get kids who want to be at ND. The 2011 class clearly wants to be there...theres not one kid that got suckered into being there. They all want to be there. Did member of past classes want to be there? I dont think so.


Thats the difference of winning and losing those close games. The kid who has more heart wins college football games. I mean Boise St/TCU...come on. They have gotten some good talent, but they got kids that want to play football. They dont live and die by highly touted kids. Gotta get kids that will leave it all out there...all the kids we are getting I have no doubt each one will do that. Kids with great heart and love for the game make of the 2011 class, as well as the 2012 class. Thats something every offer has. Wasnt that case before. So let Kelly get the kids that will continue to play with that heart week in and week out.


Just my 2 cents.

 

[NankerPhelge]

Yes. Agree with everything you said. Excellent post. Saw the palpable change after the bye-week. This is why ND goes undefeated this regular season, with the bowl game being a toss-up. Bet on it. I will.

 

[GBdomer]

Call me nuts turning point as always your money. But that Robert Blanton blocked punt just changed something it brought something back to life thats been missing since the Holtz days.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

Excellent post. Really glad you started posting here, TP.

To the extent that you're responding to genuine concern over our the quality of our recruits, I don't think anyone's really worried (at least not on this board.)

 

[FightingIrishLover7]

Call me nuts turning point as always your money. But that Robert Blanton blocked punt just changed something it brought something back to life thats been missing since the Holtz days.

I firmly believe Blanton's blocked punt can be the play that single handily woke up ND's Echoes...

From that instant on, ND played like they expected to win. And I have a feeling this is going to continue for years to come.

 

[Buster Bluth]

and that's the greatest post ever made...

 

[hrc08]

Excellent post. Really glad you started posting here, TP.

To the extent that you're responding to genuine concern over our the quality of our recruits, I don't think anyone's really worried (at least not on this board.)

They are in the extreme minority on both sites I post.

We all know that Kelly and Co. target a particular size and go get that player knowing that they will coach him well enough that he will work for the system.

Look at Gray. Martin had him playing very wel,l very early.

 

[TheTurningPoint]

Getting kids that have time to develop is a great thing lol. Tired of seeing 10+ freshmen HAVE to get PT for us to be competitive. Thats the great thing with Tuitt/Lynch...they have the potential to leave as the 2 greatest DEs to play at ND, yet they arent pressured to play this year.

Hate to say it...but ohio st has a great defense every year, yet some years they lose 7-8-9 guys on D...but they are still top 10...Get the kids to fit your system and they buy into it...you got something special.

 

[BeauBenken]

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I seriously tear up sometimes when I think about how big it was to see that blocked punt.

That game may have been the game to return us to glory.

 

[NDOM]

Yes. Agree with everything you said. Excellent post. Saw the palpable change after the bye-week. This is why ND goes undefeated this regular season, with the bowl game being a toss-up. Bet on it. I will.

LOL! I wouldn't bet too much on it.

 

[CarrollVermin]

If you go back and look at ND Central and watch some of the wins from 2009 and 2008, you can see a difference between those and 2010. Body language was a big part of it. Even after we took leads late in the games there was that sense of "waiting for the other shoe to drop" in those victories. Did not really get that sense late last year. Even going to the BC and Pitt games, there was a sense that a stop was going to be made.

Yes, we turned a corner against Utah, but we also cannot discount the Tulsa or Navy games. Holtz once said that in order for you to see the top of the mountain, you have to experience the depth of rock bottom. Those may have been rock bottom for this group of guys and the bye week helped to gather the troops and focus energy going forward.

Still, going forward it is about speed, depth, and being aggressive. A few of those are intangibles that are not captured in a recruiting service's star rankings.

 

[woolybug25]

Excellent post. I cant agree with the Brian Smith comments more. Since I have been watching ND football, I never saw a kid mature more in one season of football. He came in and talked WAY more than he produced, only to get a switch flipped his senior year, and finish off a nice career at Notre Dame. The picture of him with his dad on senior night is priceless. He seems like a fine young man.

 

[woolybug25]

LOL! I wouldn't bet too much on it.

I have $5 on it.

I'm at work, so I cant access youtube. Somone please embed the music video " I got 5 on it" by Luniz. Gracias.

 

[NDOM]

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I seriously tear up sometimes when I think about how big it was to see that blocked punt.

That game may have been the game to return us to glory.

A$$HOLE! Just had to make me get all teary eyed. I love that video. Just the music made me start crying like a lil girl. Oh well.

 

[phgreek]

...but ohio st has a great defense every year, yet some years they lose 7-8-9 guys on D...but they are still top 10...Get the kids to fit your system and they buy into it...you got something special.

..or, offer sweater vests with money stitched inside as a signing bonus...Sorry, couldn't help myself.

I would agree that the RB blocked punt turned on the light. Consider that we had an Int. prior to, and didn't really do anything...RB's play left nothing to do...he took the points RIGHT NOW, and we really never looked back...huge, huge play. I give him alot of credit for being composed and keeping his wits...there are so many ways to screw that up so you don't a) block it, b) have a shot at recovery.

I will say, RB showed that thing we used to have...guys simply refusing to lose...making a play. To do that you need folks in the right places, in the right frame of mind. My hat his off to BK and staff.

 

[IrishLax]

Only one minor correction to the OP (love everything else in it) but a lot of guys did get bigger under Mendoza. Just not a lot of them in the right way. That is why we wore down so badly in the 4th quarter. At the NFL combine two years ago a lot of ND guys (Sam Young, for instance) put up some pretty good strength numbers if memory serves me correctly.

KLM is one of the only guys coming to mind who made significant strength/size gains under Charlie's regime and did so in a very positive way.

 

[Rhode Irish]

This thread has brightened up my day. The OP was awesome. The video that BeauBenken posted messed up my makeup...er, I mean....was awesome. Good start to the day.

 

[GoldenIsThyFame]

If Turning Point told everyone on this board to jump off a bridge how many would jump?

You made some great points TP, but I think you could pretty much say anything on here and 90% of the members would buy it.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

If Turning Point told everyone on this board to jump off a bridge how many would jump?

You made some great points TP, but I think you could pretty much say anything on here and 90% of the members would buy it.

Scorching is thy flame.

 

[Sherm Sticky]

5. Bye week happened. Whatever happened that week.....ND started playing like the old ND teams...with heart/desire/pride..something that hadn't been there reguardless of talent. We had a kid who burnt his redshirt 2 games earlier in season make huge plays. What "star" ranking was Kona? We had a kid who talked and talked but never backed it up, be humbled for the entire year get back into the starting rotation and make plays...Brian Smith. We had a kid who talked and talked about shutting down WRs for 2 years, to a level of annoyance, make a play on Sp Teams that changed the season in RJ. We had a 3 star kid that verbaled to Texas A&M who know one had heard of make a play after play in Kap. We had a kid who was fairly touted coming out of high school, who had played multiple positions and struggle greatly...all of sudden become a playmaker at safety in Harrison. We had a kid who no one gave a chance in hell to even see the field in his career at ND, let alone start at QB as true freshmen, win the 3 of the biggest games in the last 10 years for ND in Tommy Rees. I mean you can go down the list of players who werent highly ranked/given a shot in hell to play....Toma- big first down. Kamara- who? lol 2 TDs. Eifert- almost didnt even offer the kid. Cywnar stepped up. Bennett Jackson on sp teams. I mean Ruffer was kicking in dorm ball 2 years ago, now is the best kicker in the nation....

Hey now...KLM was a highly recruited kid out of high school. Rivals rated him 4* and ESPN would have given him a 4*, but they didn't have start ratings then. KLM had offers from Oklahoma and Texas offered him late also.

Other than that...great post!

 

[NDinL.A.]

Only one minor correction to the OP (love everything else in it) but a lot of guys did get bigger under Mendoza. Just not a lot of them in the right way. That is why we wore down so badly in the 4th quarter. At the NFL combine two years ago a lot of ND guys (Sam Young, for instance) put up some pretty good strength numbers if memory serves me correctly.

KLM is one of the only guys coming to mind who made significant strength/size gains under Charlie's regime and did so in a very positive way.

Dang, beat me to it.

Like LAX said, guys did get bigger, and their squats and bench press numbers etc improved. Just look at Clausen from when he came in and when he left. But there were 2 problems (among others): 1. Guys were losing weight during the season. 2. There was an obvious disconnect between Mendoza and Weis. OTOH, Longo and Kelly are like 2 peas in a pod. EVERYTHING that Longo does has Kelly's football program in mind. That's huge.

But great post TP. Most ND fans agree with what you say, except for a loud minority. I personally can see why people are getting frustrated with recruiting - but I just don't buy it. The recruitniks keep saying that ND from here on out will wait for prospects they deem elite, which means we'll have to wait. Unfortunately, most people nowadays aren't patient, and with Michigan getting 4 verbals a day this summer, some people are freaking out. When we win, the recruits will notice and we'll be fine. Should we have a bad season, then yes, time to panic. But we'll win 10 games and we'll be fine...

 

[Kak7304]

Only one minor correction to the OP (love everything else in it) but a lot of guys did get bigger under Mendoza. Just not a lot of them in the right way. That is why we wore down so badly in the 4th quarter. At the NFL combine two years ago a lot of ND guys (Sam Young, for instance) put up some pretty good strength numbers if memory serves me correctly.

KLM is one of the only guys coming to mind who made significant strength/size gains under Charlie's regime and did so in a very positive way.

I agree. A lot of the guys made huge gains in their bench numbers and performed well in the combines in that event. However, I felt like many players lost speed and agility throughout their careers and also held a lot of bad weight. I believe Golden Tate measured in at 14% body fat at the NFL combine which is way too high for a WR playing at this level. Can you imagine Tate's speed and agility had he been around 8% like he should have been?

Mendoza also built up huge, hulking linemen who couldn't move laterally to save their lives. This would have been fine had we run an offense like Wisconsin ran last year, but we had a finesse, pro-style passing offense. We would have had more success with smaller, more agile linemen instead of massive tackles that DEs could simply run around.

I also believe Mendoza's lower body work was inadequate. I remember reading last year that each of our starting DL added 100+ lbs to their squat max. That many players moving up that much in one year should not happen unless their legs were previously under worked. I believe this was evident on the field during the Weis years when our players with huge bench numbers were being pushed around by smaller, "weaker" players. Strong legs are so much more vital to success in the trenches than upper body strength and our players' deficiency in lower body strength lost us many battles.

I've actually always believed that one of the biggest downfalls of the Weis regime was the large disconnect between the style of play on the field and the strength and conditioning program (more strength much less conditioning). I believe our early season successes, followed by late season collapses provides strong evidence for this theory. I was relieved when I heard about the importance Kelly places on his strength and conditioning program, as well as Longo's methods. I believe superior conditioning can be enough to help a program win 1-2 more games a year, assuming adequate coaching is in place (nothing could help the Willingham staff). If you don't believe me, watch the 2009 Cincy/Pitt game.

 

[jmurphy75]

If Turning Point told everyone on this board to jump off a bridge how many would jump?

You made some great points TP, but I think you could pretty much say anything on here and 90% of the members would buy it.

Could just be that it was a positive objective post that was a good read, instead of all of the back and forth recruiting arguments that have been going on.....just a thought

 

[Cali_domer]

If Turning Point told everyone on this board to jump off a bridge how many would jump?

You made some great points TP, but I think you could pretty much say anything on here and 90% of the members would buy it.

Well I agree with him and never knew who he was. Really I still don't know who he is(Can someone tell me?). I know that he wrote a good post that I agree with.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

Could just be that it was a positive objective post that was a good read, instead of all of the back and forth recruiting arguments that have been going on.....just a thought

To give a little context to GoldenIsThyFame's post:

TurningPoint2011 has a twitter account through which he breaks lots of recruiting news. I don't know what his sources are, but he's well-connected.

Thus, when he started posted here, those of us who follow him on twitter got excited. In GoldenIsThyFame's opinion, perhaps a little too excited.

 

[NeuteredDoomer]

If Turning Point told everyone on this board to jump off a bridge how many would jump?

You made some great points TP, but I think you could pretty much say anything on here and 90% of the members would buy it.

Ease up on the bromance there GoldenITF. Some folks on this site have "been there, done that," and some think they know what would happen if they were there, but haven't. It's all good. Makes for an interesting dialogue.

 

[GoldenIsThyFame]

Ease up on the bromance there GoldenITF. Some folks on this site have "been there, done that," and some think they know what would happen if they were there. It's all good.

You shut your mouth when you are talking to me!

I no have a bromance.... Whiskey is smitten.

 

[sptanner88]

Good Post. I have two comments.

You suggest that the choice in recruiting is between 3* players who really want to be at ND and will leave it all out on the field and highly-touted 5* players who lack that devotion and drive. This is a false premise. What I want, and what I trust BK and the staff are looking for, are 4* and 5* players that really ant to be at ND and will leave it all out on the field each week. Talent, properly coached, as opposed to grit and determination is what wins the vast majority of college football games. That brings me to my second comment. Why is Boise State and TCU so highly ranked each year? They have strong programs and play lousy schedules. They go 12-0 becuase they only have one or two challenges each year. The rest of the time they play cupcakes. That is also why they get beaten in the bowls quite often. Talent, properly coached, rules the day.

BK needs, and is getting, the same level of talent that Charlie brought in. Differnce is, BK will coach them up like colege football players instead of treating them like NFL Pros in the manner that Charlie did.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

Why is Boise State and TCU so highly ranked each year? They have strong programs and play lousy schedules. They go 12-0 becuase they only have one or two challenges each year. The rest of the time they play cupcakes. That is also why they get beaten in the bowls quite often. Talent, properly coached, rules the day.

I won't defend their cupcake schedules, but TCU beat a very tough Wisconsin team in the Rose Bowl this year, and Boise State beat Oklahoma in the 2007 Fiesta Bowl. Those two teams have had more recent bowl success than most national programs.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

You shut your mouth when you are talking to me!

I no have a bromance.... Whiskey is smitten.

Start breaking recruiting news and I'll flirt with you too, GITF.

In fact, I'll send you a Shake Weight and a case of Smirnoff Ice as soon as you share your first scoop with the board.