Kelly's 1st class(2011) vs Weis' 1st class(2006)

[KPENN]

I'm bored and just thought this would be a cool comparision, no real reason other then that and interested how the 2 compared with new coaches and etc. I used rivals rankings for this. Please don't turn this into an old coach/player thread.

2011

Rivals Rankings #10

Josh Atkinson 3 stars
George Atkinson III 4 stars
Kyle Brindza 2 stars
Jalen Brown 3 stars
Brad Carrico 3 stars
Ben Councell 4 stars
Davaris Daniels 4 stars
Matthias Farley 3 stars
Everett Golson 3 stars
Jarrett Grace 3 stars
Conor Hanratty 3 stars
Eilar Hardy 4 stars
Matthew Hegarty 4
Chase Hounshell 3 stars
Ben Koyack 4 stars
Aaron Lynch 4 stars
Nick Martin 3 stars
Cam McDaniel 3 stars
Troy Niklas 4 stars
Anthony Rabasa 3 stars
Tony Springmann 3 stars
Stephon Tuitt 5 stars
Ishaq Williams 5 stars

Total Commits-22
5*-2
4*8
3*12
Average ranking 3.48


2006

Rivals ranking #8

James Aldridge 5 stars
Sergio Brown 3 stars
Ryan Burkhart 2 stars
Matt Carufel 4 stars
Zach Frazer 4 stars
Jashaad Gaines 3 stars
Barry Gallup 3 stars
Leonard Gordon 3 stars
Richard Jackson 4 stars
Demetrius Jones 4 stars
Raeshon McNeil 4 stars
Paddy Mullen 3 stars
Eric Olsen 4 stars
Robby Parris 3 stars
Munir Prince 3
Konrad Reuland 4 stars
Morrice Richardson 3 stars
John Ryan 3 stars
Luke Schmidt 3 stars
Toryan Smith 3 stars
Chris Stewart 4 stars
Kallen Wade 3 stars
Bartley Webb 3 stars
Daniel Wenger 4 stars
George West 3 stars
Will Yeatman 3 stars
Sam Young 5 stars

Total Commits-27
5*-2
4*-10
3*15
Average Ranking 3.46

 

[NDPhilly]

Weis's was ranked higher only because he took 27 as opposed to 23

 

[RyCo1983]

Pretty evenly matched...
As long as Kelly and his staff can develop these guys the future is VERY BRIGHT!

 

[irishlaw77]

Pretty comparable in terms of perceived quality at the outset. Charlie's first class was really snakebit by transfers, injuries and even some discipline problems, so not all these guys got to play their career out at ND. I'm hoping that this 2011 class ends up with better retention and development.

 

[IrishLax]

Crazy how different they are. Look at what positions Weis focused on and had his "stars" in versus Kelly.

 

[alohagoirish]

The 2011 class has been chosen with more focus and planning , understandably since weis had never recruited at all before. Coach Kelly wanted speed on the edge and defense and recruited to accomplish that. The 2011 class needed to meet kelly's criteria for Height and versatility, two of the favorite traits kelly wants for player development. No such theories underpinned the more hodge podge approach of 2006. It also appears that kelly's skill , at least for this class, in evaluating talent is much higher then for the 2006 class.
History has unfortunately shown that the 2006 class was the most overrated in ND history with a plethera of players, many well ranked, that literally produced close to nothing in their entire career.

Aldridge/Burhardt/Careful/Frazier/Gaines/Gallup/Gordon/jackson/Jones/
Mullen/Paris/Prince/Rueland/Richardson/Ryan/Schmidt/Smith/Wade/Webb/West/Yeatman

very few yards--very few catches--very few tackles from 21 players

The difference will be night and day between the two classes.

 

[InKellyITrust]

Based on what Kelly said during his PC, he sounded very confident in his and his staff's ability to develop their players. I'm ecstatic about the versatility of this class. Also, I completely agree with Kelly's opinion that the secondary and offensive playmakers are their main targets for the class of 2012.

 

[Ben E.]

how many of those guys from charlie's first class even graduated from ND? some of those names are pretty obscure to me...

 

[irishlaw77]

Also love the ability to get the quality on the D line in 2011. Should help in getting some quality LBs and DBs next year if any of these guys make an impact.

 

[Rhode Irish]

Sergio Brown was the one guy from that Weis class who overachieved, coming in as a 3-star and now playing the NFL.

 

[irishff1014]

I think that we will see how much better of a coach that kelly is compared to Weis when it comes to player development.

 

[Who'saWildManNow]

More 3* guys panned out than 4* guys in Weis' class. Unbelievable lack of development.

 

[IrishBlood81]

how many of those guys from charlie's first class even graduated from ND? some of those names are pretty obscure to me...

Yeah I was gonna say like...even the 4-5 stars... I didn't recognize a bunch of em or just barely heard of em.

 

[DomeX2 eNVy]

More 3* guys panned out than 4* guys in Weis' class. Unbelievable lack of development.

Really? From the 2006 class there was a 4* bcs starting quarterback and a 4* bxs quasi-linebacker.




Oh, you meant at ND- didn't you? (Just teasing)

 

[IrishinSyria]

This is exactly why Weis is still the key to ND's success next year. Weis had that huge recruiting class, but he had almost no base to build on. Guys like Young had to start right away. Kelly, on the other hand, will have a great base to build around. He'll get to spend a lot more time watering the plants, because Weis and co put the soil in place.

 

[IrishSteelhead]

This is exactly why Weis is still the key to ND's success next year. Weis had that huge recruiting class, but he had almost no base to build on. Guys like Young had to start right away. Kelly, on the other hand, will have a great base to build around. He'll get to spend a lot more time watering the plants, because Weis and co put the soil in place.

Great analogy.

 

[Irish Insanity]

I believe more in what and where Kelly can take these players and this team compared to what and where Weiss took those players and that team.

 

[IrishBlood81]

This is exactly why Weis is still the key to ND's success next year. Weis had that huge recruiting class, but he had almost no base to build on. Guys like Young had to start right away. Kelly, on the other hand, will have a great base to build around. He'll get to spend a lot more time watering the plants, because Weis and co put the soil in place.

Couldn't disagree more. I really don't know what 'base' you are saying Kelly will be building 'around'? The Defense had no depth and very lacking in talent. Special Teams has really no stars and it took a walk on to get us kicking consistent field goals.
And from everything I've heard and Kelly has said...the base is what hes gotta tear down and start again. The whole entitlement thing, Attitudes from players, Conditioning...etc the list goes on.

 

[irishtrain]

I think this group will have less transfers and more guys who make a dent in their potential. Kelly was great on the CBS recruiting show and Tuitt was really a great first impression. Yes sir this yes sir that and humble. These kind of guys seem hard/tough/nasty and mentally ready to take on the responsibility of Notre Dame. I think we are in for a great ride. What was nice to see yesterday was the national media in an appreciating posture toward Notre Dame. Its almost like they would like to see someone who wins the right way-with integrity/class/collegient. Now I DO here the train coming. Here Come The Irish.

 

[Sherm Sticky]

Pretty comparable in terms of perceived quality at the outset. Charlie's first class was really snakebit by transfers, injuries and even some discipline problems, so not all these guys got to play their career out at ND. I'm hoping that this 2011 class ends up with better retention and development.

^This...you nailed it!

 

[phgreek]

Couldn't disagree more. I really don't know what 'base' you are saying Kelly will be building 'around'? The Defense had no depth and very lacking in talent. Special Teams has really no stars and it took a walk on to get us kicking consistent field goals.
And from everything I've heard and Kelly has said...the base is what hes gotta tear down and start again. The whole entitlement thing, Attitudes from players, Conditioning...etc the list goes on.

...I don't know...I mean yea Kelly said that, but he also said the raw material on defense is critical...If I take Kelly at his word, and I look at what the defense turned into, I'd say CW had a couple good gets on D...something to build on for sure...

On offense...sheesh, not even goin there...He left PLENTY of "Base".

...CW and staff did not leave the cupboard as bare as what they received. As well, he showed you could recruit at ND...

let me ask you this...does Kelly take the job if CW hadn't dispelled the recruiting misconception/perception that were "crazy davie" and "don't give a damn willingham's" legacy?

I will always come down on the side that CW benefited the program...and that we owe him a nod for where we are, and what we will become...

 

[Junkhead]

The 2006 class looked good on paper, but looking back, it ended up a train wreck. I have confidence that the new staff can develop players better. The 2011 class is more D focused also.

 

[IrishAlum1997]

The 2006 class looked good on paper, but looking back, it ended up a train wreck. I have confidence that the new staff can develop players better. The 2011 class is more D focused also.

Agreed on this one. This is the one class that I will agree with the ESPN jerks that think our class rankings get overinflated.

Hindsight is 20/20, of course, but after our classes in 2004-2006, it's a minor miracle we're on the doorstep of where we all think we are.....

 

[IrishMoore1]

James Aldridge (5 star) was a huge bust. All he could do was run in a straight line. Kallen Wade was a scrub. He claimed he would be an every down player. He never played a meaningful down. According to und.com, he played a total of 10 min in all 4 years he was at nd. smh

Most of the 2006 class either transferred or turned out to be busts.

 

[BGIF]

Rivals ranking #8

James Aldridge 5 stars -RB Arrived with ACL. Played but never regained top form.
Sergio Brown 3 stars - DB ST as Fr. ST&DB So. Became Starter as Jr. NFL
Ryan Burkhart 2 stars - K Became K.O. Specialist
Matt Carufel 4 stars - RG 3 career starts at ND. Got beaten out and quit. Transfer to Minnesota. Started 21 games there.
Zach Frazer 4 stars - QB Loss the QB derby to Clausen, Sharpley, and Detetrius Jones. DNP at ND. Transferto Connecticut. 2 year+ Starter. Took CT to '10 BCS game.
Jashaad Gaines 3 stars - S Played in 5 games as Fr., 4 as So. Dropped out over "personal issues in '08 and did not return to ND. Transfer. May have ended up at Texas Southern.
Barry Gallup 3 stars - WR, RB, KR, ST "Where do you need me coach?" RKG, ND Man. Spent 5 years at ND, played in 30+ games and got 2 degrees. Currently earning 6 figure income.
Leonard Gordon 3 stars - S Primarily ST player, saw little action at DB. DNP as Fr. No 5th Yr.
Richard Jackson 4 stars - WR Primarily ST as Fr. 2 minutes PT at WR. Injuries. DNP as So. Buried on Depth Chart. Transfer to UCF with NCAA Waiver.
Demetrius Jones 4 stars - QB With FR Clausen recovring from elbow surgery. Jones started ahead of Sharpley in GT debacle. Weis Spread experiment. DNP again "missing the bus" and transfer. Ended up at Cincinnati and became LB.

Raeshon McNeil 4 stars - CB - Played all 4 yrs. Last 2 as Starter.
Paddy Mullen 3 stars - DL DNPN as FR. Career backup DT as upperclassmen
Eric Olsen 4 stars - RG Quality PT as Fr. Beat out Carufel midway through So season and started every game from then on. 3 Yr Starter Robby Parris 3 stars - WR 4 yr player. So Starter. lost PT when Tate & Floyd arrived.
Munir Prince 3 stars - RB/CB Backup RB as Fr. Moved to CB as So. Transfer MU.
Konrad Reuland 4 stars TE Highly ranked recruit. Played as Fr. Lost out to Yeatman and Ragone. Then Rudolph and Fauria verballed to ND. Transfer to Juco then Stanford.
Morrice Richardson 3 stars - 4 year player primarliy as pass rush specialist
John Ryan 3 stars - DE/OLB 4 year player Started about half his games.
Luke Schmidt 3 stars - FB DNP as Fr. Backup as So. Multiple concussion Career Ending Injury. Toryan Smith 3 stars - LB
Chris Stewart 4 stars - OG DNP as Fr. Backup RT as So. 3 yr Starter. Started all but 3 games (knee injury) as Jr. plus Sr & 5th Yr. Law School Student.
Kallen Wade 3 stars OLB/DE DNP as Fr. Career backup.
Bartley Webb 3 stars - OT Career Ending Injury Shoulder
Daniel Wenger 4 stars - OC Part-time Starter. Multiple concussions. Currently applying for NCAA Medical 6th year.
George West 3 stars - Played in 13 games as FR. Played in 12 as So Starting 7. Injured as Jr and saw little PT. Then came Tate & Floyd.
Will Yeatman 3 stars - TE also lettered in LAX. Transferafter 2 run-ins with ResLife.
Sam Young 5 stars - OT 4 Yr Starter. Didn't live up to forecast as next "Aaron Taylor" Combination of injuries and questionable coaching.

Total Commits-27
5*-2
4*-10
3*15
Average Ranking 3.46

 

[IrishinSyria]

Couldn't disagree more.

You have my attention.

I really don't know what 'base' you are saying Kelly will be building 'around'? The Defense had no depth and very lacking in talent.

You're right about one thing, we couldn't disagree more. Instead of going player by player and talking about our defense's depth and talent levels, allow me to compare two players: Ian Williams and Louis Nix.

Ian was a well-regarded 3 star player. Louis was a highly touted 4 star recruit. Ian played in all 12 games his freshman year, because we needed him to. Nix, on the other hand, was able to spend his freshman year red-shirting. You can believe whatever you like, but the bottom line is that Weis revived ND. Kelly has more raw material to work with and it's of much higher quality; he should end up with a masterpiece.

Special Teams has really no stars and it took a walk on to get us kicking consistent field goals.

Are you familiar with Nick Tausch? You know, the guy who kicked one field goal this year? He was our starting kicker for a while and did a very respectable job. We didn't get a walk-on because we needed to, we got a walk on because we had a freak athlete on campus and Weis saw that he was too good to keep off the team just because we already had 2 scholarship kickers.

And from everything I've heard and Kelly has said...the base is what hes gotta tear down and start again. The whole entitlement thing, Attitudes from players, Conditioning...etc the list goes on.

Now your confusing me. I thought we were talking about recruiting (i.e. the raw material). This looks a lot like what happens after the players get here (i.e. the sculpting). Unless you're saying Weis recruited players with bad attitudes???

Yes... maybe... the program came down with an attitude problem. And you'll notice I haven't posted "Weis shouldn't have been fired". We very well may have needed new blood and a new attitude to shake things up a bit. BUT it's one thing to have to shake things up- it's another thing to be needing things to shake. That's the difference between Ty and Weis, which is really what my point was about.

 

[tankjeep]

Pretty comparable in terms of perceived quality at the outset. Charlie's first class was really snakebit by transfers, injuries and even some discipline problems, so not all these guys got to play their career out at ND. I'm hoping that this 2011 class ends up with better retention and development.

^this. well put.

 

[irishff1014]

Pretty comparable in terms of perceived quality at the outset. Charlie's first class was really snakebit by transfers, injuries and even some discipline problems, so not all these guys got to play their career out at ND. I'm hoping that this 2011 class ends up with better retention and development.

But this is the kinda guys that Wies liked. He liked that they got get in to ND and play football but didn't care how they acted.

 

[Sherm Sticky]

Rivals ranking #8

James Aldridge 5 stars -RB Arrived with ACL. Played but never regained top form.
Sergio Brown 3 stars - DB ST as Fr. ST&DB So. Became Starter as Jr. Actually didn't start till Sr year. NFL
Ryan Burkhart 2 stars - K Became K.O. Specialist
Matt Carufel 4 stars - RG 3 career starts at ND. Got beaten out and quit. Transfer to Minnesota. Started 21 games there.
Zach Frazer 4 stars - QB Loss the QB derby to Clausen, Sharpley, and Detetrius Jones. DNP at ND. Transferto Connecticut. 2 year+ Starter. Took CT to '10 BCS game.
Jashaad Gaines 3 stars - S Played in 5 games as Fr., 4 as So. Dropped out over "personal issues in '08 and did not return to ND. Transfer. May have ended up at Texas Southern.
Barry Gallup 3 stars - WR, RB, KR, ST "Where do you need me coach?" RKG, ND Man. Spent 5 years at ND, played in 30+ games and got 2 degrees. Currently earning 6 figure income.
Leonard Gordon 3 stars - S Primarily ST player, saw little action at DB. DNP as Fr. No 5th Yr.
Richard Jackson 4 stars - WR Primarily ST as Fr. 2 minutes PT at WR. Injuries. DNP as So. Buried on Depth Chart. Transfer to UCF with NCAA Waiver.
Demetrius Jones 4 stars - QB With FR Clausen recovring from elbow surgery. Jones started ahead of Sharpley in GT debacle. Weis Spread experiment. DNP again "missing the bus" and transfer. Ended up at Cincinnati and became LB Ended up getting kicked off the team at Cincy
Raeshon McNeil 4 stars - CB - Played all 4 yrs. Last 2 as Starter.
Paddy Mullen 3 stars - DL DNPN as FR. Career backup DT as upperclassmen
Eric Olsen 4 stars - RG Quality PT as Fr. Beat out Carufel midway through So season and started every game from then on. 3 Yr Starter NFL Robby Parris 3 stars - WR 4 yr player. So Starter. lost PT when Tate & Floyd arrived.
Munir Prince 3 stars - RB/CB Backup RB as Fr. Moved to CB as So. Transfer MU. Suffered serious neck injuury during fall practice in 2010 [/B]
Konrad Reuland 4 stars TE Highly ranked recruit. Played as Fr. Lost out to Yeatman and Ragone. Then Rudolph and Fauria verballed to ND. Transfer to Juco then Stanford.
Morrice Richardson 3 stars - 4 year player primarliy as pass rush specialist
John Ryan 3 stars - DE/OLB 4 year player Started about half his games.
Luke Schmidt 3 stars - FB DNP as Fr. Backup as So. Multiple concussion Career Ending Injury. Toryan Smith 3 stars - LB
Chris Stewart 4 stars - OG DNP as Fr. Backup RT as So. 3 yr Starter. Started all but 3 games (knee injury) as Jr. plus Sr & 5th Yr. Law School Student.
Kallen Wade 3 stars OLB/DE DNP as Fr. Career backup.
Bartley Webb 3 stars - OT Career Ending Injury Shoulder
Daniel Wenger 4 stars - OC Part-time Starter. Multiple concussions. Currently applying for NCAA Medical 6th year.
George West 3 stars - Played in 13 games as FR. Played in 12 as So Starting 7. Injured as Jr and saw little PT. Then came Tate & Floyd.
Will Yeatman 3 stars - TE also lettered in LAX. Transferafter 2 run-ins with ResLife.
Sam Young 5 stars - OT 4 Yr Starter. Didn't live up to forecast as next "Aaron Taylor" Combination of injuries and questionable coaching.

Total Commits-27
5*-2
4*-10
3*15
Average Ranking 3.46

Just added a little more in bold and red to your great synopsis.

 

[IrishLax]

Will Yeatman..... would have 2 rings right now were it not for his off the field issues. Sigh.