'23 MO RB Jeremiyah Love (Notre Dame Signee)

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JamIrish

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PutuporShutup said:
you do NOT go down at the one, because they still had timeouts and 2 minute warning. We frichan missed the extra point, anything can happen.

Honestly, i can't believe how nice ND fans are being to buchner and dropping a perfect extra point snap. Not that I think anyone should be mean, but it's hardly talked about. Everyone makes mistakes, but I can't believe he can be the holder moving forward. How can you put someone back there that will always have that moment in the back of their mind.
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It was Buchner laughing on the sideline for me after he botched the hold. Before A&M drove down he seemed nonchalant and then his whole demeanor changed when he realized the game was in jeopardy.
 
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NumbersGuy0520

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I have a PhD in Math and follow/understand a lot in the analytics & decision making circles, so I feel like I have a bit of ground to stand on when I say:

- With three minutes still to go and Texas A&M still having 3 timeouts, Love absolutely should not have fallen down at the 1. You are risking the sure thing (TD) for basically no reason. Their probability of tying with 3 min left, no timeouts is basically the same, but we might turn the ball over or not score the TD.
- Draining the clock on our drive was also the right move. Especially once we got in FG range. I don’t care how bad your defense is; if you are trying to score to go ahead late, you try leave as little time for your opponent as possible. Especially if you are going to score the TD. Sucks that Buchner bobbled the XP, but this game should have gone OT, or we win if we get the stop on 4th and 11. You make sequences of decisions to maximize your win probability, and I can guarantee you that scoring a go ahead TD with 3min to go gives us a higher win probability than scoring with 5-7 min left to go.

I have many issues with the defensive coaching and with the offensive playcalling, but clock and game management has been an advantage for us. Treash was a very good hire and I’m glad a young coach like Freeman isn’t managing this himself.
 
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PutuporShutup

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ab2cmiller said:
That's because we gave up 41 points. Everyone recognizes the real problem. If we gave up 28 points, I believe there would be a lot different reaction to Buchner's flub. It's also the reason why most ND fans aren't screaming bloody hell about Hinish being tackled on the go ahead play. There would also be a huge outcry to that hold if we only gave up 28 points.
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The video of Hinish being tackled is/was all over social media. I've hardly seen a replay of buchner dropping the snap.

Yeah, we all know defense is the bigger issue, but it would be really nice to be 1-1 with our defensive issues, just like 2020 vs Clemson. We should have won the game despite our defense, and had a chance to fix it while controlling our CFP destiny still.
 
ThePiombino

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For those wondering if Love should have gone down at the one -- imagine he does and we can't punch the ball in and then Buchner drops the snap on the go ahead FG attempt instead of the XP...
 
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IrishTusker

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I mean, we couldn't convert on 3rd & 1 and 4th & 1 earlier in the game. The OC doesn't exactly draw up amazing plays in those situations. You have to go score.

Plus Carr was tipping plays, which apparently none of our coaches noticed. (Glad the A&M coaches are there to tell us about these things.)
 
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IrishFanForever23

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IrishTusker said:
I mean, we couldn't convert on 3rd & 1 and 4th & 1 earlier in the game. The OC doesn't exactly draw up amazing plays in those situations. You have to go score.

Plus Carr was tipping plays, which apparently none of our coaches noticed. (Glad the A&M coaches are there to tell us about these things.)
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Tipping plays to the point of we scored 40 points so it didn't help A&M that much. Also, you're wrong on ND coaches not noticing. It was reported they did notice and adjusted things.
 
Dale

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NumbersGuy0520 said:
Draining the clock on our drive was also the right move. Especially once we got in FG range. I don’t care how bad your defense is; if you are trying to score to go ahead late, you try leave as little time for your opponent as possible. Especially if you are going to score the TD. Sucks that Buchner bobbled the XP, but this game should have gone OT, or we win if we get the stop on 4th and 11. You make sequences of decisions to maximize your win probability, and I can guarantee you that scoring a go ahead TD with 3min to go gives us a higher win probability than scoring with 5-7 min left to go.
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I agree the analytics in a vacuum point towards it. They entered A&M territory with 7:50.

The offense had been explosive all day. The defense has been bad all day. Running out the clock works under the assumption both of those would change.

The idea that we are at the 40 yard line with almost 8 minutes left in that game and thinking we don’t need the ball on offense again just doesn’t sit right with me in the context of the game.

They managed it like they had an elite defense with Riley Leonard getting 3 yards a run. It ain’t 2024 anymore.
 
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NumbersGuy0520

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Dale said:
I agree the analytics in a vacuum point towards it. They entered A&M territory with 7:50.

The offense had been explosive all day. The defense has been bad all day. Running out the clock works under the assumption both of those would change.

The idea that we are at the 40 yard line with almost 8 minutes left in that game and thinking we don’t need the ball on offense again just doesn’t sit right with me in the context of the game.

They managed it like they had an elite defense with Riley Leonard getting 3 yards a run. It ain’t 2024 anymore.
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I get what you’re saying. The argument is almost the football equivalent of going 2 for 1 at the end of the quarter in basketball.

But our 2H defense had allowed just 20 yards per Texas A&M possession, and just two FGs on four possessions. Also us scoring the TD with not much time left makes them a bit more one dimensional. Yeah, technically they get an extra down now, but I’d rather just defend the endzone with 2 min to go than further extend the game. Didn’t work out but I do think it’s what we should’ve done.
 
ulukinatme

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FightingIrishLover7 said:
Has anyone discussed Love could have gone down at the 1 yard line to try and burn some clock/ force timeouts?

(Yes I'm still miserable, and no I don't think he should have, and yes I can't stop thinking about whatifs)
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I don't know if it was discussed here, but I said it Saturday night when I was watching the game at the neighbor's house. We could have run the clock down at the 1 foot line and had 4 attempts to get it in from there. With the way the defense was playing I 100% would have gone that route. A&M needed about 2:20 to get down the field. If we burn ~40 seconds off on just one play on our previous TD drive that forces A&M to take deeper and dangerous shots to make up time. If we take our time at the 1 foot line, we could have potentially left them with as little as 15-20 seconds to work with if we use all 4 downs. I wouldn't have intentionally gone that far, but we didn't need to be in a hurry to score given the awful defense.
 
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T-Boone

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It’s a shame he got violated on that ridiculous 4th down direct snap thing. Was that a horrid call or did someone totally screw up? He had no chance.
 
stlnd01

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ulukinatme said:
I don't know if it was discussed here, but I said it Saturday night when I was watching the game at the neighbor's house. We could have run the clock down at the 1 foot line and had 4 attempts to get it in from there. With the way the defense was playing I 100% would have gone that route. A&M needed about 2:20 to get down the field. If we burn ~40 seconds off on just one play on our previous TD drive that forces A&M to take deeper and dangerous shots to make up time. If we take our time at the 1 foot line, we could have potentially left them with as little as 15-20 seconds to work with if we use all 4 downs. I wouldn't have intentionally gone that far, but we didn't need to be in a hurry to score given the awful defense.
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I'm not sure. A&M only used one timeout on their last drive (they ended the game with one TO in their pocket). They also had the 2-minute warning. Time wasn't that big a factor for them, really (especially after they hit the long catch and run to get to like our 20. After that they mostly were throwing short/intermediate passes and we were trading penalties). If Love goes down on the half-yard line, maybe they burn one of their TOs or like 30 seconds of clock but we probably punch it in on the next play and they still get it back with time for a drive.

The bigger, ballsier, move would've been declining the penalty on the kick return, giving them the go-ahead points, and betting that we score last.
 
ulukinatme

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stlnd01 said:
I'm not sure. A&M only used one timeout on their last drive (they ended the game with one TO in their pocket). They also had the 2-minute warning. Time wasn't that big a factor for them, really (especially after they hit the long catch and run to get to like our 20. After that they mostly were throwing short/intermediate passes and we were trading penalties). If Love goes down on the half-yard line, maybe they burn one of their TOs or like 30 seconds of clock but we probably punch it in on the next play and they still get it back with time for a drive.

The bigger, ballsier, move would've been declining the penalty on the kick return, giving them the go-ahead points, and betting that we score last.
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That's true, I forgot about the other TO. Still, there's a possibility we get stuffed a few times at the 1 foot line and eat more clock. Maybe A&M just lets us score so they get the ball back quicker, who knows. Given our defensive performance I still like our chances better milking clock for a play or two. The less time A&M has to work with, the more they have to push the ball instead of play conservative.
 
BeauBenken

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I am coming from a place of appreciation...

But I sat there after his story and really thought "Love on the Spectrum" became the new calling card here. I think it would be a sick tee. Ha

Awesome dude on and off and happy he can maybe help other young people feel better about themselves and their quirks and abilities.
 
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