College Athletics Branding - Name Image Likeness Rules

ab2cmiller

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I know what the article was discussing, I linked it to show that ND's status as a 501(c)(3) didnt automatically make it subject to Title IX. The question posed in my original post was whether ND accepts federal financial aid for students. I agree that if they do, they are likely subject to Title IX. I'm just not sure that they do.
They do. I know for sure they accept Federal Student Loans and I'm sure they also accept Pell Grant dollars. Although it is logical to argue that simply accepting Federal Student Loans is not "financial assistance" to the University. The Federal Government disagrees.
 

IRISHDODGER

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I mean what is the DoE going to do if every big institution just tells them to fuck off and proceeds as planned?
that’s my thought as well. I think most fans see the writing on the wall that the big power conferences will unite & breakaway from the NCAA to form their own alliance. Maybe it’ll be all 4 P4 conferences or just SEC + B1G but it looks inevitable.
 
I

irishu

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This problem is easily solved with a modification to the spring game. Rather than have the Blue and Gold Game, ND should introduce the Male and Female Game

Each April, the offense and defense compete for the right to stay on the roster as males. The losing side has to identify as females for the course of the next year.
 

Pops Freshenmeyer

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The Kavanagh opinion absolutely does mention Title IX, and it notes that with direct compensation from schools that question would need to be squared with litigation, legislation, or collective bargaining. The route taken for starters was litigation + settlement. In that settlement, there were no restrictions on who would get paid what money, the schools were effectively free to do whatever they wanted within the cap. And, most importantly, the backpay part of the settlement is more-or-less earmarked for football stars... there is a claims process that is expected to pay out up to $1.85 million max to a former player out of a $2.8 billion pool, and the amount you get is based on things (generally) tied to the revenue/ratings/etc. you produced.

Very clearly in the intent of the claims process from that settlement -- a field hockey player from Duke is not going to get the same payout as a football player from Bama.

Then, seemingly out of nowhere, the DoE decrees that women need to receive equal revenue ... not just from the cap and settlement, but also potentially from 3rd party NIL ... the latter part of that being batshit insane and completely misaligned with the O'Bannon case, Alston case, NCAA NIL rules, and the House settlement. They're trying to legislate swimmers with no Q score getting the same 3rd party money as Arch Manning and his cohorts, and that's bonkers level absurd.
Kavanaugh's opinion was a concurrence that 8 justices read and declined to sign. It has no precedential value but it's full of juicy quotes so reporting on the decision focused on that. It is not law.

The House settlement is deliberately sidestepping these issues. It's been known and openly discussed. The Knight Commission had a panel back in September and said this:

On a discussion of Title IX and impact of potential new revenue sharing payments (e.g. “fund payments”) in House v. NCAA settlement:
“As noted earlier, Title IX expressly includes opportunities and benefits associated with athletics participation. Fund payments clearly are both athletics opportunities and benefits of participation, and I would say just as education related as barbershop chairs, gaming systems, DJ’s, and sleeping pods in locker rooms, and those are all covered under Title IX.”

“…In short, I believe the question is not whether Title IX applies, but rather how Title IX will apply.”

Janet Judge, Attorney, Partner, Education & Sports Law Group LLC

What I'm trying to say is this conclusion of yours:

Then, seemingly out of nowhere, the DoE decrees that women need to receive equal revenue ... not just from the cap and settlement, but also potentially from 3rd party NIL ... the latter part of that being batshit insane and completely misaligned with the O'Bannon case, Alston case, NCAA NIL rules, and the House settlement. They're trying to legislate swimmers with no Q score getting the same 3rd party money as Arch Manning and his cohorts, and that's bonkers level absurd.

is wrong in several respects. The DoE's ruling is not that women need to receive equal value; Title IX does not apply at ALL to third parties, only to revenue sharing from schools; and I don't know why you think the House settlement would obviate federal regulations.
 

IrishLax

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Kavanaugh's opinion was a concurrence that 8 justices read and declined to sign. It has no precedential value but it's full of juicy quotes so reporting on the decision focused on that. It is not law.

The House settlement is deliberately sidestepping these issues. It's been known and openly discussed. The Knight Commission had a panel back in September and said this:



What I'm trying to say is this conclusion of yours:



is wrong in several respects. The DoE's ruling is not that women need to receive equal value; Title IX does not apply at ALL to third parties, only to revenue sharing from schools; and I don't know why you think the House settlement would obviate federal regulations.
It specifically says that NIL payments from collectives need to adhere to Title IX.
Schools remain responsible for ensuring that they are offering equal athletic opportunities in their athletic programs, including in the NIL context. A school may violate Title IX if the school fails to provide equivalent benefits, opportunities, and treatment in the components of the school’s athletic program that relate to NIL activities. Thus, schools must be mindful of their Title IX obligations regarding the components of their athletic programs as they navigate the NIL landscape. These obligations apply regardless of whether student-athletes ultimately secure NIL benefits through their school or with third parties.

They then acknowledge later that "yeah third party compensation obviously wouldn't apply as an 'educational benefit' if we were using logic, but fuck it let's make a giant stretch to say that if independent fans of a program paid more marketing money to men that'd get you sued too" :
As discussed in Part Four, compensation provided by a school for the use of a student-athlete’s NIL constitutes athletic financial assistance under Title IX. By contrast, OCR does not view compensation provided by a third party (rather than a school) to a student-athlete for use of their NIL as constituting athletic financial assistance awarded by the school that must comply with 34 C.F.R. § 106.37(c). However, OCR has long recognized that a school has Title IX obligations when funding from private sources, including private donations and funds raised by booster clubs, creates disparities based on sex in a school’s athletic program or a program component. 30 The fact that funds are provided by a private source does not relieve a school of its responsibility to treat all of its student-athletes in a nondiscriminatory manner.31 It is possible that NIL agreements between student-athletes and third parties will create similar disparities and therefore trigger a school’s Title IX obligations.

That's direct text from here: https://www.ed.gov/media/document/ocr-factsheet-benefits-student-athletes
 

ab2cmiller

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It specifically says that NIL payments from collectives need to adhere to Title IX.


They then acknowledge later that "yeah third party compensation obviously wouldn't apply as an 'educational benefit' if we were using logic, but fuck it let's make a giant stretch to say that if independent fans of a program paid more marketing money to men that'd get you sued too" :


That's direct text from here: https://www.ed.gov/media/document/ocr-factsheet-benefits-student-athletes
Thank you for this Lax. This is really mind boggling stance bye the DOE
 

NDRock

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This is what I was curious about. How can they come up with a “cap” if there is no collective bargaining agreement? Wouldn’t some athlete just sue for more money via anti trust? I’m talking about the $20 million figure that has been thrown around that the schools would pay directly.
 

irishff1014

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Have to break the politics rule here because this blends directly into sports:

This is a truly insane position by the Department of Education that has potential to destroy all of college sports. Pray that the upcoming guy puts someone in charge of DoE who immediately reverses this guidance.


It’s the government. End of the story
 

IrishLax

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This is what I was curious about. How can they come up with a “cap” if there is no collective bargaining agreement? Wouldn’t some athlete just sue for more money via anti trust? I’m talking about the $20 million figure that has been thrown around that the schools would pay directly.

It's basically been treated like the settlement of a class action suit.

Big picture -- there first needs to be congressional legislation on this topic. After that, it makes it much easier to collectively bargain or do whatever else you need to do.
 

NDRock

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It's basically been treated like the settlement of a class action suit.

Big picture -- there first needs to be congressional legislation on this topic. After that, it makes it much easier to collectively bargain or do whatever else you need to do.
Gotcha. Thanks.
 

ulukinatme

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I like 12, seems like a good number. If you can't get Top 12, you don't deserve to be in. Every team that whined "But my SEC <insert mascot here> could have won the playoff!" ended up losing their bowl game anyway or they had 3 losses during the regular season, 2 of which were probably embarrassing.
 

GATTACA!

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I like 12, seems like a good number. If you can't get Top 12, you don't deserve to be in. Every team that whined "But my SEC <insert mascot here> could have won the playoff!" ended up losing their bowl game anyway or they had 3 losses during the regular season, 2 of which were probably embarrassing.
As far as we're concerned 8, 14, and 16 are all better numbers. I know it didn't work out that way this year, but byes football are powerful.
 

IrishLax

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Department of Education has rescinded the absurd guidance on NIL Title IX compliance

 

ndfanatic78

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that’s my thought as well. I think most fans see the writing on the wall that the big power conferences will unite & breakaway from the NCAA to form their own alliance. Maybe it’ll be all 4 P4 conferences or just SEC + B1G but it looks inevitable.
And that will kill college athletics as a whole including the P4. What is the actual population that went to any of those P4 schools. It’s just crazy how much this stuff has become about the money. None of college sports used to be profitable for the schools. They did it for the sport of it and school camaraderie. This all just sucks now.
 

Rockin’Irish

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Did anyone see the article where Carson Beck and his girlfriend had their vehicles stolen down in Miami? Hers was only mentioned as an SUV but Beck‘s stolen vehicles were a Mercedes and a Lamborghini.
 
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