‘21 AL QB Riley Leonard (Duke Transfer - Notre Dame Verbal)

T-Boone

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I am surprised Harold Perkins is so low in these mocks. He was top 3 bound after his first season.
 
Jimmy3Putt

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He was predicted to be a day one pick last year around this time. The injury derailed that.
 
stlnd01

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Jimmy3Putt said:
He was predicted to be a day one pick last year around this time. The injury derailed that.
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I remember. But even before he got hurt that felt like a stretch tbh, based off people projecting growth off his ‘22 season. (Especially in last years loaded QB class).

Leonard’s always had the physical tools, but the other stuff was a work in progress. He did not look like a first-round pick against us, for instance. If he looks like one against the better teams on our schedule this year, we’re gonna win a lot of games.
 
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Leonard has good size and intangibles for the position that Hartman lacked. It’s my biggest concern with Carr, he’s a bit smaller (shorter) than I thought, or at least looks that way. Not too short by any means though.
 
Veritate Duce Progredi

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stlnd01 said:
I remember. But even before he got hurt that felt like a stretch tbh, based off people projecting growth off his ‘22 season. (Especially in last years loaded QB class).

Leonard’s always had the physical tools, but the other stuff was a work in progress. He did not look like a first-round pick against us, for instance. If he looks like one against the better teams on our schedule this year, we’re gonna win a lot of games.
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To be fair, Caleb Williams didn't look like the first overall selection in the 24 draft against ND's defense. Golden and his staff/players made a lot of really good players look much worse.

I'm going to stoke the fire of Riley Leonard being a potential first rounder until he proves us wrong. He's athletic AF and has plenty of arm strength. If he can make the reads and stay within himself as the pressure grows, his draft potential is through the roof. Pairing him with Denbrock is a good reason for unbridled optimism in July. The morning of the A&M game, we can all develop the nerves/uncertainty. Let's pump this thing to the moon in the interim.
 
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stlnd01

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Veritate Duce Progredi said:
To be fair, Caleb Williams didn't look like the first overall selection in the 24 draft against ND's defense. Golden and his staff/players made a lot of really good players look much worse.

I'm going to stoke the fire of Riley Leonard being a potential first rounder until he proves us wrong. He's athletic AF and has plenty of arm strength. If he can make the reads and stay within himself as the pressure grows, his draft potential is through the roof. Pairing him with Denbrock is a good reason for unbridled optimism in July. The morning of the A&M game, we can all develop the nerves/uncertainty. Let's pump this thing to the moon in the interim.
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Ha. Fair. I’m all for preseason sunshine pumping, and I agree Leonard has tons of potential. I just also remember the Sam “best QB in 15 years” Hartman train to nowhere, and wary of getting burned again so soon.
 
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stlnd01 said:
Ha. Fair. I’m all for preseason sunshine pumping, and I agree Leonard has tons of potential. I just also remember the Sam “best QB in 15 years” Hartman train to nowhere, and wary of getting burned again so soon.
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It was the best season an ND qb had since clausen 2009. That’s more of a reflection of nd having solid/good qb play under Kelly but never great
 
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stlnd01 said:
I like Hartman, to be clear, and I understand about the WR room, but in what sense was he meaningfully better than Coan, Book, 2015 Kizer, Golson with his head on straight…
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Qb rating … how you rate qbs

It wasn’t good enough. Not disagreeing with that. But the stats are the stats

Meaningfully better, probably not. statistically better, yes.
 
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stlnd01

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PutuporShutup said:
Qb rating … how you rate qbs

It wasn’t good enough. Not disagreeing with that. But the stats are the stats

Meaningfully better, probably not. statistically better, yes.
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OK, fine, you made me look it up and Hartman's QBR of 159.5 last year was indeed modestly better than anyone we've had since Clausen The next best being Drew Pyne in '22 at 155.3 (which raises questions about the relevance of QBR as a metric). Book had a 154 in 2018. Coan and Kizer in 2015 were the only other seasons that topped 150. Congrats, by that measure Sam Hartman was indeed the "best QB we've had in 15 years."

Given how those guys panned out in the draft, if Leonard is indeed worthy of the No. 20 pick, I expect him to smash Hartman's record.
 
IrishLion

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Hartman was amazing in the context of his situation.

Majorly handicapped by both his OC and the WR room, but still kept things afloat when the playcalling wasn’t losing games.

Only blemish was the Louisville game… they just had Sam’s number for some reason.
 
stlnd01

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IrishLion said:
Hartman was amazing in the context of his situation.

Majorly handicapped by both his OC and the WR room, but still kept things afloat when the playcalling wasn’t losing games.

Only blemish was the Louisville game… they just had Sam’s number for some reason.
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Nothing but respect for Sam.

He was a smart veteran who made few mistakes, a class act who hung in after the OC he came to play for bailed (when I’m sure he could’ve gotten a big check from Bama) and a leader who I suspect did a lot to bring along a bunch of young WRs and the QBs behind him. Considering the circumstances and other options, he was what we needed last season.

But he wasn’t the program-altering quarterback a lot of people were hyping him as at this time last year. That’s OK. Expectations for Hartman were a little out of whack with his natural talent, in retrospect. It just makes me a little wary to drink too much Leonard kool-aid this time is all.
 
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No Leonard Kool-Aid for me either. He's really good when healthy. That last part is important. I don't trust him to play a full season, so I am not getting my hopes up.
 
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stlnd01 said:
OK, fine, you made me look it up and Hartman's QBR of 159.5 last year was indeed modestly better than anyone we've had since Clausen The next best being Drew Pyne in '22 at 155.3 (which raises questions about the relevance of QBR as a metric). Book had a 154 in 2018. Coan and Kizer in 2015 were the only other seasons that topped 150. Congrats, by that measure Sam Hartman was indeed the "best QB we've had in 15 years."

Given how those guys panned out in the draft, if Leonard is indeed worthy of the No. 20 pick, I expect him to smash Hartman's record.
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Agree 100%

The fact our top in 15 years is 159 is not good. Heisman qbs sometimes push over 200. That’s how far our qb play has been from the best.
 
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stlnd01 said:
Nothing but respect for Sam.

He was a smart veteran who made few mistakes, a class act who hung in after the OC he came to play for bailed (when I’m sure he could’ve gotten a big check from Bama) and a leader who I suspect did a lot to bring along a bunch of young WRs and the QBs behind him. Considering the circumstances and other options, he was what we needed last season.

But he wasn’t the program-altering quarterback a lot of people were hyping him as at this time last year. That’s OK. Expectations for Hartman were a little out of whack with his natural talent, in retrospect. It just makes me a little wary to drink too much Leonard kool-aid this time is all.
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We needed a dynamic running qb with the OC and wrs we had last year. We only beat Duke and were only in the game vs Clemson due to Hartman legs. And he wasn’t a great runner.
 
NDohio

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LifelongFan said:
No Leonard Kool-Aid for me either. He's really good when healthy. That last part is important. I don't trust him to play a full season, so I am not getting my hopes up.
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Why the concern? He has had one injury. That’s it, one. It’s not like he misses games for bumps and bruises. The one injury would have most likely sidelined most QBs immediately. He made an effort to play on that ankle and that was probably a mistake. Now that ankle is fully healed.
 
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NDohio said:
Why the concern? He has had one injury. That’s it, one. It’s not like he misses games for bumps and bruises. The one injury would have most likely sidelined most QBs immediately. He made an effort to play on that ankle and that was probably a mistake. Now that ankle is fully healed.
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Concern probably many have is the amount of time and procedures it took to get healthy for that one injury and impacts it had overall. Yea he tried to rush back but it’s not like it just healed after he shut it down. It flared up again at nd and required procedure.

It was a September injury that required a procedure still in March the following year, and caused a toe injury.

I hope he’s good, but that’s a lot of extra stuff for one ankle injury.
 
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