Another Shooting

[Blazers46]

Wait, if trans people are committing shootings.....does that mean......that there should be controls on their access to guns.....wait, imagine the progress that could happen if we extrapolate it to those nasty urban folks (gross!).....ok now we're cooking.......wait a sec......if we do that....then the libz will take our guns!?! Ok ok ok, never mind, thoughts and uhhh prayers?

You best not be teaching anymore calculus to cats! Cuz duh cats will say something like "Early stats show a drop in almost every serious crime, except auto theft" they'll try and use biased sources like "Christian Science Monitor or FBI", not you smart guy, you argue with facts and reason NOT emotion! Huzzah!

Did US homicide rate rise or fall in 2023? The answer might surprise you.

The U.S. homicide rate dropped by the most on record in 2023 – a welcome reversal after pandemic spikes in violence.

www.csmonitor.com

Trans suicide? What?

Denial? Lmao whether or not a shooter is trans should not change your position on guns. I'm laughing at you for jumping to talk about this shooting like you're a serious person "We gots to do sumthin about da tranz!", when there's shootings everyday but ehhhhhh that's just because the teacher didn't have 6 glocks or the mall security should have a silenced AK.

Who cares lmao shootings will continue until more guns are given out or something like that.

But you just argued homicides rates are dropping 🧐

 

[Armyirish47]

Like Toronto pointed out crime rates are dropping. 😉

They are indeed, but with Drayer on board with responsible laws to address the problem think how much lower they can go!

 

[TorontoGold]

But you just argued homicides rates are dropping 🧐

They are! You read my post! That's a big step from earlier today when you were confused.

Because something is dropping, and is still really bad that doesn't mean "mission accomplished". But hey, like I said - who cares? It's cultural issues, or fatherless homes, or video games, or teachers not having guns in the desk!

Moar gunz Stop trans

 

[Blazers46]

They are! You read my post! That's a big step from earlier today when you were confused.

Because something is dropping, and is still really bad that doesn't mean "mission accomplished". But hey, like I said - who cares? It's cultural issues, or fatherless homes, or video games, or teachers not having guns in the desk!

Moar gunz Stop trans

Culture and fatherless homes, I agree. But you mock, therefore still ignorant. The majority of those incarcerated has had some sort of daddy issue, unfortunately. I am actually very neutral on guns so your idiotic “moar gunz” stuff is just idiotic and showing more ignorance. This why I usually don’t engage with you. Trying to win arguments instead of having them.

 

[TorontoGold]

Culture and fatherless homes, I agree. But you mock, therefore still ignorant. The majority of those incarcerated has had some sort of daddy issue, unfortunately. I am actually very neutral on guns so your idiotic “moar gunz” stuff is just idiotic and showing more ignorance. This why I usually don’t engage with you. Trying to win arguments instead of having them.

I mock, because the underlying causes of those things are easily identifiable and yet people sit around and ponder looking up at the stars thinking "hmmmmm why???". It's literally the economic conditions. It's always been the economic conditions. Ever since Sandy Hook the conversation has been over, it literally does not matter 1 iota. Big media event showing kids getting mowed down, did not result in anything meaningful so forgive me if I don't take Drayers outrage over trans shootings seriously. You don't want to engage with Drayer's fear mongering?

Stop all trans people from owning guns, yolo fuck it, if it reduces the risk that my family and friends don't get rinsed I'm down.

 

[ulukinatme]

You guys need to seriously control your trans outrage. There's no need to be upset when trans people shoot up a bunch of innocent people, or they're mutilating healthy kids, or they're taking awards or scholarships from biological women in sports, or they're killing themselves. Just let them be, ffs!

 

[drayer54]

 

[drayer54]

I mock, because the underlying causes of those things are easily identifiable and yet people sit around and ponder looking up at the stars thinking "hmmmmm why???". It's literally the economic conditions. It's always been the economic conditions. Ever since Sandy Hook the conversation has been over, it literally does not matter 1 iota. Big media event showing kids getting mowed down, did not result in anything meaningful so forgive me if I don't take Drayers outrage over trans shootings seriously. You don't want to engage with Drayer's fear mongering?

Stop all trans people from owning guns, yolo fuck it, if it reduces the risk that my family and friends don't get rinsed I'm down.

That’s at least 6 of these by trans shooters.

 

[GATTACA!]

That’s at least 6 of these by trans shooters.

Mentally distressed people carrying out acts of violence because thee's a prevalence of easy to obtain firearms.

We could bamn trans people from existing, or.............🤔

 

[Blazers46]

I mock, because the underlying causes of those things are easily identifiable and yet people sit around and ponder looking up at the stars thinking "hmmmmm why???". It's literally the economic conditions. It's always been the economic conditions. Ever since Sandy Hook the conversation has been over, it literally does not matter 1 iota. Big media event showing kids getting mowed down, did not result in anything meaningful so forgive me if I don't take Drayers outrage over trans shootings seriously. You don't want to engage with Drayer's fear mongering?

Stop all trans people from owning guns, yolo fuck it, if it reduces the risk that my family and friends don't get rinsed I'm down.

I don’t think the underlying issues are that easy. You blame guns but that is where it stops. You want more gun laws, great. This is as much, if not more of a people/society/culture problem. This culture is full of rot. But let’s just do gun law stuff because if we admit that society is rotting we might hurt some feelings and actually have to make steps to improve society.

 

[Blazers46]

Mentally distressed people carrying out acts of violence because thee's a prevalence of easy to obtain firearms.

We could bamn trans people from existing, or.............🤔

Cop in Las Cruces NM about a few blocks from where I conducted business was just stabbed to death yesterday by some vagrant psycho. Mentally distressed people will find a way. Sure knives aren’t AR15s and I agree mentally distressed should not have access… but you are like Toronto in we should law our way out of it and can’t admit American society and culture are as much to blame… if not more. If we admit society is going the wrong way you might have to admit maybe some of these progressive ideas are as well.

 

[TorontoGold]

I don’t think the underlying issues are that easy. You blame guns but that is where it stops. You want more gun laws, great. This is as much, if not more of a people/society/culture problem. This culture is full of rot. But let’s just do gun law stuff because if we admit that society is rotting we might hurt some feelings and actually have to make steps to improve society.

They're incredibly easy. They just run counter to conversative dogma which is why it's never explored further than "strong fathers" or whatever emotional culture war bullshit is pedaled.

You want to have two parent households? Great, work on the growing income disparity so the motivation for crime isn't as high. A UBI is great way to assist here. Also, for all the very strong conversatives that want a smaller government, you can just roll into all entitlements into the UBI to eliminate all the administrative garbage for each and every program.

You want kids to stay in school and get an education instead of joining a gang? Start early, stop spending money on high school/college funding and channel it towards elementary aged kids. Give them more access to food and technology. A lot easier and cheaper to address it when they're young rather than when they've already left the school system. Conservatives should want to spend less and with recent pushes to be less in the pocket of the Military Industrial Complex you'd think this type of idea would play well.

Only after the underlying issues are at least treated can you address the guns aspect meaningfully. If the material conditions improve for the people then they won't have the incentive to commit crime.

So, yeah there's some really simple steps that could be taken to meaningfully address any "crime" related aspects of society without instantly yoinking guns. Much more cost effective to have a UBI or better elementary school support systems than it is to have schools turned into prisons or have a podunk police force with army grade guns.

I know it won't work because all messaging would center around how it's some communist garbage from Europe, but idk I just want less waste and more effective solutions.

 

[Blazers46]

They're incredibly easy. They just run counter to conversative dogma which is why it's never explored further than "strong fathers" or whatever emotional culture war bullshit is pedaled.

You want to have two parent households? Great, work on the growing income disparity so the motivation for crime isn't as high. A UBI is great way to assist here. Also, for all the very strong conversatives that want a smaller government, you can just roll into all entitlements into the UBI to eliminate all the administrative garbage for each and every program.

You want kids to stay in school and get an education instead of joining a gang? Start early, stop spending money on high school/college funding and channel it towards elementary aged kids. Give them more access to food and technology. A lot easier and cheaper to address it when they're young rather than when they've already left the school system. Conservatives should want to spend less and with recent pushes to be less in the pocket of the Military Industrial Complex you'd think this type of idea would play well.

Only after the underlying issues are at least treated can you address the guns aspect meaningfully. If the material conditions improve for the people then they won't have the incentive to commit crime.

So, yeah there's some really simple steps that could be taken to meaningfully address any "crime" related aspects of society without instantly yoinking guns. Much more cost effective to have a UBI or better elementary school support systems than it is to have schools turned into prisons or have a podunk police force with army grade guns.

I know it won't work because all messaging would center around how it's some communist garbage from Europe, but idk I just want less waste and more effective solutions.

First, crime isn’t the biggest threat to single parent homes. Culture is. Government assistance aids separation. Any UBI will further assist in the separation of families. Part of culture in American has become entitlements and victim hood. Instead of increasing subsidies and promoting single family homes let’s further subsidize and further promote two parent homes.

Without googling places like Chicago, South Bend, Elkhart, Las Cruces NM provide free breakfast and lunch to students. They have for years even in the summer time.

Phones and tablets are offered to low income families. How are you missing this?

Go to the ghettos, they get free shit all the time!!! We have the richest poor people in all the world. The purchase power of the American poor is already pretty high and higher than most all places.

No lights, no heat, no Internet, no tech, no food… that’s not governments fault. The right has churches and food pantries. Most homeless shelters are run by Christian organizations. Most food pantries are run by Christian organizations. What are your atheist friends doing besides pounding for more government?

 

[Irish#1]

First, crime isn’t the biggest threat to single parent homes. Culture is. Government assistance aids separation. Any UBI will further assist in the separation of families. Part of culture in American has become entitlements and victim hood. Instead of increasing subsidies and promoting single family homes let’s further subsidize and further promote two parent homes.

Without googling places like Chicago, South Bend, Elkhart, Las Cruces NM provide free breakfast and lunch to students. They have for years even in the summer time.

Phones and tablets are offered to low income families. How are you missing this?

Go to the ghettos, they get free shit all the time!!! We have the richest poor people in all the world. The purchase power of the American poor is already pretty high and higher than most all places.

No lights, no heat, no Internet, no tech, no food… that’s not governments fault. The right has churches and food pantries. Most homeless shelters are run by Christian organizations. Most food pantries are run by Christian organizations. What are your atheist friends doing besides pounding for more government?

I'm not sure across the country, but they have offered free lunches during the summer for over 20 years in Indy. Tablets and laptops have been a thing for the last 10 or so. This is more on how do we get families to become families with two parents?

 

[Sea Turtle]

First, crime isn’t the biggest threat to single parent homes. Culture is. Government assistance aids separation. Any UBI will further assist in the separation of families. Part of culture in American has become entitlements and victim hood. Instead of increasing subsidies and promoting single family homes let’s further subsidize and further promote two parent homes.

Without googling places like Chicago, South Bend, Elkhart, Las Cruces NM provide free breakfast and lunch to students. They have for years even in the summer time.

Phones and tablets are offered to low income families. How are you missing this?

Go to the ghettos, they get free shit all the time!!! We have the richest poor people in all the world. The purchase power of the American poor is already pretty high and higher than most all places.

No lights, no heat, no Internet, no tech, no food… that’s not governments fault. The right has churches and food pantries. Most homeless shelters are run by Christian organizations. Most food pantries are run by Christian organizations. What are your atheist friends doing besides pounding for more government?

A lot of bad culture, no doubt.

 

[Blazers46]

I'm not sure across the country, but they have offered free lunches during the summer for over 20 years in Indy. Tablets and laptops have been a thing for the last 10 or so. This is more on how do we get families to become families with two parents?

Access is not a problem in this country for sure. Strong families develop strong people. Toronto has the idea that strong government intervention is needed to develop strong people. The government doesn’t make good daddy’s.

 

[RDU Irish]

Access is not a problem in this country for sure. Strong families develop strong people. Toronto has the idea that strong government intervention is needed to develop strong people. The government doesn’t make good daddy’s.

Government knows how to make good gestapo and that is about it.

 

[Blazers46]

A lot of bad culture, no doubt.

God is written on the founding documents, currency, pledge of allegiance, etc…. Policy and general morality was founded on biblical principles. Sadly morality has become subjective with no founding.

 

[TorontoGold]

Access is not a problem in this country for sure. Strong families develop strong people. Toronto has the idea that strong government intervention is needed to develop strong people. The government doesn’t make good daddy’s.

The role of a Government in my opinion is to protect it's people and to use the tax dollars it collects effectively. Government's in the West typically grift their citizens and spend it on ridiculous shit, it's just where do you get more bang for your buck. Spend the money on actual tangible improvements to your citizens lives. That's why it was such a major win for Trump to push the idea of a border wall because any person can see the wall and go "that's where my money went". I think a revenge tour Trump win in 2024 would do a lot of long term good for the Dems because if he salts the earth and actually gives GOP'ers what they want maybe the Dems will actually have a message other than "Well, we're the lesser of two evils". Fuck it burn it all down, I can't believe you have people that call themselves Democrats that participated in the Republican convention to help Nikki Haley. They're giving you a convicted rapist who's got countless legal charges and you want to help them out? Just brainless.

I want the government to do it's fucking job, that's all I advocate for. Your citizens are getting railed on healthcare by paying much more and getting much less, you have children with cafeteria debt, modern slavery system thats humming along (prison system), and a corporate class that gets to re-write the tax code. Those are all tangible items that can be addressed.

I look forward to seeing something tangible that shows how "culture" can be addressed. Unless there is some sort of reeducation camp where people can go to learn how to culture better lol (I'm joking btw, not calling you a Nazi).

 

[Blazers46]

The role of a Government in my opinion is to protect it's people and to use the tax dollars it collects effectively. Government's in the West typically grift their citizens and spend it on ridiculous shit, it's just where do you get more bang for your buck. Spend the money on actual tangible improvements to your citizens lives. That's why it was such a major win for Trump to push the idea of a border wall because any person can see the wall and go "that's where my money went". I think a revenge tour Trump win in 2024 would do a lot of long term good for the Dems because if he salts the earth and actually gives GOP'ers what they want maybe the Dems will actually have a message other than "Well, we're the lesser of two evils". Fuck it burn it all down, I can't believe you have people that call themselves Democrats that participated in the Republican convention to help Nikki Haley. They're giving you a convicted rapist who's got countless legal charges and you want to help them out? Just brainless.

I want the government to do it's fucking job, that's all I advocate for. Your citizens are getting railed on healthcare by paying much more and getting much less, you have children with cafeteria debt, modern slavery system thats humming along (prison system), and a corporate class that gets to re-write the tax code. Those are all tangible items that can be addressed.

I look forward to seeing something tangible that shows how "culture" can be addressed. Unless there is some sort of reeducation camp where people can go to learn how to culture better lol (I'm joking btw, not calling you a Nazi).

I agree. Government sucks at their job. But government is not the reason for gun violence.

 

[TorontoGold]

I agree. Government sucks at their job. But government is not the reason for gun violence.

How do you pick which is a cultural failure instead of a government failure?

 

[drayer54]

Why do we not know about the shooter and motives yet? Seems weird…

 

[drayer54]

I agree. Government sucks at their job. But government is not the reason for gun violence.

Government opens borders.
Government chooses to not enforce laws.
Government chooses to fund and defund police.
Government sets policy.

I'll bet you that the assholes involved in the shooting are either with a record or migrants.

They are indeed, but with Drayer on board with responsible laws to address the problem think how much lower they can go!

Our President can close the border right now.
Merrick Garland can instruct his US Attorneys to prosecute and lock up.
Dems can fund their police departments.

 

[greyhammer90]

Dems can fund their police departments.

I'm totally fine with the idea that social and cultural fixes are needed in addition to more gun control, but KC officials have reported that there were over 800 officers staffed around Union Station, including armed officers on top of buildings watching for threats. Before they could do anything, 20 people had been shot and at least one of the three suspects was taken down by unarmed civilians, not police. The idea that the answer to "bad guys with guns" is "more good guys with guns" is an NRA fantasy that studies of mass shooting events have disproven.

 

[drayer54]

I'm totally fine with the idea that social and cultural fixes are needed in addition to more gun control, but KC officials have reported that there were over 800 officers staffed around Union Station, including armed officers on top of buildings watching for threats. Before they could do anything, 20 people had been shot and at least one of the three suspects was taken down by unarmed civilians, not police. The idea that the answer to "bad guys with guns" is "more good guys with guns" is an NRA fantasy that studies of mass shooting events have disproven.

Except it hasn't been disproven.

Father describes firing back after 12-year-old son shot while caught in crossfire in SW Philadelphia

Upon arrival, officers found a 12-year-old with a graze wound to the head and an adult male with multiple gunshot wounds to his back.

6abc.com

Homeowner armed with shotgun helps police in Fresno, 3 in custody

Police arrested 3 suspects on Wednesday after they received a report of someone brandishing a handgun at a person.That call came in around 10:30 a.m. at Blackst

kmph.com

'Justified shooting' leads to death of home intruder, investigators say

Officials over the preliminary investigation say the incident was a justified shooting.

www.rocketcitynow.com

 

[greyhammer90]

Except it hasn't been disproven.
View attachment 3055393

Father describes firing back after 12-year-old son shot while caught in crossfire in SW Philadelphia

Upon arrival, officers found a 12-year-old with a graze wound to the head and an adult male with multiple gunshot wounds to his back.

6abc.com

Homeowner armed with shotgun helps police in Fresno, 3 in custody

Police arrested 3 suspects on Wednesday after they received a report of someone brandishing a handgun at a person.That call came in around 10:30 a.m. at Blackst

kmph.com

'Justified shooting' leads to death of home intruder, investigators say

Officials over the preliminary investigation say the incident was a justified shooting.

www.rocketcitynow.com

Cmon man, I'm talking about statistics, not cherrypicked examples that support your worldview. Do you really want me to start exchanging all the articles covering shootings that occurred where people and children died despite the presence of armed police/civilians? The FBI did a study on mass shootings and it was determined that only about 3% of mass shootings were impeded by an armed citizen. If you're involved in a shooting its about x7 more likely that the shooter is going to just kill themselves before any armed do-gooder does anything.

If more guns meant more gun safety, the US would be the safest place on Earth from a gun violence perspective. Instead we are astronomically higher (somewhere north of 20x worse) than other "peer" wealthy nations.

 

[drayer54]

Cmon man, I'm talking about statistics, not cherrypicked examples that support your worldview. Do you really want me to start exchanging all the articles covering shootings that occurred where people and children died despite the presence of armed police/civilians? The FBI did a study on mass shootings and it was determined that only about 3% of mass shootings were impeded by an armed citizen. If you're involved in a shooting its about x7 more likely that the shooter is going to just kill themselves before any armed do-gooder does anything.

If more guns meant more gun safety, the US would be the safest place on Earth from a gun violence perspective. Instead we are astronomically higher (somewhere north of 20x worse) than other "peer" wealthy nations.

Those are all from the last week.
FBI studies also showed declining crime for a decade while gun ownership surged and rare use of semi-auto rifles in shootings where you were more likely to die from blunt force.

When left wingers are actively pushing policies to make us less safe, it's hard to claim any authority or high ground here.

Why do we not know about the suspects?
They would have been booming it by now if it supported the narrative.

 

[Jiggafini19Deux]

I suppose we have to ban Super Bowl parades now.

 

[drayer54]

I suppose we have to ban Super Bowl parades now.

Or secure the border. Deport the criminals being dumped in our country. Enforce the laws. Police the communities. Just an alternative idea.

 

[greyhammer90]

Those are all from the last week.
FBI studies also showed declining crime for a decade while gun ownership surged and rare use of semi-auto rifles in shootings where you were more likely to die from blunt force.

When left wingers are actively pushing policies to make us less safe, it's hard to claim any authority or high ground here.

Why do we not know about the suspects?
They would have been booming it by now if it supported the narrative.

Alright, a few different points here. First, I'll point out that you've now swung to a completely different argument. You've switched from a "good guy with a gun stops bad guy with gun during active crime" argument (which is not shown to be statistically true) to a "more guns lower the initial committing of crimes" argument. Totally different, still probably wrong.

I wasn't able to find the FBI study you referenced above with a Google search, but I assume that no direct causation between the two figures was put forward by the FBI. So presumably what you've done is seen that crime rates are down in a report, and seen that gun ownership is up in another report, and decided to draw your own conclusions.

The issue with correlation = causation is that anyone can make similar arguments using whatever they want:

Crime is way down since the 90s:

Reported violent crime rate in the U.S. 2023| Statista

In 2023, the violent crime rate in the United States was 363.8 cases per 100,000 of the population.

www.statista.com

Do you know what has increased since the 90s?



You are actively attempting to make us less safe by strengthening the border.