Coaching Carousel

[Lberry]

Yes, but your point is ridiculous. Comparing Freeman to the greatest coach in college football history is bad enough, but a coach that is in his late thirties to a coach that is in his seventies is completely ludicrous. You picked the two absolute extreme situations to compare to each other. It's a horrible way to make your point.

I'm not comparing coaches, I'm comparing a concept. You have a patter of missing my points and I think it might be on purpose. Having a network of 10 total coaches you've worked with, and primarily hiring from that 10

=/

Having a network of 500 coaches and hiring within that 500. Pick any coach with 3 decades of experience vs a coach picking his friends with 2 years, it's not a Saban/MF thing. MF hires in his friend group (because he doesn't know, or trust anyone else, or he can't attract anyone else), and he doesn't trust himself enough to evaluate and make an outside hire. Saban (or similar coach with 30 years') has a million friends and can choose the best among them. It's not the same thing.

 

[Armyirish47]

You missed the point I'm making. Yes, Saban has hired friends. No, that isn't a comparison to MF because Saban has 20X the friends to choose from.

Ah, you should take that up with other person who uses your account that said he doesn't hire his friends.

 

[NDohio]

I'm not comparing coaches, I'm comparing a concept. You (purposely?) miss every point I make.

Having a network of 10 total coaches you've worked with, and only hiring from that 10

=/

Having a network of 500 coaches and hiring within that 500. Pick any coach with 2 decades of experience vs a coach picking his friends with 2 years. It's not a Saban/MF thing. Everyone gets this..

But you are the one that did compare someone that DOES have 500 coaches in their network to someone that DOES NOT.

Freeman hired someone from his very small circle to be his WR coach. That set this whole conversation off. Two years ago he hired Al Golden - not in his circle. Last year he tried to hire Andy Ludwig - not in his circle. This year he will most likely hire an S&C coach - not in his circle. Freeman is building his coaching circle while Saban already has a coaching circle. That is the difference.

 

[Lberry]

But you are the one that did compare someone that DOES have 500 coaches in their network to someone that DOES NOT.

Freeman hired someone from his very small circle to be his WR coach. That set this whole conversation off. Two years ago he hired Al Golden - not in his circle. Last year he tried to hire Andy Ludwig - not in his circle. This year he will most likely hire an S&C coach - not in his circle. Freeman is building his coaching circle while Saban already has a coaching circle. That is the difference.

Yes, and MF has a habbit of "building his network" within his tiny (by comparison) friend group.

Gerad Porker - Buddy
Marty Biagi - Buddy
Gino Guidugli - Buddy
Mike Brown - Buddy
Mike Mickens - Buddy
Al Washington - Buddy
Joe Rudolph - Buddy (GA at OSU while MF was player)

Of the new hires since MF has been here, *Al Golden* stands alone as the outside the build-a-buddy model. Kind of ironic that has arguably been the best hire MF has made..

Edit - he also hired McCullough and Stuckey who were outside hires, as someone noted below.

 

[BeauBenken]

Yes, and MF has a habbit of "building his network" within his tiny (by comparison) friend group.

Gerad Porker - Buddy
Marty Biagi - Buddy
Gino Guidugli - Buddy
Mike Brown - Buddy
Mike Mickens - Buddy
Al Washington - Buddy
Joe Rudolph - Buddy (GA at OSU while MF was player)

Of the new hires since MF has been here, *Al Golden* stands alone as the outside the build-a-buddy model. Kind of ironic that has arguably been the best hire MF has made..

I'd say the Rudolph one might be a bit of a stretch but otherwise yes.

 

[mrmcgrail]

So when he tried to hire Ludwig was that his buddy? This is such a played out story line. Joe Rudolph was a top name for line coaches with oc experience and ahc experience. Mickens was on staff already and is great at his job. The defensive line is playing better with less talent then last year are you saying Washington was a bad hire?

 

[Lberry]

So when he tried to hire Ludwig was that his buddy? This is such a played out story line. Joe Rudolph was a top name for line coaches with oc experience and ahc experience. Mickens was on staff already and is great at his job. The defensive line is playing better with less talent then last year are you saying Washington was a bad hire?

All I'm saying is when there's an opening, MF rushes first to his small friend circle. Mike Brown being the most recent example, we didn't offer anyone else the WR job (per II podcast yesterday).

It's a pattern.

 

[Katzenboyer]

But you are the one that did compare someone that DOES have 500 coaches in their network to someone that DOES NOT.

Freeman hired someone from his very small circle to be his WR coach. That set this whole conversation off. Two years ago he hired Al Golden - not in his circle. Last year he tried to hire Andy Ludwig - not in his circle. This year he will most likely hire an S&C coach - not in his circle. Freeman is building his coaching circle while Saban already has a coaching circle. That is the difference.

Freeman also wanted to bring Colin Klein in as OC, who likewise is not in his circle.

 

[zelezo vlk]

Deland McCullough? Hiestand? Chansi? What were his ties there?

 

[NDohio]

Yes, and MF has a habbit of "building his network" within his tiny (by comparison) friend group.

Gerad Porker - Buddy
Marty Biagi - Buddy
Gino Guidugli - Buddy
Mike Brown - Buddy
Mike Mickens - Buddy
Al Washington - Buddy
Joe Rudolph - Buddy (GA at OSU while MF was player)

Of the new hires since MF has been here, *Al Golden* stands alone as the outside the build-a-buddy model. Kind of ironic that has arguably been the best hire MF has made..

Comparing your list of the the Freeman buddy hires to their predecessors. I only see one issue...

Gerad Porker - Buddy (Downgrade)
Marty Biagi - Buddy (Very, very slight downgrade - although he replaced a Freeman buddy that was fantastic)
Gino Guidugli - Buddy (Well respected - most likely an upgrade)
Mike Brown - Buddy (To Be Determined, but most think an upgrade)
Mike Mickens - Buddy (Was already on staff, but is phenomenal)
Al Washington - Buddy (Upgrade)
Joe Rudolph - Buddy (GA at OSU while MF was player)(Too early to tell but might be a wash)

You also conveniently left off DM, who was not a Freeman Buddy, and has been a great hire and upgrade over the previous coach.

 

[NDWarrior]

I would tend to agree that MF does appear to lean his known circle first which I get and understand but I would like to see a more funneled process where he (and his team - this takes effort of more than 1) go out and canvas top xCs and position coaches, narrow it down to top 3-4 candidates, interview them, and then make a final selection based on best ND, team, philosophy and culture fit, and a lot on what the coach communicates he's going to deliver - his plan. I know that's asking a lot where sometimes you need to act fast (like WR opening), but this approach which I think BK started to use in latter years will payoff so much better in the long term. Besides, if MF develops ND into a perennial CFP challenger, he has to be good at this stuff (and his network will eventually run out) because with his and team's success, coaches will grow and inevitably leave so you need a process and constant funnel for this important HC function and to keep your program at the top like Saban - Look how many OC candidates he had to interview for AL OC opening last year.

 

[mrmcgrail]

I guess your narrative is right because Chris O'Leary is his buddy dm I mean the Joe Rudolph thing is such a huge stretch. He brought in golden he was interviewing other ocs with no connection to them and offered it to Ludwig.

 

[Jiggafini19Deux]

Coaches hiring coaching buddies is nothing earth shattering. Especially young ones just starting out.

Marcus turns 38 next month. He's been a head coach for two seasons. He's going to have to build a coaching tree the way he knows how, they way most of them do anyway, which is to bring in dudes he knows. It's typically what a lot of guys do when they start out and continue to do throughout. Kelly was bringing GVSU friends to ND a decade after he left there.

Saban was at Toledo for one year as HC, his first HC job ever. His DC was Dean Pees. When Saban left Toledo, Pees then went to ND to coach the secondary under Holtz. When Saban got the Michigan State job, who did he hire as his DC? Dean Pees. His OC was Gary Tranquill, who was QB coach for the Browns when Saban was DC there under Belichick. From Michigan State DC, Dean Pees became HC at Kent State, Saban's alma mater. When they fired him, guess where he ended up? The New England Patriots, who were being coached by Bill Belichick, Saban's buddy from the Cleveland Browns. Dean Pees retired from football earlier this year after serving as DC for the Patriots, Ravens, Titans and Falcons over the course of his career.

That's Saban, the best there is and was more than likely. The point is he was hiring friends early on in his career just like everyone else.

It's a good ol boy group. Marcus is only getting started. I hope he's here a long time and wins a lot of games, and if that ends up being the case, we're going to continue to see his coaching tree build. Right now he has a limited number of people he knows and among those there are probably some he doesn't want to hire and or are not available anyway. It could all be his undoing, it could end up working out. We don't know yet. What we know is this is how you build a coaching tree.

 

[TorontoGold]

MF's problem isn't hiring his friends. His problem is he has about the smallest coaching circle ever because he's way too new.

If Saban hires his friends (he doesn't), he's choosing the best from about 500 contacts. MF is choosing his favorite 5 of about 5.

You missed the point I'm making. Yes, Saban has hired friends. No, that isn't a comparison to MF because Saban has 20X the friends to choose from.

You said it right there! It's right there!

 

[NDWarrior]

The only difference here might be that MF as HC of ND (vs. a not as well known FCS school), even though early in his HC career, should be able to get some traction with contacts he has no relationship with just because it's ND.

 

[Armyirish47]

You said it right there! It's right there!

Koonlberry's favorite Halloween costume is Rick James.

 

[NDohio]

I would tend to agree that MF does appear to lean his known circle first which I get and understand but I would like to see a more funneled process where he (and his team - this takes effort of more than 1) go out and canvas top xCs and position coaches, narrow it down to top 3-4 candidates, interview them, and then make a final selection based on best ND, team, philosophy and culture fit, and a lot on what the coach communicates he's going to deliver - his plan. I know that's asking a lot where sometimes you need to act fast (like WR opening), but this approach which I think BK started to use in latter years will payoff so much better in the long term. Besides, if MF develops ND into a perennial CFP challenger, he has to be good at this stuff (and his network will eventually run out) because with his and team's success, coaches will grow and inevitably leave so you need a process and constant funnel for this important HC function and to keep your program at the top like Saban - Look how many OC candidates he had to interview for AL OC opening last year.

I mean, he did exactly this last season for the OC position after having already done exactly this in the hiring of Al Golden as DC.

There were a large number of names attached to the interview process for the OC position. He narrowed it down to two coaches that he had absolutely no relationship with. Brought both of them in for on campus interviews and decided to hire Andy Ludwig. Unfortunately we know what happened there. At that point, ND was a month away from Spring Camp and he didn't have time to start the process all over again.

This entire notion of Freeman taking the easy way out and simply hiring buddies is a made-up situation for people to complain about on message boards. He has already shown that he will go outside his connections to find good coaches.

 

[NDWarrior]

I'm not complaining what I'm talking about (we'll never know what he actually does) is that for WR coach (which I know had to be a quick decision), did he take a scan of a large chunk of the top and successful WR coaches out there and then get down to 2-3 so we are sure to be hiring the best and best fit? It seems here like he went to the obvious and coaching network choices which can be ok, but I would rather see a more thorough process to get the best out there, but then again, I'm not the HC of ND. I would call him lazy but the process seems to be a more limited, easier one than it could/should be. That's my 2 cents anyway.

 

[dublinirish]

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[JamIrish]

If Klein keeps turning down these OC offers from other schools, maybe he's playing the long game and waiting for Klieman to be poached so he can be 1st in line to be the head guy at his alma mater?

 

[Pete]

Colorado coach Darian Hagan leaving the Prime life to coach RBs at San Diego St

 

[FDNYIrish1]

Haven’t watched a minute of KState football but Collin Klein must be doing something right out there.

 

[StPaul_Irish]

Haven’t watched a minute of KState football but Collin Klein must be doing something right out there.

His offense is pretty fun, effective. I'm sure someone will drum up numbers making him look lousy but... I would take him and Howard in a heartbeat. Just my opinion. In true IE fashion, I'll make this about Parker.

Lots of people banging down Kleins door. Don't think our guy is getting that same love. Says something about Klein.

 

[Huntr]

 

[rtrn2glory]

Of course he did

 

[PigtownIrish]

Good thing our QB room did not like him!

 

[NDFan8349]

Good thing our QB room did not like him!

We are good. We have Porker....

 

[ThePiombino]

Is A&M about to become Bizarroworld ND?

Sent from my Pixel 8 Pro using Tapatalk

 

[Irish#1]

Colorado coach Darian Hagan leaving the Prime life to coach RBs at San Diego St

Sander's losing everyone, players, coaches and girlfriend. What a kick in the nuts.

 

[StPaul_Irish]

Didn't need or want him. "WAR DADDY, WAR DADDY WAR DADDY"