'19 IN LB Jack Kiser (Notre Dame Man)

[NDdomer2]

Grades are close to worthless. You get a +1 if you "do your job" on a play and a "0" if you don't. No matter if cause havoc or not, beat your man or not, etc. Xavier Watts would have got a total of "3" on his two INTs and fumble touchdown all the same as Nana setting the edge on 3 running plays and not making a tackle.

No NFL team drafts using grades as a leading signal. Kiser's really good at being where he's supposed to be and making no impact on the play.

Grades are only useful to ID players who are always in the wrong spot or getting beat (think Sneed). So when people are seeing him fly around and cause pressure and wonder why he's not playing, grading might actually be relevant, showing that he's in wrong spot too often.

I'm struggling to understand why this post gets neg'd

 

[Crazy Balki]

I'm struggling to understand why this post gets neg'd

So am I.

I find it very difficult to grade a player the same way when he's averaging about 18 snaps a game, compared to guys like Bertrand and Marist, who are averaging triple, if not nearly QUADRUPLE the snaps.

No knock on Kiser, but it's patently obvious he's the third most impactful of the 3 main LBs.

 

[NDRock]

I'm struggling to understand why this post gets neg'd

I reckoon it’s personal.

 

[stpeteirish]

He doesn’t play as much as the other linebackers because he’s the odd man out when they go to nickel. It’s really that simple.

They obviously think Bertrand is better so he stays in when they go to nickel (or dime) which has been around 80% of the time.
I’m not sure they’re right but looking at our next three opponents we should see more 3 lb looks. They all suck at passing.

 

[stlnd01]

So am I.

I find it very difficult to grade a player the same way when he's averaging about 18 snaps a game, compared to guys like Bertrand and Marist, who are averaging triple, if not nearly QUADRUPLE the snaps.

No knock on Kiser, but it's patently obvious he's the third most impactful of the 3 main LBs.

On the flip side - and I realize that tackles aren't the end-all/be-all of stats - Kiser is third on the team in tackles despite playing far fewer snaps than most of the others at the top of the list. He's clearly doing something right when he is on the field.

 

[PutuporShutup]

They obviously think Bertrand is better so he stays in when they go to nickel (or dime) which has been around 80% of the time.
I’m not sure they’re right but looking at our next three opponents we should see more 3 lb looks. They all suck at passing.

We don't "go" to nickel. We occasionally go out of nickel. We're in it 90% of the time other than some short yardage plays where Kiser always comes in then.

It's a big part of why our pass D is so good. We can stop/slow down everyone's run (except one play at ohio state and a few at louisville) with only 6 in the box. We almost always have 5 or more dbs in pass coverage.

Most people think of LBs dropping in coverage in nickel, we tend to blitz both our lbs a good bit in nickel. It's why when teams complete passes to us they're typically over the short middle of the field because we don't have lbs taking up any throwing angles, and we tend to give middle release to the slot or TE (still confuses me, but we did far less of it vs USC).

 

[Irish#1]

Yes, but the question remains- if the PFF grade is accurate, why is he the odd man out? Why are the coaches choosing Liufau/Bertrand over Kiser so frequently? You'd think a smart player like Kiser could play at multiple LB spots, and it's not like Liufau is all that special

Since his snaps were limited against the two fastest teams we played, I would guess it's because of his speed.

 

[IRISHDODGER]

Listening to Mike Renner (an ND alum who is a draft analyst) talk about NFL draft possibilities among the 3 LB, he loves them as CFB LB but doesn’t see any of them playing in the NFL. Could see Liafau being a late pick or UDFA. Best case scenario for the 3 is latching on as a ST player.

 

[stlnd01]

Listening to Mike Renner (an ND alum who is a draft analyst) talk about NFL draft possibilities among the 3 LB, he loves them as CFB LB but doesn’t see any of them playing in the NFL. Could see Liafau being a late pick or UDFA. Best case scenario for the 3 is latching on as a ST player.

I am not a professional draft analyst but this would also be my assessment. Curious their plans for next season.

 

[IrishLion]

Bertrand hardly comes off the field. Kiser's position comes off the field often since we're in nickel a lot. What I don't quite get is why Kiser doesn't get more of the snaps currently taken by Marist.

Marist is longer and more athletic and better in space. Traits important in coverage, which is why you want a guy like Marist on the field. I’m surprised Bertrand doesn’t come off the field more in nickel in favor of Kiser. 🤷🏻‍♂️

I'd add that despite Marist obviously being a more-capable game wrecker, there are times late in games where he is clearly the guy with edge responsibility on 2nd/3rd-and-medium situations if he's not rushing the passer. Early in the game, he sets the edge and generally prevents the opposition from hitting the sideline. Late in games, you can see that he's no longer as effective.

Noticed it several times against OSU, and a couple against USC.

Perhaps Kiser/Sneed should take some of his early-game reps to keep him fresher for late in the game when he needs to track to the sideline (again, if he's not rushing the passer). Kiser can do it if it's a team that has pass tendency on 2nd/3rd-and-medium and you want him floating in a zone, and Sneed can do it if you're worried about the run, or simply having an extra pass rusher to walk up to the line.

HOWEVER. This is all moot, because Al Golden has earned the benefit of the doubt on personnel and game planning (add shoutouts to him for mostly avoiding terribly-telegraphed DB blitzes against USC... he knew the more effective option against Williams was to rely on the DL holding rush lanes with the occasional LB blitz to provide an extra body, while keeping all of the DB's in passing lanes all game. Good shit.)

 

[Old Man Mike]

Really poor defensive "analyst" here (so I put this out there to get educated), but don't we generally think that when a team is in nickel, the two remaining linebackers tend to have two somewhat different roles --- one of which emphasizes a lot of field area coverage (since we're worried about passing mainly), and yet we still need a number one thumper in case of an interior run "surprise"? ... and whereas Kiser is pretty good at both, he's perhaps number two at both? ... also, I got the (maybe wrong) impression, that Bertrand was considered by his teammates the lead killerdog LB and his "presence" was important?

Adding in a defense of Jack Kiser, if my DC designed defenses where I had a defined job and did it correctly in terms of my "fits" in the scheme, and the offense (not being suicidal or stupid) didn't often choose to run right into that correct fit, am I not doing my job just fine and affecting the game? A LOT of DLinemen do the exact same thing without many glory moments.

Lastly, I kind of get the "very good in college, not so much NFL" view of our guys, but would caution the negativism with what is often an ND characteristic (actually two): scheme-solid intelligence/film-learning and team-first character/effort. Those are valued by many NFL coaching staffs.

 

[IRISHDODGER]

I am not a professional draft analyst but this would also be my assessment. Curious their plans for next season.

I suspect they’re all ready to move on from college and continue their lives. They’re all accomplished student-athletes w/ a great degree in hand so the sky is the limit for all three. i wish them nothing but success & thank them for all their hard work on the gridiron for ND

 

[DillonHall]

I suspect they’re all ready to move on from college and continue their lives. They’re all accomplished student-athletes w/ a great degree in hand so the sky is the limit for all three. i wish them nothing but success & thank them for all their hard work on the gridiron for ND

Hope you're right. There will be some growing pains at LB next year, but we can do better at the position

 

[Lberry]

Hope you're right. There will be some growing pains at LB next year, but we can do better at the position

Got murdered for saying this a month ago lol. Just funny to see the maturation of the topics. I'd take Marist back. And I suspect we see some spell JD more 3rd quarter of season to get some on the job training for Bowen.

 

[DillonHall]

I wouldn't be that upset if Marist and/or Bertrand came back, but I think our younger players are a lot more talented (and smarter than Marist hopefully)

I was pretty much done with Marist after that backbreaking facemask penalty against Louisville- that may have cost us the season. Then in the USC game, instead of telling the freshman Traore to line up for the last play of the half, he's in the backfield celebrating like a fool.

 

[stlnd01]

I suspect they’re all ready to move on from college and continue their lives. They’re all accomplished student-athletes w/ a great degree in hand so the sky is the limit for all three. i wish them nothing but success & thank them for all their hard work on the gridiron for ND

You’re probably right. I’m not sure how much more draft upside any of them have with another year in college. Maybe they’d shoot their shot with the NFL and move on with their lives. We’ve seen that before plenty of times.

Or maybe they know they won’t do much in the NFL and love college football enough for one more ride. Making decent NIL money could change the equation for some of these sort of guys.

 

[Lberry]

Spanning multiple DC's by now, ND seems to love 3-year starters at LB. I'm just ready for one of those 3 year guys to be of the caliber of Daryk Bowen, Jaiden Ausberry, or even Sneed.

I can live with some learning on the job and mistakes when the havoc goes way up with it.

 

[JamIrish]

Aside from Marist and JD playing basically every defensive snap, they are also in on every special team snap. Between KO return/coverage and Punt return/coverage they both probably play an additional 15-20 snaps a game on top of the defensive snaps. The only time they're not on the field is offense or ND's field goal/pat attempts.

 

[T-Boone]

Any chance Nolan Ziegler gets action at LB this season?

 

[DillonHall]

Any chance Nolan Ziegler gets action at LB this season?

Hopefully he’ll get some reps since he already red-shirted last year. Sounds like he got his feet wet on special teams last week.

 

[T-Boone]

Hopefully he’ll get some reps since he already red-shirted last year. Sounds like he got his feet wet on special teams last week.

Yes that is what I heard. Good development.

 

[BobbyMac]

He shoulda GT'd to Iowa and got his Ph.D. He's just not a scheme fit but he stayed and accepted his role.

But when he's in, his stats per snap are top of the chart.

At this point I just want him to go to the NFL where he'll get paid while all the haters say but but but he couldn't get on the field at ND.

 

[PutuporShutup]

I think it’s a simple as Kiser plays a position we don’t use much and then he’s also backup for Marist and jd so if either miss time like jd at nc state kiser plays.

We’re trying to find a lb to play rover that can defend pass and run good enough to cover slot or te, don’t have that yet so it’s always a db

 

[Sherm Sticky]

He shoulda GT'd to Iowa and got his Ph.D. He's just not a scheme fit but he stayed and accepted his role.

But when he's in, his stats per snap are top of the chart.

At this point I just want him to go to the NFL where he'll get paid while all the haters say but but but he couldn't get on the field at ND.

I really like Kiser. He is faster than Bertrand and slightly bigger. But, he doesn’t have the experience at Mike like JD. Which is why I would like to see Kiser come back in 2024 as the starting MIke LB. He is smart enough to call the plays and once JD is gone he will be able to get the practice reps.

 

[T-Boone]

Could he slim down and move to safety?

 

[irishff1014]

 

[FWIrish4]

Kid is basically gonna be a doctor spending 6 years at ND with his academic chops

 

[NDPhilly]

Think he was a modest disappointment this year, but still a good player. Doesnt seem like hes in most mock drafts, but that could have changed if he crushed the combine. Not many linebackers can move like this:

 

[NDRock]

My wife will be happy, he's her favorite player (let the shit talking begin).

 

[irishnd31]

Kid is basically gonna be a doctor spending 6 years at ND with his academic chops