State of the Recruiting Class - 2024

[NDMatt91]

1) ND is obviously NOT interested in winning an NC at all costs. They are focused on their mission and their brand, which they often conflate and confuse. This is not a bad thing, but it is different than OSU and Bama.

2) Unless ND starts paying, ND is going to struggle against schools that are bigger, party more, and have almost no standards for athletes. These are kids with NFL aspirations, so college football is their vocational school. Why would they chose a school where academics is going to be a real challenge? Answer: a few top kids are really smart, a few top kids are competitive in everything, a few top kids value education for its own sake, a few kids are wise enough to hedge their bets, and a few top kids are either ND fans or grew up close-by--we do pretty well with all of these types of kids.

But the reality is a certain number of the top 50 kids are just NEVER going to consider ND as is. If UGA has a real shot at 40 of the top 50 kids a year, they may land 5 in a good year. If ND only has a legit shot with, say, 5-10 of those kids, they are going to be lucky to land 1. This is just reality.

I still can't understand why a group of alumni/boosters haven't started a collective that is competitive

I’m not that impressed with the whole blue chip rate thing. Steve Angeli, as the 43rd ranked QB, is counted the same as a 5* player. We’re not getting any more elite kids under Freeman. We’re trading in some high ranked 3* kids for low ranked 4*s. It’s better but unlikely it will be enough to get us closer to a NC.

Hopefully some of these kids become difference makers regardless of what they’re ranked.

From 2013-2017 on the 247 composite there were 1,739 blue-chip recruits. 626 of them have been drafted or have played in at least 1 NFL game. That's a 36.0% hit rate.

2013 (344)-121 (35.2%)
2014 (344)-122 (35.5%)
2015 (351)-127 (36.2%)
2016 (347)-125 (36.0%)
2017 (353)-131 (37.1%)

I looked at the top 500 players and each class and compiled the total number of hits and the hit rate for each range of players (per 50 spots):

1-50: 177 (70.8%)
51-100: 110 (44.0%)
101-150: 85 (34.0%)
151-200: 77 (30.8%)
201-250: 61 (24.4%)
251-300: 63 (25.2%)
301-350: 52 (20.8%)
351-400: 50 (20.0%)
401-450: 52 (20.8%)
451-500: 50 (20.0%)

 

[NDRock]

I still can't understand why a group of alumni/boosters haven't started a collective that is competitive


From 2013-2017 on the 247 composite there were 1,739 blue-chip recruits. 626 of them have been drafted or have played in at least 1 NFL game. That's a 36.0% hit rate.

2013 (344)-121 (35.2%)
2014 (344)-122 (35.5%)
2015 (351)-127 (36.2%)
2016 (347)-125 (36.0%)
2017 (353)-131 (37.1%)

I looked at the top 500 players and each class and compiled the total number of hits and the hit rate for each range of players (per 50 spots):

1-50: 177 (70.8%)
51-100: 110 (44.0%)
101-150: 85 (34.0%)
151-200: 77 (30.8%)
201-250: 61 (24.4%)
251-300: 63 (25.2%)
301-350: 52 (20.8%)
351-400: 50 (20.0%)
401-450: 52 (20.8%)
451-500: 50 (20.0%)

This is reason people get upset when we miss out on the top rated guys. They hit at a higher level and that's what you need to compete. 2018 Clemson and 2019 LSU were brought up earlier. If you look at those teams you see elite talent all over the field. I believe Clemson's defense had 9 of the 11 starters drafted (5 in the 1st round). While LSU's team had 14 players drafted that year (10 in the first 3 rounds).

If we can compete by getting a team full of elite guys by identifying lower ranked talent (Alt, JOK) then great. It's just way harder to do.

 

[NDRock]

1) ND is obviously NOT interested in winning an NC at all costs. They are focused on their mission and their brand, which they often conflate and confuse. This is not a bad thing, but it is different than OSU and Bama.

2) Unless ND starts paying, ND is going to struggle against schools that are bigger, party more, and have almost no standards for athletes. These are kids with NFL aspirations, so college football is their vocational school. Why would they chose a school where academics is going to be a real challenge? Answer: a few top kids are really smart, a few top kids are competitive in everything, a few top kids value education for its own sake, a few kids are wise enough to hedge their bets, and a few top kids are either ND fans or grew up close-by--we do pretty well with all of these types of kids.

But the reality is a certain number of the top 50 kids are just NEVER going to consider ND as is. If UGA has a real shot at 40 of the top 50 kids a year, they may land 5 in a good year. If ND only has a legit shot with, say, 5-10 of those kids, they are going to be lucky to land 1. This is just reality.

These top kids want to go to a place where they can best be developed for the NFL. Where ND consistently drops the ball isn't in making kids go to class, or having standards for their athletes. It's in not providing the best environment to be prepared for the NFL. We just watched our OC search go to shit because of money, so we end up with some inexperienced guy from WV. You don't think that matters to recruits?

Have the best coaches, the best S&C program, the best facilities AND the best education. Why not try to be the best in all aspects? That's where ND fails and then fans blame NIL or the fact they have to go to class as to why the elite kids don't want to come. Of course, it's not my money so it's easy to say.

 

[Domina Nostra]

These top kids want to go to a place where they can best be developed for the NFL. Where ND consistently drops the ball isn't in making kids go to class, or having standards for their athletes. It's in not providing the best environment to be prepared for the NFL. We just watched our OC search go to shit because of money, so we end up with some inexperienced guy from WV. You don't think that matters to recruits?

Have the best coaches, the best S&C program, the best facilities AND the best education. Why not try to be the best in all aspects? That's where ND fails and then fans blame NIL or the fact they have to go to class as to why the elite kids don't want to come. Of course, it's not my money so it's easy to say.

You really can’t be the best in all aspects. That’s just motivation speak.

The guy who wants to be cutting edge in computer science can’t also be a virtuoso pianist, grand chess master, and D1 athlete. There are only so many hours in the day.

The best Football players want to focus on football. Insofar as academics keep them from reaching their football potential, they are often seen as a hinderance. It’s not unreasonable, even if it is short-sighted for most.

The kids who choose ND are not choosing to be the best academically. With very few exceptions, no one is convinced these kids have time to pursue academics the way most other kids at ND are doing. They aren’t elite students, they are elite athletes.

ND kids are choosing a safe, moral, family-focused, faith-centered, excellent football program that values the athlete’s education over pure profit maximization. While they come out with a legit degree from an excellent education, ND football players are not generally going for academic greatness.

Hiring mediocre coaches certainly hurts recruiting, but so does making kids study!

 

[stlnd01]

These top kids want to go to a place where they can best be developed for the NFL. Where ND consistently drops the ball isn't in making kids go to class, or having standards for their athletes. It's in not providing the best environment to be prepared for the NFL. We just watched our OC search go to shit because of money, so we end up with some inexperienced guy from WV. You don't think that matters to recruits?

There were only five schools with more alums in the NFL last year than Notre Dame.
Four of them have had consistently higher recruiting rankings (the raw material, if you will) than we do. (The fifth is Michigan. Booooo.)

I think we do just fine in the “preparing players for the NFL” department, personally. Five-stars don’t come here because, often, the road is easier somewhere else.

 

[NDohio]

These top kids want to go to a place where they can best be developed for the NFL. Where ND consistently drops the ball isn't in making kids go to class, or having standards for their athletes. It's in not providing the best environment to be prepared for the NFL. We just watched our OC search go to shit because of money, so we end up with some inexperienced guy from WV. You don't think that matters to recruits?

Have the best coaches, the best S&C program, the best facilities AND the best education. Why not try to be the best in all aspects? That's where ND fails and then fans blame NIL or the fact they have to go to class as to why the elite kids don't want to come. Of course, it's not my money so it's easy to say.

Our offensive recruiting has ben really strong since that inexperienced guy from WV became the OC...

 

[Green Mountains]

The average acceptance rate for the SEC was 57.7% in 2023 (Vandy was 7%, Florida 23%). Notre Dame's acceptance rate is 12.9% in 2022. It's hard get into and it's hard. And every player who works there way through it says, "it takes time to adjust."

ND is not for everyone. The academic profile (and actual school requirements) disqualifies huge proportion of kids (and these are 17/18 year olds, they are kids). And another group of kids disqualifies themselves as they will need to go to class and perform academically like every other student. It ends up being the rare kid who says, "I want the academic rigor, I want the athletic rigor, and I want to do it in an environment that will take some adjustment."

Some have prospered (Hamilton, Tuitt, JOK, Avery Davis, Isaiah Foskey, many TE's and O Linemen); and some have wilted (Phil, Max Redfield, Lorenzo Styles, Prince Kollie) and others have worked hard to keep on the eligible (Kevin Austin, Jordan Botelho, Alize Mack).

ND is selling to the kid who is willing to try to something which is fundamentally harder at ND than at most other schools. Pre NIL - ND could sell the 40 year decision. Post NIL - that's a tougher sell. I still think ND can get those kids, it's just that many have already been funneled out of the available talent pool.

 

[NDRock]

You really can’t be the best in all aspects. That’s just motivation speak.

The guy who wants to be cutting edge in computer science can’t also be a virtuoso pianist, grand chess master, and D1 athlete. There are only so many hours in the day.

The best Football players want to focus on football. Insofar as academics keep them from reaching their football potential, they are often seen as a hinderance. It’s not unreasonable, even if it is short-sighted for most.

The kids who choose ND are not choosing to be the best academically. With very few exceptions, no one is convinced these kids have time to pursue academics the way most other kids at ND are doing. They aren’t elite students, they are elite athletes.

ND kids are choosing a safe, moral, family-focused, faith-centered, excellent football program that values the athlete’s education over pure profit maximization. While they come out with a legit degree from an excellent education, ND football players are not generally going for academic greatness.

Hiring mediocre coaches certainly hurts recruiting, but so does making kids study!

It's about providing the best atmosphere for development. These kids are already practicing, why not have them coached by the best coaches, they are already working out, why not strive to have the best S&C program, they are already on a nutrition program, why not have the best one. Same for facilities, etc... They need to win on the margins to make up for the self-induced limitations they place on themselves.

When you have a national search of an OC/OL and your HC identifies who he wants and it gets nixed over money, then you're not really interested in competing for NCs. That's fine. It's ND's choice and why I really don't get fired up when they lose.

 

[Terry Jillery]

Our offensive recruiting has ben really strong since that inexperienced guy from WV became the OC...

He will be a known name after this season simply bc of the talent on that side of the ball. He walked into one hell of a good situation.

 

[IrishLax]

Gerry Porker is very easy to neg recruit. Absolute gift to our rivals.

 

[Old Man Mike]

A bit saddening to keep reading the same arguments year after year. Things change though.

When Coach Kelly came, he saw pretty quickly that just out-organizing the competition wasn't going to be enough (though he did a fantastic job of turning LOTS of things around in that category.) AND his hope that his previously nearly unstoppable four receivers out/ one back in "surprise opened offense rush mode" would score 40 points per game (he used to say that "we should score seven times per game"--- originaly he naively was worried about scoring too fast for our defense's good once he got a QB) didn't pan out (I believe that our increased competition opponents gauntlet required a Pike or Collares (or better) quality QB every year and he would have been right, but we never got those QBs/nor WRs for that matter.)

So he shifted to another reasonable idea: Wisconsin-plus. We would out-recruit everyone on the OLine and TE (which we had proved we could do) and add the better-than-most QBs and that plus solid defense would get us there occasionally, if we could out-Wisconsin Wisconsin at RBs consistently. For a moment, this also looked like it could work. Still, the game-breaking QB and no real gamebreakers at WR for the occasional long strike kept us close also-rans.

In comes NIL, wild wild west transferring, and out goes Coach --- worn down and nearing the energy-lite final decade of his career, and having had it with the tough recruiting problems. We ourselves here at IE also saw the NIL/Transfer sea change as generally bad for ND (though probably good for places like LSU.) There was a lot of negative comment about all of this here (and in a lot of other venues.) Great assistant coaches like Hiestand and Rees (for a variety of reasons) move on also --- some of whom demonstrate that coaching probably was NOT part of our problem.

So now Coach Freeman is lumbered with the new world. Initial recruiting seems high energy and upbeat --- but we see the dreaded impacts of the "deep south+" with its deep pockets threatening always to erode our classes. So what can we do? I believe that it is a narrow path, but maybe just possible. We can still apparently stock the Lines with everybody except topline NFL defensive tackles. We still can stock the offense with Wisconsin+. AND, I believe that since we're so close, we can use the ONE new element where we CAN outcompete the bad guys to get us to the promised land --- grad transfers.

Sam I Am is Proof of Principle. We need Sam I Am or some close rendition of him each year, or less greedily every other year, and a few key gemstones in other areas. Remember that Michigan got AA-quality O and Dlineman transfers in successive years, and several THIS year.

I'd go CRAZY all-in on grad transfer scouring countrywide and as much outreach recruiting as allowable. Sam I Am this year will be a partial indication of whether our already proven areas of recruiting strengths plus ... what? ... 5, 6, 7 grad transfers per year can create Top-Six power teams regularly and just now and then a true shot.

Will we put a whole hog effort into the personnel and cash needed for this sort of "alternate recruiting" system? If we don't make that exact commitment, I don't see our path.

 

[Rizzophil]

Gerry Porker is very easy to neg recruit. Absolute gift to our rivals.

what?

 

[IHateMarkMay]

what?

I assume he meant Gerad Parker.

 

[Pops Freshenmeyer]

The thing about grad transfers is that the quantity and quality of the available talent is going to drop off. The extra Covid year has created a relative glut and it's almost done. If not for the Covid year, Sam Hartman would be out of eligibility.

So I don't think anybody can really lean into that as a significant program strategy going forward. I suppose there will always be guys like Antonio Carter but the competition for them will become increasingly fierce and the likelihood that the available talent fits your needs will also drop.

 

[stlnd01]

The thing about grad transfers is that the quantity and quality of the available talent is going to drop off. The extra Covid year has created a relative glut and it's almost done. If not for the Covid year, Sam Hartman would be out of eligibility.

So I don't think anybody can really lean into that as a significant program strategy going forward. I suppose there will always be guys like Antonio Carter but the competition for them will become increasingly fierce and the likelihood that the available talent fits your needs will also drop.

NIL may prop up the grad transfer market some, with guys - like Hartman - who are looking at a later-round pick or UDFA choosing to get paid to spend one more year developing in college instead.
But yeah, agreed, I don’t really think we can rely on grad transfers to provide us more than maybe one or two contributors a year, going forward. We really need to develop our own.

 

[MacIrish75]

what?

Do yourself a favor and peruse the Gerad Parker thread. One of the gems of this offseason.

 

[Old Man Mike]

In a year the COVID oddity will be a thing of the past AND the normal pipeline will be FULL again, so that will not be a factor --- especially for the recruiters who have real positive stories to sell. Some schools, such as Michigan, are turning into a major transfer-looking recruiter. They have nine this season, and, I believe, 7 of those are seniors or grad students in terms of time spent on campuses. MANY schools are gearing up. Of course you continue to emphasize "normal" recruitment for 90% of your "85." But finding 7, 8, 9, good additions from the portal is something ND can compete for. We are only two or three top quality players each year from being greatly feared. Why not roll the dice like we mean it and go get them?

 

[WilliamWallace]

In a year the COVID oddity will be a thing of the past AND the normal pipeline will be FULL again, so that will not be a factor --- especially for the recruiters who have real positive stories to sell. Some schools, such as Michigan, are turning into a major transfer-looking recruiter. They have nine this season, and, I believe, 7 of those are seniors or grad students in terms of time spent on campuses. MANY schools are gearing up. Of course you continue to emphasize "normal" recruitment for 90% of your "85." But finding 7, 8, 9, good additions from the portal is something ND can compete for. We are only two or three top quality players each year from being greatly feared. Why not roll the dice like we mean it and go get them?

Completely agree, with this, and your post above. We will have to take advantage of the portal to mask any NIL deficiencies, and “upfront money”, it’s the reality today. There’s a ton of negativity here and everywhere else that MF is slacking. Another reality, we don’t know what’s going on. For the sake of getting through the off-season let’s just take a back seat on a lot of these concerns and arguments, and see how it plays out. There’s absolutely nothing we can do about it, shy of protesting the school. MF will get it together, or he will be gone. This is year two, a lot has changed, and a lot will change by year three.

 

[NDWarrior]

In a year the COVID oddity will be a thing of the past AND the normal pipeline will be FULL again, so that will not be a factor --- especially for the recruiters who have real positive stories to sell. Some schools, such as Michigan, are turning into a major transfer-looking recruiter. They have nine this season, and, I believe, 7 of those are seniors or grad students in terms of time spent on campuses. MANY schools are gearing up. Of course you continue to emphasize "normal" recruitment for 90% of your "85." But finding 7, 8, 9, good additions from the portal is something ND can compete for. We are only two or three top quality players each year from being greatly feared. Why not roll the dice like we mean it and go get them?

The only challenge from what I can see is that for the Dec-Jan TP open window - when things are at a fever pitch and when there's a lot talent available, things move very quickly... I just wonder how much of a chance ND coaches have (unless they reach out and get players queued up in advance) in this period? Transfers including Grad Transfers move quickly to secure their place and I know there's a lot of undergrad admission / enrollment friction at ND that players don't want to deal with. Wishful thinking, but I've been thinking if maybe there's a way ND can provide provisional admission for undergrads - only for a semester - where a player will either have to graduate soon from current school or get up to snuff on requirements by the end of the semester, but not sure that can happen or would help, but something like this that would enable coaches to move fast. Securing a few of the handful of Grad Transfers is great, but being able to secure at least 2-3 hot undergrad transfers would be mucho beneficial!

 

[Crazy Balki]

The only challenge from what I can see is that for the Dec-Jan TP open window - when things are at a fever pitch and when there's a lot talent available, things move very quickly... I just wonder how much of a chance ND coaches have (unless they reach out and get players queued up in advance) in this period? Transfers including Grad Transfers move quickly to secure their place and I know there's a lot of undergrad admission / enrollment friction at ND that players don't want to deal with. Wishful thinking, but I've been thinking if maybe there's a way ND can provide provisional admission for undergrads - only for a semester - where a player will either have to graduate soon from current school or get up to snuff on requirements by the end of the semester, but not sure that can happen or would help, but something like this that would enable coaches to move fast. Securing a few of the handful of Grad Transfers is great, but being able to secure at least 2-3 hot undergrad transfers would be mucho beneficial!

I highly doubt kids who are a few semesters in have enough time to get all the admission requirements done in just a semester.

I'd say ND needs to seriously adjust their admission standards for athletes. I mean, they should've BEEN done this, but, better late than never I guess.

 

[NDFAN2008]

Benedict UMeh to Stanford how do they land a DE higher ranked than anyone we have?

 

[allenm5333]

Benedict UMeh to Stanford how do they land a DE higher ranked than anyone we have?

Well he ain’t gonna stay a DE and is stiff

 

[NDWarrior]

I know this doesn't really go here, but I thought ND was the school that grabbed all the smart euro and Canadian players! Not anymore... NICK SABAN’S EUROPEAN VACATION – WAS IT A RECRUITING TRIP? TIDE JUST LANDED GERMAN LB COMMIT AFTER SIGNING FINLAND OL

 

[NDWarrior]

Who dis? Crystal Ball forecast: Talented safety to Notre Dame Malcolm Ziglar?

 

[NDMatt91]

Who dis? Crystal Ball forecast: Talented safety to Notre Dame Malcolm Ziglar?

Do you mean Davis Andrews?

 

[Crazy Balki]

Well he ain’t gonna stay a DE and is stiff

Agreed.

He is basically a guy who needs to add weight and play DT.

ND basically got 3 of those guys last year and potentially one more this year in Young. And all of them are more versatile than Umeh.

 

[stpeteirish]

Who dis? Crystal Ball forecast: Talented safety to Notre Dame Malcolm Ziglar?

Nah its the Utah kid who's going on a Mormon mission.

 

[Luckylucci]

Loy and Sinclair with their most underrated commit.

Loy and Sinclair: Most Underrated Notre Dame Commit

Irish Illustrated’s Kevin Sinclair and 247Sports’ Tom Loy decided to team up to talk about some Notre Dame recruiting topics and big picture items. We will look at the current class, the coaching staff, top targets, and more. Today, let’s look at the Most Underrated Commit in Notre Dame’s 2024...

247sports.com

 

[Luckylucci]

Interesting snippet in ISD’s Friday Intel article.

ISD Intel | Behind The Scenes of Notre Dame Recruiting

Guerby Lambert and Kyngstonn Viliamu-Asa have become the focus of Irish recruiting this month. We have the latest on both and much more, including some 2025 targets worth following.

irishsportsdaily.com

Kelly brought the Irish to the Playoffs twice and the National Championship Game once and the thinking is scrapping Kelly’s game plan and trying something completely new would be foolhardy.

The current staff at Notre Dame believes it has the ability to add just a couple more pieces to the mix - guys like Viliamu-Asa and Lambert included - to get the Irish over the top.

But it’s worth emphasizing, the focus isn’t solely on adding blue-chip prospects according to ranking services.

Bringing in the right kids, “Notre Dame kids” isn’t just adequate or acceptable, but vital. The Irish feel they need players who fit the locker room to bring the right energy and shape the culture within the program.

 

[ColinKSU]

Interesting snippet in ISD’s Friday Intel article.

ISD Intel | Behind The Scenes of Notre Dame Recruiting

Guerby Lambert and Kyngstonn Viliamu-Asa have become the focus of Irish recruiting this month. We have the latest on both and much more, including some 2025 targets worth following.

irishsportsdaily.com