Another Shooting

MacIrish75

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I find it interesting that the same crowd that wants to promote access and investment in mental health as a means of answering the issue of mass shootings are the same folks who decry when schools actually attempt to address mental health as promoting SEL/CRT and trying to propagate some some “woke”agenda.

 

DomerInHappyValley

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In NM I didn’t even need ID to register or vote. The lady said “we will take your word for it” and sounded like she was wanting to tell me without telling me what she thinks of voter ID.
In PA if you change polling locations you have to show ID the 1st time you vote at a new location then you don't have to.
At least that's what I had to do in my county.
 

Blazers46

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I find it interesting that the same crowd that wants to promote access and investment in mental health as a means of answering the issue of mass shootings are the same folks who decry when schools actually attempt to address mental health as promoting SEL/CRT and trying to propagate some some “woke”agenda.


Schools are not mental health institutions. I come from the mental health field and I would be very wary of where my kids learn or be involved in any government funded mental health training. The mental health field in general is woke and every school of mental health is drinking the kool-aid.

If I promote anything it’s healthy families and healthy family values to combat the need for mental health services to begin with. Be proactive, not reactive.
 

MacIrish75

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Schools are not mental health institutions. I come from the mental health field and I would be very wary of where my kids learn or be involved in any government funded mental health training. The mental health field in general is woke and every school of mental health is drinking the kool-aid.

If I promote anything it’s healthy families and healthy family values to combat the need for mental health services to begin with. Be proactive, not reactive.
And I come from the education field and I can tell you that parents are denying services with reputable partners who are licensed mental health providers because they think that their child talking to a trained counselor about their issues means they’re being indoctrinated.

Just for kicks, can you explain to me how to initiate a “healthy family values” conversation with a student who has one parent in jail for production of meth and has been molested by the other? Or how about the kid whose dad has been incarcerated multiple times for assaulting him after getting sauced? How do I proactively address these students and their peers who experience similar issues?

Bro, do you even work in the real world?
 

MacIrish75

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I think some of you knuckleheads in this forum need to realize that your heroes in the GOP/Democratic Party don’t give two shits about you and that your partisan, non-compromising stance is quite honestly the root cause of our issues.

We like to thump the Constitution in this forum, but can you find me the provision in there that lays out a two-party system and the benefits that would have for our nation?
 

Blazers46

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And I come from the education field and I can tell you that parents are denying services with reputable partners who are licensed mental health providers because they think that their child talking to a trained counselor about their issues means they’re being indoctrinated.

Just for kicks, can you explain to me how to initiate a “healthy family values” conversation with a student who has one parent in jail for production of meth and has been molested by the other? Or how about the kid whose dad has been incarcerated multiple times for assaulting him after getting sauced? How do I proactively address these students and their peers who experience similar issues?

Bro, do you even work in the real world?

I feel like you just moved the sticks from saying the schools teaching XYZ to now talking about school partners.

Like I said. Working in the mental health field for over a decade primarily working in the clients home and seeing it first hand it was very much the real world. Not just working with the child but the meth addicted parents and incarcerated parents while sitting on the bed bug infested couches.

I lived it as well living in a somewhat broken home with no heat, no hot water, and the only working water was the bath tub so I had to bathe with dirty dishes in a very cluttered hoarder type lifestyle.

The biggest thing we learn as social workers was how to work with diverse groups of people and be aware of the cultures and values of those in our care. That is not happening. Social work and every school of social work clearly has an agenda. It’s fairly evident where I come from. Many people get into social work to deal with and validate their own issues, sadly… myself included. With that said I would be skeptical of any mental health training come from the schools. But that’s me… I can afford whatever my kids need and we run a pretty orderly disciplined ship with an emphasis on certain values. Even those that cannot afford it and are offered free services through the school or where ever are at least smart enough to question it. But then again there are many that would benefit from any sort of service. Im not saying screw all services. I just question the schools taking among themselves. Teachers are not mental health professionals.
 

SeekNDestroy

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Done. I'm out. Certainly not going to support someone such as yourself.

In addition to being a consistent spreader and distributor of fake news, IE also has an owner that frequently posts incoherent thoughts and sentences and is incapable of a discussion above the level of a 4 year old.

Well done though.

May want to rethink your business model and/or partners, @Whiskeyjack @IrishLax @Luckylucci @KPENN
You won’t be missed.
 

Blazers46

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And I come from the education field and I can tell you that parents are denying services with reputable partners who are licensed mental health providers because they think that their child talking to a trained counselor about their issues means they’re being indoctrinated.

Just for kicks, can you explain to me how to initiate a “healthy family values” conversation with a student who has one parent in jail for production of meth and has been molested by the other? Or how about the kid whose dad has been incarcerated multiple times for assaulting him after getting sauced? How do I proactively address these students and their peers who experience similar issues?

Bro, do you even work in the real world?
To the bolded… The fact that you have to ask tells me you aren’t qualified.
 

Bishop2b5

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So, stay calm and do nothing. Just like every other time. Always works. Why not address the stats that Cack posted that wreck the “intelligent” observations made by the IE red hat brigade … you know, like an adult? And stop with the self-gratifying nonsense about your maturity and intellect. It is comically douchy.
Guns are the underlying problem.
Nobody mentioned staying calm and doing nothing. I said getting all worked up and screaming & crying weren't effective, and to instead deal with the problem intelligently. As for Cack's stats, I don't read most of the nonsense he posts for the same reason I don't read The National Enquirer, People Magazine, or Tiger Beat.

Do you really think that guns are the underlying problem? Let me show you why they aren't. Let's do a thought experiment. Let's put 100 fully loaded guns in a room. What happens? Do any of them go off and do any damage? No. OK, I'll be more fair and realistic. Let's put fully loaded guns in the hands of 100 people at a shooting range. How many murders occur? None. Tens of thousands of shooters go to gun ranges every day and I can't recall the last time I heard of an intentional shooting at one. How about 100 police officers at the station house of a large PD? Happens hundreds of times per day across the country and even with all those guns, a shooting by officers in a crowded, highly armed police station is extremely rare to nonexistent. What about at a military base. Hundreds, maybe even thousands, of armed servicemen carrying loaded guns, yet gun violence is extremely rare on military bases. Now, you still want to claim the problem is the guns and not the behavior of people?

I want to add an additional thought to the above to further illustrate my point. Let's take 100 people with behavior, impulse control, character, and anger issues and put them together - inmates in a prison - without any guns. You think we get much violence... stabbings, rapes, murders, assaults, and etc.? Of course we do, on a daily basis. Even without guns, people with those traits will commit murder and assault on the regular. Even armed to the teeth, normal, law-abiding citizens won't. The bad behavior and crime aren't the fault of the guns. They're not the underlying issue. Behavior is.

Guns are no more the underlying problem with mass shootings than penises are with rape or cars with drunk driving accidents. It's behavior and values and a disconnect from normality in disturbed people. A fragmented society, the erosion of social norms, the erosion of personal responsibility, a coarsening of society and reduction in the respect we accord each other and civility with which we treat each other, and social media's driving of anger and isolation and encouragement of radical behavior all contribute to the problem. Now, do you want to solve the problem, or do you want to just keep parroting the party line about guns? Do you want to actually address the real underlying problem or not?
 
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TorontoGold

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Who is the victim here? I guess you’re the audience they have in mind.

Is this ok?



View attachment 3053224
The victim where? The tweets from two middle aged ladies talking about defending people from transphobes? Isn't it their right to bear arms? Don't people regularly post pictures like that about how they love their guns?

If you're asking about the Reuters article, I think they mention how many victims there were? Reuters is the vanilla ice cream of reporting, you'll have to be clear since I don't know where the issue is in their article.

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NorthDakota

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The victim where? The tweets from two middle aged ladies talking about defending people from transphobes? Isn't it their right to bear arms? Don't people regularly post pictures like that about how they love their guns?

If you're asking about the Reuters article, I think they mention how many victims there were? Reuters is the vanilla ice cream of reporting, you'll have to be clear since I don't know where the issue is in their article.

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I believe the issue is the headline seems to suggest this is just a disgruntled former student.
 

GATTACA!

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Nobody mentioned staying calm and doing nothing. I said getting all worked up and screaming & crying weren't effective, and to instead deal with the problem intelligently. As for Cack's stats, I don't read most of the nonsense he posts for the same reason I don't read The National Enquirer, People Magazine, or Tiger Beat.

Do you really think that guns are the underlying problem? Let me show you why they aren't. Let's do a thought experiment. Let's put 100 fully loaded guns in a room. What happens? Do any of them go off and do any damage? No. OK, I'll be more fair and realistic. Let's put fully loaded guns in the hands of 100 people at a shooting range. How many murders occur? None. Tens of thousands of shooters go to gun ranges every day and I can't recall the last time I heard of an intentional shooting at one. How about 100 police officers at the station house of a large PD? Happens hundreds of times per day across the country and even with all those guns, a shooting by officers in a crowded, highly armed police station is extremely rare to nonexistent. What about at a military base. Hundreds, maybe even thousands, of armed servicemen carrying loaded guns, yet gun violence is extremely rare on military bases. Now, you still want to claim the problem is the guns and not the behavior of people?

I want to add an additional thought to the above to further illustrate my point. Let's take 100 people with behavior, impulse control, character, and anger issues and put them together - inmates in a prison - without any guns. You think we get much violence... stabbings, rapes, murders, assaults, and etc.? Of course we do, on a daily basis. Even without guns, people with those traits will commit murder and assault on the regular. Even armed to the teeth, normal, law-abiding citizens won't. The bad behavior and crime aren't the fault of the guns. They're not the underlying issue. Behavior is.

Guns are no more the underlying problem with mass shootings than penises are with rape or cars with drunk driving accidents. It's behavior and values and a disconnect from normality in disturbed people. A fragmented society, the erosion of social norms, the erosion of personal responsibility, a coarsening of society and reduction in the respect we accord each other and civility with which we treat each other, and social media's driving of anger and isolation and encouragement of radical behavior all contribute to the problem. Now, do you want to solve the problem, or do you want to just keep parroting the party line about guns? Do you want to actually address the real underlying problem or not?
TLDR: Ignore the statistics and focus on my emotional completely hypothetical thought problem instead.
 

Bishop2b5

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TLDR: Ignore the statistics and focus on my emotional completely hypothetical thought problem instead.
You guys can keep ignoring the real problem all you want and it will continue. There will be more murders and mass shootings because you refuse to address the actual cause and instead parrot the party line. You know my thought experiment was 100% accurate. All the guns in the world in the hands of normal, law abiding citizens result in few if any murders. Put a bunch of non law abiding citizens together, even without guns, and violence is rampant. I don't know how to make it any clearer. GUNS ARE NOT THE PROBLEM! BEHAVIOR IS THE PROBLEM!


We had millions of guns around when I was growing up, yet mass shootings were very rare. Guns were just as available, if not more so, then. What's changed? It's not the guns or gun availability. It's behavior. Yes or no.. do you want to solve the problem or do you want to just keep mindlessly toeing the party line and parroting nonsense?
 

GATTACA!

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You guys can keep ignoring the real problem all you want and it will continue. There will be more murders and mass shootings because you refuse to address the actual cause and instead parrot the party line. You know my thought experiment was 100% accurate. All the guns in the world in the hands of normal, law abiding citizens result in few if any murders. Put a bunch of non law abiding citizens together, even without guns, and violence is rampant. I don't know how to make it any clearer. GUNS ARE NOT THE PROBLEM! BEHAVIOR IS THE PROBLEM!


We had millions of guns around when I was growing up, yet mass shootings were very rare. Guns were just as available, if not more so, then. What's changed? It's not the guns or gun availability. It's behavior. Yes or no.. do you want to solve the problem or do you want to just keep mindlessly toeing the party line and parroting nonsense?
Yes we’re definitely the emotional ones lol.
 

Greenore

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Toronto, sometime I think you are trolling? I honestly, don't know anymore and I am definitely caring less.

So you take no issue of inferences with the Reuters Headline:

Former Christian school student kills 3 children, 3 staff in Nashville shooting http://reut.rs/40tr91y

What about:

Transexual Terrorist plots and kills Christian children in brazen, calculated attack. Transexuals and their supports are calling for more violence.

Again, I would argue that the latter "headline" is factually correct but has just as obvious bias and/or agenda as the Reuters headline. Both are damaging and I am quite confident they were intended to incite anger in the targeted reader. Audrey/Aiden Hale knew sbe was going to die... likely suicide by police officers. The 3 children and 3 adults (I am sure) had no idea that was going to be their last day, I fear the shooter is becoming the victim in this horrible tragedy.

I saw body cam footage from the Nashville Police Officers on the scene. The term "Hero" gets tossed around a little too much for my liking but those guys truly are Heroes. I'm sure it will take a mental toll on them and their families as well.

Cheers and Go Irish!!
 

MacIrish75

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I feel like you just moved the sticks from saying the schools teaching XYZ to now talking about school partners.

Like I said. Working in the mental health field for over a decade primarily working in the clients home and seeing it first hand it was very much the real world. Not just working with the child but the meth addicted parents and incarcerated parents while sitting on the bed bug infested couches.

I lived it as well living in a somewhat broken home with no heat, no hot water, and the only working water was the bath tub so I had to bathe with dirty dishes in a very cluttered hoarder type lifestyle.

The biggest thing we learn as social workers was how to work with diverse groups of people and be aware of the cultures and values of those in our care. That is not happening. Social work and every school of social work clearly has an agenda. It’s fairly evident where I come from. Many people get into social work to deal with and validate their own issues, sadly… myself included. With that said I would be skeptical of any mental health training come from the schools. But that’s me… I can afford whatever my kids need and we run a pretty orderly disciplined ship with an emphasis on certain values. Even those that cannot afford it and are offered free services through the school or where ever are at least smart enough to question it. But then again there are many that would benefit from any sort of service. Im not saying screw all services. I just question the schools taking among themselves. Teachers are not mental health professionals.
Completely agree.
To the bolded… The fact that you have to ask tells me you aren’t qualified.
Also would agree with this. That’s why we partner with outside agencies who are much more qualified than my staff and I are. We’re great at identifying who may need support, but try and utilize the best resources at our disposal to help our kids.

To be fair, I still don’t think preaching to 11-16 year olds from broken homes is going to accomplish much to elicit a positive change…but again, I’m not qualified so what do I know? And I believe in family values. I see every day what the byproduct is of the destruction of the nuclear family, of two-parent homes. Of male role models for young men. Of great grandparents in their seventies raising pre-teens.

But, I also see kids overcome. I see single parents bust their asses to overcome their struggles to try and achieve more for their kids m. I see kids show up, when the world continues to give them every reason not to.

I think there’s space to believe in family values and the benefit of that, while also providing kids with resources that they can actually utilize to better their situation. It doesn’t do me much good to go the ER for a heart attack and have the doctor tell me that what I really need is to exercise and watch my salt and red meat intake. These kids already living in an environment without any semblance of family values. Preaching to them about the importance of sitting around the dinner table together while they don’t know if they’re even getting dinner tonight is probably going to fall flat.
 

Henges24

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Exactly. Homemade explosives, fire, blades, there's all kinds of other tools these people can and will use. The weapons change, but the venues stay the same. The solution has to be at the school level.
Check out the Bath, MI school massacre.
 

Irish#1

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Check out the Bath, MI school massacre.
Hadn't heard of that one before. That entire community had to be devastated. This is why it's important to focus on the mental health aspect. Those that are intent will find way regardless.
 

Blazers46

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Completely agree.

Also would agree with this. That’s why we partner with outside agencies who are much more qualified than my staff and I are. We’re great at identifying who may need support, but try and utilize the best resources at our disposal to help our kids.

To be fair, I still don’t think preaching to 11-16 year olds from broken homes is going to accomplish much to elicit a positive change…but again, I’m not qualified so what do I know? And I believe in family values. I see every day what the byproduct is of the destruction of the nuclear family, of two-parent homes. Of male role models for young men. Of great grandparents in their seventies raising pre-teens.

But, I also see kids overcome. I see single parents bust their asses to overcome their struggles to try and achieve more for their kids m. I see kids show up, when the world continues to give them every reason not to.

I think there’s space to believe in family values and the benefit of that, while also providing kids with resources that they can actually utilize to better their situation. It doesn’t do me much good to go the ER for a heart attack and have the doctor tell me that what I really need is to exercise and watch my salt and red meat intake. These kids already living in an environment without any semblance of family values. Preaching to them about the importance of sitting around the dinner table together while they don’t know if they’re even getting dinner tonight is probably going to fall flat.
I agree with most of this. Except I don’t think they are at the heart attack stage if they are just living in that situation. The heart attack is when they decide to shoot up the school or commit crimes based on their situation.

Relationship. Relationship. Relationship. Sure you cannot just preach at anyone for anything for any reason. Nobody listens to anyone they don’t like. Relationship ship is the primary goal and then planting those seeds. Sounds mundane but it takes a village. Sadly though the village (society) is lost, primarily because the values in the village have been trampled on and diluted.
 

TorontoGold

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Toronto, sometime I think you are trolling? I honestly, don't know anymore and I am definitely caring less.

So you take no issue of inferences with the Reuters Headline:

Former Christian school student kills 3 children, 3 staff in Nashville shooting http://reut.rs/40tr91y

What about:

Transexual Terrorist plots and kills Christian children in brazen, calculated attack. Transexuals and their supports are calling for more violence.

Again, I would argue that the latter "headline" is factually correct but has just as obvious bias and/or agenda as the Reuters headline. Both are damaging and I am quite confident they were intended to incite anger in the targeted reader. Audrey/Aiden Hale knew sbe was going to die... likely suicide by police officers. The 3 children and 3 adults (I am sure) had no idea that was going to be their last day, I fear the shooter is becoming the victim in this horrible tragedy.

I saw body cam footage from the Nashville Police Officers on the scene. The term "Hero" gets tossed around a little too much for my liking but those guys truly are Heroes. I'm sure it will take a mental toll on them and their families as well.

Cheers and Go Irish!!

I don't think there is any issue whatsoever with the Reuters headline. The person was a former student who did shoot up a Christian school. If I was a parent I would want people to know it was a Christian school that came under attack. I don't know the exact split, but it seems like a Christian school being shot up is more rare.

To your second "headline" the first part is correct even though it is a bit inflammatory. The second half is just inserting your personal bias as I'm not sure you actually believe that anyone with sympathy's to the trans community is actually calling for more violence.

Nobody is giving sympathies to the shooter and make them the victim?
 

TorontoGold

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You guys can keep ignoring the real problem all you want and it will continue. There will be more murders and mass shootings because you refuse to address the actual cause and instead parrot the party line. You know my thought experiment was 100% accurate. All the guns in the world in the hands of normal, law abiding citizens result in few if any murders. Put a bunch of non law abiding citizens together, even without guns, and violence is rampant. I don't know how to make it any clearer. GUNS ARE NOT THE PROBLEM! BEHAVIOR IS THE PROBLEM!


We had millions of guns around when I was growing up, yet mass shootings were very rare. Guns were just as available, if not more so, then. What's changed? It's not the guns or gun availability. It's behavior. Yes or no.. do you want to solve the problem or do you want to just keep mindlessly toeing the party line and parroting nonsense?
1680095878629.png
"Alexa, what happened in 1994"
 

Greenore

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To your second "headline" the first part is correct even though it is a bit inflammatory. The second half is just inserting your personal bias as I'm not sure you actually believe that anyone with sympathy's to the trans community is actually calling for more violence.

Nobody is giving sympathies to the shooter and make them the victim?

Honestly, I have no personal bias in this instance. I am merely trying to make a point about media controlling the narrative. In this very thread there have been posts/links that suggest trans supporters are calling for violence. Is it hyperbole or a moment of emotion or is it a valid threat? I don't know but at the end of the day, like some media coverage, it is pretty reckless.

Cheers and Go Irish!!
 

TorontoGold

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Honestly, I have no personal bias in this instance. I am merely trying to make a point about media controlling the narrative. In this very thread there have been posts/links that suggest trans supporters are calling for violence. Is it hyperbole or a moment of emotion or is it a valid threat? I don't know but at the end of the day, like some media coverage, it is pretty reckless.

Cheers and Go Irish!!
Ok, but when you made the second headline it wasn't remotely in the same league. Again, what Reuters reported was correct. What was reckless about it? What would you have liked them to say?
 
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