'24 IL DL Justin Scott (Miami [FL] Verbal)

[Rockin’Irish]

Do you think that ship has probably sailed?

Top guy for me is Charlie Partridge from Pitt. He's been a DC, HC at FAU, coached JJ Watt at Wisconsin and is the best of both worlds in terms of developing DL and recruiting. He has very deep connections in Florida. He's probably making somewhere in the range of $535-550K.

However, I don't think it is time to hand Washington a pink slip based on some wet pant whining and irrational panic on a message board.

Washington has only been on the job for a year…..his recruiting has been decent and I would say a step up from Elston. If his recruiting does not continue in a positive direction and the development of his players becomes stagnant over the next year or two, then we’ll have a case to make. I’m quite sure MF is paying attention as well.

 

[Pops Freshenmeyer]

I get the sense that this bridge is burned. I could be wrong about that, but I don't think Elston has much interest in returning to ND as a position coach, and I don't think Freeman has much interest in offering Elston any job above position coach.

Yes, that would require Elston returning with his tail between his legs and eating a demotion. But if he's on the market a certain segment of ND fans are going to pound the table for him hard.

 

[notredomer23]

I stumbled upon this thread because our very own @BobbyMac was in the mud and rational, but this thread really plays all the hits of IB subscribers AND a Grubl sighting.

 

[Dale]

I didn’t like how in 2022 we were after Nwankpa and then lost and came away with nothing. When we didn’t get Bowen, we came away with 3 others in 2023 which is more a sign of the support/structure under Freeman over BK. I don’t think O Leary is the best recruiter or coach, but I’m also not shoving him out the door or think he’s the worst or a weakness dragging ND down either.

Also, I think he was a low cost hire when ND backed up the trucks for Freeman as DC, like it or not. Then we needed continuity this year too.

 

[Jiggafini19Deux]

The "own backyard" bit is so played out. Honestly, give it a rest. Foskey is from California. Justin Tuck is from Alabama.

Steve Filer wasn't the guy we all thought he was going to be. Darius Fleming was a fifth round pick that had a four year cup of coffee in the NFL with two teams, one a Super Bowl with the Patriots and was out of the NFL by 25 years old.

You're an independent program that prides on not playing in a conference for football ever. Signing every Chicago recruit you offer isn't realistic anymore nor is it dire if you believe Notre Dame is what you say it is.

 

[dublinirish]

the irrationality of Chicagoland ND Facebook/Twitter fans have knows no bounds

 

[Jiggafini19Deux]

Maybe Nick Eason? I'm not sure if he'd leave Clemson, though.

He makes $750K a year at Clemson. He's the highest paid non coordinator on their staff.

If tightwad say your prayers nobody gets paid but me Dabo is giving this guy that much money, I think it's going to be a tough pry away from Clemson.

To your point, he's a good coach and has a very good reputation. It would be fantastic to have him on a coaching staff.

 

[CanadalovesND]

He makes $750K a year at Clemson. He's the highest paid non coordinator on their staff.

If tightwad say your prayers nobody gets paid but me Dabo is giving this guy that much money, I think it's going to be a tough pry away from Clemson.

To your point, he's a good coach and has a very good reputation. It would be fantastic to have him on a coaching staff.

He's a Clemson alum too

 

[Katzenboyer]

I don't want to say Scott is FOS, but kid, come the f*ck on.

You're in Rick Astley territory in this recruitment. You know the rules and so does ND.

Either you are all in on NIL or not. If you are prioritizing NIL, then ND isn't going to play that game. They've been burned far too many times. They don't have the time to invest on a kid who's just going to jump ship for the bag down the line after he's told them he's firm for months. Put up or shut up.

Either you're in or you're out. Quit pinning this on ND. One way or another, this is on YOU.

This. The "ND could be doing more" line makes it so abundantly clear that this kid wants one thing, and one thing only: upfront NIL money.

This isn't a matter of ND not doing enough. It's a matter of ND saying "we're not going to put cash in your hands simply for signing on the dotted line." If that's what a kid is after, feel free to play at A&M, Miami, etc.

 

[Katzenboyer]

Also, Jamie at ISD - who played and coached DL - has offered a full-throated defense of Washington, and that's enough for me.

Elston, after the 2016 class, recruited like dog$hit. We're currently making chicken salad out of chicken feathers, and our last two classes show the future is bright - but there's a lot of guys last year who played out of position because of Elston's lousy recruiting since the '16 class.

This whole narrative is just plain silly.

 

[Irishdrunk]

I think we’re giving too much credit to planning and strategy here.

He wants more attention from ND = $$$


Whenever the recruit wants to seemingly deliver a message through a reporter, which IB falls for consistently, it’s an alarm bell.

Agreed. This will be another ND 5 Star NIL fail.

 

[ColinKSU]

Let me guess, IB was left with egg on their face because they publicly declared he was going to choose ND?

Quickest way to make a life-long enemy of someone with a massive ego is to play a role in them being wrong about something.

 

[dublinirish]

Also, Jamie at ISD - who played and coached DL

he didnt coach ALL AMERICANS like Coach Driskell tho

 

[ColinKSU]

he didnt coach ALL AMERICANS like Coach Driskell tho

Jamie needs to come back to us when he has "went to a D1 program's coaching clinic a couple of times" on his resume.

 

[NDFAN2008]

Would be nice if he was visiting for our JR day

 

[Jiggafini19Deux]

According to Rivals ND is the only school he's visited twice, November 2021 and July 2022. He's about an hour and a half from Notre Dame.

Any additional visits would have to have real significance. He's been to campus twice. Probably has a really good idea about what the place is about. He's being touted as the best player in the state and one of the best if not the best at his position. He's getting offers from every Power Five corner of the country.

The people whining now are the same ones who would get all geeked out over a verbal commitment to ND this weekend only to cry crocodile tears when he flips later on because he didn't take visits and play the process out.

 

[Irishdrunk]

According to Rivals ND is the only school he's visited twice, November 2021 and July 2022. He's about an hour and a half from Notre Dame.

Any additional visits would have to have real significance. He's been to campus twice. Probably has a really good idea about what the place is about. He's being touted as the best player in the state and one of the best if not the best at his position. He's getting offers from every Power Five corner of the country.

The people whining now are the same ones who would get all geeked out over a verbal commitment to ND this weekend only to cry crocodile tears when he flips later on because he didn't take visits and play the process out.

He is getting NIL offers. FIFY

 

[IrishLion]

Agreed. This will be another ND 5 Star NIL fail.

He is getting NIL offers. FIFY

Pony up and land him for us then, high roller!

 

[CanadalovesND]

Also, Jamie at ISD - who played and coached DL - has offered a full-throated defense of Washington, and that's enough for me.

Elston, after the 2016 class, recruited like dog$hit. We're currently making chicken salad out of chicken feathers, and our last two classes show the future is bright - but there's a lot of guys last year who played out of position because of Elston's lousy recruiting since the '16 class.

This whole narrative is just plain silly.

Fun fact about Jamie - he played on the same defensive line as Jared Allen at Idaho State.

 

[Luckylucci]

Also, Jamie at ISD - who played and coached DL - has offered a full-throated defense of Washington, and that's enough for me.

Elston, after the 2016 class, recruited like dog$hit. We're currently making chicken salad out of chicken feathers, and our last two classes show the future is bright - but there's a lot of guys last year who played out of position because of Elston's lousy recruiting since the '16 class.

This whole narrative is just plain silly.

I think the Washington criticism is a little much on the recruiting side of things (he's doing quite well, IMO), we'll see on the coaching/development but this is an equally bad take.

Blue Chips recruits, Elston recruited, starting with the 2018 class are; Jayson Ademilola, Jacob Lacey, Isaiah Foskey, Nana Osafo Mensah, Hunter Spears, Howard Cross (in the 2019 class alone he recruited 5 blue chip DL), Jordan Botelho, Rylie Mills, Gabriel Rubio, Tyson Ford, and Aiden Gobaira. That's 11 blue chip prospects. Is that elite? No. Is that dog shit? Not even close.

You realize that the for the '22 class, Elston was recruiting coordinator and DL coach, right? You realize that it was Elston and Freeman that got commitments from Vernon and Keeley, right?

The reason the DL is in this situation or could be in this situation will be because Washington is unable to "develop" the guys he inherited or he loses them to the portal. It's complete and utter BS to have a depth chart with several blue chip recruits and act like it's beneath him or not good enough. Washington will quite literally have a starting DL of Blue chip recruits because of Elston.

 

[ThePiombino]

I don’t understand the need for who’s the coach that we should fire. Like I really want someone to lose their job is a weird hill to always live on.

Really? It's really not THAT hard to understand -- it's essentially culling. Remove the wink links and, consequently, [with the assumption that the new hire(s) is/are no longer the weakest link] you strengthen the group as a whole.

 

[Luckylucci]

Just so we're all on the same page.

Look at the DB position group and realize that it got last season's performance from BenMo, Mickey, Bracy, Cam Hart, Clarence Lewis, Henderson, and Watts. 2 blue chip Freshman and 5 non-blue chip upperclassmen. With none of them in the top 200.

Next season, Washington could have a starting 4 of Mills, Cross, Botelho, and Rubio. All, 4 star, blue chip recruits and 3 inside the top 150.

 

[Dale]

Really? It's really not THAT hard to understand -- it's essentially culling. Remove the wink links and, consequently, [with the assumption that the new hire(s) is/are no longer the weakest link] you strengthen the group as a whole.

I think you’re missing my confusion/point. I clearly understand making the staff as elite as possible. I don’t understand posters/people in general that seem to have “I want someone fired” as one of their constant qualities.

 

[ThePiombino]

I think you’re missing my confusion/point. I clearly understand making the staff as elite as possible. I don’t understand posters/people in general that seem to have “I want someone fired” as one of their constant qualities.

You're missing my point actually. I'm providing an explanation for that behavior. They are effectively culling the staff.

 

[Jiggafini19Deux]

Really? It's really not THAT hard to understand -- it's essentially culling. Remove the wink links and, consequently, [with the assumption that the new hire(s) is/are no longer the weakest link] you strengthen the group as a whole.

This particular group has been together for a year, not even.

The Rees venom sure has died down with signing Minchey, winning the bowl and getting Hartman in the portal. I think if we're being honest, it is always going to be someone regardless of the situation and circumstances. For a lot of people it has nothing to do with strengthening the weakest link, it's blame having to be projected somewhere. It's lack of perspective that sometimes, you just get beat, and only one team can win a championship. ND hasn't won one is so long that the blame and reasoning has to fall on at least one person.

The arrow seems to be shifting to Washington for some people. I'm not sure I understand it but it could change before we know it. I'm willing to predict that when the Michael Mayer fall off happens at tight end, the dudes eating hot pockets in their mom's basements are going after Coach Parker full throttle.

 

[irishnd31]

This particular group has been together for a year, not even.

The Rees venom sure has died down with signing Minchey, winning the bowl and getting Hartman in the portal. I think if we're being honest, it is always going to be someone regardless of the situation and circumstances. For a lot of people it has nothing to do with strengthening the weakest link, it's blame having to be projected somewhere. It's lack of perspective that sometimes, you just get beat, and only one team can win a championship. ND hasn't won one is so long that the blame and reasoning has to fall on at least one person.

The arrow seems to be shifting to Washington for some people. I'm not sure I understand it but it could change before we know it. I'm willing to predict that when the Michael Mayer fall off happens at tight end, the dudes eating hot pockets in their mom's basements are going after Coach Parker full throttle.

Yes to all.

My bet is on Mason if we don't block a punt all year.

 

[StPaul_Irish]

Yes to all.

My bet is on Mason if we don't block a punt all year.

No no no, you are WAY OFF....

It will be Mason, and it will be as soon as we "fair catch" 2 in a row.

 

[Jiggafini19Deux]

Yes to all.

My bet is on Mason if we don't block a punt all year.

Foskey blocked a few of those, so that's another area that could regress. It will go from "pay him whatever he wants" to "one year wonder".

People are either freaking out when these guys leave or counting down the days to seeing them leave. It's an interesting dynamic.

 

[Katzenboyer]

I think the Washington criticism is a little much on the recruiting side of things (he's doing quite well, IMO), we'll see on the coaching/development but this is an equally bad take.

Blue Chips recruits, Elston recruited, starting with the 2018 class are; Jayson Ademilola, Jacob Lacey, Isaiah Foskey, Nana Osafo Mensah, Hunter Spears, Howard Cross (in the 2019 class alone he recruited 5 blue chip DL), Jordan Botelho, Rylie Mills, Gabriel Rubio, Tyson Ford, and Aiden Gobaira. That's 11 blue chip prospects. Is that elite? No. Is that dog shit? Not even close.

You realize that the for the '22 class, Elston was recruiting coordinator and DL coach, right? You realize that it was Elston and Freeman that got commitments from Vernon and Keeley, right?

The reason the DL is in this situation or could be in this situation will be because Washington is unable to "develop" the guys he inherited or he loses them to the portal. It's complete and utter BS to have a depth chart with several blue chip recruits and act like it's beneath him or not good enough. Washington will quite literally have a starting DL of Blue chip recruits because of Elston.

Foskey is an absolute home run. No doubt about it. Jayson A too. But both of those guys were were in the 2018 and 2019 classes. We're in a weak position going into next year because Elston didn't recruit, "hit on" or develop players like those guys in the years to come, and we're at a depth disadvantage because of it heading into next season.

• Lacey? Gone.
• Nana? Flashed this year, which Washington deserves credit for.
• Spears? Moved to OL in 2020, medically retired in 2021, a year before Elston left.
• Cross has been forced to play out of position at nose tackle this year because of the lackluster recruiting on Elston's part in the time before he left.
• Botelho has flashed, but it took him until the end of this year to do so (again, credit to Washington perhaps?)
• Mills is a solid player but hasn't been a difference maker and has been forced to play out of position.
• Same for Rubio.
• The jury is still out on Ford and Gobaira, but I count both as Freeman guys (see below) and ownership of their development rests on Washinton.

You also conveniently omit any mention of some MAJOR whiffs that took place on Elston's watch. Kofi Wardlow, Alex Ehrensberger, Will Schweitzer, and Devin Aupui are huge misses, and a big reason why the DL is thin headed into next season.

Finally, forgive me if I'm not going to give credit to Elston for 22 and 23 when it's clear that those classes are the work of MF, a fact made evident by Elston simply not getting guys like the DL in both those classes before MF arrived. In the three classes prior to MF's arrival (going by Rivals rankings), ND didn't land a single front seven player on the DL ranked in the national top 100. MF has landed three of those guys in 22 and 23.

Mike Elston was a great DL coach. He is significantly overrated as an evaluator and recruiter.

 

[Luckylucci]

Foskey is an absolute home run. No doubt about it. Jayson A too. But both of those guys were were in the 2018 and 2019 classes. We're in a weak position going into next year because Elston didn't recruit, "hit on" or develop players like those guys in the years to come, and we're at a depth disadvantage because of it heading into next season.

• Lacey? Gone.
• Nana? Flashed this year, which Washington deserves credit for.
• Spears? Moved to OL in 2020, medically retired in 2021, a year before Elston left.
• Cross has been forced to play out of position at nose tackle this year because of the lackluster recruiting on Elston's part in the time before he left.
• Botelho has flashed, but it took him until the end of this year to do so (again, credit to Washington perhaps?)
• Mills is a solid player but hasn't been a difference maker and has been forced to play out of position.
• Same for Rubio.
• The jury is still out on Ford and Gobaira, but I count both as Freeman guys (see below) and ownership of their development rests on Washinton.

You also conveniently omit any mention of some MAJOR whiffs that took place on Elston's watch. Kofi Wardlow, Alex Ehrensberger, Will Schweitzer, and Devin Aupui are huge misses, and a big reason why the DL is thin headed into next season.

Finally, forgive me if I'm not going to give credit to Elston for 22 and 23 when it's clear that those classes are the work of MF, a fact made evident bbecause Elston wasn't getting guys like the DL in both those classes before MF arrived. In the three classes prior to MF's arrival (going by Rivals rankings), ND didn't land a single front seven player on the DL ranked in the national top 100. MF has landed three of those guys in 22 and 23.

Mike Elston was a great DL coach. He is significantly overrated as an evaluator and recruiter.

Correct, you said he recruited like dogshit since 2016. So, I'm glad we both accept that statement was ludicrous and wrong.

Again, you said recruit and then go on to list why Washington isn't getting enough out of a bunch of 4 star guys. Sounds like a Washington problem, if that's the case, and not an Elston problem.

Cool, I'll play by those rules as well and Washington hasn't recruited a single player to ND and he is fucking awful. You know, because Freeman landed all of those guys.