2022-2023 ND Women's Basketball Thread

notredomer23

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At OMM's request

ND is ranked 9th. They beat NIU in their first game 88-48 with Olivia Miles going for 17,10, and 6.
 

Old Man Mike

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Thanks, gentlemen. (I couldn't find the place where one creates a thread anew, so I'm happy that one of you guys did the honors.)

As to this year's team, from too-early observations.
1. We have four starters back from a very good (at the season's end) team.
2. BUT, we still lost three of our four best defensive players (our GREAT defensive center plus Peoples and Prohaska.)
3. The only proven outstanding defender we have left is Sonja Citron, who will stay all year in others' shadows until the world notices that she stuffs the stat sheet plus defends plus hustles eternally plus puts a stop to other team's runs. She is our second best player to her super-sister, Olivia Miles. I believe that Miles will add outstanding defense to her game this season to go along with being close to the best player in the nation.
4. Coach Ivey is hoping that two transfers plus one oft-injured vet can fill the gap at center. Ebo (from Texas) seems a good candidate to do that, but at a minimum, we should have 15 "fouls-to-give" from physically strong players at the Five position (plus give Maddy Westbeld some rest.) In the game vs Northern Illinois though, the leading rebounders were Miles and Citron.
5. Dara Mabrey has been playing here since the last century and still is. She not only gives Ivey a serious three-point threat but, more importantly is a second point guard on the floor. And she is a VERY serious player, so, good leadership. Miles should become a real on-court leader this season too --- last year was too soon, and Citron showed leadership beyond her age late last season.
6. The biggest issue for me this season is: How much does Maddy Westbeld "want" it? She was uncharacteristically brain-dead on the court for a good part of last year. Ended up playing to her standards (nearly) but very puzzling. Perhaps she'll get a role she really likes, gets in shape, and runs and rebounds hard. If Westbeld gets back to her freshman year levels, this team with Miles, Citron, Mabrey, and herself will be fielding four players challenging for all-ACC honors. Westbeld along with Miles are already on watchlists.
7. Backing up our three superguards will be the third transfer and our lone freshman. The frosh SHOULD be really good as she integrates with the vets --- comments have been upbeat.
8. All of that gives us four bigs and five guards to rotate and find combinations. Sonja Citron, as usual, can herself fill a gap at power-forward if we want to go "small ball." We also lost Gilbert to transfer--- a good talent, but one that Ivey couldn't find the right fit for. The fourth transfer was Brunelle --- a VERY soft player who could not play defense nor rebound even when she wanted to. Fans should not immediately discount the loss of Peoples and Prohaska --- those two were savages on defense regardless of offensive limitations. I predict a good year for Peoples wherever she went.
9. This is also a good test of Ivey. She is still light-years from replacing Muffet, but OK who could have? Still, some of her coaching left me cold last season --- maybe the girls (especially Westbeld) didn't all buy in --- note we have had four transfers, two (maybe three) of whom would have played a fair number of minutes. I also didn't like her being absent from team practice during the NCAA tournament (going to watch her son play at Purdue) --- yes, I am a too-serious grump on that, but THE job is still THE job. All will be well if this team rolls. And, if we get anything solid out of the centers, and no serious injury problems, this team should really roll.

As I mentioned: The girls play California on live TV this Saturday, and Northwestern on next Wednesday. Two tough opponents and early, but should be good for us.
 

stpeteirish

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noteworthy we only had one signee today Emma Risch from Palm Bay Fl. Nice wing shooter type. Will fit in well with Mabrey leaving. Need some bigs.

Ivey seems to like a rather short roster but we'll be really short next year unless we hit the portal again.
 

clashmore_mike

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noteworthy we only had one signee today Emma Rusch from Palm Bay Fl. Nice wing shooter type.

Ivey seems to like a rather short roster but we'll be really short next year unless we hit the portal again.
I do believe I saw one of the other commits is having her signing ceremony Monday and the 3rd commit hasn't given an indication when she'll sign yet The signing period is open until next Wednesday.
 

Old Man Mike

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Report on the California game:
1. The girls won 90-79. Game was one of those stiff-arm games, keeping the opponent at about 9 points all game. But the game got closer at the worst time (late in the fourth, when it got down to three.)
2. The reason the game was close: A. The main issue was REALLY lousy refereeing --- ticky-tack-to-completely fictional fouls. We could not adjust our play to that as well as California. Due to this incompetent refereeing, several key ND players spent large minutes on the bench. Most important to the game flow was putting Westbeld on the pine. It looks as if Maddy is a piece essential to the offense and with a skill set no one else can replace. Importantly Miles spent serious late time on the bench. B. most of our new players aren't well integrated yet, though they look like they'll get there. They were lost on defense regularly, and on the boards. C. Surprisingly to me, Sonja Citron was not able to help fill the foul-burdened pieces like I thought she would. She was quite indecisive in many plays. Hopefully that will change, and should. D. Ivey didn't add much to the play. Maybe she needs more time with these lineups. E. Cal had a supernatural shooter and also a junkysrd dog undersized battler. These two were problems.
3. Dara Mabrey won the game. When others were cracking, she held strong on all aspects of play. Ultimately she too fouled out, but she had gotten us to the winning threshold.
4. The Oregon transfer (Watson?) looks very good to me. I can easily see why she starts over Ebo. Marshall also helped a lot in the 4/5 position. If she's healthy she will help. The freshman guard has real potential too.
5. Miles started like a first team AA, but Cal adjusted and thwarted most of her "stuff" as the game went on.
 

TNUtoNotreDame

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Good games by the girls, frustrating because the amount of fouls but I think we'll be pretty good this year.
 

stpeteirish

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I do believe I saw one of the other commits is having her signing ceremony Monday and the 3rd commit hasn't given an indication when she'll sign yet The signing period is open until next Wednesday.
Word is we aren’t getting either.
 

laughingirish90

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not only a good win but our irish also later this evening got a verbal from big time 4 star player Prosper
 

ab2cmiller

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5 star, #1 PG in 2023 Hannah Hidalgo committed to Notre Dame to wrap up their class.

That’s three 5 stars in this class that’ll be apart of the #9 team in the country that returns 4 starters next year.

Ivey might have something rolling here.
Heck of a class
 

laughingirish90

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5 star, #1 PG in 2023 Hannah Hidalgo committed to Notre Dame to wrap up their class.

That’s three 5 stars in this class that’ll be apart of the #9 team in the country that returns 4 starters next year.

Ivey might have something rolling here.
and all three are finalists for the naismith award that goes to the top high school player in the nation
 

Old Man Mike

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The girls beat Northwestern 92-58 or something in that vicinity. They were just better all around. Northwestern made a whole game admirable effort, despite being behind by 30 early in the third. That coach must be good at getting what he can out of his players. Their best player was tossed in the second quarter (coming on court from bench violation) but it wouldn't really have made much difference.

Olivia Miles showed that she still has a little maturity issue. She still plays a bit like she's in a streetball game, which includes some dumb confrontational chirping or posturing. She got a technical during the oncourt confrontation between Marshall and a NW player, and then got a second one in the third quarter for an even dumber chirping. Sonja Citron tried to save her, but she was too late getting there. Two techs ---> gone. Hopefully this is a lesson learned.

Citron was the big star. Twenty-some points and ten rebounds, and calm all over. Mabrey was good. Miles was good when she was playing BBall. Westbeld was OK. Ebo just beat up the NW inside by gravitational mass effects. Whenever we play a weak interior team, she will be effective, even though she's a bit of a matador on defense. Watson is the better center. When you watch her you feel that she is just one minute upgrade from being really top grade.

Ivey didn't run up the score. We were up 30 early in the third and that's where it stayed. NW was so terrible at footspeed vs drives to the lane, that there was nothing a coach could do no matter who we had in the game. A lot of the fourth quarter had Miles out, Mabrey on bench alongside Westbeld and Marshall. Ivey left Citron out there (we only play 9) as the calming integrating influence. Even with that, some of our new players get soft in the head and float bad passes. Hopefully that will cure.

We'll have a lot more trouble when he opponent puts more interior force in the paint. We had over 50 rebounds in this game.
 

Irish#1

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The ladies cruised against Ball State. Cards stayed with them early, but too much talent to handle. Out rebounded the Cards 50-24! Mabrey was hitting 3's early. Miles was golden with 13pts, 11 assists and 7 boards.
 

Old Man Mike

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Would have liked to have seen this game for reasons mentioned in a moment.

Once again, this was the guards' game and once again it was Sonja Citron's starshow but as usually with her, quietly. The Notre Dame site has the very valuable stat of the +/- effect of being in the game. We won by 35 and Olivia Miles had a +/- of 35. That was SECOND on the team to Citron's 39. (i.e. when Sonja was playing, we outscored them by 39 points. To get the perspective: Watson was third at 20; Mabrey 18; Bransford 17; Westbeld 16; Ebo 9. Ebo, by the way, got 27 minutes of playing time, most of any big, but only a +/- of 9. Many explanations are possible, but this jibes with my observations that Ebo is SLOW and can't really play defense. My guess is that she messes up the helpside defense regularly.

What I would have liked to have seen: the reason that Westbeld would start every quarter and be subbed out (never to return) after 2 1/2 to 3 minutes. I'm hoping that she was recovering from flu/dehydration or something like that, rather than Ivey being upset about play.
 

clashmore_mike

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I wondered the same about Westbeld's minutes. She didn't seem to be playing poorly at all just really wasn't involved much in the action. Her recovering from something seems very possible.
 

laughingirish90

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one of the ladies calling the game on the accn sunday said that Olivia at guard reminds her of magic johnson when it comes to passing the ball. if this team can stay out of foul trouble and Olivia continues to improve her 3 pt shooting then i think we have a team with a really good shot at making the final four. you add the nations #1 ranked recruiting class coming in next season to the players that can come back then this team could just be ridiculous next year
 

Old Man Mike

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In my opinion, the keys to this team going to the Final Four are: (I'm assuming no injuries of course)
A. Dara consistently giving us three point threats; (This is a lot more important than many think.)
B. Ivey growing as a coach (especially halftime adjustments --- these games won't be runaways);
C. WATSON. I believe that she can become a very high quality center.

Olivia and Sonja are a tremendous base off of which to build. Hopefully Maddy comes along with the Wave.
A wildcard: KKB is very intriguing. She's VERY physical. I see more than glimmers that she can develop (rapidly) into a real problem for opponents. The attitude seems naturally there, and there are lots of talents. I can't see Ebo helping in the tough games (Way out of game shape, and pure mass won't work vs a strong opponent in the post. Bad defense will crush any positive offense.) On the other hand, Marshall is showing me good signs of wanting to play and mix it up. Even Brown shows me some early value and toughness.

I think that this team is potentially deeper than Muffet's teams in terms of having 8 genuinely competitive players. Ebo being the 9th. This team might not have to wait until next season. Early Koolaid, but just possible.
 

laughingirish90

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In my opinion, the keys to this team going to the Final Four are: (I'm assuming no injuries of course)
A. Dara consistently giving us three point threats; (This is a lot more important than many think.)
B. Ivey growing as a coach (especially halftime adjustments --- these games won't be runaways);
C. WATSON. I believe that she can become a very high quality center.

Olivia and Sonja are a tremendous base off of which to build. Hopefully Maddy comes along with the Wave.
A wildcard: KKB is very intriguing. She's VERY physical. I see more than glimmers that she can develop (rapidly) into a real problem for opponents. The attitude seems naturally there, and there are lots of talents. I can't see Ebo helping in the tough games (Way out of game shape, and pure mass won't work vs a strong opponent in the post. Bad defense will crush any positive offense.) On the other hand, Marshall is showing me good signs of wanting to play and mix it up. Even Brown shows me some early value and toughness.

I think that this team is potentially deeper than Muffet's teams in terms of having 8 genuinely competitive players. Ebo being the 9th. This team might not have to wait until next season. Early Koolaid, but just possible.
i think you are right on several areas and can we both agree that the early december Maryland and more UCONN games will tell us a lot on whether this team is a true final contender for team for this season
 

Old Man Mike

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The girls play tonight vs Maryland on National TV so we can get another check on their quality.

On a sidenote: I was interested in how our former teammates are doing at their transfer sites.
A. All their teams have winning records, and three of them (Gilbert, Brunelle, and Peoples) are starting.
B. Brunelle gets 12ppg at Virginia with 5 rebounds and 50% shooting (all of these are through 7 games.)
apparently she is attracting some honors attention. This is surprising to me given her inability to get tough or defensively aware at ND, but more power to her --- maybe she's grown up;
C. Peoples starts for Depaul, sometimes (misplaced in my opinion) at point guard. As a natural small forward, she averages 8ppg and over 7 rebounds a game. Shoots 36+%. She apparently is the same tough player that we saw and now gets to play more and lead. Happy for Anaya --- coach's type of player;
D. Gilbert starts for Missouri, and has been growing into their point guard role. Only averages 3.6ppg but 3 assists per, and 50% shooting. The coaching staff has hinted that she may turn out to be their best player. Unfortunately, her injury bug has bit her again, and she's currently out (briefly it is said.);
E. Prohaska is doing exactly what we would have guessed --- one of the first off the bench and playing half the game. She's averaging 8ppg and over 4 rebounds. Still no great shooter (36%) but I'll bet that the San Diego coaching staff love her and her in-your-face leadership.

I consistently had the greatest admiration for Anaya and Abby, both high energy tough players, and thought that Katlyn simply couldn't catch a break. Samantha was one our biggest letdowns from a staff's teaching point of view. But, barring Katlyn's injury, all our girls are doing well, so Life is good. Wish Abby and Anaya were still on the team, but, particularly for Anaya, the change is probably good. (There are times, though folks, when we could use more than just Sonia as a defensive stopper, and both Anaya and Abby can do that job.)
 

laughingirish90

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wbb team lost to Maryland terps tonight because they played like sh%t. they were a turnover machine while not being able to rebound and plus they missed a lot of key free throws also. UCONN beats our team by 20 plus pts sunday if they don't play way better. were a great team running up and down court but force up to play a half court game like the terps did tonight and we are a different team in a bad way
 

stpeteirish

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Yeah,bad loss at home. First time I’ve seen them this year. Wondering what the hell is going on with Westbeld. She can’t do anything. Was the best player on the team two years ago got worse last year and now is unplayable.
Still would have won if we could have come up with a defensive plan which would have gotten the ball out of Millers hands. Plenty of turnovers to be had vs someone who’ll go 1 on 5.
 

Old Man Mike

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Couldn't watch game live. Will try later. Sneaked a few peaks. Ivey seemed totally outcoached --- team looked buffooned by simple zone. Very few glimpses of players wanting to attack the game. Except Citron, of course. Sonia had a double double and seemed to be herself. Miles in the first half seemed reduced to a nothing player. Weird.
 

irishrb

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Yeah,bad loss at home. First time I’ve seen them this year. Wondering what the hell is going on with Westbeld. She can’t do anything. Was the best player on the team two years ago got worse last year and now is unplayable.
Still would have won if we could have come up with a defensive plan which would have gotten the ball out of Millers hands. Plenty of turnovers to be had vs someone who’ll go 1 on 5.
Totally thought the same thing about Westbeld...Holy Mess...Definitely not what I was expecting to see from this team...Sloppy, outhustled, and outcoached.
 

Old Man Mike

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Watched first half pretty closely just now.
A. Mabrey not hitting anything was really hampering.
B. Miles was a deficit. Our big comeback was when she got her second foul and Ivey benched her.
C. Citron was her quiet All-American self. Kept us in it almost by herself.
D. This team has no clue as to how to play help defense. (Citron and maybe KKB are exceptions --- Watson half the time.) How many even attempted charges did we see, despite that the majority of the MD offense was long arced dribbling down the lane.
E. Ebo is astoundingly slow, plus has no clue as to how switching and helping works.
F. Whole team is somewhat slow. This REQUIRES good senses of help defense by teammates.
G. Watson lacks confidence. She HAS to take certain shots and that's partly on Ivey.
H. I still have some hope for her and KKB to develop. KKB is ready mentally to "get after it." The whole team has a huge deficit in this area. Need more athleticism on the court.
I. Westbeld .... horrible. Sleepwalking ... unhappy with style and role?

If I had "my" team available this year, Anaya Peoples and Abby Prohaska would have taken the floor at some time with Citron, Watson, and one point guard, and the MD offense would have dropped to almost nothing. AND, the five would have played together and with fire.

Maybe I'll change my mind as I watch the second half if I do.
 

IrishLax

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I thought the officiating was atrocious last night. Refs let Maryland get away with murder being "physical" and Miles got in foul trouble for ticky tack nonsense. They also missed repeated violations on Maryland like carries, travels, etc. They were late on jump ball calls. Just an overall mess. I don't think ND played well but they should've been able to escape with a win if the game was called tighter.
 

Old Man Mike

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Agree on the general assessment of the officials. They looked like rookies. They often stared at another one of themselves when the call was theirs right in front of them. But we still lost the game by being by far the less determined physical team. With the exceptions of KKB and Citron, I rarely saw a ND player go at a rebound with both hands. Bransford only had two rebounds, but she at least looked like she wanted to mix it up. Sonia on the other hand, had TEN rebounds, nine on the defensive end. Our next leading rebounder had six total (Westbeld) or four defensive (Miles.)

Sonia needed to play the whole game: over 38 minutes. Bransford, who to my eye is the second most consistently hard-working player on the floor, put in 26 minutes off the bench. I'm beginning to think that she needs to start. I hate soft teams. This one is, largely, soft. Even the great mass of Ebo plays soft on pass reception and rebounding in traffic. Watson stuns me that she plays soft as much as she does --- she has the tools to be a lot better. Ivey needs to tell those bigs that she wants them wading into the rack and doesn't mind them fouling out. Westbeld ... I just can't understand. "Disinterested" or "half-in-the-ozone" are words that come to mind. I have NO ability to relate at all to that, so feel I must be wrong. But what else is going on?

Right now I'd play Citron and Bransford and try to tinker together a five out of that. Miles has to play, but some asschewing needs to occur. My issue would be: could I get away with just one Big? Both Citron and Bransford play semi-big, so maybe. I can't believe that Watson can't get there. But ... I wonder if playing Westbeld as the only Big would wake her up? Dara has to play, but against only certain defenses and otherwise off the bench? She scraps but is no Marina when it comes to mean physicality. Even Mykala had her evil ways.

This team needs a coach who can knock some "sense"/fear/urgency into them. Lord I wish we still had Anaya and Abby. They would not let this softness happen. Sonia is trying to lead in the huddle breaks, but Dara tends to bully her out of the talk. KKB is too young. Miles is still too much in her own head. This team lacks player leadership to my eye, and Ivey is not filling that void. (at least in-game.)
 
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