Marcus Freeman Revisited

[WilliamWallace]

For reference Brian Kelly went 1-3 in his first 4 games in his first season as HC of ND in 2010. He won 7 regular season games that year. He did inherit a team that was average.

I’d say the biggest difference is that he was already an established HC when he was hired. He knew enough to make the right calls and adjustments to keep the W/L record positive over the last several seasons. MF is getting OTJ training. This is going to be a tough season for him, the team, and all of us. I think it’s too early to pull the plug unless he doesn’t show improvement. Or isn’t willing/capable of making tough personnel decisions.

TBH, I’m not convinced MF can call a game better than Rees offensively. I think he needs to take a CEO approach right now (if he’s not already doing so), then spend as much time with the offense as possible to create his own coaching style on that side of the ball. At the very least he should be learning it to be able to take over when shit hits the fan.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

i am more upset that i catch myself asking, was Brian Kelly a better coach than I thought? I hate the guy, but sometimes the grass isnt always greener despite the early video euphoria with freeman. Its super early, but the returns so far have been pretty ugly.

It was clear that Kelly had hit his ceiling and would never win a championship at ND. So it was time to move on regardless of his quality, which always involves a significant amount of risk. I'm still glad we gambled on Freeman and roster upgrades rather than waiting for Fickell and losing the recruiting class. Fickell would have been Kelly 2.0.

 

[ACamp1900]

I don’t care if ND hires youth, experience, pro, college, whatever,… the key is whoever they hire cannot lose. Ever.

I’m layered in that way

 

[WilliamWallace]

It’s an underrated perspective that Freeman needs to develop an offensive vision for this program. Well said.

Thank you sir, I think we were saying the same thing.

But best example I can up with is none other than Nick Saban himself. Defensive minded coach that dictates and adjusts what his offense is doing. Not a bad example to try to live by as far as success on the field.

I would love nothing more than a player, players coach, to succeed at ND. He’d be the epitome of college football. He has everything but the experience.

If he’d just call me for advice, we’d be ranked #1 right now! Or 0-2

 

[du Lac]

This is a convenient novel you’ve posted given your past views. What happened to MF coaching well at OSU?

It was fairly predictable that the fanbase would turn on him on a dime given the circumstances of his hire, his headcoaching inexperience, and the recency bias of Kelly’s good/great (not championship) seasons.

As I said before, Freeman is going to have to be aggressive about making changes when his assistant coaches don’t perform. He also needs to play the young guys who are hungry and not pay deference to upperclassmen who take their opportunities for granted. His ascent as a head coach will be contingent on whether or not he can assert his voice and vision in the midst of a chaos that can consume. His legacy at ND will depend on his ability to quickly adapt to his early mistakes.

You were right about one thing though, he has to keep the recruiting strong.

I was only high on MF bc I had to be. I was all in. I wanted Fickell, but it didn’t matter. We hired MF so I became a fan and wanted what was best for him which was to be very successful. I figured Swarbrick and ND nation must know something I don’t know. Was I secretly skeptical given the fact he’d never proven a damn thing? Yep. But I put the blinders on and let him have the benefit of the doubt. Could he rewrite the story? Sure. But the odds are stacked against him and it’s not even close. He’s a laughing stock in every college football conversation around the country. He’s going to have to do twice as well to shut those people up and get the fan base back on his side. Not an easy task.

 

[WildMan1]

"I'm more disappointed in myself than I am the team"


Dude... I say this with all the respect I can muster.

Get help.

I’m being facetious man, relax.. hence the lol

 

[stlnd01]

I was only high on MF bc I had to be. I was all in. I wanted Fickell, but it didn’t matter. We hired MF so I became a fan and wanted what was best for him which was to be very successful. I figured Swarbrick and ND nation must know something I don’t know. Was I secretly skeptical given the fact he’d never proven a damn thing? Yep. But I put the blinders on and let him have the benefit of the doubt. Could he rewrite the story? Sure. But the odds are stacked against him and it’s not even close. He’s a laughing stock in every college football conversation around the country. He’s going to have to do twice as well to shut those people up and get the fan base back on his side. Not an easy task.

The man has coached three games. The first one was chaos. The second, on the road against the No. 2 team in the country, his team acquitted itself quite well, really. Yes, Marshall was a fuck and losing Buchner is brutal. But maybe we could give Freeman a little time?

 

[Sea Turtle]

We all should be thanking Bian Kelly for what he was able to do with this program.

 

[ulukinatme]

We all should be thanking Bian Kelly for what he was able to do with this program.

I thought this way at one time, but it's clear he knew another 2016 season was looming after we had to start so many freshmen last year. Losing Kyren, Austin, and Coan with question marks behind those guys wasn't going to make this season any easier. Thankful for some good seasons, even if we didn't have much to show for it bowl wise. That said, he tucked tail and ran for a big payday knowing his stock was about to drop.

 

[IRISHDODGER]

We all should be thanking Bian Kelly for what he was able to do with this program.

I have no problem thanking him and giving him his just due.

I also do not miss him & regardless of how bad this season goes still think it was time for a change.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

I was only high on MF bc I had to be. I was all in. I wanted Fickell, but it didn’t matter. We hired MF so I became a fan and wanted what was best for him which was to be very successful. I figured Swarbrick and ND nation must know something I don’t know. Was I secretly skeptical given the fact he’d never proven a damn thing? Yep. But I put the blinders on and let him have the benefit of the doubt. Could he rewrite the story? Sure. But the odds are stacked against him and it’s not even close. He’s a laughing stock in every college football conversation around the country. He’s going to have to do twice as well to shut those people up and get the fan base back on his side. Not an easy task.

We all should be thanking Bian Kelly for what he was able to do with this program.

NDFB Fans Stop Projecting Your Own Insecurities Onto the Team Challenge (impossible)

 

[IrishTusker]

Everyone is being mean to us?! Oh no lol

 

[Jimmy3Putt]

Freeman has the chops and he deserves at least three full years to prove it.
Let's face it, most of the top head coaches aren't great at X and O's. They're great recruiters and at hiring (and quickly firing) top staffs.

Freeman is the perfect CEO for the new branded Irish. Young, energetic, good looking, minority
(yeah I said it). He can take this program to heights it hasn't seen in a very long time. He just needs to surround himself with talent on and off the field.

 

[thekid33]

We all should be thanking Bian Kelly for what he was able to do with this program.

First time poster, long time lurker.

I appreciate BK for getting program back to a level of competitiveness below the rarified tier of Bama, Ohio St., etc.

That being said, I don't think he was the only person that was capable of doing that.

I also don't think he was ever going to get them a title. The timing of him leaving sucked more than him leaving.

I still think MF can be the guy to take them to the next level. As others have pointed out, St. Brian himself started 1-3. Dabo was less than impressive in his first two seasons at Clemson.

The keys are going to be
1) Can he manage to end up with a somewhat reasonable # of wins this season? At this point, I think that's 7 or 8 wins. Certainly no worse than. 500
2) Is MF is empowered by the administration to make the staff changes that might be necessary after this season?
3) If so, is he personally willing to make those changes?
4) Who does he bring in?

 

[TNUtoNotreDame]

We all should be thanking Bian Kelly for what he was able to do with this program.

Thank you BK for going away. Whew, that was tough, I feel better though. Cleansing of my soul.

 

[T Town Tommy]

At least Freeman has communicated what he wants his offensive identity to be at ND. And that’s more than BK did in his tenure as coach. Maybe Rees isn’t the OC that can make that vision a reality, and if not, then hopefully Freeman has the ability to move on from him. But Freeman has potential to be a really solid HC and deserves a chance to implement his vision. Recruiting is going well and that goes a long way in being able to execute that vision. Give the man some time… I would rather have hope than have 11-2 seasons knowing that the coach will never elevate the program to the top tiers of CFB. And that’s what the Irish had with Kelly.

 

[du Lac]

At least Freeman has communicated what he wants his offensive identity to be at ND. And that’s more than BK did in his tenure as coach. Maybe Rees isn’t the OC that can make that vision a reality, and if not, then hopefully Freeman has the ability to move on from him. But Freeman has potential to be a really solid HC and deserves a chance to implement his vision. Recruiting is going well and that goes a long way in being able to execute that vision. Give the man some time… I would rather have hope than have 11-2 seasons knowing that the coach will never elevate the program to the top tiers of CFB. And that’s what the Irish had with Kelly.

Let’s revisit that “vision” after Cal game.

 

[T Town Tommy]

Let’s revisit that “vision” after Cal game.

Not saying it’s easy. Just ask $100 mil Jimbo. But Freeman is backed against the wall early in his tenure and, if you’re an Irish fan, maybe supporting him is the best thing you can do right now. Calling for his job three games in isn’t what he needs. I assure you Freeman wants to win more than anyone. Adversity builds character…. and I have confidence that Freeman will right the ship if given the time and support.

 

[du Lac]

Yeah and Jimbo with a national championship ring and $30M payroll for players just lost to App State. What's your point? All kinds of people of all different backgrounds might work out or might fail. There are maybe a half dozen "sure things," total.

Jimbo is an Orgeron.

Real coaches build multiple programs and win year after year when the cards are stacked against them. They don’t win one or two years. They win wherever they go. Right now, I don’t know who that is, but I could take a few guesses. There are a few dogs out there over achieving year after year. BK was the ideal hire at the time. They usually work out.

 

[T Town Tommy]

😂😂 man, Jimbo is a loser. I loved seeing that loss more than the Michigan loss and that’s saying a lot. Sadly it was harder to enjoy considering our loss 😒

Everyone but A&M and LSU knew Jimbo was a wash. Aggies got more money than sense. Wouldn’t shock me if they paid him $50 mil to leave and make a run at Stinky Pinky Urban.

Don’t want to derail this thread though. You guys get behind Freeman. He needs your support right now.

 

[T-Boone]

I would rather have hope than have 11-2 seasons knowing that the coach will never elevate the program to the top tiers of CFB. And that’s what the Irish had with Kelly.

Kelly was just a great OC hire in 2020 away from going to the next level.

 

[Sea Turtle]

At least Freeman has communicated what he wants his offensive identity to be at ND. And that’s more than BK did in his tenure as coach. Maybe Rees isn’t the OC that can make that vision a reality, and if not, then hopefully Freeman has the ability to move on from him. But Freeman has potential to be a really solid HC and deserves a chance to implement his vision. Recruiting is going well and that goes a long way in being able to execute that vision. Give the man some time… I would rather have hope than have 11-2 seasons knowing that the coach will never elevate the program to the top tiers of CFB. And that’s what the Irish had with Kelly.

Kelly did what he could with what a school thar is antagonistic with its football program.
He had to deal with his qb getting kicked out, not for cheating on a test mind you, but for giving his buddy a heads up on what was on the test.
He had to deal with 5 players being hung out to dry for a season and then getting kicked out because some girl helped them write a paper. Keep in mind that they used software that is normally reserved for homicide and corporate embezzlement cases by three different investigative agencies to determine what happened.
That doesn't even touch on everything that he dealt with regarding admissions, workloads, reslife, etc.

I believe he'll do much better at LSU.

 

[ulukinatme]

Kelly was just a great OC hire in 2020 away from going to the next level.

Whoever was hired at OC was still going to be hamstrung by the '19 and '20 poor recruiting classes. Mayer is the only skill position from those classes that has really been utilized and not all the linemen panned out. Tyree and Pyne are the only others still on the team, and Tyree has been little more than a receiving threat due to the struggles with the OL. It's why there's a ton of young Sophomores on offense out there, there's really nobody else because BK botched those classes.

 

[KRM]

It's way too early to make a call on Freeman. We escaped a number of games last year that we probably shouldn't have. The 2022 troubles started with the 2019 and 2020 recruiting classes.

Maybe. I think we should have gone big. Freeman seems overwhelmed. We need someone who has been there before. Not on the job training.

 

[stlnd01]

Yeah it’s a fun game to play “what if we’d hired Joe Moorhead instead,” as he was the best OC available that winter. But at some level our on-field talent is what it is. And he’s a head coach now anyway right?

 

[KRM]

you wait for another coach (fickell?) then the 2022 recruiting class falls apart and you have no time to recover so then basically its akin to penalizing your own program with a reduction in scholarship players. No AD with a brain is ever gonna do this.

They could have pushed before the bowls started. Well in time to keep the recruiting class together. Instead, we are stuck with Freeman. Another set back for Notre Dame football.

 

[KRM]

It's way too early to make a call on Freeman. We escaped a number of games last year that we probably shouldn't have. The 2022 troubles started with the 2019 and 2020 recruiting classes.

Agreed. But we got through those games by good coaching. I don't think we will do that this year as we have already seen. This guy is 0-3. I really don't think we will have a winning record after starting out as a top 5 pick.

 

[irishff1014]

Whoever was hired at OC was still going to be hamstrung by the '19 and '20 poor recruiting classes. Mayer is the only skill position from those classes that has really been utilized and not all the linemen panned out. Tyree and Pyne are the only others still on the team, and Tyree has been little more than a receiving threat due to the struggles with the OL. It's why there's a ton of young Sophomores on offense out there, there's really nobody else because BK botched those classes.

A different OC might have been able to help the QB's Rees wasn't able to do in those years. Kelly supervised the recruiting so yes it is his fault. It is also Rees fault he couldn't recruit good QB's. It was also Alexander's fault for not recruiting and putting out good WR.

Here are the QB's Rees recruited.

Avery Davis 4* 8th QB of 2017 class
Phil Jurkovec 4* 4th best of 2018 class
Brendon Clake 3* 21st best of 2019 class
Drew Pyne 4* 8th best of 2020 class
Tyler Buchner 4* 11th best of 2021 class
Jack Coan Transfer
Steve Angeli 4* 21st best of 2022 class

Yes the QB recruiting could be better and more consistent but it could be worse as well. I have been around long enough to know that QB's work out less than they do. But there is enough there that you should be able to do something with it. This whole list is on Rees and no one else.

The position ranking is from 247.

 

[IrishTusker]

Even if Freeman flames out in 2-3 years, the odds, I think, are that Fickell is still around. Maybe he leaves for UM or OSU, but are they going to have vacancies in that period? I sort of doubt it.

 

[stlnd01]

A different OC might have been able to help the QB's Rees wasn't able to do in those years. Kelly supervised the recruiting so yes it is his fault. It is also Rees fault he couldn't recruit good QB's. It was also Alexander's fault for not recruiting and putting out good WR.

Here are the QB's Rees recruited.

Avery Davis 4* 8th QB of 2017 class
Phil Jurkovec 4* 4th best of 2018 class
Brendon Clake 3* 21st best of 2019 class
Drew Pyne 4* 8th best of 2020 class
Tyler Buchner 4* 11th best of 2021 class
Jack Coan Transfer
Steve Angeli 4* 21st best of 2022 class

Yes the QB recruiting could be better and more consistent but it could be worse as well. I have been around long enough to know that QB's work out less than they do. But there is enough there that you should be able to do something with it. This whole list is on Rees and no one else.

The position ranking is from 247.

Small thing but Pyne was the #8 rated "Pro Style" QB in his class, per 247. There were also 10 "dual-threat" QBs (including Bryce Young and Anthony Richardson) rated higher than him overall. So really he was 18th.
The next year they did away with such distinctions and Buchner was the 11th QB of any kind. He also was substantially higher in the overall player rankings (71st vs. Pyne's 225th).
Just so we're clear on the talent dropoff here.

Either way, maybe a different OC hire in 2020 lands us someone better than Angeli, time will tell. But to me the biggest hole was losing Phil and then settling for Clark and Pyne back-to-back. Our QB room looks quite different right now if even one of those three years we land someone who pans out as a credible starter for Notre Dame. Pyne here is our last shot.