Another Shooting

Rogue219

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Guns haven’t changed, people and society have.
Is it possible that part of the way people and society have changed is a glorification of guns that’s led to desensitization of violence? Some of these weapons didn’t exist in the 60s and 70s right?

I honestly don’t think anyone could have foreseen what we’re seeing today had they lived 250 years ago.

It stopped being about freedom and rights along time ago. Greed and selfishness have controlled the messaging we’ve been hearing for decades. The apathy and inaction has been paid for and then some in our government and how we behave as citizens.
 

goldandblue

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We have one for the district. We’re a small district. Our SRO is a rotated officer on a schedule in conjunction with the local police department. My building lies six miles from our high school and our elementary building is 4-5 miles away. These are the things I worry about.

Some districts have one per school. Some have a few. Some districts have one per building. Heck, some districts have their own police force. Ultimately it comes down to the budget and what you can afford. I see our SRO daily, and they do a great job…but I also know what the response time would be in the event of an armed assailant.

I really thought all schools by this point had armed resource officers. I would say our district is small as well. But I’m not sure in comparison to yours. We have I would say around 3,500 students in the entire district and that is a high guess.

I agree with you on the response time, if you don’t have one on-site then do you really have one at all? In all seriousness, even if magazines were limited to 10 rounds, you could shoot 50 rounds off even with changing mags before anyone arrived. I’m curious, what area of the country are you in?
 

MacIrish75

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I really thought all schools by this point had armed resource officers. I would say our district is small as well. But I’m not sure in comparison to yours. We have I would say around 3,500 students in the entire district and that is a high guess.

I agree with you on the response time, if you don’t have one on-site then do you really have one at all? In all seriousness, even if magazines were limited to 10 rounds, you could shoot 50 rounds off even with changing mags before anyone arrived. I’m curious, what area of the country are you in?
Rural north central Indiana. District size is approximately 1,700 K-12.
 

ACamp1900

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I really thought all schools by this point had armed resource officers. I would say our district is small as well. But I’m not sure in comparison to yours. We have I would say around 3,500 students in the entire district and that is a high guess.

I agree with you on the response time, if you don’t have one on-site then do you really have one at all? In all seriousness, even if magazines were limited to 10 rounds, you could shoot 50 rounds off even with changing mags before anyone arrived. I’m curious, what area of the country are you in?
In Cali the thought alone was unheard of and I doubt they have them now,… at least where we were. Every school here in EP has one,… in fact I was talking with the one at my daughter’s school this morning (she’s an absolute smoke show i don’t mind adding) during my daughter’s award assembly
 

goldandblue

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Is it possible that part of the way people and society have changed is a glorification of guns that’s led to desensitization of violence? Some of these weapons didn’t exist in the 60s and 70s right?

I honestly don’t think anyone could have foreseen what we’re seeing today had they lived 250 years ago.

It stopped being about freedom and rights along time ago. Greed and selfishness have controlled the messaging we’ve been hearing for decades. The apathy and inaction has been paid for and then some in our government and how we behave as citizens.
Those are some good points. I don’t really feel that the glorification of guns is the reason for desensitization. However it may very well may play a small part. I think it’s our culture in general. Video games, movies, tv, lack of God, broken homes, drugs, lack of communication with each other in person. Lack of mental health treatment as well. I think mental health in our country has declined for all the above reasons.
 

ACamp1900

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Those are some good points. I don’t really feel that the glorification of guns is the reason for desensitization. However it may very well may play a small part. I think it’s our culture in general. Video games, movies, tv, lack of God, broken homes, drugs, lack of communication with each other in person. Lack of mental health treatment as well. I think mental health in our country has declined for all the above reasons.
One that no one touches on I think may be relevant,… the everyone gets a trophy culture. No one has to work for and win recognition so now a whole generation plus has a much harder time dealing with failures and they explode. More of a general cultural observation but somewhat plays in
 

Rockin’Irish

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There have been homemade explosives used by people looking to harm others in this country……off the top of my head, Ted K and Eric Rudolph. More recently, the Boston Marathon. These were all perpetrated by people with by some sort of twisted agenda. Although the killings in many of our urban cities are also a serious problem…..it’s a different type of problem, at least compared to mass shootings in schools, etc. which are usually related to a twisted mind doing the killing. Both situations are serious problems but the root cause is not the same, in my opinion. The shootings in the cities are nothing new (think of the mobster heydays quite a long time ago) but it has surely gotten worse with seemingly less regard for the repercussions. However, the mass shootings are a relatively new problem. It would be interesting to hear from my fellow IE members on why you think this problem has ramped up so much over the past three decades.
 

Blazers46

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Those are some good points. I don’t really feel that the glorification of guns is the reason for desensitization. However it may very well may play a small part. I think it’s our culture in general. Video games, movies, tv, lack of God, broken homes, drugs, lack of communication with each other in person. Lack of mental health treatment as well. I think mental health in our country has declined for all the above reasons.
Our society lacks strong men and discipline. Absent fathers with politicians and media racing to make everyone a victim of something to get them fired up for elections and stupid bills so they pass around money and ratings. Bunch of beta males walking around trying to get attention by killing people because that’s what our society produces. Society is broke because the people are broke.
 

ulukinatme

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There are almost 400 million guns in the US, more than the entire population. Even if you tried to confiscate them all you couldn't. It gets worse, because these days you can actually 3D print a gun if you really want to. Criminals will always have access to guns, bottom line. We need multiple deterrents, including more resources for mental health. Every school should have at least one security guard active during school hours (Job creation!). I know a lot of schools have all doors locked these days, you have to get buzzed in up front. I'm curious how this guy got into an elementary. It's all wrong, feel for those families. I can't imagine being without one of my kids.
 

GoldenAura

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Can someone tell me even just one good reason why civilians should have access to assault rifles? I'm genuinely curious to hear.
 

Rockin’Irish

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We’ve got to find a way to deal with the people that would commit these kind of crimes…….mental health, stronger deterrents, etal……it’s a way, way more complicated issue than just enhancing the background checks that are already used. Honestly, I don’t think it’s a problem that will ever be solved.
 

TorontoGold

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Is it possible that part of the way people and society have changed is a glorification of guns that’s led to desensitization of violence? Some of these weapons didn’t exist in the 60s and 70s right?

I honestly don’t think anyone could have foreseen what we’re seeing today had they lived 250 years ago.

It stopped being about freedom and rights along time ago. Greed and selfishness have controlled the messaging we’ve been hearing for decades. The apathy and inaction has been paid for and then some in our government and how we behave as citizens.
Society is literally at it's all time high right now. Despite insane rhetoric, we're way more civilized now than ever. Respect for each other is higher than it's ever been. Doom and gloom of society is being driven (ironically) by those that don't trust MSM..which is exactly what MSM wants lol.
 

irishff1014

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This is just another event that is so depressing. I grew up in a small town in Indiana and our schools had there fair share of kids who struggled with emotional and/or mental issues. We had bullying, parents that were abusive, drugs/alcohol, access to guns, etc. Geez, during 6th grade camp, the fire department had to come get one of the kids out of a tree because he was barking like a dog and wouldn’t come down. Later on in high school, the same kid was in my driver’s education car…….a bit scary on I-65. My junior and senior year we had an unusual number of suicides as well as student deaths for other reasons. Some of the suicides were using firearms (shotguns, mostly).
People had problems, just like they do now. What we didn’t have was the internet, we didn’t have cellphones and we didn’t even have computers (I graduated HS in 1980). You were influenced by your peers, your family and to some extent what you saw on TV or heard in music. Remember when heavy metal was the culprit (talking to you Tipper)? Now folks that have emotional and/or mental issues have the same influences but also adding in social media, everything on the internet and constant communication (good and bad). It’s a lot for people to process cleanly, especially those who cannot process clearly. The internet, etc. are great tools but they are also having a negative influence on many of our people, including growing minds. It’s a tough problem to crack and I’m afraid it’s just going to get worse.


Same way with PlayStation and Xbox games. They play for hours among hours and it basic brain washes then to thinking it’s normal. According to some pieces I have read.

Also line you said cell phones are a major problem. And parents and their kids not having a close relationship are causing a disconnect. It’s awful. Technology Is good but it is equally as bad.
 

Blazers46

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Can someone tell me even just one good reason why civilians should have access to assault rifles? I'm genuinely curious to hear.
Because when someone breaks into my house and they have a handgun I’m not interested in a fair fight. My goal would be to shoot more bullets at a faster rate than the criminal trying to victimize my family and I. And if the criminal is illegally trying to victimize me why would they be interested in an auto or semi auto or “assualt” weapons ban? Pretty sure if someone tries something with my family I don’t want be hamstrung by bureaucracy or bureaucrats getting in my way and the reason I can’t fully protect my family. Pretty sure this elementary was a gun free zone… pretty sure his guns weren’t allowed inside the building… laws won’t work. Stricter Background checks… sure I’m all for it.
 

irishff1014

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Pretty sure we're all anti murder, especially when children are the victims. But what would Steve Kerr (and all the ani gun people) say if the weapon was a homemade explosive? What's the narrative? What does that battle cry sound like?

Some of the reports I have read is that he had a hand gun. And I believe that almost every state you must be 21 have one. The questions are where and how did he get it? If there’s any wrong doing they should be punished as if they were there.
 

Bishop2b5

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Can someone tell me even just one good reason why civilians should have access to assault rifles? I'm genuinely curious to hear.
What, exactly, do you consider an assault rifle? I'll be glad to answer your question and discuss it with you, but I'd first like to know what you consider an assault rifle and why you think citizens shouldn't have one so that we can both be certain what we're talking about.
 

Bishop2b5

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All of the handwringing and cries of "We have to DO SOMETHING!" a la Steve Kerr, are nothing more than empty, emotion-driven drivel. "Do something" doesn't solve anything. What's important is to do something effective that actually works and solves the problem. If you're an ER physician and you have a patient bleeding out or having a stroke or MI, his family standing outside the exam room screaming, "DO SOMETHING" helps not one whit. There are 1000 things you can do at that point, but 999 of them won't help or may even make things worse. Doing the RIGHT thing that will work is all that counts.

Feel good bandaids on the problem that have the right optics (from both sides) are a lot of why this crap keeps happening. Both sides are more interested in appeasing their constituents and doing something symbolic and useless than doing something effective. The Left cries for more gun control while completely ignoring that criminals don't obey the current gun control laws and those laws are completely useless at curbing gun related crime. The Right won't dare give an inch on any gun control because they fear the Left will take another inch and another and then a mile.

So, instead of overly emotional cries of just "Do something," which is about as helpful as "Thoughts and prayers," how about figuring out how to do something effective.
 

MacIrish75

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Scary. If I were you, I’d have a conceal carry. Is that an option? Or at least a safe in your office?
It isn’t. There are laws regarding possession of a firearm on school grounds. A few years ago after a school shooting, the state of Indiana was looking at legislation allowing certain staff members to carry on school grounds with some sort of permit and/or additional training. Personally, I am for it, and would absolutely do so. I ascribe to the “Good guy w/ gun” philosophy in terms of these events.

One of the main points in the argument against that plan though, and something I do agree with to an extent, is how a person will ultimately react in an active shooter situation—particularly an educator who, even with some training, isn’t necessarily ready to deal with an event of that magnitude. Heck, look at the SRO at Stoneman Douglas and how he reacted, even as a trained LEO. I don’t think that’s reason enough to not keep some sort of a firearm in the building, though, if an SRO can’t be committed to each building.
 

MacIrish75

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All of the handwringing and cries of "We have to DO SOMETHING!" a la Steve Kerr, are nothing more than empty, emotion-driven drivel. "Do something" doesn't solve anything. What's important is to do something effective that actually works and solves the problem. If you're an ER physician and you have a patient bleeding out or having a stroke or MI, his family standing outside the exam room screaming, "DO SOMETHING" helps not one whit. There are 1000 things you can do at that point, but 999 of them won't help or may even make things worse. Doing the RIGHT thing that will work is all that counts.

Feel good bandaids on the problem that have the right optics (from both sides) are a lot of why this crap keeps happening. Both sides are more interested in appeasing their constituents and doing something symbolic and useless than doing something effective. The Left cries for more gun control while completely ignoring that criminals don't obey the current gun control laws and those laws are completely useless at curbing gun related crime. The Right won't dare give an inch on any gun control because they fear the Left will take another inch and another and then a mile.

So, instead of overly emotional cries of just "Do something," which is about as helpful as "Thoughts and prayers," how about figuring out how to do something effective.
Bingo. There is a solution to be had, but it will involve elected officials prioritizing our kids and teachers over a “win” for the party.
 

drayer54

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. I heard Steve Kerr talking about background checks, not anti gun. Did we hear different things?

There are countries all over the world where this never happens. What’s the common
Does a background check prevent this shooting? Did he not already pass one? The UBC provision is sold as a “reasonable” go get a background check, which already happens in the vast majority of sales.

The problem is that it puts private transfers and even sharing a gun in a legal situation. Every UBC bill I’ve ever read has terrible provisions that I guarantee 90% would never support.

Common denominator? Culture. Lack of punishment. Intentionally weakened law enforcement. This country made a decision that we have too many in prison and decided to lower the number and as a result too many people who belong in jail are out wreaking havoc.
 

Irish#1

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Homemade explosive would actually be something new. Not to be flippant, but the killings in the streets of Memphis, St. Louis, Little Rock, Chicago, etc. aren’t happening due to homemade explosives.

My battle cry is we’re not a serious enough nation to solve our problems. We let power and money divide us so the discussions we need to have go in the direction this one is going right now. I heard Steve Kerr talking about background checks, not anti gun. Did we hear different things?

There are countries all over the world where this never happens. What’s the common denominator?
I suspect that if we totally outlawed guns these whacko's would find another way to do what they want whether it be a knife, bomb, chemical, fire, etc.

I feel so bad for these families. They were just starting their lives.
 

DCDomer

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Our society is completely numb to the loss of human life on a massive scale. Nothing about our economy, healthcare system, or government shows compassion or basic human decency, how can we be shocked that so many of this country's citizens have no connection to the humanity of their neighbor?
 

DomerInHappyValley

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Heavy .com has a video they say is this latest psycho just walking through the doors of this school.
How in the actual fuck was he able to do that?

This little fucker had police chasing him walks through the doors of an elementary school and he was able to do this.

Look I'm a big proponent of the 2nd Amendment.
But I am truly sick and tired of hearing about this shit.

Couple of AR's in my house one is under my bed my kids know where it is and know how to operate it. Maybe I was lucky that my kids never snapped. Maybe my kids never snapped because they knew I was always in their corner.
I'm not the only gun owner in America today who's kids aren't going to snap.

During the lockdowns, as totalitarian as I thought they were, this shit wasn't happening. Maybe that's the answer. Kids can't get shot up if they aren't all grouped together in a soft location. Sports and activities are a wonderful way to make life long friends anyways.
This shit didn't happen when every neighborhood had it's own elementary school. When every school district had multiple middle schools and high schools.

Now we pressure our kids hard. Gotta get the best grades get into the best University.
Yeah pressure can create diamonds, but enough pressure also crushes diamonds and Mom and Dad are both so busy working that when the kid tries to speak out they can't hear them.

Maybe I'm just rambling. But I do know Monday night I literally had a converation with my youngest because of the pressure she's been putting on herself.
Poor kid is getting the 1st D of her life in the 4th marking period of her sophmore year after getting her license and her first boyfriend.
Poor girl was freaking herself out so bad she actually started feeling depressed.
 

Rogue219

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Our society is completely numb to the loss of human life on a massive scale. Nothing about our economy, healthcare system, or government shows compassion or basic human decency, how can we be shocked that so many of this country's citizens have no connection to the humanity of their neighbor?
I agree with this 100%. We have to live like this; with the apathy, anxiety, fear, anger, cynicism. No wonder we're all screwed up. For too long we have been told to look out for number one. It's a nation rooted in selfishness and greed. The pandemic has only made things worse, including a reset on gun violence.

It's the only nation on Earth where this continually happens day to day in the streets, at church, at school, in supermarkets, etc. We have too many people that won't admit the factors WHY.

We have the means and the ability to do something. We don't have the empathy or the solidarity. The cowards who govern us deliberately confuse and divide us so we feel helpless and hopeless. What a drag, thoughts and prayers, we go on with our day.
 

BleedBlueGold

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More details will inevitably come out about this situation and it'd be wise for us all to consider the facts as they come. Typically, when these situations occur, emotions are running high and the same comments get regurgitated from their respective sides. Often times what we find is that neither side has all the correct answers.

Can we stop pointing fingers, look within, and think about ideas that might actually work?

For example, those who decry the 2A rarely stop to consider the unlikeliness of successfully stripping it from our Constitution or the length of time and resources required with such a feat. I've long opined that instead of wasting more time on that debate, which leads to only more school shootings happening (because of the all or nothing approach we've taken), why can't we guard our schools like we guard our prisons/banks? I genuinely hate the idea of what that might look like. But 1) it seems far more likely to get bipartisan agreement on required funding for said plan, 2) it can be instated immediately, 3) it strips no one of their Constitutional rights, and 4) as crazy as it sounds to have kids living in such conditions....at least they'd be living. My wife's school is 100% locked down during the day. I've always said that's a good first step, as it's basically impossible for anyone to get into their double sets of doors. But I'd actually love for armed security guards, police dogs, and metal detectors be at the entrances as well. If you have legit business at a school, there's no reason why you couldn't get in. But there is also no chance some random psycho with a gun is getting passed all of those security features.

Conversely, those on the Right who push back against any and all forms of updated gun reform policy need to really stop and think about why they're so adamantly against ANY changes. It's correct that new reforms may not have stopped this particular incident. It's correct that the Left will never stop trying to come after your guns. It's correct that "doing something may not always be better than doing nothing." But at what point is enough truly enough? Polling suggests that gun owners are in favor of some reforms, so why is nothing being done? Why aren't GOP politicians being held accountable for getting favorable guns laws passed? Laws, mind you, that still protect our 2A rights, but are common sense changes that may help to stop even one more shooting.

For the chatter towards mental health, fatherless society, desensitized children, etc....I say we address those too. Too many people are planting their flags on their respective sides, pointing fingers, and arguing passed each other. This doesn't have to be either/or situations. Maybe, just maybe, IT'S ALL OF IT.
 

BleedBlueGold

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Couple of AR's in my house one is under my bed my kids know where it is and know how to operate it. Maybe I was lucky that my kids never snapped. Maybe my kids never snapped because they knew I was always in their corner.
I'm not the only gun owner in America today who's kids aren't going to snap.

Gun owner and 2A supporter here, and I find this wildly irresponsible.

Respectively, I'm not making a suggestion towards yours or your kids' welfare or mental health or that they'll one day be a school shooter.

What I'd like to say is that this is a common theme with school shooters: Parents legally bought and purchased gun(s). Child knows how to use said gun(s). Gun(s) aren't properly locked away. Parents assume "my kid would never do something crazy." One day kid grabs the legally purchased gun(s) from closet, etc. and walks into unprotected school. Only after do we learn about the red flags, the depression/anxiety, bullying, etc. The Left screams, "BAN ALL GUNS!" while the Right defends the 2A citing stricter gun laws wouldn't prevent this from happening because they were legally purchased, and kid had mental health issues, etc etc. Round and round we go. Until the next shooting happens.

Please, as a general rule of thumb, lock up your firearms and don't just assume your kids won't be the ones who snap. I genuinely mean that with all due respect.
 
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DomerInHappyValley

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Gun owner and 2A supporter here, and I find this wildly irresponsible.

Respectively, I'm not making a suggestion towards yours or your kids' welfare or mental health or that they'll one day be a school shooter.

What I'd like to say is that this is a common theme with school shooters: Parents legally bought and purchased gun(s). Child knows how to use said gun(s). Gun(s) aren't properly locked away. Parents assume "my kid would never do something crazy." One day kid grabs the legally purchased gun(s) from closet, etc. and walks into unprotected school. Only after do we learn about the red flags, the depression/anxiety, bullying, etc. The Left screams, "BAN ALL GUNS!" while the Right defends the 2A citing stricter gun laws wouldn't prevent this from happening because they were legally purchased, and kid had mental health issues, etc etc. Round and round we go. Until the next shooting happens.

Please, as a general rule of thumb, lock up your firearms and don't just assume your kids won't be the ones who snap. I genuinely mean that with all due respect.
Care to explain where I said it's unsecured?
Just because it's not in a safe secured with an eye scan and 2FA doesn't mean its unsecured.

Also doesn't mean that I don't realize that a masterlock with a pattern lock and a hard case isn't the most secure.

I'll accept your apologies for your assumptions with the same grace and understanding as you offer them.
 

Rogue219

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There are reports that an SRO and police engaged the shooter before he entered the school.

MSD HS in Florida had an SRO on site. The dude took cover.

Educators are underpaid, education is underfunded, we put these people on the front lines of an already difficult job and some people offer the solution of arming them or putting armed guards outside of school buildings. It's a recipe for societal collapse in the end. The profession will soon give up and just go find something else to do. Not like there aren't job openings right now.

Sadly, I think there are more people than we care to admit who would be happy with the outcome.
 

RDU Irish

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Ask any high school kid an they can tell you who the would be shooters are in their school. This is a mental health crisis. Expand counselor services (our son had about 1 total hour of interaction with his counselor in four years - impossible to schedule time even for basic curriculum counselling that has to happen). Identify the problems and get them help - which requires someone actually knowing and caring about individual students. If they are sick twists, some type of juvenile detention/ controlled environment after psych evals and/or parental/faculty recommendation. Rich people send their kids to $60k/year mental hospitals or military schools, poor people buy time until the psycho turns 18 and they can cut them loose (with many deciding to live in fear of that creature in the basement forever). Once 18 - we only institutionalize crazies if they break laws bad enough to send them to prison.

Identify and deal with the nut jobs instead of letting them run rampant through the streets waiting for someone to get hurt. If we can send $40B to Ukraine we can open some 24/7 "schools" to more directly weed out these sickos and determine which need permanent help. The threat of being sent away probably straightens out quite a few too. This also targets suicide and drug abuse which add up to 150,000 deaths last year versus some 25,000 homicides. Covid lock downs have FUBARed a generation shoving them further in to their social media obsessions - taking away guns and applying prayers isn't going to turn the tide IMO.
 
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