Russia Invades Ukraine

PerthDomer

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Poland was fighting for their lives. Germany had plans to basically send all the Slavs to Siberia. Ditto on the Russians.

Russia has no intention of liquidating what they perceive as their own people.
Well except the ruling class, pro westerners, political dissidents, gays and etc.

Also, I have family abroad. I don't think I should be able to rule their countries. Ukranians and Russians often intermarry. They have different history. It'd be like Bojo declaring Ireland historically British and invading. It'd make 0 sense.
 

NorthDakota

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Well except the ruling class, pro westerners, political dissidents, gays and etc.

Also, I have family abroad. I don't think I should be able to rule their countries. Ukranians and Russians often intermarry. They have different history. It'd be like Bojo declaring Ireland historically British and invading. It'd make 0 sense.
Ahh yes...I'm sure Ukraine is super friendly to the gay community.

We all have family abroad in some sense. Ukrainians and Russians frequently marrying only adds to Russia's cause.

Ireland and England are separate islands. Historically they spoke unique languages. Different root languages even. English is a Germania language. Irish is not.

Ukraine and Russia's borders are a line on a map and they speak (from what my friends tell me) the same language for all intents and purposes. Its easy to justify invading a neighboring country when you perceive that country to be the same as you. Idk what Russia is doing or what their justifications are (likely stupid) but the idea that "our people marry theirs" sounds like a stupid defense.
 

PerthDomer

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Currently the UK and Ireland speak the same language. The Irish language has the same descendant as the Scottish one. And the UK and Ireland share a border. Ireland was even part of the UK in relatively recent history.

You could say the same for Canada and the US. A lot of intermarriage. Definitely different countries.

Also I'm curious. Estonia is 25% Russian speaking and was part of the USSR. Does Putin have a claim there? Did they do violence to Russia when they joined NATO?
 

ShamrockOnHelmet

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At the rate this war is going at what point do the US/EU have to sit down with China to figure out how to divide up Russia into East Russia and West Russia (East Ukraine)?
Why italics? I think it’s actually something to think about. Russia is clearly a failed state, they only have raw materials and aggressiveness to offer the world. It might be time to break it up into 10-12 independent republics following its now inevitable economic collapse.
 

irishog77

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Why italics? I think it’s actually something to think about. Russia is clearly a failed state, they only have raw materials and aggressiveness to offer the world. It might be time to break it up into 10-12 independent republics following its now inevitable economic collapse.
The Balkanization of russia
 

PerthDomer

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What do you mean here?
Tepid support for invasion. Going into a weaker country and getting chewed up by people who are defending their land while your rival great powers arm the opposition. If Russia were willing to lose a hundred thousand men and put hundreds of thousands in permanently to administer the state sure. But they don't want to and can't afford it.

Think about this. Iraq/afganistan became magnets for everyone in the Muslim world who hated the US to take potshots at us. They were poorly armed/funded. There are a he'll of a lot of people who hate Russia and they're going to be armed and trained with the best weapons the US and Europe have to offer.
 

BrownerandFry

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recitation of facts, actual events:

February 4 Olympics opens

February 20 Olympics closes



2/22 US announces first level of sanctions on Russia. Members of the EU and the members of NATO,each at their own pace, join and keep up the steady drip of FISCAL and ECONOMIC WAR on Putin’s bloody, destructive regime. Mirabile dictu, Switzerland defies a long standing tradition and freezes Russian assets

2/24 Russia begins invasion

2/26 Nato force for defense assembled

2/28 BP leaves Russia





Central Bank of Russia blocked from accessing 400 billion in ready reserves (
Rooskie petty cash for emergency



“This is a kind of financial nuclear bomb that is falling on Russia”

.Sergei aleksakashenko



Rouble sinks to all time low against dollar

Moscow interest rates hit 20%

March 2, ten days ago. Oligarchs Lebedev, Tinkov Friedman,A bramovich, some directly, some speaking between the lines, some speaking in "code"question or object to the war of choice in Ukraine

Exxon leaves Russia







Putin promises Rouble equivalent of $65000 to the survivors of each dead Russian soldier

It is unclear if this applies to Argentinian and Syrian mercenaries or just native Rooskies.

Sukhovetsky joins
Gerasimov and Kolesnikov as DEAD German generals, all Major Generals, apparently an “unlucky” designation. 3 dead generals in less than two weeks.

Royal Dutch Shell leaves Russia

Nike, Adidas, Puma all discontinue operations in Russia
March 8, Fitch downgrades Russian debt for second time in a week, declares:
""a sovereign default is imminent."

March 9, Russian stock market remains shuttered for 8th straight day. Gloomy outook

March 12, US ships MANPADS for immediately delivery to Ukrainian freedom fighters


VLAD EXPECTED:



To have Sanction proofed Russia

F

That Russian soldiers would be greeted as Liberators

F

That Zelensky would capitulate

F

That the Ukraine army would quickly fold, and the citizenry would cower and obey

F

Hubris, classic, eternal hubris

Pride goeth before the fall.


The velocity here is astounding.
And it may accelerate before it slows down
 

Irish#1

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As long as we don't get involved.... whatever works for me. If I was leading Ukraine, I'd take that deal in a heartbeat. Doesn't matter if they have a military.... they'll never be in NATO. If they come back, every Ukrainian probably has an AK in their basement anyway
you’re looking at this from an American prism. You’d probably have a different opinion if you lived in Ukraine.
 

PerthDomer

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Three weeks ago we would have never believed Russia would lose a conventional war to Ukraine either, but here we are. Much to your chagrin.
They're unlikely to have a shortage of raw food goods in the short term. But processing and such will be tough. Russians extract raw resources, generally export, and then import finished goods. It'll be interesting to see which parts of their economy start breaking first, and how soon that leads to changing public opinion.

Remember shipping jams and our chip shortage? None of the big shippers will deal with them, and they can't get any chips from Taiwan, Japan, SK, or the US. They may even have difficulty replacing some high end weapons components. Good luck with any new cars, trucks, etc.
 

NorthDakota

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you’re looking at this from an American prism. You’d probably have a different opinion if you lived in Ukraine.
Yeah... because I'm American? I don't give a shit about Ukraine because I'm not from there, and really have no desire to go there. It's the poorest country in Europe. It's basically North Dakota if we didn't have money. It has no geographic beauty. No famous sites to see. They abort over half their pregnancies. Hell, until a couple weeks ago the world had apparently been mispronouncing the only city of theirs any of us had heard of.

"If you lived in Ukraine" lol chances are I wouldn't have been born. Likely would have been aborted. They aren't some noble people deserving our love and support. They are just another shitty group of people like Russians.
 

MacIrish75

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Yeah... because I'm American? I don't give a shit about Ukraine because I'm not from there, and really have no desire to go there. It's the poorest country in Europe. It's basically North Dakota if we didn't have money. It has no geographic beauty. No famous sites to see. They abort over half their pregnancies. Hell, until a couple weeks ago the world had apparently been mispronouncing the only city of theirs any of us had heard of.

"If you lived in Ukraine" lol chances are I wouldn't have been born. Likely would have been aborted. They aren't some noble people deserving our love and support. They are just another shitty group of people like Russians.
Man, you’ve really shown your ass in this thread.
 

GATTACA!

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Yeah... because I'm American? I don't give a shit about Ukraine because I'm not from there, and really have no desire to go there. It's the poorest country in Europe. It's basically North Dakota if we didn't have money. It has no geographic beauty. No famous sites to see. They abort over half their pregnancies. Hell, until a couple weeks ago the world had apparently been mispronouncing the only city of theirs any of us had heard of.

"If you lived in Ukraine" lol chances are I wouldn't have been born. Likely would have been aborted. They aren't some noble people deserving our love and support. They are just another shitty group of people like Russians.
Big yikes
 

calvegas04

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Yeah... because I'm American? I don't give a shit about Ukraine because I'm not from there, and really have no desire to go there. It's the poorest country in Europe. It's basically North Dakota if we didn't have money. It has no geographic beauty. No famous sites to see. They abort over half their pregnancies. Hell, until a couple weeks ago the world had apparently been mispronouncing the only city of theirs any of us had heard of.

"If you lived in Ukraine" lol chances are I wouldn't have been born. Likely would have been aborted. They aren't some noble people deserving our love and support. They are just another shitty group of people like Russians.
Spoken like a true michigan man
 

drayer54

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Yes. They've seen the danger of their old approach. And it helps us because a rearmed Europe can deal with their near abroad and free us up to deal with Asia. Increasing their LNG import ability is also good for our economy.

The sanctions are going to last for a while. Even if they abate as long as Putin is in charge Russia will be seen as much riskier to deal with and foreign investment won't flood back in. You'll see accelerating emigration of young Russians and their economy continue to circle the drain.
LNG’s time is now, but…

 

PerthDomer

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My mom's family came from Odessa. Are you gonna tell me i can't opine about my own tribe?
Were you aware that Ukraine and Belarus have seen much faster declines in their abortion rates than Russia since the USSR's breakup? Would it also make sense that former Soviet block countries were trying to escape their orbit given what Russia has to offer? Sky high abortion rates and some of the lowest life expectancies for men in the industrialized world due sky high rates of alcoholism...
 

NorthDakota

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Were you aware that Ukraine and Belarus have seen much faster declines in their abortion rates than Russia since the USSR's breakup? Would it also make sense that former Soviet block countries were trying to escape their orbit given what Russia has to offer? Sky high abortion rates and some of the lowest life expectancies for men in the industrialized world due sky high rates of alcoholism...
Being slightly less shitty than your neighbor doesn't make you a good person. Especially when your neighbor is Russia.
 

NorthDakota

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But it would seem escaping that orbit might be a path to a better life. Something that you might even fight for.
If they want to fight, good for them. Go fight then. Spend more time fighting and less time crying about the consequences.
 

calvegas04

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russia's military is on their way to being on par with isis in terms of fire power

 

greyhammer90

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Were you aware that Ukraine and Belarus have seen much faster declines in their abortion rates than Russia since the USSR's breakup? Would it also make sense that former Soviet block countries were trying to escape their orbit given what Russia has to offer? Sky high abortion rates and some of the lowest life expectancies for men in the industrialized world due sky high rates of alcoholism...

Don't bother. The abortion thing is just.an angle. There's lots of folks on this site that are reluctant to escalate this conflict, despite feeling grave concern and heartbreak at the plight of the Ukrainian people, due to a genuine concern for the potential nuclear devastation that escalation might bring. NoDak just said his quiet part out loud: That he doesnt give a shit about the people of Ukraine because he's not from there. He's performing cognitive somersaults by pointing to a single metric that should apparently make his lack of empathy at the shelling of a largely innocent citizenry more justifiable.

These are the kind of statements that gives good Christians a bad name in broader circles. Of course, there's no danger of that on this board because we all know better than to conflate NoDak's routine tribalism with Christian philosophy.
 

Valpodoc85

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If you have Twitter look up mark hertling. Former us commander in Europe is giving some interesting insights on what is happening
 
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