'22 LA WR Amoron Walker (Michigan Signee)

[IrishLax]

I think thats well said I also think its an idea in a vacuum.

Neither you, I, or anyone else on this board knows what happened in the past month with this kid. Further, you have no idea whats been going on in his life writ large up till now.

We have a tiny looking glass into high school kid's lives and then make grand assumptions about what the whole thing must look like. Its just not that way sometimes.

Most of us have a hard and fast rule about posting on kid's social media. Not necessarily because its unethical, but because it's weird. Why is it OK for us to sit here and talk shit about their core character when they're not even out of high school?

Were not saying they don't have the grades, their bullies, they got in trouble with the law.... we're impugning their core character because they didn't choose ND and liked another school better.

If it went the other way... and they talked shit on another school while flipping to us... yall would love it and don't play like you wouldn't.

The first bolded is a good point. But to clarify on the second bolded, I feel totally comfortable saying that it's a "character flaw" to lie to people. I'm not saying he's a bad person -- I'm saying it's (at best) a sign of immaturity to lie to people repeatedly. You're not going to see me do mental gymnastics to say lying == good. And there are certainly no ends that justify the means. He gains nothing from lying, but it very well cost a grown man with a family his job. There is asymmetrical downside to how he has chosen to act.

I would feel the exact same if Michigan is the party being lied to. I think your last point is offbase. It's about the action. I would care less, but I sure as hell wouldn't "love it."

Last thought before I head to bed -- I've never had a player do something like Walker is doing, and I'm not sure what I would do as his coach. But I think some adults in his life should've have stepped in at some point and said simply "you don't have to talk to people every day, take time to make a final decision."

 

[andre784]

This is nothing like Henning.

Henning never was committed and didn't seem to be totally invested in idea of ever committing to ND.

Based on what I recall, we essentially took Watts over him.

ND definitely wanted AJ. Believe we led at one point but didn't hold on even though he visited like 5 times.

 

[IrishBoognish]

For Whiskey,

If you think I have anything less than wildly unhealthy emotional fandom for Notre Dame, youre wrong. It's a strange and all encompassing part of my adult life.

I really dig you and all the old school cats on here. Seems we found something we ultimately disagree about though. Thats alright... im new. Its a small thing in the macro.

Not gonna say I'm not bummed about some of the things said... (I think we're better than that) but I still really appreciate you all.


Good night Nerds.

 

[Crazy Balki]

I feel like there's a big difference between criticizing the way someone handled the last few months of their recruitment, and being disappointed that it's going to weaken ND's class/put WR numbers in an even more dangerous place

vs

saying a recruit should be publicly dragged, or that we need time as a board to heal.

Also threatening bans tonight was some bull shlt

If you're going to quote me as a means to demean my opinion, how about getting the quote and the context right.

Also, I never said anything publicly dragging a recruit. Jesus, WTF?

 

[Crazy Balki]

ND definitely wanted AJ. Believe we led at one point but didn't hold on even though he visited like 5 times.

I'm sure ND would've taken him if he wanted in.

But the fact that he visited 5 times and never committed should tell you exactly how good of a shot we had. I don't think he ever was gonna come to ND and after a while of him just not pulling the trigger, despite visiting and I'm sure he was offered multiple chances to commit, ND eventually moved on to Watts.

But again, that's nothing like what we're seeing with Walker.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

For Whiskey,

If you think I have anything less than wildly unhealthy emotional fandom for Notre Dame, youre wrong. It's a strange and all encompassing part of my adult life.

I really dig you and all the old school cats on here. Seems we found something we ultimately disagree about though. Thats alright... im new. Its a small thing in the macro.

Not gonna say I'm not bummed about some of the things said... (I think we're better than that) but I still really appreciate you all.


Good night Nerds.

I'm not looking to pick a fight, and I certainly don't want to ban anyone. But people are going to be upset tomorrow, they will be looking to vent here, and I don't want to see the board devolve into different factions trying to police the reactions of others. As ND fans, I'm hoping we can all show each other some grace on ESD.

If posts critical of Walker et al are over the line, I promise to delete them as soon as they're brought to my attention.

Apologies to all for the heated rhetoric.

 

[Te'o4Heisman]

Also, I never said anything publicly dragging a recruit. Jesus, WTF?

You did not, but if you read above, another poster did. I
think his point was more that there is a big difference between being disappointed about some of the things that have happened and how they were are being handled by recruits, and some of the overly emotional, irrational comments that were made in this thread tonight.

 

[andre784]

The 2022 class is a important group but a year from now the 2023 class will define what the Freeman era actually looks like. This class was the starting point to what we hope can be a string of iconic recruiting classes going onward even if they slipped on recruiting WRs.

 

[Te'o4Heisman]

I'm not looking to pick a fight, and I certainly don't want to ban anyone. But people are going to be upset tomorrow, they will be looking to vent here, and I don't want to see the board devolve into different factions trying to police the reactions of others. As ND fans, I'm hoping we can all show each other some grace on ESD.

If posts critical of Walker et al are over the line, I promise to delete them as soon as they're brought to my attention.

Apologies to all for the heated rhetoric.

My hope is that all will be able to maintain their dignity regardless of what happens tomorrow. If a kid doesnt pick ND tomorrow, my personal opinion is rather than come in here to vent about all that went wrong, instead pop into a thread for a kid who signs their LOI. Spend the day celebrating the awesome players we DO have coming, and let the coaches do their job worrying about and filling any depth issues on the roster moving forward. At the end of the day its nothing any of us can control anyhow.

 

[ulukinatme]

Ya'll need to relax. Take some of this discussion elsewhere maybe. Whatever happen will happen. We made do with less WR talent last year, we'll figure it out next year too. We'll get through it, even if no WR commits.

 

[T-Boone]

If we get Tobias I’ll be happy. Get some other dudes down the track and some transfers and we a okay. Get on with 23.

 

[Crazy Balki]

You did not, but if you read above, another poster did. I
think his point was more that there is a big difference between being disappointed about some of the things that have happened and how they were are being handled by recruits, and some of the overly emotional, irrational comments that were made in this thread tonight.

Okay, but can we please not bunch my comments re: CJ with that. Because that's insanely disingenuous.

What I said is nothing close to irrational. Again, I'm not wishing ill of CJ, so I'd rather not be bunched in with any comments that may insinuate that.

I simply don't respect the decision of a guy who strung ND along, spurned them for their arch rival, and most importantly, insulted a guy who is committed to ND.

 

[Crazy Balki]

Ya'll need to relax. Take some of this discussion elsewhere maybe. Whatever happen will happen. We made do with less WR talent last year, we'll figure it out next year too. We'll get through it, even if no WR commits.

That's debatable.

It depends entirely on whether guys like Austin or Lenzy come back. We BARELY made do, considering we are hurting depth wise currently due to injury.

If a guy like Austin or Lenzy (or both) choose to move on, that depth that was already bad gets significantly worse.

I'm all for looking on the bright side, but there's really no getting around it. It's a terrible situation for us to be in and landing 1 commit, if Walker flips, makes it even worse.

 

[T-Boone]

That Salerno kid will get a scholarship

 

[InKellyWeTrust]

Yeah, we all need to just relax. If you don't remember, we just had our head coach of 12+ years walk out suddenly in the midst of a college football playoff push. This class could have completely disintegrated but has been kept largely intact due to the efforts of the staff. All the players love our new head coach and from their reactions, recruits do too. Still being able to land a top 10 class in a transition year is incredible imo. So what if we "lose" a few guys he probably flake out at some point in their Irish careers anyway? The guys signing are going to continue the high level of play that has brought this program to perennial CFP contenders. As sick as it makes me feel to say it, we can thank Kelly for that.

 

[FWIrish4]

Here’s my two cents on the situation that are my biggest issues with how Walker has handled it.

1. As you mentioned, Del is probably losing his job. Yeah, he may have been gone before. Regardless, lying to him literally through signing day while he honored your commitment and didn’t recruit over you doesn’t fly.

2. Obtaining high end WR talent (hell even warm bodies) was crucial heading into this cycle and we’re going to walk away with only 1 (who I really like).

Screw the portal idea for a second, this is absolutely devastating to the depth in 2023/2024. This is what makes me the most upset. In those years, we are going to have our most talented roster since the Holtz days with all of these classes stacked up. If Buchner is the guy, we have our elite quarterback with a stacked roster. We will have only the three current freshman (maybe) and Tobias + any 2023 kids as freshman in the WR room. Top end talent is probably great but there is zero room for error with an injury. One injury could literally derail our best shot at a title (from a talent perspective) in decades and that is by far the biggest disappointment I have with this cycle.

3. If he still ends up at ND then that is great, doesn’t mean it changes how he handled this process doesn’t sit well with most of us. It would be a long, awkward convo to get past it once he joins the roster.

 

[Irish#1]

Ya'll need to relax. Take some of this discussion elsewhere maybe. Whatever happen will happen. We made do with less WR talent last year, we'll figure it out next year too. We'll get through it, even if no WR commits.

 

[Cackalacky2.0]

ND being lied to, right?

Sources in the Gug something something.

 

[Reaper97]

I have a serious problem with people calling out 18 yo kids... ya... theyre still kids... on having "character flaws" or bitching about their "integrity".

Yall grown ups need to calm the fuck down with that.

They have the biggest and brightest "grown ups" in their ears pulling them every which way. Telling them whats best for their whole future.

You have no idea what their lives look like or what they see.


Don't embarrass your good selves trying to besmirch some kid you never met because they didnt make the decision you think is best.

Fuck outta here with that.

We can say... boy. I sure think going to ND would be smart... but to call a kids integrity into question when they have 3 or 4 teams of grown ass men, paid millions of dollars to flip kids... you look like an awful person and should check yourself.

think about it.

I will call it out & you can or not care about it. When I was 17 I signed a contract with USAF. I was surrounded by “kids” who were 17 & 18 who had integrity.
I don’t care where the kid goes, just have some common courtesy & integrity in how you do it.
Notice I didn’t say anything about Moore? Because he was mature enough to decommit & notify the ND staff & not lie to their faces. A 17 year old is plenty old enough to be honest.
You can take you soapbox speech & take it “fuck outta here…” The person who needs to calm down is your over-sensitive ass.

 

[MacIrish75]

I will call it out & you can or not care about it. When I was 17 I signed a contract with USAF. I was surrounded by “kids” who were 17 & 18 who had integrity.
I don’t care where the kid goes, just have some common courtesy & integrity in how you do it.
Notice I didn’t say anything about Moore? Because he was mature enough to decommit & notify the ND staff & not lie to their faces. A 17 year old is plenty old enough to be honest.
You can take you soapbox speech & take it “fuck outta here…” The person who needs to calm down is your over-sensitive ass.

What a dumb take. This doesn’t have anything to do with this kid’s integrity. Maybe Walker truly is torn? Maybe he’s doing it for attention. Truth is, neither you or I know. But, to denigrate him for his handling a process that only maybe a 1% on this board can truly comprehend (and not at this level), is laughable.

Go somewhere else with your “back in my day” spiel.

 

[NDdomer2]

Hey can we all appreciate the irony that Crazy Balki's profile says "Site Apssigned Optimist"

 

[BeauBenken]

The hell happened here last night...

 

[NEIIrish]

The hell happened here last night...

Purse swinging and vaginal sand convention, didnt you get the invite?

 

[Rogue219]

LOL. This thread.

 

[Free Manera]

Good God that's Houston's music!

 

[IrishRazor82]

You don't think it's a character flaw to bold face lie to people? Really? This is one of the basic tenets of human existence throughout every culture on the planet.

We have completely jumped the shark in how we bend over backwards to excuse behavior that wouldn't be tolerated by elementary school children.

I'm not saying this as some crotchety old guy that thinks kids owe fans/schools/coaches a damn thing. I'm coming at this as someone who currently coaches and is intimately familiar with the recruiting process. My school puts a half dozen players in D1 every year. I currently coach two Team USA players. We have 5-star basketball players at my school too. And we play in a conference that is as loaded as any in the country except that California football factory league.

I would be absolutely mortified if one of my players conducted themselves how Walker did. There is nothing wrong with flipping your commitment, listening to other schools while committed, etc. However, there is proper way to handle your business. Being a liar -- either because you don't have the stomach to be honest, or as part of a charade to make a splash and "surprise" people -- is not it. At best, it is immaturity. At best.

He has been telling ND all the way through today that he is all in and would be signing tomorrow. He's been telling the exact same thing to Michigan. It does not matter which people he is lying to... this is not how human beings are supposed to behave, period.

If you want an example from just this year, Devin Moore is a perfect example. Verballed to ND -> kept listening to other schools -> decommitted -> will make a final decision. Was respectful to all parties the entire time, very little to be criticized unless you want to nitpick.

Last thing I'll say -- I could go into detail on the advice we give our players on how to handle recruiting and commitments, but suffice to say I have seen many verbal commitments switched over many years and have never seen a player on any of our teams conduct themselves even close to this. I think that I have very reasonable expectations on conduct, and I think it speaks to some larger cultural problems in society that people are completely desensitized to deceit/disrespect/selfishness. I get it, because college football coaches are the kings of that kind of behavior and modeling it for these kids, but it's still jarring.

I essentially agree with all of this. Phone calls are one thing, but try to imagine the time Del/MF/BK/Rees spent getting on a plane and spending time with a kid who's been telling Michigan "I'll be there" for months. These people have families and other kids who actually might be truthful to ND they could be spending time with.

Respect for others' time is a lost art. Del's been on the fence and likely loses his job over losing Walker. Think about that...

 

[317Irish]

Good God that's Houston's music!

you bite your tongue! Forever too soon…

 

[Free Manera]

you bite your tongue! Forever too soon…

Houston was way ahead of the NIL game back then....

 

[IrishLax]

ISD was told this morning by (presumably a family member) that it’s “swinging back to ND”…

They cautioned this update with saying that you basically can’t believe a word that you hear on this until he signs. He’s telling everyone what they want to hear to build drama or because he doesn’t know what to do after leading multiple teams down the same path or because he’s waiting to see if Bama has a spot for him or…

 

[Irishnuke]

I’m not gonna read all of this shit but both sides have valid points. Some of you need to stop coddling these “children.” They’re not as unaware of their actions as some think. Their parents bear some responsibility for their kids’ diva behavior as well. None of them are above criticism. I spent 3 years as a Navy recruiter. Shitty job for sure. 16-20 year olds are mostly stupid. They’re generally a pain in the ass to deal with. Same with their parents. That said, don’t tweet recruits and call them losers or talk shit to them. That’s pathetic.