Police State USA

Wild Bill

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Yeah, like I said, I'm not a lawyer but if I was on that jury there is no chance I'd convict on anything but the gun charge.

The weirder thing -- to me -- appears to be the circus surrounding the trial by the adults. The prosecutor is a clown show. The judge seems occasionally off his rocker. The juror making a joke about someone getting shot... while serving on a trial about three other people getting shot... is insane. Maybe he was intentionally trying to get thrown off the jury. But it's shocking to see the lack of professionalism across the board.

Definitely was not. He told the judge it was a joke and had nothing to do with the trial - basically that he could be fair. He's just an idiot.

This entire trial is a direct result of adults not behaving like adults. Bunch of morons incapable of imposing even the lowest levels of order on society and chaos breaks out. Real shocker.
 

ulukinatme

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The entire trial is bizarre. There is quite obvious bias/malice on multiple sides. The judge dismissing the charge of him being out past curfew for "lack of evidence" is absurd when there are multiple videos and eye witness accounts that clearly put him out past curfew and all were brought in as evidence. The prosecutor likewise did some absurd things. I'm no lawyer but I've never, ever seen or heard of a judge just start screaming at someone in open court even when they do something egregious.

Trending towards either a mistrial or him getting convicted on the gun charge (should be black and white -- he was 17 and was illegally possesing a firearm)... fairly certain the judge is not going to give him 9 months on that though, likely will give him zero the way he is administering this trial.

It was a nice touch that the judge's ringtone is the same song Trump plays when he takes the stage for rallies. I don't care if that means anything or not, it's bad optics and what kind of grown ass man has a ringtone these days.

I think he will be found guilty on smaller counts, like the curfew and illegally possessing a firearm, but the other heavy charges shouldn't stick based on the video evidence and Gaige's own testimony. As others have mentioned the judge lit in to the prosecutor and it seems to be justified. Binger made a few major screw ups. Here's a better explanation from ABC News:

MADISON, Wis. -- The murder case against Kyle Rittenhouse flirted with a mistrial Wednesday after the lead prosecutor angered the judge with his questioning of the defendant.

Rittenhouse's attorneys called him to testify about his actions on Aug. 25, 2020, when he shot three men, killing two and wounding a third, during protests on the streets of Kenosha that followed a white police officer shooting Jacob Blake, a Black man, while responding to a domestic disturbance.

Legal experts said doing so risked exposing Rittenhouse to harsh cross-examination, and lead prosecutor Thomas Binger did so — with a line of questioning that prompted Judge Bruce Schroeder to shout at him and say, “I don't believe you," at one point when Binger argued he had been acting in good faith.

Rittenhouse's attorneys said they would seek a mistrial with prejudice — meaning the case could not be re-filed — and Schroeder said he would consider their motion later.

So what got the judge so angry?

Prosecutors earlier this year sought permission to introduce into evidence a brief video taken 15 days before the protest shootings, in which Rittenhouse is heard watching some men exit a CVS pharmacy and commenting that he wished he had his rifle so he could shoot them because he thought they were shoplifters.

Binger argued at a pretrial hearing that it showed Rittenhouse’s mindset as “a teenage vigilante, involving himself in things that don’t concern him.” But Schroeder questioned its relevance and said at a pretrial hearing that he was inclined not to allow it — but suggested he might reassess that at trial.

Binger peppered Rittenhouse with question after question asking him whether it was acceptable to use deadly force to protect people. The defense eventually objected and Schroeder angrily sent the jury out.

When Binger told the judge he had left the door open in his early ruling, Schroeder yelled: “For me! Not for you!”

Rittenhouse’s attorney also accused Binger of commenting on his client’s right to remain silent about the case, to which Binger responded that the defendant was tailoring his testimony to details already introduced in court.

That also angered Schroeder, who called it a “grave constitutional violation” to talk about the defendant’s silence and warning him that he “better stop.”

“That’s basically, it’s been basic law in this country for 40 years, 50 years,” Schroeder said. “I have no idea why you would do something like that.”

Phil Turner, a Chicago-based defense attorney and former federal prosecutor, agreed.

“You can never, never comment on the fact that the defendant did not say something,” Turner told The Associated Press. “He or she has a Fifth Amendment right not to incriminate themselves. You don’t go near it as a prosecutor. Never.”

Though Schroeder took the mistrial request under advisement, it seemed unlikely he would grant it. Near the end of the court day Wednesday, he told the jury he expected the case to wrap up early next week.

“What Binger did was deliberate,” Daniel Adams, a defense attorney and former Milwaukee County assistant prosecutor, told The Associated Press Wednesday. “He didn’t ask for permission. He thought he could slip it in and ask for forgiveness. He knew better. He tried to pull a fast one and he was called on it. In a case where you’ve been preparing for months, it’s of national importance, this wasn’t an accident.”

But Adams said the judge would have to find Binger’s actions egregious for him to declare a mistrial with prejudice. He said he couldn’t remember when a judge has ever granted such a motion.

It’s not unusual once testimony concludes for criminal defense attorneys to ask a judge to dismiss charges — or in a civil case, issue what’s known as a directed verdict — if there’s insufficient evidence to support a conviction before a case goes to a jury.
 

ulukinatme

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It was a nice touch that the judge's ringtone is the same song Trump plays when he takes the stage for rallies. I don't care if that means anything or not, it's bad optics and what kind of grown ass man has a ringtone these days.

Yeah, absolutely...
<Phone rings and Legend of Zelda theme plays>
Who...who does that? :redface:
 

NorthDakota

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I think the people looking into the judge's ringtone are likely being silly. It's a patriotic song. I voted for The Don twice and don't associate it with him when I hear it.

I have my phone on silent at all times. So it's not something that would ever happen to me.
 

Irish#1

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It was a nice touch that the judge's ringtone is the same song Trump plays when he takes the stage for rallies. I don't care if that means anything or not, it's bad optics and what kind of grown ass man has a ringtone these days.

:wave:

I have the ND Fight Song as my ringtone for my family.
 

IrishLion

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Prosecutors earlier this year sought permission to introduce into evidence a brief video taken 15 days before the protest shootings, in which Rittenhouse is heard watching some men exit a CVS pharmacy and commenting that he wished he had his rifle so he could shoot them because he thought they were shoplifters.

Wow, hadn't even heard about that. I saw the video where he hit the girl and then got his ass beat for it, but never saw this one.

Not sure why the judge wouldn't let them explore that angle, to be honest. If a kid travels out of state and attains an illegal firearm to "help the police," but was on video previously stating his desire to shoot bad guys for minor offenses... is it really crazy to wonder if Rittenhouse showed up at the riots hoping he'd get a chance to take down some "bad guys," and then got his chance when they came for him?

Seems like a worthy angle to explore, even if it ultimately doesn't change the fact that he was technically defending himself in the moment.
 

drayer54

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Wow, hadn't even heard about that. I saw the video where he hit the girl and then got his ass beat for it, but never saw this one.

Not sure why the judge wouldn't let them explore that angle, to be honest. If a kid travels out of state and attains an illegal firearm to "help the police," but was on video previously stating his desire to shoot bad guys for minor offenses... is it really crazy to wonder if Rittenhouse showed up at the riots hoping he'd get a chance to take down some "bad guys," and then got his chance when they came for him?

Seems like a worthy angle to explore, even if it ultimately doesn't change the fact that he was technically defending himself at the moment.

Rittenhouse is guilty of terrible judgment and being an idiot 17-year-old, for sure. The state lines thing is silly considering proximity and ties there. It's also not clear that the firearm was illegal as he could legally carry it, but not own it according to the motion to dismiss that charge that was denied. Not saying he won't be guilty there, but it is certainly not a certainty.
 

ulukinatme

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I think the people looking into the judge's ringtone are likely being silly. It's a patriotic song. I voted for The Don twice and don't associate it with him when I hear it.

I have my phone on silent at all times. So it's not something that would ever happen to me.

Despite the fact I'm guilty on the ringtone issue, I agree with Lax here. It certainly could be considered the judge is conservative biased given Greenwood's outspoken support of Trump. It's not completely damning, after all at the end of the day it's just a ringtone and 4 years ago it wasn't unheard of to love your country, but many will make the connection anyway.

I'd be lying if I didn't say I've been on a few meetings, got busy and forget to silence the phone. My text notification is also the "treasure chest open" jingle from LoZ: Link to the Past, and my app notification is Navi from LoZ Ocarina of Time saying "Hey! Listen." Yes, I am a super nerd. I also go to Applebees and queue up Weird Al on the Touch Tunes jukebox via my phone, then watch as waitresses walk around confused asking "Who is playing this?":crap:
 

ulukinatme

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Wow, hadn't even heard about that. I saw the video where he hit the girl and then got his ass beat for it, but never saw this one.

Not sure why the judge wouldn't let them explore that angle, to be honest. If a kid travels out of state and attains an illegal firearm to "help the police," but was on video previously stating his desire to shoot bad guys for minor offenses... is it really crazy to wonder if Rittenhouse showed up at the riots hoping he'd get a chance to take down some "bad guys," and then got his chance when they came for him?

Seems like a worthy angle to explore, even if it ultimately doesn't change the fact that he was technically defending himself in the moment.

The video where he's supposedly hitting the girl is flagged as unconfirmed by Snopes, which is a bit surprising frankly. I just saw it for the first time myself today. Certainly a good possibility it could be him, not that it directly pertains to the case. Details are sketchy, hopefully someone gets more info.

RIttenhouse definitely took down one or two bad guys though, that much is certain. Rosenbaum had multiple offenses for sexually abusing kids, nobody is missing him. The second had past domestic charges for abusing his wife I think, not as heinous but still made poor choices that night that led to his death. Gaige had past charges of burglary and he was the survivor, he was just an idiot. Rosenbaum was the most aggressive that night and the trouble really started with him.
 
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NorthDakota

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The video where he's supposedly hitting the girl is flagged as unconfirmed by Snopes, which is a bit surprising frankly. I just saw it for the first time myself today. Certainly a good possibility it could be him, not that it directly pertains to the case. Details are sketchy, hopefully someone gets more info.

RIttenhouse definitely took down one or two bad guys though, that much is certain. Rosenbaum had multiple offenses for sexually abusing kids, nobody is missing him. The second had past domestic charges for abusing his wife I think, not as heinous but still made poor choices that night that led to his death. Gaige had past charges of burglary and he was the survivor, he was just an idiot. Rosenbaum was the most aggressive that night and the trouble really started with him.

The fun thing about the Rittenhouse shooting is that...while the kid is dumb and should not have been there.

He exclusively shot people who the world is better without..
 

drayer54

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Trending towards either a mistrial or him getting convicted on the gun charge (should be black and white -- he was 17 and was illegally possesing a firearm)... fairly certain the judge is not going to give him 9 months on that though, likely will give him zero the way he is administering this trial.

Charge dismissed.

[TWEET]https://twitter.com/willchamberlain/status/1299046068089430018?s=20[/TWEET]

[TWEET]https://twitter.com/thelauracoates/status/1460283149460590599?s=20[/TWEET]


.... LOL
FEQAq9JVQAECwzA
 
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drayer54

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The only thing Binger does well is make me think I could be a Prosecutor in 15 easy minutes.
[TWEET]https://twitter.com/FreeBeacon/status/1460304683940167693?s=20[/TWEET]
 

Irish#1

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I was a little mesmerized by the judge in the clip. Wonder what he was doing? He sure wasn't listening to the prosecutor.
 

TorontoGold

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I was a little mesmerized by the judge in the clip. Wonder what he was doing? He sure wasn't listening to the prosecutor.

Oh this "Let's Go Brandon!" shirt looks incredible, once this dick head prosecutor shuts up I'll have to get one.
 

NorthDakota

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The prosecutor seems to be really reaching regarding the AR-15 and the ammunition lol.
 

drayer54

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Oh this "Let's Go Brandon!" shirt looks incredible, once this dick head prosecutor shuts up I'll have to get one.

I've watched a lot of this trial. People who practice in this court often say this is 100% typical behavior for the Judge. He's typically careful with the rights of the defendant and also typically tougher on punishment. I know some people don't like him, presumably because he is a white male and likely has a favorable view of the country he lives in. He was appointed by a Dem. Gov. But, clearly he has annoyed many with his application of the law and his defense of the defendant's right to maintain silence.

I think the Kyle haters wanted a clueless Judge who would just apply their willy-nilly state-line provocation narrative.

[TWEET]https://twitter.com/regggaemylitis/status/1460263462077181954?s=20[/TWEET]
 

NorthDakota

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Pretty fun hearing an attorney with a thicker accent than me give a closing argument.
 

TorontoGold

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I've watched a lot of this trial. People who practice in this court often say this is 100% typical behavior for the Judge. He's typically careful with the rights of the defendant and also typically tougher on punishment. I know some people don't like him, presumably because he is a white male and likely has a favorable view of the country he lives in. He was appointed by a Dem. Gov. But, clearly he has annoyed many with his application of the law and his defense of the defendant's right to maintain silence.

I think the Kyle haters wanted a clueless Judge who would just apply their willy-nilly state-line provocation narrative.

[TWEET]https://twitter.com/regggaemylitis/status/1460263462077181954?s=20[/TWEET]

Nice. I'm not a lawyer and live where the laws are a lot different so I won't comment on the legal arguments. Morality wise, it seems insane for someone to pack for a medic day out at a riot by bringing his AR-15. That doesn't jive with me personally since I can't square up with that no matter the political motivation. Back in the day if you brought a weapon to a school fight you were looked at as a pussy. Then again, playing army dress up fits right in without outcast trying to play militia hero, total beta energy. Luckily for him he took out that diddler and just won the duel with the other bozo who brought a gun.

My comment was in italics because of his ringtone and a simple joke that he's a Trumper supporter. But who cares if he is, because you're already cooked if you have political appointments for judges so that's whatever.
 

ulukinatme

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The memes

FD8CYKwXIAEX8qI


FELZuBVWQAYx4DV


For reference, the one on the left is Justin Hammer from Iron Man 2.
[TWEET]https://twitter.com/jarhalffull86/status/1460332134351130628[/TWEET]

[TWEET]https://twitter.com/MattWalshBlog/status/1458515301868478465[/TWEET]

[TWEET]https://twitter.com/AbelRamirezII/status/1458530005852491779[/TWEET]
 

drayer54

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Nice. I'm not a lawyer and live where the laws are a lot different so I won't comment on the legal arguments. Morality wise, it seems insane for someone to pack for a medic day out at a riot by bringing his AR-15. That doesn't jive with me personally since I can't square up with that no matter the political motivation. Back in the day if you brought a weapon to a school fight you were looked at as a pussy. Then again, playing army dress up fits right in without outcast trying to play militia hero, total beta energy. Luckily for him he took out that diddler and just won the duel with the other bozo who brought a gun.

My comment was in italics because of his ringtone and a simple joke that he's a Trumper supporter. But who cares if he is, because you're already cooked if you have political appointments for judges so that's whatever.

I would strongly question the judgement on several decisions Kyle made. I would smack the parents for putting him in that situation. None of that justified the media assault nor does it make him guilty.
 
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Irish#1

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Nice. I'm not a lawyer and live where the laws are a lot different so I won't comment on the legal arguments. Morality wise, it seems insane for someone to pack for a medic day out at a riot by bringing his AR-15. That doesn't jive with me personally since I can't square up with that no matter the political motivation. Back in the day if you brought a weapon to a school fight you were looked at as a pussy. Then again, playing army dress up fits right in without outcast trying to play militia hero, total beta energy. Luckily for him he took out that diddler and just won the duel with the other bozo who brought a gun.

My comment was in italics because of his ringtone and a simple joke that he's a Trumper supporter. But who cares if he is, because you're already cooked if you have political appointments for judges so that's whatever.

Where the hell did you go to school that kids were bringing guns to school? I graduated in '70 and nobody carried a gun back then. when guns laws and school regulations were way more relaxed.
 

Irish#1

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I would strongly question the judgement on several decisions Kyle made. I would smack the parents for putting him in that situation. None of that justified the media assault nor does it make him guilty.

Yeah, he didn't make the best decisions.
 

NorthDakota

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Where the hell did you go to school that kids were bringing guns to school? I graduated in '70 and nobody carried a gun back then. when guns laws and school regulations were way more relaxed.

I think he's talking knives and stuff.

A lot of guys at my school had guns in their vehicles. People would go hunting before and after school. I dont think anyone was dumb enough to bring it into the building though.
 

drayer54

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Blue check Twitter is going to deliver for the next few days regarding Kyle. [TWEET]https://twitter.com/GregoryMcKelvey/status/1460363150096621570?s=20[/TWEET]
 

RDU Irish

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I think he's talking knives and stuff.

A lot of guys at my school had guns in their vehicles. People would go hunting before and after school. I dont think anyone was dumb enough to bring it into the building though.

Still an issue in rural America - parking lot is school grounds and kids are rung up for "bringing a gun to school". Police dogs are trained to smell gun powder or whatever an uncleaned gun smells like and in drug sweeps they may find a gun in the trunk of some hunter. Suburban dipshits will forever lament how it is unbelievable and obviously those kids are threats to society that should be burned alive when it is just a kid who traps or hunts and forgot or didn't give AF. More often than not they are future Marines and Army grunts or farmer or welders or some other highly undesirable unwashed peon like Kyle Rittehhouse.
 
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