Offensive Line Thread

[ThePiombino]

I was listening to the Dryskel podcast today and he had mentioned that he received information via multiple sources that the last few years McGlinchey, Alex bars and other veterans were watching game film and coming up with game plans and doing team instruction for the o-line not Quinn. I’m asking you specifically because you seem to have a good pulse on the program. If this turns out to be true...this might be the most absurd thing I have heard since Willingham’s golf adventures.


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Ummm fucking what?!

 

[tommyIRISH23]

Ummm fucking what?!

Go to part 2 of his podcast posted today and it’s in like the last 30/40 mins.


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[IrishLax]

I was listening to the Dryskel podcast today and he had mentioned that he received information via multiple sources that the last few years McGlinchey, Alex bars and other veterans were watching game film and coming up with game plans and doing team instruction for the o-line not Quinn. I’m asking you specifically because you seem to have a good pulse on the program. If this turns out to be true...this might be the most absurd thing I have heard since Willingham’s golf adventures.


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Even by Driskell standards, that's a doozie. First of all, McGlinchey never even played under Quinn. Hiestand left for the Bears after the 2017 season. McGlinchey was drafted in the first round on April 26, 2018. How was McGlinchey putting together game plans and doing OL instruction instead of Quinn when the first game Quinn coached wasn't even until 5 months after McGlinchey was on an NFL roster? Was he flying in from San Francisco to do film sessions?

If that's actually what Driskell said, then he is an absolute hack.

 

[greyhammer90]

I was listening to the Dryskel podcast today and he had mentioned that he received information via multiple sources that the last few years McGlinchey, Alex bars and other veterans were watching game film and coming up with game plans and doing team instruction for the o-line not Quinn. I’m asking you specifically because you seem to have a good pulse on the program. If this turns out to be true...this might be the most absurd thing I have heard since Willingham’s golf adventures.


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Weird for McGlinchey to take time from the 49ers to help Quinn out with the gameplan considering he never played for him...

 

[tommyIRISH23]

Even by Driskell standards, that's a doozie. First of all, McGlinchey never even played under Quinn. Hiestand left for the Bears after the 2017 season. McGlinchey was drafted in the first round on April 26, 2018. How was McGlinchey putting together game plans and doing OL instruction instead of Quinn when the first game Quinn coached wasn't even until 5 months after McGlinchey was on an NFL roster? Was he flying in from San Francisco to do film sessions?

If that's actually what Driskell said, then he is an absolute hack.

He specifically said Bars. I apologize, he mentioned McGlinchey a few seconds later stating that McGlinchey, Banks..etc should call the current OL and motivate them to play better because they’re not living up to the legacy...etc my bad on that but he did mention Alex Bars and the film thing


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[greyhammer90]

He specifically said Bars. I apologize, he mentioned McGlinchey a few seconds later stating that McGlinchey, Banks..etc should call the current OL and motivate them to play better because they’re not living up to the legacy...etc my bad on that but he did mention Alex Bars and the film thing


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Driskell is pretty much considered a grade A shit stirrer at this point, and the incredibly large axe he's consistently grinded against Quinn and Rees makes anything he says about either of them extremely suspect.

 

[tommyIRISH23]

Driskell is pretty much considered a grade A shit stirrer at this point, and the incredibly large axe he's consistently grinded against Quinn and Rees makes anything he says about either of them extremely suspect.

Jesus I mean that’s a pretty wild accusation to throw out there. How does he keep his media credentials if this is the type of shit he pulls?


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[IrishLax]

The problem with Driskell is that he has a desperate need to be right. He wanted PJ for his own reasons -- ergo, Book sucks and the coaches are dumb.

He didn't want Tommy Rees to be hired -- ergo, everything that goes wrong is Rees' fault even though he is objectively better in every way than Chip Long.

He didn't want Quinn to get promoted -- ergo, even when the players were a big part of the reason why Quinn got hired, he's going to bang the drum every opportunity that Quinn sucks. Or Quinn doesn't recruit. Or whatever.

The #1 reason the OL sucks is that Hiestand mailed it in on the 2018 class because he knew he was out the door, and all the top rated guys that Quinn signed in 2019 turned out to be busts. Those should be your upperclassmen right now. The 2020 class doesn't look to be much better. Quinn deserves blame for signing highly rated guys that can't play // not developing. But to act like he "can't coach" after what we saw last season is simply ludicrous. Those were guys that he coached for 3 years and they got better every year.

 

[IrishLax]

Jesus I mean that’s a pretty wild accusation to throw out there. How does he keep his media credentials if this is the type of shit he pulls?


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I'm actually not sure if he shows up to games/pressers. At least I know he didn't at multiple points over the past year.

 

[tommyIRISH23]

I'm actually not sure if he shows up to games/pressers. At least I know he didn't at multiple points over the past year.

Ohh okay during his podcast he made it sound like he’s at the games and pressers. He specifically referenced one question a reporter asked and stated that BK would’ve gotten mad/angry at him for asking that question while joking when said reporter asked it. So I assumed he was at the pressers lol. So this guy pretty much just wants to be relevant? Is he knowledgeable or have any insight at all?


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[greyhammer90]

Ohh okay during his podcast he made it sound like he’s at the games and pressers. He specifically referenced one question a reporter asked and stated that BK would’ve gotten mad/angry at him for asking that question while joking when said reporter asked it. So I assumed he was at the pressers lol. So this guy pretty much just wants to be relevant? Is he knowledgeable or have any insight at all?


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Sounds like a chill reasonable dude lol.

Off topic but your avatar makes me happy every time I see it. Happy dogs in the snow are the best.

 

[Sea Turtle]

The problem with Driskell is that he has a desperate need to be right. He wanted PJ for his own reasons -- ergo, Book sucks and the coaches are dumb.

He didn't want Tommy Rees to be hired -- ergo, everything that goes wrong is Rees' fault even though he is objectively better in every way than Chip Long.

He didn't want Quinn to get promoted -- ergo, even when the players were a big part of the reason why Quinn got hired, he's going to bang the drum every opportunity that Quinn sucks. Or Quinn doesn't recruit. Or whatever.

The #1 reason the OL sucks is that Hiestand mailed it in on the 2018 class because he knew he was out the door, and all the top rated guys that Quinn signed in 2019 turned out to be busts. Those should be your upperclassmen right now. The 2020 class doesn't look to be much better. Quinn deserves blame for signing highly rated guys that can't play // not developing. But to act like he "can't coach" after what we saw last season is simply ludicrous. Those were guys that he coached for 3 years and they got better every year.

Every single 2019 and 2020 player he signed is a bust? The chances of that are pretty low.
.
There is much better chance that they all play for the same coach and he stinks like my rotten gym socks from high school.

There is also a much better chance that Hiestands players are now gone. Also, Grad Assistant Watt is gone, and he was the coach, in some ways, rather than Quinn.

Quinn is probably a good drinking buddy. Can pound them down like me and my college buddy on a Saturday night chasing girls.

 

[calvegas04]

Almost seems as if he roots against ND since has all but black listed him

 

[tommyIRISH23]

Sounds like a chill reasonable dude lol.

Off topic but your avatar makes me happy every time I see it. Happy dogs in the snow are the best.

Haha thanks. I’ve had it since I signed up for this site years ago. Unfortunately I had to put my old girl down 3 years ago. Don’t have the heart to change the picture.


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[pumpdog20]

The problem with Driskell is that he has a desperate need to be right. He wanted PJ for his own reasons -- ergo, Book sucks and the coaches are dumb.

He didn't want Tommy Rees to be hired -- ergo, everything that goes wrong is Rees' fault even though he is objectively better in every way than Chip Long.

He didn't want Quinn to get promoted -- ergo, even when the players were a big part of the reason why Quinn got hired, he's going to bang the drum every opportunity that Quinn sucks. Or Quinn doesn't recruit. Or whatever.

The #1 reason the OL sucks is that Hiestand mailed it in on the 2018 class because he knew he was out the door, and all the top rated guys that Quinn signed in 2019 turned out to be busts. Those should be your upperclassmen right now. The 2020 class doesn't look to be much better. Quinn deserves blame for signing highly rated guys that can't play // not developing. But to act like he "can't coach" after what we saw last season is simply ludicrous. Those were guys that he coached for 3 years and they got better every year.

I get that Driskell is public enemy #1 around here, but I think people just refuse to admit when he's right. I personally feel it has more to due with his political leanings that people here don't like, but whatever.

He was right that ND was wrong to let Jurkovek go, and he was right that Ian Book (as big of a fan of his I am) kept the offense from fullfilling its potential. If we had PJ this year, the line problems don't show nearly as bad.

Is Rees really that much better than Long? I legit don't know. I don't think anyone else does either. However letting Long go based on rumored mutany was the right call.

This OLine is horrible. We can say this coach mailed it in 3 years ago or whatever. Bottom line, players that go to ND always have the potential to be coached up. Quinn is not recruiting elites apparently, and he's not coaching up anyone either. The coaching by Quinn has been horrendous.

I honestly don't know if the last few years OLine was really good or Book kept teams honest. When TB12 went in yesterday, I yelled to my wife and kids "watch, this is going to open up the running game". Then KW houses one for 40+ yards. I think the QB has been hiding Quinn's lack of coaching for a while.

 

[T-Boone]

Driskill has it in for Kelly, Quinn and Del. He seems to like Rees and freeman who both did interviews on his show this year. Nothing is rees’s fault from his perspective it is all BK, Quinn or Del.
He is totally irrational about Kelly. His reaction to BKs press conference was totally stupid. Claiming that he is now treating this o-line the same way he treated Book (can do no wrong).

 

[SBirishlawyer]

I think it’s all data points and then draw your own conclusions. But my conclusion is that between driskell free daily you tube and/or this board (also about a dozen other nd podcasts) I get all the info I need for free. There are 3+ pay sites and none of them give you anything you can not get here. So I just do not understand why I would pay for bgi or isd if they can’t or don’t have any inside info I can get a dozen other places for free. Their has to be value added. If the pay sites can not and do not tell me what davonte did or when I will see Botelho then their is no value I can find.

 

[IrishLax]

Every single 2019 and 2020 player he signed is a bust? The chances of that are pretty low.
.
There is much better chance that they all play for the same coach and he stinks like my rotten gym socks from high school.

There is also a much better chance that Hiestands players are now gone. Also, Grad Assistant Watt is gone, and he was the coach, in some ways, rather than Quinn.

Quinn is probably a good drinking buddy. Can pound them down like me and my college buddy on a Saturday night chasing girls.

The problem with this kind of logic is that you have to intentionally ignore that he coached all the dudes on last years' line for 3+ years, and they all got better every single year + played extremely well as a unit last year. They were mediocre-to-bad players across the board when he started coaching them... all you have to do is go back to where they were when he started coaching them (ranked #106 in advanced stats) and look where they finished as a Joe Moore Award finalist. And they were all NFL players by the time he was done.

Until someone can cogently explain why Quinn deserves no credit for what he did developing the guys from freshman/underclassmen into the line we saw last year, I'm not really interested in entertaining conspiracy theories on how he "sucks" as a coach.

 

[SBirishlawyer]

I don’t have an answer but this is the worst O-line I have seen since 07 when one or some were deliberately doing the Olau to let Clausen get lit up bc they preferred the senior qb. Was patterson to some extent and then lugg and correll all over valued due to performance being inflated by the four upper classman and 3 future nflers around them?

 

[Ndaccountant]

We really miss Tommy Tremble.

 

[pumpdog20]

If Quinn is such a good coach, he should be able to coach ND lineman up to be halfway decent. Not asking for Joe Moore material, but how about top 75 in sacks allowed and rushing offense as a starting point.

Asking to be top 75 is absurd for "O Line U", but I'm trying not to be greedy since we're currently 125/109 in those categories after playing a tough schedule the first two games.

Again we can say Quinn "missed" on his recruiting targets. But missing is a high level 4 star not being an all American. Quinn should still be able to coach up ND level recruits to something far better than 125/109.

I look forward to him proving me wrong

 

[NDisme]

We really miss Tommy Tremble.

Yup TE’s aren’t blocking well either

 

[DogDaysIrish]

Ya know what...I don't give a flying F### what Mr. Podcaster says. There is a glaring problem and it needs fixed, NOW. The OL is the worst I've seen in a long time. Nut up and play better. It was freaking Toledo for Christ sakes!!! This is on Kelly and his coaching staff. Dude can't do his job, fire him...kids can't do their job, bench them. Pretty simple, really.

 

[DogDaysIrish]

Yup TE’s aren’t blocking well either

Kyren missed several blocks as well.

 

[ulukinatme]

Even by Driskell standards, that's a doozie. First of all, McGlinchey never even played under Quinn. Hiestand left for the Bears after the 2017 season. McGlinchey was drafted in the first round on April 26, 2018. How was McGlinchey putting together game plans and doing OL instruction instead of Quinn when the first game Quinn coached wasn't even until 5 months after McGlinchey was on an NFL roster? Was he flying in from San Francisco to do film sessions?

If that's actually what Driskell said, then he is an absolute hack.

 

[ulukinatme]

The problem with this kind of logic is that you have to intentionally ignore that he coached all the dudes on last years' line for 3+ years, and they all got better every single year + played extremely well as a unit last year. They were mediocre-to-bad players across the board when he started coaching them... all you have to do is go back to where they were when he started coaching them (ranked #106 in advanced stats) and look where they finished as a Joe Moore Award finalist. And they were all NFL players by the time he was done.

Until someone can cogently explain why Quinn deserves no credit for what he did developing the guys from freshman/underclassmen into the line we saw last year, I'm not really interested in entertaining conspiracy theories on how he "sucks" as a coach.

Quinn's group struggled the last time they reloaded too, took time for them to gel. I never felt like Hiestand's lines ever went through that phase, they always felt pretty solid (At least in pass blocking) after losing a bunch of guys. Even the OL last year had mostly Hiestand original products in it: Eichenberg was a 5th year so he would have had 2 years under Hiestand. Kraemer was a 5th year. Hainsey was a 4 year starter and had a year with Harry. Same with Lugg and Banks. The only one who never studied under Harry was Patterson.

I like to call this the Berne Parmalee effect. Sometimes I believe there's a position coach that is exceptional with his work. Our TEs went from relative unknowns to household names after Parmalee came in with Weis in '05. Every starter from Fasano to Carlson to Kyle Rudolph went on to rack up huge yards and get drafted high in the NFL. Another Parmalee original product, Eifert, also went on to do great things for BK. After the Parmalee guys were all gone? There was Koyack, 'nuff said. Niklas got drafted fairly high, but he was a bust at the next level. Smythe somehow had more receptions in his NFL career than he had in college, but that doesn't say much as it was a short career. Jury is still out on Tommy Tremble and Cole Kmet, but at the very least I feel like those guys did better once Scott Booker was out as TE coach. The point is every starter that Parmalee had a hand in from '05-'12 ended up with outstanding college numbers and each played in the NFL for at least 6 years with one still active (Looks like Eifert was done after last year, just Rudolph now). That's one hell of an impressive run and it's what gave us the moniker of "TE U" for a bit. Was some of that the Weis Pro-style offense in effect? Sure, but that doesn't change the fact Eifert continued the tradition well after Parmalee was gone.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that Hiestand was a hell of a developer, we rarely missed a beat with him from one season to the next...at least in pass blocking. The running game may be a different matter some seasons. Now that Hiestand's guys have all essentially graduated or been drafted we have just Quinn products on the field. He struggled once to get the OL to gel together after a reload, I think we're seeing those same struggles again with this newer group. Whether he gets it together or not we'll see...what we do know is we're struggling through two games and a certain former OL coach has been sitting at home unemployed since New Years Eve 2019.

 

[IrishLax]

Quinn's group struggled the last time they reloaded too, took time for them to gel. I never felt like Hiestand's lines ever went through that phase, they always felt pretty solid (At least in pass blocking) after losing a bunch of guys. Even the OL last year had mostly Hiestand original products in it: Eichenberg was a 5th year so he would have had 2 years under Hiestand. Kraemer was a 5th year. Hainsey was a 4 year starter and had a year with Harry. Same with Lugg and Banks. The only one who never studied under Harry was Patterson.

I like to call this the Berne Parmalee effect. Sometimes I believe there's a position coach that is exceptional with his work. Our TEs went from relative unknowns to household names after Parmalee came in with Weis in '05. Every starter from Fasano to Carlson to Kyle Rudolph went on to rack up huge yards and get drafted high in the NFL. Another Parmalee original product, Eifert, also went on to do great things for BK. After the Parmalee guys were all gone? There was Koyack, 'nuff said. Niklas got drafted fairly high, but he was a bust at the next level. Smythe somehow had more receptions in his NFL career than he had in college, but that doesn't say much as it was a short career. Jury is still out on Tommy Tremble and Cole Kmet, but at the very least I feel like those guys did better once Scott Booker was out as TE coach. The point is every starter that Parmalee had a hand in from '05-'12 ended up with outstanding college numbers and each played in the NFL for at least 6 years with one still active (Looks like Eifert was done after last year, just Rudolph now). That's one hell of an impressive run and it's what gave us the moniker of "TE U" for a bit. Was some of that the Weis Pro-style offense in effect? Sure, but that doesn't change the fact Eifert continued the tradition well after Parmalee was gone.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that Hiestand was a hell of a developer, we rarely missed a beat with him from one season to the next...at least in pass blocking. The running game may be a different matter some seasons. Now that Hiestand's guys have all essentially graduated or been drafted we have just Quinn products on the field. He struggled once to get the OL to gel together after a reload, I think we're seeing those same struggles again with this newer group. Whether he gets it together or not we'll see...what we do know is we're struggling through two games and a certain former OL coach has been sitting at home unemployed since New Years Eve 2019.

Hiestand leaving was because of complaints/allegations with his coaching style. He was a hard ass and considered "abusive" by two players who transferred, one of whom kept a journal in order to facilitate an immediate PT waiver. That's at least what I heard from a very reliable source. He's not coming back to ND, as unfortunate as that is, unless something has changed on that front that makes him no longer considered a liability. He is by a country mile the best ND OL coach of my lifetime.

With that said, I do not buy that because Eichenberg/Kraemer had an early year with Harry he deserves credit for them while Quinn deserves none. They absolutely sucked early in their careers, and only improved under Quinn. Hainsey is the only guy who played competently from the jump. Banks never saw the field and similarly went from wildly inconsistent -> NFL player under Quinn. Hiestand did not leave Quinn a cupboard loaded with developed talent that he has been coasting on. I know that's not what you're saying, but it's been said/implied by many. The truth is that the worst OL managed by Quinn was during an undefeated season -> they made major improvements the following year -> they were one of the best the next year once he didn't have to deal with Long's scheme.

Fast forward two years from now with healthy Fisher - Spindler - ?? - Chan - Alt and everyone is going to think the OL coach is a genius. But right now, there are a lot of guys playing who just are not ready // may never be ready to play top tier football. Is that partially a coaching issue? Maybe. Is it mainly because there are zero quality players in our senior and junior classes? Certainly. I have a feeling Quinn would look just fine if Banks had elected to stay another year and Fisher hadn't gotten hurt.

 

[Sea Turtle]

Hiestand leaving was because of complaints/allegations with his coaching style. He was a hard ass and considered "abusive" by two players who transferred, one of whom kept a journal in order to facilitate an immediate PT waiver. That's at least what I heard from a very reliable source. He's not coming back to ND, as unfortunate as that is, unless something has changed on that front that makes him no longer considered a liability. He is by a country mile the best ND OL coach of my lifetime.

With that said, I do not buy that because Eichenberg/Kraemer had an early year with Harry he deserves credit for them while Quinn deserves none. They absolutely sucked early in their careers, and only improved under Quinn. Hainsey is the only guy who played competently from the jump. Banks never saw the field and similarly went from wildly inconsistent -> NFL player under Quinn. Hiestand did not leave Quinn a cupboard loaded with developed talent that he has been coasting on. I know that's not what you're saying, but it's been said/implied by many. The truth is that the worst OL managed by Quinn was during an undefeated season -> they made major improvements the following year -> they were one of the best the next year once he didn't have to deal with Long's scheme.

Fast forward two years from now with healthy Fisher - Spindler - ?? - Chan - Alt and everyone is going to think the OL coach is a genius. But right now, there are a lot of guys playing who just are not ready // may never be ready to play top tier football. Is that partially a coaching issue? Maybe. Is it mainly because there are zero quality players in our senior and junior classes? Certainly. I have a feeling Quinn would look just fine if Banks had elected to stay another year and Fisher hadn't gotten hurt.

So our players made the program get rid of TWO coaches? Are these coaches being run off wherever they go or are our players whiney and entitled?

 

[GowerND11]

Is Sea Turtle Driskell? Sure fucking sounds like it.

 

[RDU Irish]

Running third stringer at LT your second game of the season on an already short of experience line, when you were starting a freshman game one ..... is all you need to know. I am far from an expert but the OL is a unit that is often only as good as its weakest link. I expect dramatic improvement over the course of the season but those growing pains are going to be immense. Very frustrating to see them blown up by Toledo but I am more frustrated in the defense TBH. We knew OL had Qs, defense was supposed to give them time to gel. Cain Madden also deserves some attention here - supposed to be a run game beast 2nd team All American with 31 starts under his belt.

Any way you slice it, OL is a damn mess and needs fixed ASAP. If they don't we will lose a lot of games and some chairs will be spinning at year end. No excuse with our talent and resources to be 100+ ranked after playing FSU and Toledo.