Offensive Line Thread

[FightingIrishLover7]

I hope a real "source" is the one that fed that "skepticism" to Driskell, just so he'd buy it and act like it's his own hot take and looks like a big dummy come the fall lol.

 

[deise mike]

sarcasm?

Partly.......but also want to be reassured.

 

[Trait Expectations]

Partly.......but also want to be reassured.

Driskell decides on a position and then seeks all info he can to support it. Look at his hot takes when Derrick Allen was transferring out. It was all the coaches fault. Driskell claimed Quinn couldn't develop and 2019 was proof....until 2020 happened. Now the only reason they were a good a line is because they were originally taught by Hiestand (which no longer explains the poor play in 2019). Now he's claiming that Quinn doesn't break down film with the group, that the upper classmen have to lead film review for the younger guys, or something along those lines.

He seems dishonest or, at the very least, inconsistent in his views.

 

[deise mike]

Driskell decides on a position and then seeks all info he can to support it. Look at his hot takes when Derrick Allen was transferring out. It was all the coaches fault. Driskell claimed Quinn couldn't develop and 2019 was proof....until 2020 happened. Now the only reason they were a good a line is because they were originally taught by Hiestand (which no longer explains the poor play in 2019). Now he's claiming that Quinn doesn't break down film with the group, that the upper classmen have to lead film review for the younger guys, or something along those lines.

He seems dishonest or, at the very least, inconsistent in his views.

You are very good to elucidate.

 

[Luckylucci]

Driskell decides on a position and then seeks all info he can to support it. Look at his hot takes when Derrick Allen was transferring out. It was all the coaches fault. Driskell claimed Quinn couldn't develop and 2019 was proof....until 2020 happened. Now the only reason they were a good a line is because they were originally taught by Hiestand (which no longer explains the poor play in 2019). Now he's claiming that Quinn doesn't break down film with the group, that the upper classmen have to lead film review for the younger guys, or something along those lines.

He seems dishonest or, at the very least, inconsistent in his views.

+1.

 

[Polish Leppy 22]

Just curious...what is Heistand doing these days?

 

[ThePiombino]

Just curious...what is Heistand doing these days?

Funding Irish Breakdown apparently...

 

[Irish#1]

Have been listening to Driskell on podcasts for the last couple of days. He's not at all positive about Madden. I hope the coaches know more than he does.

TBH, if you read this board regularly, everyone on here knows more than the coaching staff. It would be naive to think we're the only ones that know more than them. lol

 

[ulukinatme]

Just curious...what is Heistand doing these days?

Heistand or bring Ed Warinner back. The later is at FAU now I think. Warriner helped turn the OL around when Kelly first came in, and he's basically improved the OL at every stop he's been after. Usually correlates to a strong running game too. He may have been a shit recruiter, but he still produced great results. He was part of the miracle Kansas 2007 turn around season too.

 

[Canton_Irish]

Ed Warinner? I wonder what John Latina is up to?

 

[IrishLax]

When Driskell is ragging on a coach, 99% of the time it's because that guy gives other reporters quotes/access but doesn't give any to him. There is a lot of bad blood between certain coaches and Driskell. Driskell also hates being wrong, so when he gets exposed on certain takes (OL play, Long, Rees, Jurkovec, Allen, etc.) he simply waits until that passes and some other data point comes along that he can cherry pick to prove himself "right."

With that being said, the OL is probably going to struggle a bit this year. Not because of bad coaching, but because of mediocre recruiting for a couple years that left the cupboard bare of developed upper classmen. Cain Madden was a GREAT addition and makes me more optimistic that -- barring injury -- the OL will have its crap together.

 

[Trait Expectations]

When Driskell is ragging on a coach, 99% of the time it's because that guy gives other reporters quotes/access but doesn't give any to him. There is a lot of bad blood between certain coaches and Driskell. Driskell also hates being wrong, so when he gets exposed on certain takes (OL play, Long, Rees, Jurkovec, Allen, etc.) he simply waits until that passes and some other data point comes along that he can cherry pick to prove himself "right."

With that being said, the OL is probably going to struggle a bit this year. Not because of bad coaching, but because of mediocre recruiting for a couple years that left the cupboard bare of developed upper classmen. Cain Madden was a GREAT addition and makes me more optimistic that -- barring injury -- the OL will have its crap together.

Yeah, he's already setting them up for failure. He acts like every single one of Harry's lines was top 10 when we all know that wasn't the case, or they'd shit the bed in big games. Driskell is saying the line shouldn't regress because Oklahoma lost 4 linemen a couple years ago and still averaged over 40 pts/game. He really makes some of the strangest cases I've ever seen. I heard him say 12 personnel only got us 24 pts total in our last two games so it's not good enough. lol. Didn't consider who the 12 personnel was, who the QB was, who the support WRs were, just flat out, paraphrase ~ 'that proves ND shouldn't be so committed to 12'

And I don't think I'm being unfair in my assessment of his point. Like his Oklahoma point above, he says ND OL should be able to lose 4 starters and still be a top 10 OL. Was Oklahoma's line top 10? Or was their O-line just good enough to give their playmakers enough time to get separation? Serious question, I haven't looked that up.

 

[ulukinatme]

Yeah, he's already setting them up for failure. He acts like every single one of Harry's lines was top 10 when we all know that wasn't the case, or they'd shit the bed in big games. Driskell is saying the line shouldn't regress because Oklahoma lost 4 linemen a couple years ago and still averaged over 40 pts/game. He really makes some of the strangest cases I've ever seen. I heard him say 12 personnel only got us 24 pts total in our last two games so it's not good enough. lol. Didn't consider who the 12 personnel was, who the QB was, who the support WRs were, just flat out, paraphrase ~ 'that proves ND shouldn't be so committed to 12'

And I don't think I'm being unfair in my assessment of his point. Like his Oklahoma point above, he says ND OL should be able to lose 4 starters and still be a top 10 OL. Was Oklahoma's line top 10? Or was their O-line just good enough to give their playmakers enough time to get separation? Serious question, I haven't looked that up.

Yeah, that's a pretty horrible quote on the Oklahoma hot take. How many Top 10 defenses does Oklahoma face in the super stout Big 12 conference? Even the PAC-12 has more respectable defenses these days I think. Driskell seems a bit...peculiar at times.

 

[BobbyMac]

[TWEET]https://twitter.com/CoachD178/status/1407448664658878472[/TWEET]

 

[ab2cmiller]

I refuse to give Driskell any clicks.

 

[Some Irish Bloke]

I can't stand him, either. I will never click on a Driskell article. On the heels of Madden being named a pre-season All-American by Walter Camp, he has the hot take of "eh, not that high on him." GTFO.

All Jeff Quinn has done is recruit his tail off, and filling Hiestand's shoes is no easy task. I think he's done a fine job so far.

 

[Trait Expectations]

I can't stand him, either. I will never click on a Driskell article. On the heels of Madden being named a pre-season All-American by Walter Camp, he has the hot take of "eh, not that high on him." GTFO.

All Jeff Quinn has done is recruit his tail off, and filling Hiestand's shoes is no easy task. I think he's done a fine job so far.

He's done well but he hasn't blown the doors off yet. If he can follow up last year's haul with another top 5 OL class then he'd get a lot more credit.

2019 - decent class with a number of misses
2020 - small class but big upside
2021 - earlier returns are incredible and looks like a blockbuster class with multiple NFL draft picks
2022 - need to double down and get some early contributors and high ceiling developmental prospects

Missing on Skoronski is still chapping my ass.

I think Quinn has done a fine job and I think Driskell's take is colored by his alliances. It makes his content unbearable and it's why he has had to resort to a tertiary market that he created. But there are a lot of clueless fans that give him a platform so I'm sure he'll find a niche. I wish he'd find a different line of work and just be a fan but I suppose his coaching aspirations are dwindling.

But Quinn still has a lot to prove in regards to recruiting. ND should have a top 3-5 class every single year. We are at the top of NFL production, HOF'ers and contention for the Joe Moore award.

 

[BobbyMac]

He's done well but he hasn't blown the doors off yet. If he can follow up last year's haul with another top 5 OL class then he'd get a lot more credit.

2019 - decent class with a number of misses
2020 - small class but big upside
2021 - earlier returns are incredible and looks like a blockbuster class with multiple NFL draft picks
2022 - need to double down and get some early contributors and high ceiling developmental prospects

Missing on Skoronski is still chapping my ass.

I think Quinn has done a fine job and I think Driskell's take is colored by his alliances. It makes his content unbearable and it's why he has had to resort to a tertiary market that he created. But there are a lot of clueless fans that give him a platform so I'm sure he'll find a niche. I wish he'd find a different line of work and just be a fan but I suppose his coaching aspirations are dwindling.

But Quinn still has a lot to prove in regards to recruiting. ND should have a top 3-5 class every single year. We are at the top of NFL production, HOF'ers and contention for the Joe Moore award.

He does have a lot to prove at ND. He has nothing to prove as an OL coach.

We also unfairly compare him to HH. Harry has McG and Q to stand on bell to bell. He developed other guys' recruits and left recruits for Quinn to develop. Quinn now gets to showcase Patterson (who he hit a bottom of the 9th grand slam on to save HH's '18 stinker) Fish, Rocco, Baker, maybe others but I have little hope he'll be around to see the '22 guys off to the NFL.

 

[BobbyMac]

Oh... and I posted that tweet because I share info. Not a huge BD fan, but I can read and/or listen to content I don't agree with.

I did know it would get a rise out of folks and that's what were looking for here at IE... viewership that leads to discussion.

 

[Trait Expectations]

He does have a lot to prove at ND. He has nothing to prove as an OL coach.

We also unfairly compare him to HH. Harry has McG and Q to stand on bell to bell. He developed other guys' recruits and left recruits for Quinn to develop. Quinn now gets to showcase Patterson (who he hit a bottom of the 9th grand slam on to save HH's '18 stinker) Fish, Rocco, Baker, maybe others but I have little hope he'll be around to see the '22 guys off to the NFL.

You don't think Quinn will be with us for the next 4 years?

And I agree, I don't question his coaching. All of his players have gotten better. It's his recruiting that leaves me in "wait and see" mode despite his single blockbuster year.

 

[zelezo vlk]

Oh... and I posted that tweet because I share info. Not a huge BD fan, but I can read and/or listen to content I don't agree with.

I did know it would get a rise out of folks and that's what were looking for here at IE... viewership that leads to discussion.

You think Freeman won't retain Quinn after he replaces BK?

 

[BobbyMac]

You think Freeman won't retain Quinn after he replaces BK?

 

[BobbyMac]

You don't think Quinn will be with us for the next 4 years?

And I agree, I don't question his coaching. All of his players have gotten better. It's his recruiting that leaves me in "wait and see" mode despite his single blockbuster year.

Quinn no doubt misses more but he goes after better players than HH did.

If Quinn makes it to 6 recruiting classes, I'll lay all my money that he'll have better players both in the ratings game and in real life production than HH produced in his 6 cycles.

 

[NDLS_USMC]

If Quinn makes it to 6 recruiting classes...

Any specific reason you’ve referenced Quinn not making 6 recruiting classes a few times here?

 

[Domina Nostra]

I posted this on the other thread, but...

- Hiestand had some tough recruiting years

- He also had a year or two where he got lucky late in the cycle, saving it late in the game

- Some of the depth charts look better in retrospect because we remember the players based on how they ended up developing, not necessarily based on how good they were at that time (think Alex Bars).

 

[Pops Freshenmeyer]

Because why not? Hiestand was at ND from 2012 through 2017. Here are the players who signed with ND from 2012 forward. This is just a quick and dirty (using 247 composite):

2012
Ronnie Stanley 0.9472
Mark Harrell 0.8794

2013
Hunter Bivin 0.9545
Steve Elmer 0.9467
John Montelus 0.9330
Mike McGlinchey 0.9280
Colin McGovern 0.9209

2014
Quenton Nelson 0.9707
Alex Bars 0.9484
Sam Mustipher 0.9123
Jimmy Byrne 0.8926

2015
Tristen Hoge 0.9585
Trevor Ruhland 0.8738

2016
Tommy Kraemer 0.9835
Liam Eichenberg 0.9614
Parker Boudreaux 0.8802

2017
Robert Hainsey 0.9605
Josh Lugg 0.9443
Aaron Banks 0.9301
Dillan Gibbons 0.8847

2018
Jarrett Patterson 0.8912
John Dirksen 0.8776
Luke Jones 0.8776
Cole Mabry 0.8655

2019
Zeke Correll 0.9578
Quinn Carroll 0.9472
Andrew Kristofic 0.9254
John Olmstead 0.9242

2020
Tosh Baker 0.9549
Michael Carmody 0.9352

2021
Blake Fisher 0.9739
Rocco Spindler 0.9715
Caleb Johnson 0.8958
Joe Alt 0.8864
Pat Coogan 0.8701

 

[BobbyMac]

Any specific reason you’ve referenced Quinn not making 6 recruiting classes a few times here?

Nothing cryptic. He would have to close out the recruiting for the 2024 class. A lot can happen by then.

 

[NDLS_USMC]

Nothing cryptic. He would have to close out the recruiting for the 2024 class. A lot can happen by then.

Got you, thnx for follow-up, Bobby. Congrats on Twitter launch too. Career Arrow Up, baby!!

 

[dublinirish]

[TWEET]https://twitter.com/BigGameBoomer/status/1413186567066243077?s=20[/TWEET]

 

[zelezo vlk]

I wonder if any of Warriner's last 3 stops would take him back lol