'20 MO WR Jordan Johnson (Notre Dame Signee)

[RDU Irish]

This sucks. Really had my hopes up for this kid. I am sure no coincidence that the announcement comes off of a less than pedestrian spring game for him.

I agree with the above comments on spreading more snaps around. You got to work more of these guys in - you really can't get them to execute any plays well enough to get their feet wet? Also comes back to the lack of development due to too many close games - blow people out and keep running up a full offense with the backups after working backups in with starters. Sure JJ may not be that good and not deserving but we have half a dozen other talented WRs that deserve a shot and recruiting gets easier if you know you get some shots early.

 

[ThePiombino]

before everyone freaks out and complains about the staff not getting him on the field, did anyone actually consider, maybe he's just not that good?

Then the staff didn't a very good job with the eval, did they?

 

[ThePiombino]

Unless most were keeping it to themselves I don’t see much of those not a fit sentiment shared pre-him showing up to campus. He went to the type of catholic academic school ND covets. The academic stuff popped up pretty quickly in the fall but seems a bit revisionist to question the fit from the beginning

where does everyone’s optimism shift now? Colzie for me

Styles bro

 

[FightingIrishLover7]

Then the staff didn't a very good job with the eval, did they?

Ugh, I mean, so did the rest of the world, apparently. Lol

 

[T-Boone]

Everyone saying it turns out he wasnt very good or he had academic issues what about every other young wide reciever? Xavier Watts also no good, Lenzy, Keys, Boykin, Claypool. That walk on kid Salerno was getting catches ahead of Watts. WTH.

 

[Redbar]

Whatever the reason, I hate to see any setback in a young man’s plan especially when it comes to Notre Dame students. Sometimes a step back leads to two steps forward...hoping that for JJ.
At the same time, I do agree the rotation of players who are going to get snaps must expand, especially at the WR position.

 

[Polish Leppy 22]

On JJ, I pretty torn on this one. I do believe that a majority of this was due to fit. I've said for awhile, for a lot of prospects, ND is better in theory than it is practice. Meaning the idea of getting an ND degree and playing high level football seems too good to pass up, but you still have to do the work in the classroom. And, it seems like he struggled with that from the start. But, the same thing happened with Botelho and Elston got him to come back. How and why would be the questions I'd ask. I'd bet it has something to do with his buy-in for the role they had planned for him. Which leads to my next point.

We simply have to play more WR's. Because while it may not have mattered here with JJ, it most certainly could or will with others. And it's the guys that are supposed to be at ND that we can't afford to lose because we couldn't get guys on the field for another 50-100 snaps over a 13 game season. Would it matter JJ played another 50-100 snaps last year? Probably not. But, we cannot have that be a part of these decisions. We have 2 WR's from the '19 and '20 classes. You lose Watts and it's just 1.

The reason I said I was torn is because while it sucks to lose JJ and I think this is a problem with the program (WR snaps), I'm not sure this has a meaningful impact to our roster. Short term this is Austin's team he just needs to get healthy. Keys might be the most arrow up guy on the team right now. And then we fill in the space with Lenzy, Davis, Wilkins, etc. And, I'm not sure it really hurts the future. Like I've been posting his thread. I think we all didn't give Colzie the credit he deserved. The combo of him and Styles in the same class is the best duo Kelly has recruited at WR during his entire tenure at ND. Following Styles and Colzie's progress will be interesting as that could answer the question of, will they be ready to take over as Sophomores? I seem to think they will.

This times 1000. Even for the talented WRs who have the "traits", these kids need to be in the mix/ rotation early on if they belong. The narrative now is that even if you're a 5 star, top 100 WR, you aint seeing the field at ND until you're a junior. That doesn't mean start every freshman. It means get them on the field in some form or fashion.

 

[calvegas04]

I would say next man up but I dont even think he was the next man up

 

[tussin]

This times 1000. Even for the talented WRs who have the "traits", these kids need to be in the mix/ rotation early on if they belong. The narrative now is that even if you're a 5 star, top 100 WR, you aint seeing the field at ND until you're a junior. That doesn't mean start every freshman. It means get them on the field in some form or fashion.

Yup... it feels like receiver would be the one position where it would be easier to work in the underclassmen. I don't know my ass from my elbow when it comes to football but I'd have to imagine you can put together packages of more vertical routes for highly rated kids that can't grasp the entire playbook.

 

[T-Boone]

It was definately a classy break up letter from JJ. Hope he goes somewhere good and dominates.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

Here's the /r/cfb thread on JJ's transfer announcement. Nothing in there we didn't already know, but someone claiming to be a friend of his adds a little context.

 

[Ndaccountant]

Yup... it feels like receiver would be the one position where it would be easier to work in the underclassmen. I don't know my ass from my elbow when it comes to football but I'd have to imagine you can put together packages of more vertical routes for highly rated kids that can't grasp the entire playbook.

It hasn't always been this way. Go back to 2013. It was a strange year with Golson and all that, but you had TJ Jones who was the go to guy that year, ended up 70 catches, over 1100 yards. Daniels was the big time junior recruit that was expected to perform and you still had Niklas and Koyack at the TE spot. The play calls that year were basically 50/50 rushing attempts and passing attempts. Yet, even with all of that, you had meaningful playing time from Chris Brown (Soph) Corey Robinson (Frosh) and Will Fuller (Frosh). The three of them combined for 30 catches, 526 yds and 3 TD's, all playing in approx 50% of the games. Years later you had Stepherson making an immediate dent. Tori Hunter Jr started contributing as a Soph. You can name more I am sure.

Last year you had the following WR catches, when ND was 58% run / 42% pass split based on attempts.
Javon - 42
Ben - 29
Davis - 24
Lenzy - 7
Wilkens - 7
Keys - 5
Austin - 1

But in 2019, the run / pass split was closer to 50/50 and the WR touches were still dominated by the older guys with only Lenzy really making a dent.

I truly believe the lack of "young" WR's making contributions recently is 100% tied to the short comings of Book and coaching. We know taking care of the football has been a top priority and that is one of the reasons Book got the job. But Book had his "safe / security blanket" reads/players and went to them....a lot. He never appeared comfortable taking risks and having your young WR's try for some big plays is a risk. I am hoping that as we turn the page to a new QB, we see a much more even balance of play calling and use of the entire field in the passing game. If we do that, I think the young WR's will have a chance to make a small, but immediate impact. That is what we should be doing at least.

 

[NDdomer2]

Everyone tends to want to saying "this" is the reason and it's almost always a compilation of issues.

I had a coach tell me once "you can't compartmentalize". It's gotta be same effort every day in all things.

If JJ was having effort issues with the books that likely means he had effort issues in film, in practice, in diet, etc.

The coaches aren't in the business of not playing kids who deserve to play. There's legitimate reasons when athletes don't see the field.

 

[Luckylucci]

Yes, expanding the passing game cannot be overstated. More guys need to be involved with actual receptions not just snaps. And, I think folks are going to be like WTF have we been doing this whole time with Coan at QB. I don’t expect his stats to be other worldly but it’s going to look/feel different.

 

[T-Boone]

If JJ was having effort issues with the books that likely means he had effort issues in film, in practice, in diet, etc.

The coaches aren't in the business of not playing kids who deserve to play. There's legitimate reasons when athletes don't see the field.

Talk of his academics is pure speculation. All we know for sure is he didnt play as a freshman and playing time is probably a big factor in why he left. He didnt play because BK decided he wasnt good enough to play which is fine except he decides this about almost all freshmen. That is going to be a big problem with recruiting going forward and also retaining recruits. BK needs to play the freshmen WRs this year. If it happens every year the problem cant be the players.

 

[Dale]

He didnt play because BK decided he wasnt good enough to play which is fine except he decides this about almost all freshman

are you saying all freshman WRs or all freshman period? Important distinction because one holds some weight whereas one has been debunked constantly

 

[fightingirish26]

Talk of his academic is pure speculation. All we know for sure is he didnt play as a freshman and playing time is probably a big factor in why he left. He didnt play because BK decided he wasnt good enough to play which is fine except he decides this about almost all freshman. That is going to be a big problem with recruiting going forward and also retaining recruits. BK needs to play the freshmen WRs this year. If it happens every year the problem cant be the players.

Frankly the academic talk is more than just speculation. PT probably the biggest factor here but people aren't just throwing reckless speculation around when it comes to classroom struggles.

 

[NDdomer2]

Talk of his academic is pure speculation. All we know for sure is he didnt play as a freshman and playing time is probably a big factor in why he left. He didnt play because BK decided he wasnt good enough to play which is fine except he decides this about almost all freshman. That is going to be a big problem with recruiting going forward and also retaining recruits. BK needs to play the freshmen WRs this year. If it happens every year the problem cant be the players.

Frankly the academic talk is more than just speculation. PT probably the biggest factor here but people aren't just throwing reckless speculation around when it comes to classroom struggles.

it most certainly isn't pure speculation. I'm like 95% sure Kelly mentioned he had off field items to take care of last year.

His own HS classmate is posting on reddit that he likely isn't getting it done in classroom.

Then just today ISD is saying he might not even been eligible next season. https://irishsportsdaily.com/s/14892...ces-transfer/1

 

[T-Boone]

are you saying all freshman WRs or all freshman period? Important distinction because one holds some weight whereas one has been debunked constantly

Yes, WR's.

 

[Trait Expectations]

Talk of his academics is pure speculation. All we know for sure is he didnt play as a freshman and playing time is probably a big factor in why he left. He didnt play because BK decided he wasnt good enough to play which is fine except he decides this about almost all freshmen. That is going to be a big problem with recruiting going forward and also retaining recruits. BK needs to play the freshmen WRs this year. If it happens every year the problem cant be the players.

BK didn't decide shit by himself. Who is driving this narrative? I see it pop up everywhere that, "You don't want to be in BKs dog house" or "If BK decides you ain't gonna play, doesn't matter how good you are". Kelly has played every player that could maintain good academic standing and was capable of helping us win. He went to great lengths to keep Stepherson on the field. He happily played Tyree and Mayer over more established players because they were simply better.

No matter how high our expectations were for JJ, he just wasn't an immediate difference maker. I have no doubt he can have a good career at Missouri or wherever he ends up but he wasn't a bonafide stud upon entry. Same goes for Watts and Brunelle (who was also injured).

Maybe Lo Styles will help quash this line of thinking. I'm sure then people will say, "BK is finally willing to play freshman after it cost him". Kelly is in the business of winning, he's not overly loyal to veterans. Veterans have a lot going in their favor: Additional years in the playbook, years of S&C, more experience. This is not rocket science.

Go and look up the 5-6 WRs rated above JJ in his class. Only 1 or 2 made a splash. Look at that every year, the top 10 WRs produce some guys ready to contribute and others aren't. Pete Sampson ranked the top 10 WRs between Ohio State and Notre Dame and I think it was the first 7-8 were tOSU, then JJ, then tOSU. Meaning he would've been the eighth highest rated WR on their roster. That's how you find freshman/sophomore contributors, you stack a bunch of them. We haven't been doing that.

 

[Irish#1]

We are in an era of college sports (not just football) where top skill talent expects to play and contribute early or transfer. To the extent that ND does not accommodate these types of recruits (which we can debate ad nauseum), then they will need to remain active on the backend grabbing high-floor contributors off the transfer portal. The death nail for ND is a world in which they don't play the young-ins and they also aren't a presence in the grad transfer game. Recent years suggest that this won't be the case but just throwing it out there.

You're right. The culture is changing. NCAA FB is turning into the NFL with the portal being the equivalent of free agency. However, from everything I'm reading, it doesn't sound like he is transferring because he thinks he should be starting. Is he a 5 star or not? At the moment know one knows until he gets on the field. Yet, two years should have been enough time to learn the playbook.

 

[BleedBlueGold]

BK didn't decide shit by himself. Who is driving this narrative? I see it pop up everywhere that, "You don't want to be in BKs dog house" or "If BK decides you ain't gonna play, doesn't matter how good you are". Kelly has played every player that could maintain good academic standing and was capable of helping us win. He went to great lengths to keep Stepherson on the field. He happily played Tyree and Mayer over more established players because they were simply better.

No matter how high our expectations were for JJ, he just wasn't an immediate difference maker. I have no doubt he can have a good career at Missouri or wherever he ends up but he wasn't a bonafide stud upon entry. Same goes for Watts and Brunelle (who was also injured).

Maybe Lo Styles will help quash this line of thinking. I'm sure then people will say, "BK is finally willing to play freshman after it cost him". Kelly is in the business of winning, he's not overly loyal to veterans. Veterans have a lot going in their favor: Additional years in the playbook, years of S&C, more experience. This is not rocket science.

Go and look up the 5-6 WRs rated above JJ in his class. Only 1 or 2 made a splash. Look at that every year, the top 10 WRs produce some guys ready to contribute and others aren't. Pete Sampson ranked the top 10 WRs between Ohio State and Notre Dame and I think it was the first 7-8 were tOSU, then JJ, then tOSU. Meaning he would've been the eighth highest rated WR on their roster. That's how you find freshman/sophomore contributors, you stack a bunch of them. We haven't been doing that.

ALL. OF. THIS.

 

[BabyIrish]

My biggest gripe with the staff last year was wide receiver development. There was no reason to only have three receivers ready to play. I get Austin and Lenzy but that was a perfect time to get the three freshmen ready to go and some playing time. It didn’t have to be Johnson it could have been watts and Brunelle.

 

[dad4aa]

You're right. The culture is changing. NCAA FB is turning into the NFL with the portal being the equivalent of free agency. However, from everything I'm reading, it doesn't sound like he is transferring because he thinks he should be starting. Is he a 5 star or not? At the moment know one knows until he gets on the field. Yet, two years should have been enough time to learn the playbook.

Isn't he a true freshman and only been here 1 year? Even if he enrolled early he would have been here for an extra few months and not two years. Plus, if he was having some struggles in the classroom, that will take time away from studying the playbook to actual studying.

 

[NDRock]

BK didn't decide shit by himself. Who is driving this narrative? I see it pop up everywhere that, "You don't want to be in BKs dog house" or "If BK decides you ain't gonna play, doesn't matter how good you are". Kelly has played every player that could maintain good academic standing and was capable of helping us win. He went to great lengths to keep Stepherson on the field. He happily played Tyree and Mayer over more established players because they were simply better.

No matter how high our expectations were for JJ, he just wasn't an immediate difference maker. I have no doubt he can have a good career at Missouri or wherever he ends up but he wasn't a bonafide stud upon entry. Same goes for Watts and Brunelle (who was also injured).

Maybe Lo Styles will help quash this line of thinking. I'm sure then people will say, "BK is finally willing to play freshman after it cost him". Kelly is in the business of winning, he's not overly loyal to veterans. Veterans have a lot going in their favor: Additional years in the playbook, years of S&C, more experience. This is not rocket science.

Go and look up the 5-6 WRs rated above JJ in his class. Only 1 or 2 made a splash. Look at that every year, the top 10 WRs produce some guys ready to contribute and others aren't. Pete Sampson ranked the top 10 WRs between Ohio State and Notre Dame and I think it was the first 7-8 were tOSU, then JJ, then tOSU. Meaning he would've been the eighth highest rated WR on their roster. That's how you find freshman/sophomore contributors, you stack a bunch of them. We haven't been doing that.

For me, it's not about having these highly rated playmakers "make a splash" right away. It's about keeping them engaged and motivated (and not leaving the program). Kids have options these days. Taking a hard line with them isn't always the best course of action. Maybe if he got some playing time, in a season where we dominated a good portion of the schedule, it would have kept him motivated both on and off the field. Might be easier to get motivated in the classroom if you're finding some success on the field.

It's easy to coach the kids that come in super motivated and do well in the classroom. The only possible way for ND to get to the next step is finding ways to recruit and develop elite talent. Sometimes that takes a different approach than taking a hard line.

Obviously, I don't really know what went on with JJ but ND obviously did a poor job because the kid is already leaving. Either they did a poor job in the recruitment process of identifying his fit or did a poor job helping him adjust and keeping him "bought in". Either way it's a loss.

 

[PANDFAN]

Just 1 more thing......if you go back and read my previous posts.....he was NEVER some physical specimen, he NEVER had high production #'s because he was in a run dominant offense.....never understood why he was a 5* to begin....i think people were just star gazing and not sure what the recruiting sites saw ...like i said, this isn't sour grapes...it is what it is

 

[dublinirish]

[TWEET]https://twitter.com/andrewsmith38/status/1389311567943012352?s=20[/TWEET]

 

[StPaul_Irish]

My biggest gripe with the staff last year was wide receiver development. There was no reason to only have three receivers ready to play. I get Austin and Lenzy but that was a perfect time to get the three freshmen ready to go and some playing time. It didn’t have to be Johnson it could have been watts and Brunelle.

Only 3 were ready?

Austin: Ready to play but hurt
Lenzy: Ready to play but hurt
Keys: Ready to play but hurt
Brunelle: Hurt almost all year
Watts: I don't know... But if Driskell said he was ready, then he most likely wasn't.

Javon: Ready to play... Played
Skow: Ready to play... Played
Wilkens: Ready to play...Played
Davis: Ready to play.... Played

 

[Irishize]

[TWEET]https://twitter.com/andrewsmith38/status/1389311567943012352?s=20[/TWEET]

That’s most of CFB twitter regrading P5 fanbases when one thing goes wrong in the offseason.

 

[Rogue219]

Yeah, I'm thinking maybe he just wasn't that good at football to begin with and a bunch of people working for paysites got it wrong. It's a great excuse to bitch about the coaching staff for a lot of people, but in the end nobody should really lose a bit of sleep over it. I'm a players first fan but there comes a point where some responsbility on and off the field falls on the player.