Zahm Hall just got axed

[IrishLax]

Shut down because of litany of issue, haven’t found full text anywhere but this captures a lot of the letter to Zahm residents - [TWEET]https://twitter.com/ndsmcobserver/status/1371630249121878028?s=21[/TWEET]

 

[dad4aa]

Apparently big protest to open it back up is going on right now on campus.

 

[Irish YJ]

Apparently big protest to open it back up is going on right now on campus.

All them Zahmbies?

Perhaps they should all do an early streak in protest.

 

[Redbar]

Sounds like they need to work on their traits. For the record Holy Cross Hall was closed because it was 100 years old and a fire trap, not because we weren’t RKG’s! Go Hogs!

 

[notredomer23]

I mean it's not like the student section chants "fuck you Zahm" for no reason

 

[MNIrishman]

I shouted all sorts of things about Zahm but this pisses me off.

 

[GowerND11]

Ole Ole Ole Ole....

 

[ResLife Hero]

This sucks. I was lucky enough to get assigned to Zahm as a freshman, and while it has it's quirks, the sense of community was special. The parties and pranks were only a small part of actually living in Zahm, and some of my best friends are still the randos who landed there with me for orientation. I saw that start to slip a little when Fr. Dan left and they put a grad student in as rector, but I didn't think it would deteriorate like this.

 

[BeauBenken]

From what I gathered reading social media comments, there's a severe distrust between Zahm and the female student population.

 

[Rogue219]

I assume you can only understand the dorm life at Notre Dame if you went to school there. I couldn't wait to get out of the dorms where I went and made a deal with my parents I'd do two years in the dorms and then move off campus my junior year. I hated living in a dorm more than anything in my college experience.

 

[dublinirish]

somebody explain the culture at Zahm to me lol

 

[MNIrishman]

I assume you can only understand the dorm life at Notre Dame if you went to school there. I couldn't wait to get out of the dorms where I went and made a deal with my parents I'd do two years in the dorms and then move off campus my junior year. I hated living in a dorm more than anything in my college experience.

Dorm culture is such an important part of the ND experience. It's like going to Caltech but hating nerd culture, or going to Alabama if you hate incest. Why choose ND if you felt that way?

 

[Irish du Nord]

From what I gathered reading social media comments, there's a severe distrust between Zahm and the female student population.

This reputation surely exists, but I gotta say (even as a non-Zahm resident) that it may not have been accurate in reality. I remember hearing in the last 5 years that Zahm had the highest rate of GreenDot certification on campus. They were definitely trying to turn the reputation around, and while I have no statistical evidence, it seemed like the rate of Title IX incidents was no higher in Zahm than any other Men's dorm. From what I am hearing, the bigger issue was vandalism.

 

[ab2cmiller]

Dorm culture is such an important part of the ND experience. It's like going to Caltech but hating nerd culture, or going to Alabama if you hate incest. Why choose ND if you felt that way?

He didn't go to Notre Dame

 

[GowerND11]

I assume you can only understand the dorm life at Notre Dame if you went to school there. I couldn't wait to get out of the dorms where I went and made a deal with my parents I'd do two years in the dorms and then move off campus my junior year. I hated living in a dorm more than anything in my college experience.

That's just it, it's different at Notre Dame. I didn't go, but I was at HCC my freshman year while one of my best friends from HS went to Notre Dame. He lived in Sorin College all 4 years, and all his buddies are still super close. I was lucky to spend a lot of time with them and consider many to be friends now too. When you couple the fact that you stay in the same hall all four years, there is no Greek life, and that there is enormous amount of history, tradition, rivalries, quirks, etc. within the halls at Notre Dame it's really just different than any other college.

 

[Rogue219]

He didn't go to Notre Dame

I thought this was rather clear in the post, but evidently not, so thank you for clarifying. I figured the "where I went part" would've been the absolute give away.

I went to a state school where you had to live in the dorms as a freshman or sophomore if it was your first year on campus. The culture there was you did 1-2 years max, then most got out and lived off campus in a house or apartment.

A couple of guys I went to high school with went to ND. They did the dorm thing for a year or two and then moved off campus. It wasn't for them.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

somebody explain the culture at Zahm to me lol

Wannabe frat boys. Obnoxious pranks, vandalism and debauchery.

In undergrad, I lived all four years in Keenan, so I had front-row seats for that toxic culture from '02-'06. The only real fight I've ever been in was with some douche bags from Zahm. Apologies to the good Zahmbies here, but good riddance to the place.

 

[IrishLax]

I assume you can only understand the dorm life at Notre Dame if you went to school there. I couldn't wait to get out of the dorms where I went and made a deal with my parents I'd do two years in the dorms and then move off campus my junior year. I hated living in a dorm more than anything in my college experience.

Dorm life at Notre Dame is a de facto frat that is inclusive rather than exclusive. You have parties, dances, sports teams, etc. all run through your dorm. Some of the most memorable events at ND (Fisher Regatta, Keenan Revue, etc.) are all put on by dorms. They also mandate random roommates freshman year to get people out of their comfort zone and socializing. I think it's a pretty different experience relative to virtually all other colleges and frankly its one of the best things about ND.

 

[dublinirish]

what did Zahm do?

 

[Rack Em]

somebody explain the culture at Zahm to me lol

Zahm is gay. That’s as simple as I can put it.

 

[Rack Em]

Wannabe frat boys. Obnoxious pranks, vandalism and debauchery.

In undergrad, I lived all four years in Keenan, so I had front-row seats for that toxic culture from '02-'06. The only real fight I've ever been in was with some douche bags from Zahm. Apologies to the good Zahmbies here, but good riddance to the place.

I disagree. The ND dorms need a good antagonist and Zahm has been a perpetual one.

 

[SouthSideChiDomer]

I assume you can only understand the dorm life at Notre Dame if you went to school there. I couldn't wait to get out of the dorms where I went and made a deal with my parents I'd do two years in the dorms and then move off campus my junior year. I hated living in a dorm more than anything in my college experience.

Don't think of it like a dorm. Its really a residential college. They weren't originally designed as such, so they don't fit the model perfectly, but the general idea is the same. There are tables in the dining halls for the dorms so you always have someone to eat with. The majority of the intramural sports you will play will be based on your dorm. There are year long competitions surrounding the dorms. You learn songs and chants and a history of your dorm. Everyone can tell you the famous names of the people who used to live in their dorm, with some even knowing the exact room. It really is nothing like a normal dorm and the fact that we still call them dorms doesn't seem to do them justice.

 

[SouthSideChiDomer]

I disagree. The ND dorms need a good antagonist and Zahm has been a perpetual one.

I was going to say the same thing lol. The competition starts now to see who the new worst men's dorm will be.

 

[SouthSideChiDomer]

It sucks that the dorm has to be shut down, but I'm honestly kind of surprised they lasted this long.

I feel like there is always some problem with at least one dorm that the administration has to deal with. Sometimes its solved by kicking students off campus, but sometimes it requires a leadership change in the dorm. I've seen them over correct and that had a whole different set of problems. But generally things do change. Except for Zahm. It seems like no matter the change, Zahm still did Zahm things. Maybe some of that is just perception due to them generally not making a ton of friends, but apparently enough was still happening that it was getting back to the administration.

Again, its terrible for all the guys, and especially any who are just ending up as collateral damage in this. But it seems like the only way to truly make sure the current Zahm culture goes away is to not bring any more freshmen into it. It really doesn't solve the problem in the immediate future because its just going to move off campus, but its also no longer letting the problem keep going.

Zahm will probably be back in the future, though with the current split of dorms, it might be as a women's hall.

 

[ResLife Hero]

The counterpoint to the "Zahm kept being Zahm" comments is that that's as much on the other dorms as Zahm. Dorms are randomly assigned right? So then imagine being a kid, like me, who didn't grow up on the ND folklore showing up for frosh O and every dorm chanting "Ole Ole Ole Zahm's gay" and being told we were assholes even though we literally just showed up 3 days ago. My class (2010) was very tame, and I didn't see anything that would have warranted shutting the dorm down, but let's not act like Zahm wasn't shit on left and right. Keenan had a sign during my freshman move in that said "rapists parking" pointing to our offloading site. Some of it we earned, and we tended to aim for a certain level of humorous antagonism (never assault or anything above shaving cream on a statue), but we were a brotherhood, and it was really cool while it lasted.

 

[Irish YJ]

The counterpoint to the "Zahm kept being Zahm" comments is that that's as much on the other dorms as Zahm. Dorms are randomly assigned right? So then imagine being a kid, like me, who didn't grow up on the ND folklore showing up for frosh O and every dorm chanting "Ole Ole Ole Zahm's gay" and being told we were assholes even though we literally just showed up 3 days ago. My class (2010) was very tame, and I didn't see anything that would have warranted shutting the dorm down, but let's not act like Zahm wasn't shit on left and right. Keenan had a sign during my freshman move in that said "rapists parking" pointing to our offloading site. Some of it we earned, and we tended to aim for a certain level of humorous antagonism (never assault or anything above shaving cream on a statue), but we were a brotherhood, and it was really cool while it lasted.

LOL, so you had both homophobes and fems targeting Zahmbies. Some might say that 's bullying and just perpetuated the rep and behavior in what is a totally random assignment environment.

ND doesn't seem like a very Christian place....

Every college needs a heel.

 

[IrishLax]

The counterpoint to the "Zahm kept being Zahm" comments is that that's as much on the other dorms as Zahm. Dorms are randomly assigned right? So then imagine being a kid, like me, who didn't grow up on the ND folklore showing up for frosh O and every dorm chanting "Ole Ole Ole Zahm's gay" and being told we were assholes even though we literally just showed up 3 days ago. My class (2010) was very tame, and I didn't see anything that would have warranted shutting the dorm down, but let's not act like Zahm wasn't shit on left and right. Keenan had a sign during my freshman move in that said "rapists parking" pointing to our offloading site. Some of it we earned, and we tended to aim for a certain level of humorous antagonism (never assault or anything above shaving cream on a statue), but we were a brotherhood, and it was really cool while it lasted.

I feel like there are a lot of psychological principles in play. Nature vs nurture, self-fulfilling prophecies, etc. Zahm curated a culture of being weird and crazy that goes back decades and that was passed down to each successive class. It was then reinforced through traditions and activities. Just compare it to other north quad dorms... Keenan is famous for a comedy sketch show, Stanford for the Pirate Dance, St. Ed's the Yacht Dance.... Zahm for running naked through buildings while people are trying to study for exams.

I was in school in a similar time to you, and I can definitively say that Zahm was not "out of control" back then. If anybody was, it was probably Alumni from a binge drinking standpoint. Stuff must've escalated in the past decade or so to get to the point of them shutting down the dorm.

 

[NDVirginia19]

I think there must have been a time in the somewhat recent past (like mid 00s) where Zahm probably had a bad run of bad eggs who turned the reputation of Zahm as being prankster annoying frat guys into the "rape culture" that many people on twitter were discussing. During my time as a student (2015-2019) we would get emails for every sexual assault reported with a date and a general location (ie: North Quad mens dorm, West Quad women's dorm) and it didn't seem to me like North Quad Men's dorm was statistically more likely to happen. I lived in Alumni but I knew so Many dudes from Zahm who were great dudes. IrishLax is certainly right about Alumni's drinking culture (wake it shake it) and I agree wholeheartedly with Rack Em, we need an antagonist.

If you know anything about the recent ND campus life changes, Erin Hoffman Harding has been keying in on making a shit ton of changes to the whole system and really, in many of the students' perspectives, ruining the culture of dorms on campus. They seem to be trying to make the dorm experience in each hall as equal as possible while also doing away with many of the traditions that they deem problematic.

 

[dublinirish]

There are year long competitions surrounding the dorms. .

so like Hogwarts?

 

[IrishLax]

so like Hogwarts?

As a freshman, you also get assigned to your dorm by the Pope's miter.