2016 Presidential Horse Race

[wizards8507]

It's pretty simple. If they're not illegal immigrants, they are either here legally or they are US citizens. The constitution guarantees those with citizenship free speech, even the right to speech with which you may disagree. While I don't condone the violence, they have every right to protest the **** Trump has been saying.

And you showed your cards when you included white guys with a Mexican flag saying "**** Trump" in your condemnation. If you think the protests are over the single issue of immigration, you are sadly mistaken. The protests are over the multiple racist, derogatory, and insulting statements which Trump has used to court the Republican base and the insane statements he's made regarding how to conduct foreign affairs.

I'll try to make this very simple. I never said that there aren't legitimate problems with Trump's platform. Of course there are, as I've articulated several times myself. I can't stand the man and I think he'll be a terrible president.

That said, you're delusional if you think the people showing up to these rallies with Mexican flags are there for any reason other than opposition to border security. Of course that's why they're there. I know it's hard to look at your own side critically, but these protestors WANT illegal immigration, plain and simple. It's naive to think otherwise.

And spare me the "Trump is racist" crap. This community is above that kind of rhetoric. I grant that Trump is tone deaf on how to speak about race, but racism is hate and he's not a hateful man.

Also, the Constitution protects the right to PEACEABLY assemble. When you start literally setting shit on fire and getting in people's faces with "FUCK YOU PUTA," that's not protected speech.

 

[gkIrish]

There was some discussion earlier about loyalties of Mexican Americans so i wanted to chime in.

Immigrants, whether they are Mexican or Greek or Chinese are absolutely more loyal to their birth country. I'd say it's almost unanimously true. I don't have any sources to back me but growing up in a community and city where immigrants made up at least 10% of the population I can assure you it has been true in my experience.

 

[dshans]

At the Trump rally in SB the protesters were waving Mexican flags. It was clear which country they were loyal to (a country they liked so much that they left it). Maybe Trump supporters are sick of all this? ...

So ... are you also sick of people displaying and waving the flag of Ireland on St. Patrick's Day and at Notre Dame football games?

I know that a few of my relatives entered the US from Ireland illegally through Canada.

A woman I know in Miami was a Cuban national. She and her father were technically "wetbacks" in that they left Cuba for Mexico and then crossed into Texas without "papers." As refugees from the Castro government they were granted special status. He was artist-in-residence for Dade County.

Perhaps The Donald will propose building a uuge moat, say the size of the Atlantic ocean, to keep those pesky Drumpfs out.

 

[Legacy]

What Muhammad Ali Once Said About Donald Trump’s Muslim Ban Proposal

 

[Irish YJ]

So ... are you also sick of people displaying and waving the flag of Ireland on St. Patrick's Day and at Notre Dame football games?

I know that a few of my relatives entered the US from Ireland illegally through Canada.

A woman I know in Miami was a Cuban national. She and her father were technically "wetbacks" in that they left Cuba for Mexico and then crossed into Texas without "papers." As refugees from the Castro government they were granted special status. He was artist-in-residence for Dade County.

Perhaps The Donald will propose building a uuge moat, say the size of the Atlantic ocean, to keep those pesky Drumpfs out.

I grew up in an Italian neighborhood in the 70s. We were certainly proud of our heritage, but we were proud to be American's too. We absolutely LOVED Merica, were US first, and made no bones about it. We were not interested in us against the US, or pushing an Italian way of life. Same way with the Irish hood a few miles away. The old timers that came off the boat typically fought in the wars for the US, and were very prideful people. They, and their children would not take social aid even if they qualified. The family and hood stepped in to help.

I know there are lots of immigrants that come here and love the US, but there are also those that come and are not here to embrace the American Way. They'd prefer to shift the American way and/or take advantage of the benefits of America. Not all, but some.

 

[dshans]

I know there are lots of immigrants that come here and love the US, but there are also those that come and are not here to embrace the American Way. They'd prefer to shift the American way and/or take advantage of the benefits of America. Not all, but some.

If nothing else, please explain "The American Way."

There are many examples of "within but without."

The Amish live and coexist with a simple life.

Hassidic Jews coexist (with a few undeniable "bumps") with a restricted life.

There are still Mormon sects that ascribe to the multiple wife concept for men.

Some are/were "legal," some were not. The common ground is the effort, the opportunity to strive, survive and thrive.

Is this not The American Way?

 

[Irish YJ]

If nothing else, please explain "The American Way."

There are many examples of "within but without."

The Amish live and coexist with a simple life.

Hassidic Jews coexist (with a few undeniable "bumps") with a restricted life.

There are still Mormon sects that ascribe to the multiple wife concept for men.

Some are/were "legal," some were not. The common ground is the effort, the opportunity to strive, survive and thrive.

Is this not The American Way?

I personally define it with an old school attitude. Life, liberty, pursuit of happiness as it pertains to the constitution and the way this country was created. Capitalism with a moral backbone and strong sense of community. The "way" is hard working, honest, law abiding, tax paying, charity giving (as oppose to automatic government charity), nation loving, with a desire to be the best at everything and set a bar for the rest of the world.

In terms of the above, while all of those groups are very different and have their own idiosyncrasies, hard to compare them with the current immigration challenges the US is facing now.

 

[EddytoNow]

I personally define it with an old school attitude. Life, liberty, pursuit of happiness as it pertains to the constitution and the way this country was created. Capitalism with a moral backbone and strong sense of community. The "way" is hard working, honest, law abiding, tax paying, charity giving (as oppose to automatic government charity), nation loving, with a desire to be the best at everything and set a bar for the rest of the world.

In terms of the above, while all of those groups are very different and have their own idiosyncrasies, hard to compare them with the current immigration challenges the US is facing now.

Since the discussion has centered upon Mexican-Americans, I will limit my comments to that group. Using your criteria for the "American Way", Mexican-Americans are prime examples of the American-Way. They exemplify everything you list.

1. Hard-Working: Mexican-Americans are very hard working. They willingly accept some of the jobs with the longest hours and hardest working conditions. What other ethnic group displays a willingness to work long hours planting and harvesting produce?

2. Honest: Mexican-Americans are as honest as they come. There is not a shred of evidence that Mexican-Americans are prone to dishonesty at a greater level than any other ethnic group.

3. Law-Abiding: Mexican-Americans are as law-abiding as any other ethnic group. Granted. There are exceptions in all ethnic groups, but Mexican-Americans are no more criminals than any other group.

4. Tax-Paying: Mexican-Americans pay their fair share of taxes. Most likely a higher percentage of their income than Donald Trump.

5. Charity Giving: Mexican-Americans are probably more charitable than most groups. Charity begins at home and Mexican-Americans do not abandon their elders to nursing homes and other residential holding tanks to the same extent as other ethnic groups. They are also predominantly Catholic and contribute regular to their church and its charitable works.

6. Nation Loving: Mexican-Americans love the country. That is why they or their descendants came here in the first place. But love of country doesn't mean blindly waving the American flag at a Trump rally. Love of country means standing up for those beliefs and doctrines that make America strong. Rallying against an anti-immigrant candidate who denigrates women and others is supporting what the nation stands for.

7. Setting the Bar High: Mexican-Americans do not oppose America's greatness. they came here to be a part of it. But claiming "I'm going to make America great again" doesn't do anything to make America great. Standing up against racist comments, opposition to the denigration of women and minorities, and resisting those who express a willingness to start a nuclear war. Those are actions that will lead to making an already great America into an even better America.

If Mexican-Americans are in the forefront of those protesting at Trump's rallies, they have every right to be doing so. After all, they are one of the groups being singled out by Trump as anti-American. If the angry white man is going to support Trump, they must be given someone to blame for their stagnant economic condition. Trump has told them it's immigrants, especially "the rapists" and "criminals" that cross the Mexican border.

 

[Irish YJ]

Since the discussion has centered upon Mexican-Americans, I will limit my comments to that group. Using your criteria for the "American Way", Mexican-Americans are prime examples of the American-Way. They exemplify everything you list.

1. Hard-Working: Mexican-Americans are very hard working. They willingly accept some of the jobs with the longest hours and hardest working conditions. What other ethnic group displays a willingness to work long hours planting and harvesting produce?

2. Honest: Mexican-Americans are as honest as they come. There is not a shred of evidence that Mexican-Americans are prone to dishonesty at a greater level than any other ethnic group.

3. Law-Abiding: Mexican-Americans are as law-abiding as any other ethnic group. Granted. There are exceptions in all ethnic groups, but Mexican-Americans are no more criminals than any other group.

4. Tax-Paying: Mexican-Americans pay their fair share of taxes. Most likely a higher percentage of their income than Donald Trump.

5. Charity Giving: Mexican-Americans are probably more charitable than most groups. Charity begins at home and Mexican-Americans do not abandon their elders to nursing homes and other residential holding tanks to the same extent as other ethnic groups. They are also predominantly Catholic and contribute regular to their church and its charitable works.

6. Nation Loving: Mexican-Americans love the country. That is why they or their descendants came here in the first place. But love of country doesn't mean blindly waving the American flag at a Trump rally. Love of country means standing up for those beliefs and doctrines that make America strong. Rallying against an anti-immigrant candidate who denigrates women and others is supporting what the nation stands for.

7. Setting the Bar High: Mexican-Americans do not oppose America's greatness. they came here to be a part of it. But claiming "I'm going to make America great again" doesn't do anything to make America great. Standing up against racist comments, opposition to the denigration of women and minorities, and resisting those who express a willingness to start a nuclear war. Those are actions that will lead to making an already great America into an even better America.

If Mexican-Americans are in the forefront of those protesting at Trump's rallies, they have every right to be doing so. After all, they are one of the groups being singled out by Trump as anti-American. If the angry white man is going to support Trump, they must be given someone to blame for their stagnant economic condition. Trump has told them it's immigrants, especially "the rapists" and "criminals" that cross the Mexican border.

I have no problem with Mexicans, or Mexican Americans. I love the diversity of this nation so long as people understand the above. I was speaking about immigration in general. #3 and 4, so long as they (or whomever) come legally and pay their taxes, welcome to America, and please enjoy responsibility just like everybody else. If they don't follow 3 or 4 (or the rest of the points), well you broke the law and/or are not contributing to the nation you're living in (please don't let the door hit you on your way out). And just because you came illegally, that does not give you squatters rights to a status or economic support structure.

 

[TheOneWhoKnocks]

What Muhammad Ali Once Said About Donald Trump’s Muslim Ban Proposal

Purpose of this? Do you believe its the responsibility of political persons to educate people of any religion?

 

[connor_in]

DRUDGE: SECRET SERVICE AGENT BOOK ROCKS CLINTON CAMPAIGN

SECRET SERVICE AGENT BOOK ROCKS CLINTON CAMPAIGN
Sat Jun 04 2016 18:03:18 ET
**Exclusive**

Posted directly outside President Clinton's Oval Office, Former Secret Service officer Gary Byrne reveals what he observed of Hillary Clinton's character and the culture inside the White House while protecting the First Family.

Coming in 3 weeks his tell-all book: 'CRISIS OF CHARACTER!'

MORE

The secret project is causing deep concern inside of Clinton's campaign, sources tell the DRUDGE REPORT.

Specific details of the agent's confessional are being held under tight embargo.

"What I saw in the 1990s sickend me," Byrne explains. "I want you to hear my story."

MORE

'CHARACTER' is set for release June 28. [It ranked #60,436 on AMAZON's bestsellers list late Saturday.]

Developing

 

[BGIF]

What Muhammad Ali Once Said About Donald Trump’s Muslim Ban Proposal

"What Muhammad Ali Once Said ..."

Interesting considering that it's been several years since Muhammad Ali was able to speak.

Two years ago his brother Rahman Ali said the Olympic gold medalist’s health had deteriorated so much he was unable to speak.

June 16, 2016
Muhammad Ali on life support as family is warned 'the end is near' - Mirror Online

As far back as 2009 it was reported that he was not able to speak at the Obama Inauguration.


In the text of the Jun 4, 2016 article "What Muhammad Ali Once Said ..." Michael Falcone notes further in his article that:

... Ali, who was Muslim, had some pointed words in response to Trump’s proposal to ban Muslims from entering the United States ...

Later Falcone slips in:

In a statement titled, “Presidential Candidates Proposing to Ban Muslim Immigration to the United States” that Ali issued last December after Trump first floated the proposal, the boxing great never mentioned Trump by name – but his message was clear.

Oh, it was a Statement not "Said" as written in Falcone's title. And curiously the Statement was titled, "Candidates" with a plural "s".

I wonder if Mr Falcone knows who's actually wrote the statement? Muhammad Ali's maladies long ago took away his motor skills ... like handwriting.

Could it be that the Ali who "said" those words was a wife? Shades of Edith Wilson who "said" her husbands words in his final month of so as President, and like Nancy Reagan who "said" Ron's words from the hospital when he was kept from the press. Could it be an Ali daughter who coined the words? Or a Ali press agent?

The Muhammad Ali of 15 or 40 years ago may have said those kind of things but he didn't say or write them recently.

 

[TheOneWhoKnocks]

DRUDGE: SECRET SERVICE AGENT BOOK ROCKS CLINTON CAMPAIGN

I never thought much of it, but I would have assumed there was a form of NDA/patient client sort of thing with secret service.

 

[connor_in]

 

[dshans]

Well now, well now, well now.

Let's substitute a pink Barney with an orange, short fingered, bizzarre-haired Ornithischia and a hand dryer that won't shut off even when it's clearly out lived its usefulness or relevance; then we've got a deal.

 

[BGIF]

Well now, well now, well now.

Let's substitute a pink Barney with an orange, short fingered, bizzarre-haired Ornithischia and a hand dryer that won't shut off even when it's clearly out lived its usefulness or relevance; then we've got a deal.

Ornithischia (/ɔːrnᵻˈθɪskiə/ or-ni-thiss-kee-ə) is an extinct clade of herbivorous dinosaurs characterized by a pelvic structure similar to that of birds


Dinosaur ... Ms Rodham ... Well, her best demographic IS the over 65 crowd.

Pelvic structure like a bird ... Visualize Big Bird in a pants suit.

 

[NorthDakota]

I am really enjoying seeing the anti Trump demonstrators assaulting people in San Jose.

Making the Dems look so very bad.

 

[EddytoNow]

I am really enjoying seeing the anti Trump demonstrators assaulting people in San Jose.

Making the Dems look so very bad.

I'm glad you've found something to make the Dems look bad but neither Hillary nor Bernie has been assaulting anybody. Nor have they encouraged their followers to assault anyone. But have you been listening to what the Republican candidate has been saying. He is really making the Republicans look bad. Republican after Republican is looking for a way to distance themselves from Trump while trying to maintain party unity. They are all worried about their next election and aren't sure whether to go all the way over to the wacky side with Trump and risk their political future or to show superficial support while trying to maintain enough distance that they don't go down in flames with him.

What this country needs is to come together and stop the petty partisan squabbling, not magnify it. It will never happen if our president is someone who denigrates and insults nearly everyone with whom he disagrees.

 

[Legacy]

Trump Implies Failure to Effectively Negotiate His Tax Plan Would Be the Best Outcome (Tax Justice)

Throughout the 2016 campaign, presidential candidate Donald Trump has claimed he would raise taxes on himself and other rich individuals, even while promoting a detailed tax plan that would do precisely the opposite.

Trump this weekend attempted to clarify this inconsistency. He remains, he says, committed to his regressive tax proposal, but he’ll rely on legislative negotiations with Congress to ensure the middle class doesn’t get the short end of the stick. If he means what he says, that’s a novel political tactic, to say the least.

Trump’s inconsistency on taxes came to a head last week, when he responded to criticisms that his plan would lavish huge tax cuts on wealthy Americans by saying ambiguously that he is “not such a huge fan of that.” Trump added that he is “so much more into the middle class” in his approach to tax reform.

Yet Trump’s comments are incompatible with the tax plan he announced last fall, which would reserve a stunning 37 percent of its tax breaks for the very richest 1 percent of Americans while cutting federal revenues by $12 trillion over a decade.

(Continues)

Also,
Donald Trump's Tax Plan Would Cost $12 Trillion (Citizens for Tax Justice)

 

[Irish YJ]

I'm glad you've found something to make the Dems look bad but neither Hillary nor Bernie has been assaulting anybody. Nor have they encouraged their followers to assault anyone. But have you been listening to what the Republican candidate has been saying. He is really making the Republicans look bad. Republican after Republican is looking for a way to distance themselves from Trump while trying to maintain party unity. They are all worried about their next election and aren't sure whether to go all the way over to the wacky side with Trump and risk their political future or to show superficial support while trying to maintain enough distance that they don't go down in flames with him.

What this country needs is to come together and stop the petty partisan squabbling, not magnify it. It will never happen if our president is someone who denigrates and insults nearly everyone with whom he disagrees.

Is that so long as it's a D prez?

 

[dshans]

Ornithischia (/ɔːrnᵻˈθɪskiə/ or-ni-thiss-kee-ə) is an extinct clade of herbivorous dinosaurs characterized by a pelvic structure similar to that of birds


Dinosaur ... Ms Rodham ... Well, her best demographic IS the over 65 crowd.

Pelvic structure like a bird ... Visualize Big Bird in a pants suit.

So ... a vituperative Grouch living in a gold plated garbage can is preferable?

Why not a vindictive Petite, Petty, Porcina* with a vicious karate chop?

An Irascible Old Fart in a balcony?

We are all Muppets on This Bus.**






*My apologies to the Spanish language.
**A very esoteric reference to The Firesign Theater.

 

[Ultimate Penn St. Hater]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Paul Krugman tells <a href="https://twitter.com/thisweek">@ThisWeek</a>: Donald Trump is "completely incoherent on economic policy" <a href="https://t.co/p607XNZR3Y">https://t.co/p607XNZR3Y</a> <a href="https://t.co/9qFIo49El4">pic.twitter.com/9qFIo49El4</a></p>— ABC News (@ABC) <a href="https://twitter.com/ABC/status/739567536732246018">June 5, 2016</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[BGIF]

So ... a vituperative Grouch living in a gold plated garbage can is preferable?

Why not a vindictive Petite, Petty, Porcina* with a vicious karate chop?

An Irascible Old Fart in a balcony?

We are all Muppets on This Bus.**






*My apologies to the Spanish language.
**A very esoteric reference to The Firesign Theater.

"Why not a vindictive Petite, Petty, Porcina* with a vicious karate chop?"

Appropriately decked out in a extra long pantsuit and screaming "VAST RIGHT WING CONSPIRACY!"

 

[GATTACA!]

"Why not a vindictive Petite, Petty, Porcina* with a vicious karate chop?"

Appropriately decked out in a extra long pantsuit and screaming "VAST RIGHT WING CONSPIRACY!"

"WHAT DIFFERENCE DOES IT MAKE!?"

 

[kmoose]

Donald Trump doesn't have the temperament to be President....

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/dNBfoRlLdYI" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

#potmeetskettle

 

[Polish Leppy 22]

So ... are you also sick of people displaying and waving the flag of Ireland on St. Patrick's Day and at Notre Dame football games?

I know that a few of my relatives entered the US from Ireland illegally through Canada.

A woman I know in Miami was a Cuban national. She and her father were technically "wetbacks" in that they left Cuba for Mexico and then crossed into Texas without "papers." As refugees from the Castro government they were granted special status. He was artist-in-residence for Dade County.

Perhaps The Donald will propose building a uuge moat, say the size of the Atlantic ocean, to keep those pesky Drumpfs out.

Can you find any pictures/ videos of Irish Americans burning the US flag while waving the flag of Ireland? I can't.

 

[Polish Leppy 22]

I'm glad you've found something to make the Dems look bad but neither Hillary nor Bernie has been assaulting anybody. Nor have they encouraged their followers to assault anyone. But have you been listening to what the Republican candidate has been saying. He is really making the Republicans look bad. Republican after Republican is looking for a way to distance themselves from Trump while trying to maintain party unity. They are all worried about their next election and aren't sure whether to go all the way over to the wacky side with Trump and risk their political future or to show superficial support while trying to maintain enough distance that they don't go down in flames with him.

What this country needs is to come together and stop the petty partisan squabbling, not magnify it. It will never happen if our president is someone who denigrates and insults nearly everyone with whom he disagrees.

Maybe I missed it, but I haven't heard Hillary, Bernie, or Obama condemn the bullshit that went on in San Jose a few days ago. And the battle for what kind of country we're going to be isn't petty partisan squabbling.

 

[NDinL.A.]

Maybe I missed it, but I haven't heard Hillary, Bernie, or Obama condemn the bullshit that went on in San Jose a few days ago. And the battle for what kind of country we're going to be isn't petty partisan squabbling.

Yeah, you missed it. Hillary did, and then Bernie did.

 

[woolybug25]

Yeah, you missed it. Hillary did, and then Bernie did.

You shouldn't have bothered, Hollywood. The Polack is all like...

Like talking to a brick wall.

 

[Bluto]

Can you find any pictures/ videos of Irish Americans burning the US flag while waving the flag of Ireland? I can't.

Lol. The San Patricio Battalion did more than that.