2016 Presidential Horse Race

[BleedBlueGold]

Details and Analysis of Senator Bernie Sanders’s Tax Plan | Tax Foundation

That sums it up for me. I am sure the analysis isn't perfect, but even if it is directional....woof.

I could be wrong, but hasn't that analysis been torn to shreds recently, mainly because they failed to incorporate the healthcare savings of a single payer system? I'm trying to find it, but didn't they re-release their analysis and show that it's no where near as bad as they first suggested? (I'm trying to find a link. I was told about it, but haven't laid eyes on it for confirmation.)


Can't deny some of those issues though. Far from perfect. Have you seen Trump's plan to crash the economy? Yikes. Or HRC's plan to not change anything and let multinational corporations continue to keep money out of the Treasury and to perpetuate the wars in the ME, costing additional trillions of dollars?

 

[Irish#1]

Let me point out that one of the reasons Bernie has been attacked constantly is for "not being specific enough" even though he's been one of the only candidates to actually give detailed information about his policies. I'm not saying said policies are right or wrong. I'm just saying he got attacked for not being specific, meanwhile Trump and Clinton have flown under the radar in that regard. It's ridiculous and a hatchet job by the media to play these types of games. I don't see how any Trump supporter can defend him in the manner you are in this post. Candidates shouldn't be given a pass for not being specific. And you shouldn't assume after the primaries, he'll magically have all of this information to bless upon us. He's been pandering and flip-flopping way too much to have any idea what he'll actually do once in office.

You've missed the point and I would hardly characterize my post as defending him. First, I've never said I was voting for or supporting Trump. If you look at some of my earlier posts and you'll see that. I disagree that Sanders is the only one taking heat for not providing specifics. Trump has taken plenty of heat for not providing specifics. Clinton has as well. Especially when asked about her email and sensitive documents on her server. I simply stated that Trump said he would provide specifics once the race was on. Not a bad strategy as it gives opponents less to aim at during the primaries. Will he go into more detail later? I have no idea and wouldn't be surprised if he doesn't.

When I wrote "So the question is, status quo with Hillary or try something new with Trump?" it was just a question, not an endorsement for Trump. Are you upset because I didn't include Sanders in the equation? I would prefer Sanders over Clinton, but didn't because I don't think he has a chance to beat Clinton.

So once again, the question is, "Status quo with Hillary or try something new with Trump?" because that's where this is headed.

 

[BleedBlueGold]

You've missed the point and I would hardly characterize my post as defending him. First, I've never said I was voting for or supporting Trump. If you look at some of my earlier posts and you'll see that. I disagree that Sanders is the only one taking heat for not providing specifics. Trump has taken plenty of heat for not providing specifics. Clinton has as well. Especially when asked about her email and sensitive documents on her server. I simply stated that Trump said he would provide specifics once the race was on. Not a bad strategy as it gives opponents less to aim at during the primaries. Will he go into more detail later? I have no idea and wouldn't be surprised if he doesn't.

When I wrote "So the question is, status quo with Hillary or try something new with Trump?" it was just a question, not an endorsement for Trump. Are you upset because I didn't include Sanders in the equation? I would prefer Sanders over Clinton, but didn't because I don't think he has a chance to beat Clinton.

So once again, the question is, "Status quo with Hillary or try something new with Trump?" because that's where this is headed.

I would prefer to try something new. I'm just not convinced Trump is the answer. I sure as hell know that HRC is not the answer. Not because I think she'll drive this country into the ground (I don't), but because for decades Establishment DC politics have been manipulating and rigging the system. American isn't bad for the wealthy. It's not even bad for upper middle class families. But everyone else seems to be struggling with a raw deal. Some of it is poor decision making and being irresponsible with money. But some of it is having the deck stacked against them. Neo Libs like the Clintons and Obama like to pander to those on the lowest tiers, but in reality, they're not really trying to help them.

Hollywood name-dropped Mark Cuban as someone he thought might run someday. Whether or not he actually would, idk. But he's someone I wouldn't mind sitting down and listening to what he has to say. Trump, though? No way. Even after finding common ground with him, I can't get past his misogyny, racist, egotistical, flip-flopping banter.

 

[phgreek]

neither choice is pallatable. So the one thing that matters from this will be how the constitution is viewed for the next half century. I don't think more Kagan an Soto Mayor is what this country needs...So im voting to block more of that nonsense. THE only way to do that is to vote for someone who could beat Hillary. I'm coming to the realization that a third party candidate is not going to show up...and I'm sick, but I'm not willingly leaving my grand kids a severely tilted and misguided SCOTUS to deal with.

 

[ACamp1900]

I would prefer to try something new. I'm just not convinced Trump is the answer. I sure as hell know that HRC is not the answer. Not because I think she'll drive this country into the ground (I don't), but because for decades Establishment DC politics have been manipulating and rigging the system. American isn't bad for the wealthy. It's not even bad for upper middle class families. But everyone else seems to be struggling with a raw deal. Some of it is poor decision making and being irresponsible with money. But some of it is having the deck stacked against them. Neo Libs like the Clintons and Obama like to pander to those on the lowest tiers, but in reality, they're not really trying to help them.

Hollywood name-dropped Mark Cuban as someone he thought might run someday. Whether or not he actually would, idk. But he's someone I wouldn't mind sitting down and listening to what he has to say. Trump, though? No way. Even after finding common ground with him, I can't get past his misogyny, racist, egotistical, flip-flopping banter.

neither choice is pallatable. So the one thing that matters from this will be how the constitution is viewed for the next half century. I don't think more Kagan an Soto Mayor is what this country needs...So im voting to block more of that nonsense. THE only way to do that is to vote for someone who could beat Hillary. I'm coming to the realization that a third party candidate is not going to show up...and I'm sick, but I'm not willingly leaving my grand kids a severely tilted and misguided SCOTUS to deal with.

I get both of these... I really do,... I can't vote of Clinton, just me... I'm struggling with the possibility of voting for a widlcard like Trump... honestly though, it won't really matter for me anyway... I'm a Californian. We all know where my electorals are going.

 

[BleedBlueGold]

Anything to get money out of politics and get Congress to stop working for big corporations and start working for regular ol' American citizens is what I favor at this point. That apple cart is due to be turned over.

 

[phgreek]

Anything to get money out of politics and get Congress to stop working for big corporations and start working for regular ol' American citizens is what I favor at this point. That apple cart is due to be turned over.

...yea that too.

 

[NDinL.A.]

neither choice is pallatable. So the one thing that matters from this will be how the constitution is viewed for the next half century. I don't think more Kagan an Soto Mayor is what this country needs...So im voting to block more of that nonsense. THE only way to do that is to vote for someone who could beat Hillary. I'm coming to the realization that a third party candidate is not going to show up...and I'm sick, but I'm not willingly leaving my grand kids a severely tilted and misguided SCOTUS to deal with.

The problem is, how can you trust Trump to get it right? I sure as hell don’t. There is a reason why there are Republican Senators all of a sudden calling for Obama’s nominee to get appointed, because they know Hillary will choose someone even further left, and are scared what Trump will do. He has already said he might go with his sister, who is a proud liberal. Even if he was joking, it's still troubling for me. And Trump himself, when he wasn’t trying to get on the Republican ticket, had many beliefs that aligned with the Democratic party. Dude is such a wildcard and such a weirdo that he could go in any direction and it wouldn’t surprise me. And he is such a great judge of character that he supported Hillary for years and praised her work as Secretary of State (and had no problem with her sticking by Bill’s side while he was banging cocktail waitresses two at a time) and has tagged such greats as Sarah Palin and Chris Christie to help campaign for him. Ugh.

 

[GoIrish41]

Trump supporterx beating up hobos in Boston. Making America Great Again!

Boston Men Jailed For Trump-Inspired Hate Crime Attack

 

[pkt77242]

I have to admit that I am still trying to process how we ended up with these shitty candidates.

 

[BleedBlueGold]

I have to admit that I am still trying to process how we ended up with these shitty candidates.

A GOP electorate primed for a Trumpian takeover and a corrupt DNC establishment pushing their heir apparent.

 

[Ndaccountant]

I have to admit that I am still trying to process how we ended up with these shitty candidates.

Easy. One party has super's and the other doesn't. If wasn't for that, it would most likely be Sanders vs Trump. That battle = Americans fed up and taking the figurative shit on the establishment.

The one thing I don't hear people talking about is that the Republicans have had their day of reckoning if you will...will the Democrats heed that example or will they move forward with people like Clinton?

 

[phgreek]

The problem is, how can you trust Trump to get it right? I sure as hell don’t. There is a reason why there are Republican Senators all of a sudden calling for Obama’s nominee to get appointed, because they know Hillary will choose someone even further left, and are scared what Trump will do. He has already said he might go with his sister, who is a proud liberal. Even if he was joking, it's still troubling for me. And Trump himself, when he wasn’t trying to get on the Republican ticket, had many beliefs that aligned with the Democratic party. Dude is such a wildcard and such a weirdo that he could go in any direction and it wouldn’t surprise me. And he is such a great judge of character that he supported Hillary for years and praised her work as Secretary of State (and had no problem with her sticking by Bill’s side while he was banging cocktail waitresses two at a time) and has tagged such greats as Sarah Palin and Chris Christie to help campaign for him. Ugh.

Given it some thought...and I certainly understand where you ended up. To me, there is hope Trump could appoint a acouple conservatives and then a liberal...even his sister. Point is I KNOW Hillary would appoint every single oppening in the model of Kagan...and that is destructive at best.

If we are honest the best SCOTUS is ballanced...not stacked liberal or conservative. The only prayer for that is Trump...or someone yet to come on the scene. My hope for another candidate to emerge is dwindling...

 

[BleedBlueGold]

Easy. One party has super's and the other doesn't. If wasn't for that, it would most likely be Sanders vs Trump. That battle = Americans fed up and taking the figurative shit on the establishment.

The one thing I don't hear people talking about is that the Republicans have had their day of reckoning if you will...will the Democrats heed that example or will they move forward with people like Clinton?

Yes and no. Even if they had 50/50 share of the supers, HRC would still be ahead. The more glaring issues should focus on what the Hillary-machine did in certain states (closing polling places, Bill showing up to campaign and sway voters, voter registration purges, etc). That sort of corruption helped her tremendously on top of the fact that Bernie is an IND running for Democratic nominee and the DNC holds closed elections in certain states. You also had the mainstream media constantly bashing Bernie and basically pampering HRC. That weighs on people's decision making. Call my a cynic. Call me a sore loser. But I'm convinced that the Clintons, their donors, the mainstream media, the DNC and Debbie Wasserman Schultz, along with many others all played a very key role in making sure their candidate won and they were going to make sure that happened at any cost.

 

[GoIrish41]

Donald Trump Is Not Expanding the GOP - POLITICO Magazine

 

[connor_in]

Yes and no. Even if they had 50/50 share of the supers, HRC would still be ahead. The more glaring issues should focus on what the Hillary-machine did in certain states (closing polling places, Bill showing up to campaign and sway voters, voter registration purges, etc). That sort of corruption helped her tremendously on top of the fact that Bernie is an IND running for Democratic nominee and the DNC holds closed elections in certain states. You also had the mainstream media constantly bashing Bernie and basically pampering HRC. That weighs on people's decision making. Call my a cynic. Call me a sore loser. But I'm convinced that the Clintons, their donors, the mainstream media, the DNC and Debbie Wasserman Schultz, along with many others all played a very key role in making sure their candidate won and they were going to make sure that happened at any cost.

This is exactly why the HRC wing of the Dem party is soooo totally ticked off at Bernie for continuing to stay in the race and winning states.

 

[TheOneWhoKnocks]

Trump supporterx beating up hobos in Boston. Making America Great Again!

Boston Men Jailed For Trump-Inspired Hate Crime Attack

Lol at the editor note noo bias at all. arrested lil over a month after Trump announced, when did Trump even first say anything about illegal immigration.

 

[IrishLax]

Trump supporterx beating up hobos in Boston. Making America Great Again!

Boston Men Jailed For Trump-Inspired Hate Crime Attack

Confused how everything a "Trump supporter" does it laid directly at Trump's feet... yet when, say, someone in the name of Islam blows something up we're supposed to say it's "not Islam's fault." When a deranged Trump supporter says "Trump was right, no more illegals!" how is that different than a jihadist saying "Muhammad was right, no more infidels!"

Also, the editor's note is hilarious.

 

[GoIrish41]

Lol at the editor note noo bias at all. arrested lil over a month after Trump announced, when did Trump even first say anything about illegal immigration.

Um, during his announcement.

 

[EddytoNow]

Yes and no. Even if they had 50/50 share of the supers, HRC would still be ahead. The more glaring issues should focus on what the Hillary-machine did in certain states (closing polling places, Bill showing up to campaign and sway voters, voter registration purges, etc). That sort of corruption helped her tremendously on top of the fact that Bernie is an IND running for Democratic nominee and the DNC holds closed elections in certain states. You also had the mainstream media constantly bashing Bernie and basically pampering HRC. That weighs on people's decision making. Call my a cynic. Call me a sore loser. But I'm convinced that the Clintons, their donors, the mainstream media, the DNC and Debbie Wasserman Schultz, along with many others all played a very key role in making sure their candidate won and they were going to make sure that happened at any cost.

Huh? Pampering Hillary? I don't know what media you've been watching, but the mainstream media has certainly not been a friend to Hillary. From Benghazi, to her e-mails, to selectively quoting her statements on the decline of the coal industry, the media has spent the past year building up Trump and Sanders. The whole system imploding was good for the bottom-line of the media.

 

[GoIrish41]

Confused how everything a "Trump supporter" does it laid directly at Trump's feet... yet when, say, someone in the name of Islam blows something up we're supposed to say it's "not Islam's fault." When a deranged Trump supporter says "Trump was right, no more illegals!" how is that different than a jihadist saying "Muhammad was right, no more infidels!"

Also, the editor's note is hilarious.

The brothers who attacked the guy laid it at Trump's feet, not me. Muhammad is the central figure in a religion with over a billion followers and has been dead for centuries. When anyone does horrible acts in his name, they are characterized, understandably, as terrorists. Why is Trump not held to account when people hear his words and commit violence? Trump's "suggestions" include lumping all who follow Islam together and applying draconian rules to stop the madness. Should we not apply the same logic in dealing with his supporters? Why are they viewed as individual bad actors and his rhetoric that inspires them given a pass? Trump inspired these actions ... the bum beating brothers said as much ... just like Mihammed's words inspire terrorists. At least that's the conclusion I arrive at when I follow Trump's lead. Dudes who look a certain way get punished for it. An ugly line of thought, no doubt. That's why this guy is dangerous. #irony

 

[pkt77242]

Dems' new fear: Sanders revolt could upend Democratic convention - CNNPolitics.com

 

[GATTACA!]

Trump Pulls Almost Even With Clinton in New Poll

According to a national poll of almost 4,000 registered voters taken last week, Clinton leads Trump by just 42 percent to 40 percent, within the 2-point margin of error. She is down 2 percent from a week ago, while Trump gained 2 points. Nearly one out of five voters (17 percent) remain undecided.

Among all voters, Clinton is almost as unpopular as the controversial Trump. Only 41 percent of voters have a favorable view of her, compared with 39 percent who have a favorable view of Trump.The new poll shows Trump making gains among independents, women, and those who classify themselves as moderates. He increased his support among independent voters by 3 points, while Clinton’s support fell by 2 points. Support from women for the former Secretary of State also fell by 2 points, while Trump’s increased by 2 points. And among moderates, the new poll shows Clinton only holding a 10-point lead over Trump (46 percent to 36 percent), down from a 17-point lead (49 percent to 32 percent) in the previous poll.

Uh oh

 

[pkt77242]

Trump Pulls Almost Even With Clinton in New Poll





Uh oh

Not shocking considering the "fight" still ongoing between Sanders and Clinton. The way Trump wins is if Sanders takes it to the Convention and then a massive "battle" erupts there which causes many Sanders supporters to stay home during the general election.

 

[EddytoNow]

What does everyone think of Trump's threat to sue the New York Times for investigating and reporting on his mistreatment of women?

Personally, I'd love to see him sue. It would only prolong the story into the Fall as each of the women takes the stand to repeat her story. Does Trump really want the news each night to be dominated by accusations of how he mistreats and trivializes women?

An experienced politician would either ignore the story or make a single statement denying the accusations and then move on letting the story die. When the news is focused on the Donald's words and behaviors, the negative stories about Hillary start to fade in the public's consciousness. The Clintons know how to fight and are masters of shifting the media focus from one topic to another. I'm sorry Donald, but you haven't seen anything yet. You have done some shady things, and the Democrats are going to keep reminding the public of your character flaws and your quick temper.

 

[pkt77242]

What does everyone think of Trump's threat to sue the New York Times for investigating and reporting on his mistreatment of women?

Personally, I'd love to see him sue. It would only prolong the story into the Fall as each of the women takes the stand to repeat her story. Does Trump really want the news each night to be dominated by accusations of how he mistreats and trivializes women?

An experienced politician would either ignore the story or make a single statement denying the accusations and then move on letting the story die. When the news is focused on the Donald's words and behaviors, the negative stories about Hillary start to fade in the public's consciousness. The Clintons know how to fight and are masters of shifting the media focus from one topic to another. I'm sorry Donald, but you haven't seen anything yet. You have done some shady things, and the Democrats are going to keep reminding the public of your character flaws and your quick temper.

Also you would have discovery process for the lawsuit if it was filed, there is 0% chance that Trump wants to go through that.

 

[GoIrish41]

What does everyone think of Trump's threat to sue the New York Times for investigating and reporting on his mistreatment of women?

Personally, I'd love to see him sue. It would only prolong the story into the Fall as each of the women takes the stand to repeat her story. Does Trump really want the news each night to be dominated by accusations of how he mistreats and trivializes women?

An experienced politician would either ignore the story or make a single statement denying the accusations and then move on letting the story die. When the news is focused on the Donald's words and behaviors, the negative stories about Hillary start to fade in the public's consciousness. The Clintons know how to fight and are masters of shifting the media focus from one topic to another. I'm sorry Donald, but you haven't seen anything yet. You have done some shady things, and the Democrats are going to keep reminding the public of your character flaws and your quick temper.

He threatens to sue everyone. lol I agree though, I hope he goes through with it.

 

[IrishJayhawk]

Confused how everything a "Trump supporter" does it laid directly at Trump's feet... yet when, say, someone in the name of Islam blows something up we're supposed to say it's "not Islam's fault." When a deranged Trump supporter says "Trump was right, no more illegals!" how is that different than a jihadist saying "Muhammad was right, no more infidels!"

Also, the editor's note is hilarious.

HuffPo has included that same editor's note on every article about Trump for a couple of months now. They used to put his articles in the entertainment section.

 

[TheOneWhoKnocks]

Um, during his announcement.

Well you weren't wrong, he did spend exactly 1 min of 46 min speech on subject. Never watched it before, same stuff he says at rally but IMO was his best presentation.

Didn't read the NY piece, have seen women say they were misqouted or w/e

 

[GoIrish41]

Well you weren't wrong, he did spend exactly 1 min of 46 min speech on subject. Never watched it before, same stuff he says at rally but IMO was his best presentation.

And what a 1:46 it was ...