2016 Presidential Horse Race

2016 Presidential Horse Race


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GoIrish41

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I think you guys are underestimating Cruz' ground game in the delegate selection process. I think he'll go into the convention with the majority of delegates supporting him, even if a chunk of them are bound to Trump on the first ballot. I predict an easy Cruz win on the second ballot.

What I'd love to see is Rubio getting on the stage prior to the second ballot and making his "New American Century" speech. I think that speech is powerful enough to win the convention.

My impression is that Republicans, at the end of the day, hate Ted Cruz. It's great that he is executing his ground game to "secure" delegates to keep the nomination from Trump, but when the realization hits that this means Cruz will be the nominee I think all bets are off. Paul Ryan's name has been floated, and while he publicly proclaims that he does not want the nomination, he also publicly proclaimed that he didn't want to be Speaker. If his name is floated as a serious candidate at the convention, all that work Cruz did to procure delegates will go out the window, IMHO. That said, I hope you are right. The Dems would have no problem beating Cruz in the general, because if there is anyone who dislikes Cruz more than the Republicans, it's everyone else.
 

phgreek

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I still don't get where in the world you think Donald will "moderate". He has never moderated - it just isn't in him. Have you read any of his books? I have. His propensity for revenge is not only scary, it's kind of sickening, especially for a future president. He states time and time again that he will never back down to anyone and if they cross him they will get it 10 x's worse.

So if he is going to go down, he's going to go down his way, and he'll go down fighting and kicking and screaming, and he'll lie and blame others as we all are getting royally fucked (just as he is doing now). There is no moderating or half-way with this guy. He swings for the fences and wins big (Trump Towers, many primaries), or loses big (Trump Vodka, Trump Steaks, etc). And with America, there are no bankruptcy protection laws that will save us from our country getting screwed economically while he also divides this country between white and people of color.

As for Hillary, as I’ve stated A LOT, I am no fan at all. But if it is between her and Trump, I’ll vote for her a million times before I vote for Trump. Her floor isn’t even close to Trump’s floor.



I am right there. Holy crap, I’d be beside myself if it were Sanders vs. Trump. I can’t stand Bernie, and his pie-in-the-sky policies simply don’t add up, and would screw so many people it’d be unbelievable. We’re screwed either way. Of the 5 remaining, I’d vote:
1. Kasich




2. Hillary (UGH)
3. Cruz (I consider myself conservative but this dude creeps me the hell out.
4. Sanders
5. Trump

Going off my life's experience...could be wrong.

I have always been able to coral and redirect loud mouth egotistical jackasses, because in each case they cared about achieving things, saw themselves through what they did, and if you kept it about success of things, they were manageable and productive.

People like Hillary...no way. You cannot redirect them because they exist as non-committal opportunistic parasitic beings...they are cancer animated. Their only job is to grow at the host's expense. And Hillary may not scrawl out her vengefull nature...but are ya honestly saying it isn't there? There is simply nothing that can be done with Hillary type cancers except Chemo, radiation, excision...or in Hillary's case EXORCISM.

Maybe Trump is as you say, but I know damned well Hillary is as I say. Making neither suitable...but I'd take my chances with Trump hoping that someone could redirect him...
 

wizards8507

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<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/9In0Xf8HH4k" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

His Bernie sounds a bit too much like Gilbert Gottfried but still funny stuff.
 

phgreek

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My impression is that Republicans, at the end of the day, hate Ted Cruz. It's great that he is executing his ground game to "secure" delegates to keep the nomination from Trump, but when the realization hits that this means Cruz will be the nominee I think all bets are off. Paul Ryan's name has been floated, and while he publicly proclaims that he does not want the nomination, he also publicly proclaimed that he didn't want to be Speaker. If his name is floated as a serious candidate at the convention, all that work Cruz did to procure delegates will go out the window, IMHO. That said, I hope you are right. The Dems would have no problem beating Cruz in the general, because if there is anyone who dislikes Cruz more than the Republicans, it's everyone else.

Yea that little standup routine he did tipped me off...he is the man if this thing isn't settled early on at the convention. And yea he'll do the aw shucks thing, and higher calling, blah, blah, blah...and he'll take it.
 

GoIrish41

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Yea that little standup routine he did tipped me off...he is the man if this thing isn't settled early on at the convention. And yea he'll do the aw shucks thing, and higher calling, blah, blah, blah...and he'll take it.

Savior of the Republican Party, and all of that ... But, while folks have been going on about how small a number 35% is when that's all that Trump can usually muster in any given state in the primaries, they'll realize how big a number it really is when none of his supporters come to the polls during the general -- or vote for a third party Trump. The only thing that might keep Ryan from ascending to his role as savior, is that he comes to grips with the idea that there might not be any way he can possibly win in the general. I presume he'd keep his day job if he decided to run?
 
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Ndaccountant

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This is a story about ethics and economics, winners and losers, and the philosophical muddle on both ends of the political spectrum, as told through two of the hot-button issues of the 2016 U.S. presidential race: the minimum wage and free trade.
Start with an unpopular but irrefutable fact: Raising the minimum wage to $15 an hour, as some states are doing, will create both winners and losers. The winners will be workers who get paid more, of course. The losers will be low-skilled workers who don't get paid at all, because employers couldn't afford to keep them on.
Should you care that a measure intended to make people better off will actually make some worse off? That's a deep question that has exercised such greats as John Stuart Mill, Vilfredo Pareto, and John Rawls. Before you answer it, though, please consider the case of free trade, which involves a similar conundrum. Like raising the wage floor, lowering barriers to cheap foreign imports makes a lot of Americans better off (by cutting the cost of baby clothes, toys, televisions, etc.) while undeniably hurting others (by closing down their factories).
This is where it gets interesting. As similar as the two cases are, the political reactions to them are not. Liberals like Bernie Sanders are strongly in favor of raising the minimum wage, yet suspicious of free trade. When it comes to the minimum wage, they're all about the greatest good for the greatest number, but on the topic of trade they're focused intently on protecting the disadvantaged minority.

Conservatives are just as self-contradictory on these two issues, only in the opposite direction. They worry a whole lot about Americans losing their jobs because of a higher minimum wage, but are less concerned with people losing their jobs because of lowered trade barriers.

These don't seem to be cases of outright hypocrisy. Instead, they simply reflect the human tendency to be impressed by evidence that confirms our beliefs and reject information that challenges them. "We see what we want to see," economist and author Tim Harford wrote in a recent column.
Advocates of a $15 minimum wage argue that economic research has shown little or no job loss from raising the floor. The U.S. Department of Labor even posted an undated page on its website called "Minimum Wage Mythbusters" that says it's "not true" that a higher minimum wage will cost jobs.
But that all depends on how much it's raised. That Mythbusters page cites a letter by more than 600 economists, including seven Nobel laureates, who say minimum wage hikes to date "have had little or no negative effect on the employment of minimum-wage workers." But wait—click on the link and you'll see the economists, in 2014, were advocating raising the floor to $10.10 an hour by this year. That's a far cry from $15. “We have no experience with an increase in the national minimum of that size and I am concerned about what a $15 minimum nationwide would do to employment,” former Bureau of Labor Statistics Commissioner Katherine Abraham wrote to me last year.
On trade, of course, everything is backward. Liberals dwell on the stories of factory workers thrown out of work. Conservatives counter that the gains from trade are so great that a portion of the societal benefit can go toward compensating those who lose out. That is true in textbooks, but not so much in real life. As I wrote in a recent Opening Remarks column in Bloomberg Businessweek, "trade adjustment assistance, as it’s called, is hardly a cure-all. The sums are tiny in comparison with the scale of the problem, and the success rate is low."
It's fine to favor a higher minimum wage but oppose freer trade, or vice versa. Just be aware that the argument you're using to make your case on one issue could be used against you on the other.

The $15 Minimum Wage Will Kill Jobs. Should You Care? - Bloomberg
 

woolybug25

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Going off my life's experience...could be wrong.

I have always been able to coral and redirect loud mouth egotistical jackasses, because in each case they cared about achieving things, saw themselves through what they did, and if you kept it about success of things, they were manageable and productive.

People like Hillary...no way. You cannot redirect them because they exist as non-committal opportunistic parasitic beings...they are cancer animated. Their only job is to grow at the host's expense. And Hillary may not scrawl out her vengefull nature...but are ya honestly saying it isn't there? There is simply nothing that can be done with Hillary type cancers except Chemo, radiation, excision...or in Hillary's case EXORCISM.

Maybe Trump is as you say, but I know damned well Hillary is as I say. Making neither suitable...but I'd take my chances with Trump hoping that someone could redirect him...

There hasn't been one single time, in his entire lifetime, where someone "redirected him".

That's comical.
 

wizards8507

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Savior of the Republican Party, and all of that ... But, while folks have been going on about how small a number 35% is when that's all that Trump can usually muster in any given state in the primaries, they'll realize how big a number it really is when none of his supporters come to the polls during the general -- or vote for a third party Trump. The only thing that might keep Ryan from ascending to his role as savior, is that he comes to grips with the idea that there might not be any way he can possibly win in the general. I presume he'd keep his day job if he decided to run?
I completely disagree. The Trump supporters weren't out voting for Mitt Romney in 2012, so the Republicans won't be losing anything by pissing them off.
 

BleedBlueGold

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The $15 min wage is another one of those "Beyond my Lib-ness Tolerances" that I mentioned earlier today.

There was a recent story about a store owner in CA raising to $15 eventually. It was "great for the employees" but it will force him to up his prices (which is what a lot of companies will do). So in the long run, all we really accomplish by raising the minimum wage that high is raising the costs of goods and services, taking us back to square one.

I firmly believe the minimum wage is too low now. But I'd like to see states handle it since cost of living differs widely around the country. It needs to be raised, but not to $15 (unless you live in high cost places like NY, CT, CA, etc)

I think it's more important to teach people how to handle their income rather than just fork over higher wages.
 

GoIrish41

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I completely disagree. The Trump supporters weren't out voting for Mitt Romney in 2012, so the Republicans won't be losing anything by pissing them off.

Trumps unfavorables ...

74 percent of women
85 percent of Latinos
80 percent of African Americans
90 percent of Muslims
100 percent of Democrats

So clearly his chances of winning are miniscule. Not all his support comes from people who didn't vote. A lot comes from those who did and feel like they were ignored. Thus their anger. The GOP nominee needs every vote he can get. They started off as lower than half and a bunch of people protesting by staying home does not help their cause. Who else is left? Any candidate from a contested convention is going to have a lot of pissed off folks protesting similarly. If Trumps supporters peel away, if any of their support is not there in full force, the GOP will get slaughtered in the general.
 
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Trumps unfavorables ...

74 percent of women
85 percent of Latinos
80 percent of African Americans
90 percent of Muslims
100 percent of Democrats

So clearly his chances of winning are miniscule. Not all his support comes from people who didn't vote. A lot comes from those who did and feel like they were ignored. Thus their anger. The GOP nominee needs every vote he can get. They started off as lower than half and a bunch of people protesting by staying home does not help their cause. Who else is left? Any candidate from a contested convention is going to have a lot of pissed off folks protesting similarly. If Trumps supporters peel away, if any of their support is not there in full force, the GOP will get slaughtered in the general.

Where are those numbers from? Some friends and I are registered Democrats and should Bernie not get the nod in the Democratic party, we'd lean Trump over Clinton. There are many Bernie supporters who will flat out not vote for Hillary, and will vote Trump to keep her out.
 

IrishJayhawk

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Where are those numbers from? Some friends and I are registered Democrats and should Bernie not get the nod in the Democratic party, we'd lean Trump over Clinton. There are many Bernie supporters who will flat out not vote for Hillary, and will vote Trump to keep her out.

Then you'd be cutting off your nose to spite your face.
 

woolybug25

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Where are those numbers from? Some friends and I are registered Democrats and should Bernie not get the nod in the Democratic party, we'd lean Trump over Clinton. There are many Bernie supporters who will flat out not vote for Hillary, and will vote Trump to keep her out.

It's strange to me that a Bernie supporter would ever vote for a guy like Trump. He literally the exact opposite of Trump. Hilldog might not be effective, but at least she isn't an oligarch.
 

IrishJayhawk

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Then you'd be cutting off your nose to spite your face.

Let me elaborate...if you're a Bernie supporter, you are presumably interested in getting money out of politics. Who will be more likely to appoint a supreme court justice who will help overturn Citizens United? Trump has said that his models are THomas and Scalia.
 

ShawneeIrish

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Where are those numbers from? Some friends and I are registered Democrats and should Bernie not get the nod in the Democratic party, we'd lean Trump over Clinton. There are many Bernie supporters who will flat out not vote for Hillary, and will vote Trump to keep her out.

I am a Bernie supporter that will flat out not vote for Hillary. I also would never vite for Trump. If it is the awful choice of Trump/Cruz vs Hillary I will vote for Jill Stein or another third party candidate.
 

woolybug25

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I am a Bernie supporter that will flat out not vote for Hillary. I also would never vite for Trump. If it is the awful choice of Trump/Cruz vs Hillary I will vote for Jill Stein or another third party candidate.

Then by proxy, you would be voting for Hillary.

I get why people would vote a third party over Trump or Hillary, but when there is zero chance that candidate can win, your vote is actually a vote for either Hillary or Trump by proxy.
 

IrishJayhawk

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Then by proxy, you would be voting for Hillary.

I get why people would vote a third party over Trump or Hillary, but when there is zero chance that candidate can win, your vote is actually a vote for either Hillary or Trump by proxy.

Think Ralph Nader in 2000. Cost Gore Florida and, therefore, the entire election.
 

wizards8507

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Trumps unfavorables ...

74 percent of women
85 percent of Latinos
80 percent of African Americans
90 percent of Muslims
100 percent of Democrats

So clearly his chances of winning are miniscule. Not all his support comes from people who didn't vote. A lot comes from those who did and feel like they were ignored. Thus their anger. The GOP nominee needs every vote he can get. They started off as lower than half and a bunch of people protesting by staying home does not help their cause. Who else is left? Any candidate from a contested convention is going to have a lot of pissed off folks protesting similarly. If Trumps supporters peel away, if any of their support is not there in full force, the GOP will get slaughtered in the general.
The number of pro-Trump people who would get pissed and leave if he's not the nominee is FAR smaller than the number of anti-Trump people who would get pissed and leave if he IS the nominee.

It's an unenviable situation for the GOP either way. Unifying the party will be tough after the convention but I can safely say that Trump is the singular WORST human being to attempt it.
 

Polish Leppy 22

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The article does not talk about illegal immigration. It talks about the rising tide of animosity toward Mexican people in general, and Mexican people who live in the United States in particular. Their fear is that this trend could end up in hostilities.

Serious question: do you know anything about Mexico's immigration policy and how they treat illegal immigrants? And are you aware of the human rights' groups who have criticized Mexico's treatment of illegal immigrants?
 

GoIrish41

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Serious question: do you know anything about Mexico's immigration policy and how they treat illegal immigrants? And are you aware of the human rights' groups who have criticized Mexico's treatment of illegal immigrants?

I know nothing about their policy but I know they allow their own people to live in poverty to the point that they look to find a better life here. It would not shock me if they treated them poorly. But I would not want to be compared to a country whose own people are starving. We are better than that.
 

Rizzophil

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From Obama today

“We really are the only advanced democracy on earth that systematically and purposefully makes it really hard for people to vote,” Obama said Thursday when speaking at the University of Chicago School of Law. “There is no other country on earth that does that. There is a legacy to that that grows directly out of a history in which first propertied men, then white men, then white folks didn’t want women, minorities, to participate in the political process and be able to empower themselves in that fashion. That’s the history. We should be a society in which at this point we should say, yeah, that history is not so good.”

The only thing more astonishing that people believe this crap...is that he was elected twice.
 

GoIrish41

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From Obama today

“We really are the only advanced democracy on earth that systematically and purposefully makes it really hard for people to vote,” Obama said Thursday when speaking at the University of Chicago School of Law. “There is no other country on earth that does that. There is a legacy to that that grows directly out of a history in which first propertied men, then white men, then white folks didn’t want women, minorities, to participate in the political process and be able to empower themselves in that fashion. That’s the history. We should be a society in which at this point we should say, yeah, that history is not so good.”

The only thing more astonishing that people believe this crap...is that he was elected twice.

IDK, Seems like a pretty fair analysis to me. Why should people not believe what he said and why is it crap? Not trying to be a jerk, I seriously want to understand where you are coming from.
 

woolybug25

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From Obama today

“We really are the only advanced democracy on earth that systematically and purposefully makes it really hard for people to vote,” Obama said Thursday when speaking at the University of Chicago School of Law. “There is no other country on earth that does that. There is a legacy to that that grows directly out of a history in which first propertied men, then white men, then white folks didn’t want women, minorities, to participate in the political process and be able to empower themselves in that fashion. That’s the history. We should be a society in which at this point we should say, yeah, that history is not so good.”

The only thing more astonishing that people believe this crap...is that he was elected twice.

I'm with goirish on this. Are you really saying that's not true?
 

Polish Leppy 22

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I know nothing about their policy but I know they allow their own people to live in poverty to the point that they look to find a better life here. It would not shock me if they treated them poorly. But I would not want to be compared to a country whose own people are starving. We are better than that.

I'm not asking you to compare the greatest country in the world with Mexico. I'm asking you to do 5-10 minutes on their immigration policy. Hint: we treat illegal immigrants like victims of oppression, while Mexico treats illegal immigrants like criminals and handle them as such.
 

IrishJayhawk

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I'm not asking you to compare the greatest country in the world with Mexico. I'm asking you to do 5-10 minutes on their immigration policy. Hint: we treat illegal immigrants like victims of oppression, while Mexico treats illegal immigrants like criminals and handle them as such.

So? Are you advocating that we use them as our model?
 
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