2016 Presidential Horse Race

[MJ12666]

Efficiency.

One example. If pharmaceutical companies are held to similar rate structures as they are in the rest of the First World, the savings would be astronomical, and cut tremendous fat out of the cost of providing all or any health care.

And to save time, as I read it, everyone has the right to compete fairly, and to be rewarded for their success, not guaranteed exorbitant, or even obscene profits because they manage a monopoly, or have the most politicians in their pockets.

People talk about competition raising the standard of living, which may be true. But if it is, guiding against unlimited and unfair rewards based upon the power and greed of those in power, is just as necessary, and probably more important for a successful economic policy, and healthy economy.

Can you please explain this in a little more detail. Astronomical savings is a bit vague. Can you give maybe a range of the current cost and potential saving and how this will be achieved? I worked in the pharm. industry for approximately 25 years and I am a little skeptical but before I can comment I need to know a little more. If you can't give dollar amounts then can you simply provide a general outline of how the savings will be achieved by the government in order to turn "$1.00 into $1.50" with regards to pharmaceuticals?

 

[pkt77242]

Can you please explain this in a little more detail. Astronomical savings is a bit vague. Can you give maybe a range of the current cost and potential saving and how this will be achieved? I worked in the pharm. industry for approximately 25 years and I am a little skeptical but before I can comment I need to know a little more. If you can't give dollar amounts then can you simply provide a general outline of how the savings will be achieved by the government in order to turn "$1.00 into $1.50" with regards to pharmaceuticals?

Exclusive - Transatlantic divide: how U.S. pays three times more for drugs | Reuters

U.S. prices for the world's 20 top-selling medicines are, on average, three times higher than in Britain, according to an analysis carried out for Reuters.

Now I am not saying saying that we should have the exact same prices as the U.K. or that there isn't consequences for lower priced drugs (such as reduced R&D by the companies) but there is little doubt that on average we pay significantly more than other countries for pharmaceuticals. It is one of the reasons that healthcare spending is so high in this country.

ETA: For example we spent almost 400 Billion on pharmaceuticals in 2014, so if we were paying the U.K. prices (and the price difference is similar across all drugs not just the top 20) you are talking a significant amount of savings.

Americans Spent a Record Amount on Medicine

 

[kmoose]

Now I am not saying saying that we should have the exact same prices as the U.K. or that there isn't consequences for lower priced drugs (such as reduced R&D by the companies) but there is little doubt that on average we pay significantly more than other countries for pharmaceuticals. It is one of the reasons that healthcare spending is so high in this country.

ETA: For example we spent almost 400 Billion on pharmaceuticals in 2014, so if we were paying the U.K. prices (and the price difference is similar across all drugs not just the top 20) you are talking a significant amount of savings.

Americans Spent a Record Amount on Medicine

So you'll be voting for Trump, or Sanders? Because none of the other possible nominees are going to do anything about it...

 

[IrishLion]

That's completely misguided. With very few exceptions, almost anyone can go to a state school and graduate very near debt-free, assuming they work at least part time while in school and full time in the summer.

I went to a state school, with in-state tuition benefits... but my parents were right in that sweet spot where they made too much money for me to qualify for aid, but not enough money to help pay for my education. I had to foot the bill via student loans for four years of education. The biggest thing that I will help my children with in the future is seeking out scholarship opportunities.

Anyway, I worked on campus for all four years in a student job making good money supervising other students, and worked more than full time during the summer, and I STILL couldn't graduate debt free, because I was paying for my own living expenses.

Also, I reject the notion that student debt is so outrageously difficult to get out of. I had $25K paid off within two years of graduation.

My wife and I make decent money, and thankfully she graduated debt-free because she had a family member working on campus. But I have about the same in student loans to pay, and it's a huge detriment to trying to save any money, especially when everyday occurrences pop up in life. I have no idea how you were able to pay $1000/month towards your loans, unless you were living rent-free and didn't have a car payment haha.

 

[RyCo1983]

PA state Primary today.
Neither Trump nor Hillary will even taste my vote.

Yay Democracy/Oligarchy

 

[BleedBlueGold]

PA state Primary today.
Neither Trump nor Hillary will even taste my vote.

Yay Democracy/Oligarchy

The PA primary is April 26th. I'm confused.

 

[BleedBlueGold]

Someone at work asked a question, and I'd like to forward it:

If Trump literally destroys what we all know as the Grand Old Party. What will arise in its place?

Is it possible that two parties emerge? Perhaps the Trumpian Party mostly focusing on white nationalism? And then perhaps a conservative party that becomes a little more socially progressive?

I mean if you ask me, I'd love to see a traditional conservative's approach to the economy while also being less of a war hawk and more socially accepting of race/religions/gender equality/gay rights/etc. Is that even possible? Some of you know a hell of a lot more than I do about the philosophies behind each ideology. I'm asking if new parties are formed, what do they look like and how do they fit in with 21st century America?

 

[BGIF]

The PA primary is April 26th. I'm confused.

Your not the confused one. Both Dems and GOP hold PA Primaries on April 26.


Next Caucus is GOP's in N.D. on 4/2-4/3.

Next Primary (D&R) is Wisconsin on 4/5.

 

[ACamp1900]

I mean if you ask me, I'd love to see a traditional conservative's approach to the economy while also being less of a war hawk and more socially accepting of race/religions/gender equality/gay rights/etc.

I've been in this camp (more of less) since I left the Democrat party ~2001... I get more and more jaded with every election cycle. I'm to the point where I don't even really care anymore and I hear stuff coming out of my mouth that I used to criticize my 'cynical friends' for saying.

 

[BGIF]

I've been in this camp (more of less) since I left the Democrat party ~2001... I get more and more jaded with every election cycle. I'm to the point where I don't even really care anymore and I hear stuff coming out of my mouth that I used to criticize my 'cynical friends' for saying.

You old white guys are all the same.

 

[ACamp1900]

You old white guys are all the same.

Scottish... I stand not with your kind.

 

[BGIF]

Scottish... I stand not with your kind.

My two Scottish Terriers tend to go their own way, too. My wife say they're not stubborn just fiercely independent.

 

[Wild Bill]

That's probably the tradeoff for these banks risking billions of dollars on people who mostly have no credit history, and risking those billions at much lower interest rates than the borrowers credit score would otherwise indicate. But the idea behind the programs is to help the person avoid extreme measures like bankruptcy.

Their risk is rewarded by the interest paid on the loans, just like every other creditor. Why should they be given special treatment?

If I make bad decisions like financing a home with little to no money down, buy a car with a high interest rate, furnish my new home on credit and throw some vacations on a charge card, I can simply file a bankruptcy and release my obligation to pay.

But if I make a bad decision to overextend myself while financing my education, I'm not provided the same type of relief.

Seems strange to provide extraordinary relief to those who overspend on frivolous bullshit while denying the same relief to those who overspend on their education.

For the record, I'm not looking for a handout from tax payers. I've paid $1,100 per month for my student loans the last seven years and I still oppose so called free college tuition and student loan forgiveness. I do, however, take issue with the preferential treatment given to student loan lenders in the bankruptcy code (and no, I haven't filed nor would I).

 

[kmoose]

Their risk is rewarded by the interest paid on the loans, just like every other creditor. Why should they be given special treatment?

Because their interest rates are kept artificially low. WAY below the rate that would normally be charged for a loan given to someone with so little credit history. So it's NOT "just like every other creditor".

 

[RyCo1983]

Yeah. I WAS way off. Haha.
No sure why, but for some reason that thought was stuck in my head!

 

[woolybug25]

Their risk is rewarded by the interest paid on the loans, just like every other creditor. Why should they be given special treatment?

If I make bad decisions like financing a home with little to no money down, buy a car with a high interest rate, furnish my new home on credit and throw some vacations on a charge card, I can simply file a bankruptcy and release my obligation to pay.

But if I make a bad decision to overextend myself while financing my education, I'm not provided the same type of relief.

Seems strange to provide extraordinary relief to those who overspend on frivolous bullshit while denying the same relief to those who overspend on their education.

For the record, I'm not looking for a handout from tax payers. I've paid $1,100 per month for my student loans the last seven years and I still oppose so called free college tuition and student loan forgiveness. I do, however, take issue with the preferential treatment given to student loan lenders in the bankruptcy code (and no, I haven't filed nor would I).

As Moose said, that would be fine if they weren't A) forced to give loans without proper risk assessment or underwriting. B) mandated by rate limitations set by government.

A loan for $100k to an 18 year old kid with no credit history, no collateral and no current ability to cash flow the debt should have an astronomical rate. The risk is huge. I think it's a little unfair to also make them victims of the bankruptcy courts as well.

I will say this... Financial institutions would happily take the bankruptcy risk if they were allowed to assess the former.

 

[NorthDakota]

Because their interest rates are kept artificially low. WAY below the rate that would normally be charged for a loan given to someone with so little credit history. So it's NOT "just like every other creditor".

Yeah my loans are currently at a whopping 2.1%. they were previously at 1.75%.

 

[pkt77242]

That's probably the tradeoff for these banks risking billions of dollars on people who mostly have no credit history, and risking those billions at much lower interest rates than the borrowers credit score would otherwise indicate. But the idea behind the programs is to help the person avoid extreme measures like bankruptcy.

Because their interest rates are kept artificially low. WAY below the rate that would normally be charged for a loan given to someone with so little credit history. So it's NOT "just like every other creditor".

Banks don't really make many student loans anymore. Since 2010 the government makes the loans (all Stafford and Perkins loans). So the government is risking money in order to have a well educated society that can hold down good jobs and pay taxes back to them. The government profits two ways both off of student loans (though disproportionately off of graduate loans, undergrad loans are about a wash but that is somewhat due to subsidizing a fair amount of them) and off of the students future income because of the education.

Interest rates are low because the government is providing them. I read an article somewhere that the government is expected to profit something like 120 billion over the next 10 years from student loans.

 

[gkIrish]

Because their interest rates are kept artificially low. WAY below the rate that would normally be charged for a loan given to someone with so little credit history. So it's NOT "just like every other creditor".

My average rate is 7.2%. Do you think that is low?

My credit score is in the mid to high 700s.

I believe current mortgage rates are between 3-4%

 

[ACamp1900]

7 is pretty dang high for student loans these days... have you tried refi??

 

[Wild Bill]

Because their interest rates are kept artificially low. WAY below the rate that would normally be charged for a loan given to someone with so little credit history. So it's NOT "just like every other creditor".

That's not entirely accurate. Not all loans are kept artificially low or subsidized to any extent. Most of mine are tied to the LIBOR and the others are fixed at 6.8%, not exactly a handout given the rates right now.

I would agree they would charge a higher rate if the debts were dischargeable. And for the reasons Wooly stated before, I don't think that's a bad thing. Let them scrutinize candidates. We'd all be better off. I doubt the creditors would take that trade. They enjoy their current status.

 

[gkIrish]

7 is pretty dang high for student loans these days... have you tried refi??

I will be looking into that more shortly. I am concerned that there may be some sort of forgiveness in the future and I won't be able to benefit from it.

 

[woolybug25]

My average rate is 7.2%. Do you think that is low?

My credit score is in the mid to high 700s.

I believe current mortgage rates are between 3-4%

I think you should be able to refinance those with your current risk profile. There are options for that, but many of those would be different debt products and you would lose your bankruptcy protection.

For instance, you could do a home equity loan.

7% as a student with no credit history, no collateral and no current ability to cash flow the payments is extremely low in my opinion.

 

[ACamp1900]

I will be looking into that more shortly. I am concerned that there may be some sort of forgiveness in the future and I won't be able to benefit from it.

Fedloans? Because you SHOULD be able to get lower rates there and if there is any forgiveness they'd obviously be included....

 

[woolybug25]

That's not entirely accurate. Not all loans are kept artificially low or subsidized to any extent. Most of mine are tied to the LIBOR and the others are fixed at 6.8%, not exactly a handout given the rates right now.

I would agree they would charge a higher rate if the debts were dischargeable. And for the reasons Wooly stated before, I don't think that's a bad thing. Let them scrutinize candidates. We'd all be better off. I doubt the creditors would take that trade. They enjoy their current status.

That's not true, banks would take that trade in a second. There is a reason large banks don't want anything to do with these loans. If you let banks choose who, how much and at what terms, then you would definitely see more banks wanting to get into the business. Even if they weren't protected by bankruptcy law and rate.

Libor is only the base rate in which it has to be tied to, the spread over that is the rate of return. That rate of return is capped.

 

[NorthDakota]

7 is pretty dang high for student loans these days... have you tried refi??

Mine were set to be in the 7-8% range. Refinancing/Consolidation is a magical thing.

 

[gkIrish]

What consolidation service would you guys recommend looking into?

My loans are mostly federal.

 

[IrishLax]

Debt free life is nice*

*... but in two months I will assume responsibility for the 4 years worth of ND loans my fiance has...

 

[IrishLax]

Where did this happen? She better damn well be fired. That is harassment, racism and unprofessional behavior. Can you imagine if that was two white people cornering a black guy with straightened hair and said this same thing?

San Francisco State University. The end is the best after she realizes her shit has been caught on camera.

By far the best part though is dreadlocks aren't even "black culture"... so she sure picked a strange hill to die on.

 

[koonja]

What consolidation service would you guys recommend looking into?

My loans are mostly federal.

SoFi. Takes like 3 days to get a response and the app is relatively easy. I've had 2 friends go from between 5-8% to 3.5% each.