2016 Presidential Horse Race

2016 Presidential Horse Race


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GoIrish41

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Thank you, Captain Obvious.

If it is so obvious that a candidate who doesn't have 1237 delegates does not automatically get the nomination, what was the purpose of such a prediction? If he doesn't meet that threshold, then he seems to be making a call to arms for his supporters. That seems fairly obvious, Captain.
 

kmoose

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If it is so obvious that a candidate who doesn't have 1237 delegates does not automatically get the nomination, what was the purpose of such a prediction? If he doesn't meet that threshold, then he seems to be making a call to arms for his supporters. That seems fairly obvious, Captain.

Listen, seaman........ let me go slow for you.......... He never said that anyone SHOULD riot. Nor did he say that there would be riots if he simply didn't get the nomination. He said that people would be unhappy if the Republican leadership used some backroom tactics to swing the nomination to someone with SIGNIFICANTLY less delegates earned than him. He added, rather off-handedly, that there would probably be riots. It's as ridiculous as the assertion of some that Hillary Clinton's reaction to 4 Americans dying in Benghazi was "What does it matter?" It's simply not accurate.
 

phgreek

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Listen, seaman........ let me go slow for you.......... He never said that anyone SHOULD riot. Nor did he say that there would be riots if he simply didn't get the nomination. He said that people would be unhappy if the Republican leadership used some backroom tactics to swing the nomination to someone with SIGNIFICANTLY less delegates earned than him. He added, rather off-handedly, that there would probably be riots. It's as ridiculous as the assertion of some that Hillary Clinton's reaction to 4 Americans dying in Benghazi was "What does it matter?" It's simply not accurate.

...I mean, Trump does incite things...but in this case I'd have to say he is just saying what I've been thinking since the brokered convention became likely/possible.

There is also a ton of sentiment on the left that the DNC and press have effed over Bernie.

I think EVERYONE will be watching, and if the Republicans aren't careful they are going to set in motion a chain of events that ends in tragedy...and similar sentiment may spill over into Democrats. Washington DC is teetering on triggering a shit-storm right now...but they still do not believe in the anger out there...SMH.
 

GoIrish41

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Listen, seaman........ let me go slow for you.......... He never said that anyone SHOULD riot. Nor did he say that there would be riots if he simply didn't get the nomination. He said that people would be unhappy if the Republican leadership used some backroom tactics to swing the nomination to someone with SIGNIFICANTLY less delegates earned than him. He added, rather off-handedly, that there would probably be riots. It's as ridiculous as the assertion of some that Hillary Clinton's reaction to 4 Americans dying in Benghazi was "What does it matter?" It's simply not accurate.

And here we are talking about his comments. What do you suppose the more rabid Trump supporters are saying when they talk about what he suggested? You know, the guys who are beating people up at his rallies. I'm sure they are giving it the same measured thought that you are and being careful not to step beyond the precision of his language on the topic. But maybe his words on riots were intended as a shot across the bow (seaman talk) of anyone who would not support his candidacy even if he didn't reach the threshold he needs to ensure he is the candidate. He planted the idea of violence into an already demonstrably violent group of supporters. What do you suspect would happen if he came to the convention with 1203 delegates, went through the first vote, and then lost convention delegates on the second vote in favor of Mitt Romney or Little Marco or Liar Ted? What if someone else besides him got the nomination, even though Trump had the most votes (but not enough)? I'm sure all those angry mouthbreathers he has whipped into a frenzy for the past year will take it all in stride, realizing that those are the rules of the convention. Right?
 

BleedBlueGold

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...I mean, Trump does incite things...but in this case I'd have to say he is just saying what I've been thinking since the brokered convention became likely/possible.

There is also a ton of sentiment on the left that the DNC and press have effed over Bernie.

I think EVERYONE will be watching, and if the Republicans aren't careful they are going to set in motion a chain of events that ends in tragedy...and similar sentiment may spill over into Democrats. Washington DC is teetering on triggering a shit-storm right now...but they still do not believe in the anger out there...SMH.

Agree
 

GoIrish41

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...I mean, Trump does incite things...but in this case I'd have to say he is just saying what I've been thinking since the brokered convention became likely/possible.

There is also a ton of sentiment on the left that the DNC and press have effed over Bernie.

I think EVERYONE will be watching, and if the Republicans aren't careful they are going to set in motion a chain of events that ends in tragedy...and similar sentiment may spill over into Democrats. Washington DC is teetering on triggering a shit-storm right now...but they still do not believe in the anger out there...SMH.

Good post.

I suspect Bernie voters will take out their frustrations by staying home on election day in protest. I seriously doubt they would riot. The danger of Trump is that he is encouraging violence, whether implicitly or explicitly. Bernie is not.
 

BleedBlueGold

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And here we are talking about his comments. What do you suppose the more rabid Trump supporters are saying when they talk about what he suggested? You know, the guys who are beating people up at his rallies. I'm sure they are giving it the same measured thought that you are and being careful not to step beyond the precision of his language on the topic. But maybe his words on riots were intended as a shot across the bow (seaman talk) of anyone who would not support his candidacy even if he didn't reach the threshold he needs to ensure he is the candidate. He planted the idea of violence into an already demonstrably violent group of supporters. What do you suspect would happen if he came to the convention with 1203 delegates, went through the first vote, and then lost convention delegates on the second vote in favor of Mitt Romney or Little Marco or Liar Ted? What if someone else besides him got the nomination, even though Trump had the most votes (but not enough)? I'm sure all those angry mouthbreathers he has whipped into a frenzy for the past year will take it all in stride, realizing that those are the rules of the convention. Right?

See 1968 Dem Convention: Violence Batters 1968 Democratic Convention Video - The 1960s - HISTORY.com

I've been saying it for awhile. Shit will absolutely hit the fan.
 

RDU Irish

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So I think the Philadelphia Eagles are totally responsible for fights that break out in every game they in which they play. They should not be allowed to play because they have fans that are unfettered d-bags with no self control. Or any bar that has a brawl should be put out of business since they cannot control their patrons.

Sorry - is this the wrong thread for that idea?
 

FightingIrishLover7

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So I think the Philadelphia Eagles are totally responsible for fights that break out in every game they in which they play. They should not be allowed to play because they have fans that are unfettered d-bags with no self control. Or any bar that has a brawl should be put out of business since they cannot control their patrons.

Sorry - is this the wrong thread for that idea?
I don't think the Eagles promote violence, or offer to pay for legal fees.

That, condones violence. You're comparing apples and oranges here...
 

yankeehater

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Has it been discussed that George Soros and MoveOn.org have been funding the protesters? They are currently accepting donations and have plans to keep the movement going through the convention. They have been caught on tape expressing the fact that there will be violence coming from their group. I have heard this movement will be dubbed Democratic Spring.
 

BleedBlueGold

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So I think the Philadelphia Eagles are totally responsible for fights that break out in every game they in which they play. They should not be allowed to play because they have fans that are unfettered d-bags with no self control. Or any bar that has a brawl should be put out of business since they cannot control their patrons.

Sorry - is this the wrong thread for that idea?

I don't think the Eagles promote violence, or offer to pay for legal fees.

That, condones violence. You're comparing apples and oranges here...

Correct. A better example would be if the owner of the Eagles came on the jumbotron before a game and called for fans to rough up the Cowboy fans in the crowd. Then when fights break out, don't do anything to stop it, and in fact claim that you'll cover the legal fees.
 

kmoose

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I don't think the Eagles promote violence

"They stab it with their steely knives, but they just can't kill the beast."

"She held him up, and he held her for ransom, in the heart of the cold cold city"

"Somebody's gonna hurt someone before the night is through. Somebody's gonna come undone, there's nothing we can do."

The Eagles absolutely promote violence through their violent rhetoric....

:wink:
 

RDU Irish

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I find it hilarious that people are shocked, shocked I tell you!, that Trump has support from the silent majority who really just want someone to punch idiots in the face for being whiny, gimme, self-righteous pricks telling everyone else what they should be morally obligated to say, think and do.
 

phgreek

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Has it been discussed that George Soros and MoveOn.org have been funding the protesters? They are currently accepting donations and have plans to keep the movement going through the convention. They have been caught on tape expressing the fact that there will be violence coming from their group. I have heard this movement will be dubbed Democratic Spring.

No...It just seems like bringing up Soros always begets those radical Koch brothers, and it turns into a pissing match of another flavor instead of the pissing match at hand.

Yes that Asshat is always fomenting violence...he is just better than Trump...or shall we say stealthier.
 

irishfan

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I find it hilarious that people are shocked, shocked I tell you!, that Trump has support from the silent majority who really just want someone to punch idiots in the face for being whiny, gimme, self-righteous pricks telling everyone else what they should be morally obligated to say, think and do.

^yep

I am pretty neutral towards Trump. I don't think he's nearly as bad as the media makes him out to be. I don't particularly like him either (although I do think he's entertaining). His support is pretty big in Massachusetts. I know for a fact a lot of his support here is "Trump pisses off the people who piss me off" aka what is usually the overly-PC crowd.

Shutting down highways or showing up to his rallies in KKK gear annoys me way more than some idiot punching a protester. You're going to find idiots everywhere. The guy has rallies just about every day. While Trump has obviously said some regrettable things for condoning violence and bears a lot of the responsibility for his supporters acting out, I personally get more annoyed by the swarms of protesters who shut down streets. The .1% of his supporters who get baited into doing something stupid on the fly are one thing. The protesters who decide to dress up in Klan gear or bike-lock themselves to a car to stop traffic are going to annoy a larger percentage of people in the middle. There's a reason his numbers go up every time there is any sort of attack on him from the left protesting.
 
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GoIrish41

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See 1968 Dem Convention: Violence Batters 1968 Democratic Convention Video - The 1960s - HISTORY.com

I've been saying it for awhile. Shit will absolutely hit the fan.

The circumstances that led to 1968 more closely mirrored what is going on in the Republican Party right now. Following the RFK assassination, no candidates came to the convention with enough delegates to win the nomination. Back room deals inserted Humphrey as the nominee and all hell broke loose. George Wallace who ran through the primaries as a Democrat ended up running as as a third party candidate and Humphrey got slaughtered in the election.

The uproar and violence that erupted in the Democratic party did not spill over to the Republicans. They were content to sit back and watch the Democrats implode. If there is a contested convention and Trump does not get the nomination, we can expect about the same scenario to play out on the Republican side this year. If we take Trump's suggestion of what will happen, I am with you though -- it absolutely could be worse than 1968. But don't expect Dems to join that madness. They will be too busy measuring the curtains in the White House.
 

BleedBlueGold

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The circumstances that led to 1968 more closely mirrored what is going on in the Republican Party right now. Following the RFK assassination, no candidates came to the convention with enough delegates to win the nomination. Back room deals inserted Humphrey as the nominee and all hell broke loose. George Wallace who ran through the primaries as a Democrat ended up running as as a third party candidate and Humphrey got slaughtered in the election.

The uproar and violence that erupted in the Democratic party did not spill over to the Republicans. They were content to sit back and watch the Democrats implode. If there is a contested convention and Trump does not get the nomination, we can expect about the same scenario to play out on the Republican side this year. If we take Trump's suggestion of what will happen, I am with you though -- it absolutely could be worse than 1968. But don't expect Dems to join that madness. They will be too busy measuring the curtains in the White House.

I'm aware of all of this. It's why I posted it for others to see as an example of what could (and probably will) happen if Trump gets the most delegates but somehow doesn't get the nomination. In my personal opinion, it'll make 1968 look like prom.
 

NDgradstudent

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The NYT sneered at Trump when he made remarks a couple months ago about the dangers of mass Muslim immigration into Belgium:

Donald Trump Finds New City to Insult: Brussels

LONDON — He incensed Paris and London by saying that some of their neighborhoods were so overrun with radicals that the police were too scared to enter.

He raised Scottish tempers by threatening to pull the plug on his investments there, including his luxury golf courses, if British politicians barred him from entering Britain.

Now Donald J. Trump has upset the already beleaguered people of Belgium, calling its capital, Brussels, “a hellhole.”

Asked by the Fox Business Network anchor Maria Bartiromo about the feasibility of his proposal to bar foreign Muslims from entering the United States, Mr. Trump argued that Belgium and France had been blighted by the failure of Muslims in these countries to integrate.

“There is something going on, Maria,” he said. “Go to Brussels. Go to Paris. Go to different places. There is something going on and it’s not good, where they want Shariah law, where they want this, where they want things that — you know, there has to be some assimilation. There is no assimilation. There is something bad going on.”

Warming to his theme, he added that Brussels was in a particularly dire state. “You go to Brussels — I was in Brussels a long time ago, 20 years ago, so beautiful, everything is so beautiful — it’s like living in a hellhole right now,” Mr. Trump continued.

Belgium has come under scrutiny for failing to tame growing radicalization. Éric Zemmour, a French writer, recently suggested in an interview that rather than bombing the Islamic State’s self-declared capital of Raqqa, Syria, France should bomb Molenbeek, the working-class district in Brussels where several of the Paris attackers lived.

Most Belgian officials reacted with quiet defiance. “We don’t react to Mr. Trump’s comments,” the office of Mayor Yvan Mayeur of Brussels said in an email. “Have a nice day.”

Rudi Vervoort, the president of the Brussels region, said through his spokeswoman that he was surprised by Mr. Trump’s words. “We can reassure the Americans that Brussels is a multicultural city where it is good to live,” said the spokeswoman, Leonôr da Silva, listing the city’s virtues: green spaces, a tolerant culture and its central place in Europe.

Jean-Philippe Schreiber, a historian at the Université Libre de Bruxelles, said Mr. Trump was stirring up xenophobia. Brussels has its problems, he added, but Mr. Trump’s “hyperbolic” comments were not worthy of a response.

Indeed, Belgians could be forgiven for their sense of wounded pride. First, there is the beer, the galaxy of Michelin starred-restaurants, and a thriving design and art scene. Brussels also hosts its beloved Manneken Pis, a 17th-century bronze statue of a little boy urinating.

Channeling Mr. Trump’s provocative swagger, Mark Meirsman, a Belgian who works for the European Parliament, but who emphasized that he was writing in his personal capacity, wrote on Facebook that Mr. Trump should stand next to the Manneken Pis the next time he finds himself in Brussels (though not, Mr. Meirsman stressed, as president).

“Thank you for insulting the population of an entire European city. My city!” Mr. Meirsman wrote. “O.K., maybe it’s not the cleanest one, the best organized one but a hellhole?”

From Twitter this morning:

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Don't come to the airport - airport is being evacuated. Avoid the airport area. Flights have been cancelled.</p>— Brussels Airport (@BrusselsAirport) <a href="https://twitter.com/BrusselsAirport/status/712184823893331968">March 22, 2016</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Belgian prime minister warns public to stay where they are for the time being <a href="https://t.co/yLxge3eTNV">https://t.co/yLxge3eTNV</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Brussels?src=hash">#Brussels</a> <a href="https://t.co/Z2hrPzOvKf">https://t.co/Z2hrPzOvKf</a></p>— BBC Breaking News (@BBCBreaking) <a href="https://twitter.com/BBCBreaking/status/712217107509993472">March 22, 2016</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Maybe there should be less sneering at Trump and more anger at Belgian and EU politicians for allowing this sort of thing to happen.
 
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GoIrish41

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I find it hilarious that people are shocked, shocked I tell you!, that Trump has support from the silent majority who really just want someone to punch idiots in the face for being whiny, gimme, self-righteous pricks telling everyone else what they should be morally obligated to say, think and do.

Except they are neither silent or a majority, and wanting to do something and actually doing it are two different things. And those are really not at all the issues driving this campaign. The primary driver, IMO, is demonizing immigrants. There literally has not been another coherent policy advocated by Trump throughout the process.

Many of us on the left have long recognized a large part of the Republican Party is driven by race, and we've taken a lot of shit every time we brought it up. But we weren't wrong. And I think a good portion of the Republican party has recognized that. That's part of the reason they are openly talking about keeping the nomination from him.

Not all Trump support comes from racists, but almost equally troubling is the seeming indifference that his other supporters have to all of the racial components playing out in this campaign. "I support Trump because he speaks his mind" and wants to "Make America Great Again" overcomes the fact that what he is speaking his mind about is bigotry and there is at least some indication that when America was considered "great" was the era before civil and voter rights became guaranteed by US law.

Not saying that makes them all a bunch of racists, but they are certainly willfully rubbing elbows with them. And, their desire to step back the legislative timeline to an era in which minorities "knew their place" is a bit troubling. Such a move would also bring with it regressive policy that affected a lot of folks negatively in our not too recent past. Even if that isn't the driving factor for all Trump supporters, it is a pretty overt feature of the campaign that they are going along with. Ignoring that and supporting him anyway is almost as bad as being an outspoken bigot. Given the lack of substance on any other issues whatsoever, what are we on the left supposed to conclude about Trump supporters and from a broader view, the whole of the Republican Party? For me, it is just the same as I have always suspected. Trump has merely exposed this ugly truth.
 

ACamp1900

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^yep

I am pretty neutral towards Trump. I don't think he's nearly as bad as the media makes him out to be. I don't particularly like him either (although I do think he's entertaining). His support is pretty big in Massachusetts. I know for a fact a lot of his support here is "Trump pisses off the people who piss me off" aka what is usually the overly-PC crowd.

Shutting down highways or showing up to his rallies in KKK gear annoys me way more than some idiot punching a protester. You're going to find idiots everywhere. The guy has rallies just about every day. While Trump has obviously said some regrettable things for condoning violence and bears a lot of the responsibility for his supporters acting out, I personally get more annoyed by the swarms of protesters who shut down streets. The .1% of his supporters who get baited into doing something stupid on the fly are one thing. The protesters who decide to dress up in Klan gear or bike-lock themselves to a car to stop traffic are going to annoy a larger percentage of people in the middle. There's a reason his numbers go up every time there is any sort of attack on him from the left protesting.

I tend to agree with the main points here... I do know this, the protester thing and the outcry over it has made me laugh a number of times for many of the reasons you touched on but I haven't felt compelled to post on or discuss it anywhere since I have no desire to really defend Trump, or come off as such, for completely different reasons/issues... but overall this was a good post, agreed.
 
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GoIrish41

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I'm aware of all of this. It's why I posted it for others to see as an example of what could (and probably will) happen if Trump gets the most delegates but somehow doesn't get the nomination. In my personal opinion, it'll make 1968 look like prom.

Gotcha. Thought you were agreeing with a previous post that suggested the violence would spill over into the Democratic party because of the perception that Bernie is getting screwed, too. As this does not appear to be the case, I completely agree with you. This is going to be a fiasco, and America is going to blame the republicans for their irresponsible base pushing this guy into the candidacy. It's going to be devastating for the republican party and a dark day for the country. Of course I hope I'm completely wrong about this. But, I don't think I am.
 

IrishLax

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The thing that pisses me off the most about Trump is I'd totally support a "blow up the whole system, eff the PC police" candidate if they were a candidate of any substance and remotely respectable. But he's neither of those. He has no policy positions that are supported by anything other than inane blather, and he is universally reviled to a level that will make him an incapable leader on both domestic issues and international ones.

So I get why on the surface he appeals to many people, but ultimately he's gas station sushi.
 

kmoose

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The thing that pisses me off the most about Trump is I'd totally support a "blow up the whole system, eff the PC police" candidate if they were a candidate of any substance and remotely respectable. But he's neither of those. He has no policy positions that are supported by anything other than inane blather, and he is universally reviled to a level that will make him an incapable leader on both domestic issues and international ones.

So I get why on the surface he appeals to many people, but ultimately he's gas station sushi.

^^This^^
 

BleedBlueGold

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Gotcha. Thought you were agreeing with a previous post that suggested the violence would spill over into the Democratic party because of the perception that Bernie is getting screwed, too. As this does not appear to be the case, I completely agree with you. This is going to be a fiasco, and America is going to blame the republicans for their irresponsible base pushing this guy into the candidacy. It's going to be devastating for the republican party and a dark day for the country. Of course I hope I'm completely wrong about this. But, I don't think I am.

I don't think there will be spill over into the Dem party if this Trump thing turns into a fiasco as we're describing.

On another note, I do feel Bernie isn't getting a fair shake but that wasn't supposed to come across in my post, so my bad if it wasn't clear.

You know it's funny when I talk casually to friends and family about The Donald and how many of them dislike him but don't fully understand the ramifications if he gets screwed out of his nomination (whether it be earned outright or otherwise). I constantly hear, "Well he's not going to win so it doesn't matter." I feel like so many people who try to purposely stay clear of politics are going to be shocked and terrified when the shit actually hits the fan. They'll probably blame Obama.
 
K

koonja

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I don't follow elections at all, but Trump scares me because of his potential influence on kids. If our president can be an arrogant know it all, what does that do to entitlement? Imagine controlling classrooms.
 

Whiskeyjack

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The thing that pisses me off the most about Trump is I'd totally support a "blow up the whole system, eff the PC police" candidate if they were a candidate of any substance and remotely respectable. But he's neither of those. He has no policy positions that are supported by anything other than inane blather, and he is universally reviled to a level that will make him an incapable leader on both domestic issues and international ones.

So I get why on the surface he appeals to many people, but ultimately he's gas station sushi.

Agreed. Trump has at least gestured in the right direction on some important issues, but there's no reason to believe he'll follow through on any of it. Dougherty wrote an article about it last week:

For just a moment it seemed that Donald Trump's bid for the presidency contained the seeds of an ideological revolution. Trump had tapped into something that felt like a fresh European import, an ideological right wing motivated by populist nationalism rather than conservatism.

Like European rightists in Hungary and Poland, he wanted a wall to shut out "invading" immigrants. Like the Front Nationale in France, he showed no taste for dismantling the welfare state, only in putting its levers of power to work for his native clients. Like UKIP in Britain, a map of where his strongest supporters live is practically a map of the nation's deindustrialization.

In Trump we suddenly seemed to have the kind of culture warrior imagined by thinkers like James Burnham, who opposed liberalism not because it offends the Constitution or runs roughshod over the little platoons of civil society, but because it is the verbal justification for the contraction of Western societies: the diminution of their military power and the demographic decline of their native populations.

Instead of professing loyalty to a free market that is indifferent when choosing between Americans and foreigners, Trump acknowledged that trade can be a form of economic competition, not just cooperation. And so he promised to change the rules of the game to favor Americans again.

Further, Trump pit the cost of foreign wars against the interests of Americans, asking people to imagine where America would be if the country had invested all those trillions spent on a war in Iraq in America instead. Because Trumpism seemed to be generated by global economic shifts, and because he was so easy to connect to global trends in politics, he suddenly seemed inevitable and formidable.

But over the past few months, there has been a lot of evidence that Trump's populist-nationalism is disintegrating. In September he released a tax-reform plan that is much beloved by the most anti-nationalist conservative thinkers around. In fact it is the very thing that Beltway creatures like Stephen Moore of the Club for Growth cite when they try to explain their sudden and perplexing support for Donald Trump.

Trump has also sounded completely out of his depth on immigration, much to the chagrin of his restrictionist fans. In a debate in Detroit, where Trump would supposedly have some of his most nationalist-minded fans, Trump said, "I'm changing. I'm changing. We need highly skilled people in this country, and if we can't do it, we'll get them in." He described his position on immigration as "softening" and then long-windedly explained why Americans would not take seasonal jobs on some of Trump's American properties. One of the reasons he offered was the weather. That's right, the pro-American-worker Trump says that America is just too hot for American workers. Trump also pushed "touchback" amnesty, where illegal immigrants are granted legal status if they go home and obtain a guest-worker pass from an employer. Suddenly the "big beautiful door" in the Mexican border wall sounds a lot bigger. As Trump has begun to emphasize about immigration, "everything is negotiable."

Trump's non-interventionism also seems to be on the table. In the Detroit debate he talked about creating "safe zones" in Syria to stem the refugee flow. And in the Miami debate he said he would commit ground troops to Syria and Iraq: "We really have no choice, we have to knock out ISIS... I would listen to the generals, but I'm hearing numbers of 20,000-30,000." It is unclear which generals have Trump's ear, but the number of troops he cited sounds remarkably like he has been told about Frederick Kagan's white paper on defeating ISIS. Essentially, Trump endorsed the plan for Iraq and Syria that has been promoted lustily by Lindsey Graham and Marco Rubio. In other words, gone is the America-first foreign policy, in comes the non-credible plan to transform the region again through force of arms, with America leading a mythical, and surely quite moderate, Sunni fighting force.

As Ben Carson aptly put it last week, "There are two Donald Trumps." Indeed, Trump has confessed he plans to change from nationalist caterpillar into establishmentarian butterfly. "When I'm president I'm a different person. I can do anything. I can be the most politically correct person you have ever seen."

Indeed, the transformation is already showing. On policy, Trump is caving to normal Republicanism. He's trying to get elected by pining for someone to finish the dang fence but has amnesty on the mind. He's promising to protect American workers from unfair competition, but angling to pass a plutocratic tax reform. By the end of his campaign the only thing he'll have added to the Republican Party is a reputation for crudity and disorderly violence.

His nationalist challenge to the status quo is disintegrating before our eyes. Instead of the inevitable transformation of the American right, Donald Trump is just the most successful huckster, selling gold coins and survival seeds to a scared public.
 

GoIrish41

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I don't think there will be spill over into the Dem party if this Trump thing turns into a fiasco as we're describing.

On another note, I do feel Bernie isn't getting a fair shake but that wasn't supposed to come across in my post, so my bad if it wasn't clear.

You know it's funny when I talk casually to friends and family about The Donald and how many of them dislike him but don't fully understand the ramifications if he gets screwed out of his nomination (whether it be earned outright or otherwise). I constantly hear, "Well he's not going to win so it doesn't matter." I feel like so many people who try to purposely stay clear of politics are going to be shocked and terrified when the shit actually hits the fan. They'll probably blame Obama.

I think my drawing Bernie into your argument was due to me reading another post. My fault, not yours. Its going to be ugly either way. We'll either have a real and frightening prospect of a Trump presidency, or we'll have a redneck rebellion. Yikes!
 

calvegas04

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I don't follow elections at all, but Trump scares me because of his potential influence on kids. If our president can be an arrogant know it all, what does that do to entitlement? Imagine controlling classrooms.

you think teachers are in control of class rooms now?

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/cy53HMmMHYs" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
 

ACamp1900

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My sister still works in K-6.. She was just telling me that last week a 5th grader told her flat out... "You can't make me be quiet, if you try to, I'll get you fired." Now he's not entirely correct there of course but the fact that their minds even go there says a lot...

I even noticed it in my last year or so in public ed. that some of the kids, even the younger ones, are realizing and acting on the 'lack of control'... at least here in So Cal.
 
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