2016 Presidential Horse Race

[BleedBlueGold]

How many rallies has Trump held, and can you list the names of everyone who "gets their ass kicked as the crowd cheers" at each one? Or are you maybe guilty of exactly the same thing as Trump; using hyperbole to get people riled about something? So far, I have seen only one guy get punched during a rally. That was in NC. There were punches thrown (and it looked a little like bedlam for a moment) in Chicago, but Trump wasn't even there, so you can hardly say that he was inciting it. And there was ample eyewitness accounts that pegged the protestors as the instigators of the violence there.

Are you serious with this? That's the "only one" you've seen?

 

[connor_in]

 

[woolybug25]

Again, please stop with the strawman tactics and intentional twisting of my positions or what I've said. I'm much better at explaining my views than you are. If you disagree with me, that's fine. Refute something I've actually said with facts and an honest argument. Don't intentionally misstate my point or anything I've said in order to make it easier to argue against.

I've never said they have no right to protest, speak their mind, or disagree with anything Trump or anyone else says. They absolutely have the right to do so. What they don't have the right to do is to disrupt someone else's speech or protest in a way that denies someone else their own right to hear or express views that differ from their own.

You can say that I am misinterpreted what you said, but I have quoted it TWICE. You have given no actual reason why my comment was twisting your words, just accusing me of twisting your words. That's completely false.

You think Trump's views are racist because they differ from your own. While I dislike the guy, don't want him as president, and disagree with a lot of what he says & does, I don't believe his policies are racist at all. Just because his or anyone else's views about something don't toe the Democrat party line doesn't make them racist or hateful any more than disagreeing with some of these self-absorbed, thin-skinned, #safespace college kids means you're attacking them, assaulting them, or committing an act of violence against them out of hatred. They absolutely cannot conceive of the idea that they might be wrong or that other views than their own have merit, thus anyone who questions them or disagrees with them must be a bad, bad, stupid, evil person. When you assume that anyone whose views differ from you own must be bad and motivated by whatever motive you want to assign to them regardless of their actual motive, you run the very high risk of becoming close-minded to other ideas, other ways of viewing things, other solutions that might in fact work better, other points of view, and just flat out being wrong sometimes.

Give me a break. I disagree with his views because they are clearly racist, anticultural and sexist. I'm not going to argue with you that calling a large portion of a race "rapists", wanting to ban an entire religion from entering our country and insulting a women with menstruation jokes aren't those things specifically. If you don't believe that, then you are a fool.

 

[BleedBlueGold]

You mean, like Trump supporters are a bunch of idiot bigots? Or is that not hateful because it is true?

Why are you trying to twist what I'm saying? I'm talking about Trump.

 

[woolybug25]

On the Republican side, Trump scores a net negative of -33, with a favorable rating of 24% compared to 57% of voters who view him unfavorably. On the Democratic side, Clinton fares only slightly better with a net negative of -21, registering a 31% favorable rating and a 52% unfavorable rating, according to the poll.

Poll: Trump, Clinton score historic unfavorable ratings - CNNPolitics.com

I suppose we get the candidates we deserve...

 

[GoIrish41]

Just one example - It's OK to hate people legally mining coal but it is not OK to condemn people illegally in our country. That is just hateful.

Is there some campaign of hate against coal miners that I didn't hear about? I believe Hillary's proposal is to convert the regions that rely on coal mining to the hubs of manufacturing and innovation for the clean energy industry. Doesn't sound like hate to me. What am I missing?

So, I have to ask ... Is supporting policies that seek to curtail pollution of our air with the dirtiest fuel on the planet for the benefit of all of mankind a bad thing? Is supporting policies that consign human beings to lives of abject poverty or religious/political persecution and violence somehow mean spirited? You sound as though you believe there is some ill intent by the Democrats in their policy positions. I don't think there is inconsistency in those two positions at all. Both seek to help people. Allowing energy companies to continue to profit from destroying the environment and blocking people from making a living (and helping our own economy in the process) or escaping poverty and persecution also seem consistent. Republicans aren't the good guys with either of these positions.

 

[kmoose]

Are you serious with this? That's the "only one" you've seen?

I'm very serious that that is the only one that I have seen punched during a rally, yes.

 

[woolybug25]

I'm very serious that that is the only one that I have seen punched during a rally, yes.

Then you aren't paying attention, dude.

It's happening at every single event. You cannot actually be paying attention to his campaign and not know this, right?

 

[GoIrish41]

How many rallies has Trump held, and can you list the names of everyone who "gets their ass kicked as the crowd cheers" at each one? Or are you maybe guilty of exactly the same thing as Trump; using hyperbole to get people riled about something? So far, I have seen only one guy get punched during a rally. That was in NC. There were punches thrown (and it looked a little like bedlam for a moment) in Chicago, but Trump wasn't even there, so you can hardly say that he was inciting it. And there was ample eyewitness accounts that pegged the protestors as the instigators of the violence there.

Perhaps you need to watch more news. Every week new videos come out of girls getting shoved by old Kiwanis club members, black guys getting sucker punched by rednecks, protesters getting kicked after being knocked to the ground, etc., etc., etc. And those are only the incidents being caught on camera. Do a google search, moose. If that one incident is all you have seen, you have not been paying attention.

 

[wizards8507]

Is there some campaign of hate against coal miners that I didn't hear about? I believe Hillary's proposal is to convert the regions that rely on coal mining to the hubs of manufacturing and innovation for the clean energy industry. Doesn't sound like hate to me. What am I missing?

"Hubs of innovation for the clean energy industry"!? Give me a damn break. We have trouble recruiting qualified engineers to Bristol, Connecticut. You think you're going to get MIT and Caltech talent to move to Harlan, Kentucky? Wrong. Any innovation that's going to happen is going to happen in our existing innovation hubs. It's going to be Seattle, Boston, California, Austin, Ann Arbor, and Raleigh-Durham-Chapel Hill. She's lying to people who don't know any better. That's hateful.

So, I have to ask ... Is supporting policies that seek to curtail pollution of our air with the dirtiest fuel on the planet for the benefit of all of mankind a bad thing?

As renewable energy becomes economically viable, fossil fuels with phase themselves out. It's not something that needs to be driven from Washington.

Is supporting policies that consign human beings to lives of abject poverty or religious/political persecution and violence somehow mean spirited? You sound as though you believe there is some ill intent by the Democrats in their policy positions. I don't think there is inconsistency in those two positions at all. Both seek to help people. Allowing energy companies to continue to profit from destroying the environment and blocking people from making a living (and helping our own economy in the process) or escaping poverty and persecution also seem consistent. Republicans aren't the good guys with either of these positions.

I'm sorry, who is being blocked from making a living?

 

[irishff1014]

Then you aren't paying attention, dude.

It's happening at every single event. You cannot actually be paying attention to his campaign and not know this, right?

But it's ok for Bernie/Hillary's ass hats to block roadways is ok?

 

[woolybug25]

But it's ok for Bernie/Hillary's ass hats to block roadways is ok?

You're right, protesters should be beaten...

If they are illegally blocking a street, then the police have the right to arrest them. That act alone does not give Trump supporters the right to assault people. Furthermore, none of the pictures I posted were attacks on people blocking a road. So I don't get how your point is relevant.

 

[kmoose]

Then you aren't paying attention, dude.

It's happening at every single event. You cannot actually be paying attention to his campaign and not know this, right?

I'm not paying close attention to his campaign, so it is quite possible. Still photos don't tell the whole story. How many of these shots are from inside the facility in Chicago, where there wasn't a rally? How many are actual punches thrown, and not just wrestling with each other? How many incidents took place to cheering crowds? Seriously... I am not defending Trump, here. I simply am not just buying into the hype that people are getting their asses kicked all over his rallies. And it certainly hasn't been "every single event".

Trump is you, and you are Trump. The reason that he is polling so well is that his hyperbole resonates with a lot of people; because that is the way that they see life as well. Trump says we are going to win so much that we'll get tired of winning........ you say that someone is getting punched at every single event of his. Both statements are false, but not necessarily lies. They are just hyperbole, most likely born of frustration with the status quo, or maybe just simply calculated to demonize others.

 

[woolybug25]

I'm not paying close attention to his campaign, so it is quite possible. Still photos don't tell the whole story. How many of these shots are from inside the facility in Chicago, where there wasn't a rally? How many are actual punches thrown, and not just wrestling with each other? How many incidents took place to cheering crowds? Seriously... I am not defending Trump, here. I simply am not just buying into the hype that people are getting their asses kicked all over his rallies. And it certainly hasn't been "every single event".

Trump is you, and you are Trump. The reason that he is polling so well is that his hyperbole resonates with a lot of people; because that is the way that they see life as well. Trump says we are going to win so much that we'll get tired of winning........ you say that someone is getting punched at every single event of his. Both statements are false, but not necessarily lies. They are just hyperbole, most likely born of frustration with the status quo, or maybe just simply calculated to demonize others.

It really, really has been at almost every event since Chicago. I'm dead serious. Google is your friend, brother.

 

[ozzman]

This guy is just insane. He's right, he does have a lot of words. A lot of words with no substance.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/blog...ing-with-the-washington-post-editorial-board/

 

[GoIrish41]

I'm not paying close attention to his campaign, so it is quite possible. Still photos don't tell the whole story. How many of these shots are from inside the facility in Chicago, where there wasn't a rally? How many are actual punches thrown, and not just wrestling with each other? How many incidents took place to cheering crowds? Seriously... I am not defending Trump, here. I simply am not just buying into the hype that people are getting their asses kicked all over his rallies. And it certainly hasn't been "every single event".

Trump is you, and you are Trump. The reason that he is polling so well is that his hyperbole resonates with a lot of people; because that is the way that they see life as well. Trump says we are going to win so much that we'll get tired of winning........ you say that someone is getting punched at every single event of his. Both statements are false, but not necessarily lies. They are just hyperbole, most likely born of frustration with the status quo, or maybe just simply calculated to demonize others.

Trump campaign dogged by violent incidents at rallies | US news | The Guardian

What the hell is going on with violence at Trump rallies, explained - Vox

Donald Trump Encourages Violence At His Rallies. His Fans Are Listening.

TIMELINE: Trump's Racial Demagoguery Is Having Dangerous, Real-Life Consequences - America's Voice

Trump Comes Under Fire for Violence at His Rallies - US News

Media Highlight Trump's Role In Inspiring Violence At His Events | Research | Media Matters for America

CBS/NYT poll: Who's to blame for violence at Donald Trump rallies? - CBS News

There are dozens and dozens more articles if these don't tell the story.

 

[irishff1014]

You're right, protesters should be beaten...

Blocking traffic is illegal. They can protest 24 hours long I don't care stay out of the way of people that are trying to do their jobs or take their kid to the doctor or what ever the case maybe.

People are stupid for putting themselves in these situations. I don't like Hillary she is useless IMO but I am also smart enough to not go to her event and act like a fool when there will 20,000 of her supporters there. It's called commen sense. And I see it everyday I go to work just how lacked the younger generation is when comes to that.

Politics are getting out of hand. Instead of using money and time telling what each candidate can do to help the country instead of bashing each other or saying negative things. (Yes I know I am not normally the one that's stays positive) like the republicans bashing Ben Carson the dude is one of the best surgeons in America especially on the east coast. Hell again I don't like her but Hillary could be the best mother in the world to her daughter.

 

[gkIrish]

Not so bold prediction: Many Trump "haters" will be defending him when it comes to the general election under the guise of "lesser of two evils." I already see it happening here and in my personal life.

I hate Hillary more than almost anyone but I'm not going to support Trump just to see her beat.

"If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice"

<iframe width="525" height="325" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/5Cgm9ZoXdrA?feature=player_embedded" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

 

[woolybug25]

Blocking traffic is illegal. They can protest 24 hours long I don't care stay out of the way of people that are trying to do their jobs or take their kid to the doctor or what ever the case maybe.

Then arrest them. I still don't get why you believe that gives people a free ticket to assault them. Assault is a crime too, a larger crime than blocking a road.

People are stupid for putting themselves in these situations. I don't like Hillary she is useless IMO but I am also smart enough to not go to her event and act like a fool when there will 20,000 of her supporters there. It's called commen sense. And I see it everyday I go to work just how lacked the younger generation is when comes to that.

So is it ok for a scantily dressed girl to be raped if she doesn't put herself in a safer scenario? Your point of them "putting themselves in the position" makes zero logical sense.

In one breath, you say it's "blocking freedom of speech" if protesters show up, but here you are saying that if these people choose to use their freedom of speech, that it's okay to physically assault them? I'm still not getting your analogy.

Politics are getting out of hand. Instead of using money and time telling what each candidate can do to help the country instead of bashing each other or saying negative things. (Yes I know I am not normally the one that's stays positive) like the republicans bashing Ben Carson the dude is one of the best surgeons in America especially on the east coast. Hell again I don't like her but Hillary could be the best mother in the world to her daughter.

No disagreement here.

 

[kmoose]

Trump campaign dogged by violent incidents at rallies | US news | The Guardian

What the hell is going on with violence at Trump rallies, explained - Vox

Donald Trump Encourages Violence At His Rallies. His Fans Are Listening.

TIMELINE: Trump's Racial Demagoguery Is Having Dangerous, Real-Life Consequences - America's Voice

Trump Comes Under Fire for Violence at His Rallies - US News

Media Highlight Trump's Role In Inspiring Violence At His Events | Research | Media Matters for America

CBS/NYT poll: Who's to blame for violence at Donald Trump rallies? - CBS News

There are dozens and dozens more articles if these don't tell the story.

They don't tell the story, they tell the narrative. The narrative is not the same as the story. For instance, the media continues to say that Trump is calling for riots if he doesn't get the nomination. That's simply not true, and it's so not true that I can't believe that people are falling for it. I'm trying to do my part to vote smartly........... I'm trying to sift through the bullshit and focus on what is real. Bernie Sanders is not really a Communist, Ben Carson is not really insane, Clinton didn't really kill Vince Foster, and Trump didn't really call for riots if he doesn't get the nomination.

 

[GoIrish41]

Blocking traffic is illegal. They can protest 24 hours long I don't care stay out of the way of people that are trying to do their jobs or take their kid to the doctor or what ever the case maybe.

Okay, so we have police and courts to deal with people who break the law. But you seem to be saying that people who do this deserve to get their asses kicked. It's OK to get annoyed by their protests (indeed, the whole point is drawing people's attention to an issue by creating a situation that people might otherwise not pay much attention) but it is also not OK to take violent action against them. That is also illegal. You seem to be defending one illegal act because another has occurred. Please let me know if I'm misrepresenting your point of view.

Also, what we are talking about is happening inside the rallies -- not at intersections where people are stuck in traffic because of protester created traffic jams. Violence is occurring against people who are inside the events, not outside blocking traffic.

 

[woolybug25]

They don't tell the story, they tell the narrative. The narrative is not the same as the story. For instance, the media continues to say that Trump is calling for riots if he doesn't get the nomination. That's simply not true, and it's so not true that I can't believe that people are falling for it. I'm trying to do my part to vote smartly........... I'm trying to sift through the bullshit and focus on what is real. Bernie Sanders is not really a Communist, Ben Carson is not really insane, Clinton didn't really kill Vince Foster, and Trump didn't really call for riots if he doesn't get the nomination.

You're joking, right? He clearly, in his Trump branded way, brought up the topic of rioting if he doesn't get the nominee. Not once has he said that they shouldn't. You probably believe him when he says he was talking about "blood coming out of her eyes" too right?

Those links do tell the whole story, my man. Turn on your flippin' tv for once. Every day there is a new rumble at a Trump rally. To deny that still is insane.

 

[phgreek]

This guy is just insane. He's right, he does have a lot of words. A lot of words with no substance.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/blog...ing-with-the-washington-post-editorial-board/

always knew he was a Democrat....

He is so completely undisciplined in anything he says, he comes off reading like a crazy person. But I think that is why people like to hear him...

He just fires it out there w/o any concern for consistency, the possible, the reasonable.

Lots of talk around here about Trump, and inciting things. He most certainly is, and he indeed holds some responsibility for violence against protesters. But so do local police and municipalities who do not enforce their own laws regarding assembly. Ask yourselves a very simple series of questions...if Trump asked for his supporters to allow law enforcement to do their job...would law enforcement indeed do their jobs? Are law enforcement assigned to rallys in numbers to ensure the Trump people their rights? Are law enforcement being told to stop interference and protest occurring outside proscribed areas? If I need to make allowances for poor conduct, I'll always side with those defending their rights and the law...even if Trump is Archie Bunker, I side with people getting their ass handed to them until they protest according to rule of law in these places.

 

[GoIrish41]

They don't tell the story, they tell the narrative. The narrative is not the same as the story. For instance, the media continues to say that Trump is calling for riots if he doesn't get the nomination. That's simply not true, and it's so not true that I can't believe that people are falling for it. I'm trying to do my part to vote smartly........... I'm trying to sift through the bullshit and focus on what is real. Bernie Sanders is not really a Communist, Ben Carson is not really insane, Clinton didn't really kill Vince Foster, and Trump didn't really call for riots if he doesn't get the nomination.

Forget the narrative ... watch the videos. There are dozens of them available on line. There are probably dozens more incidents that were not captured on video. You are arguing about something that you admittedly have not paid that close of attention to. Catch up to the rest of us and then we can talk.

Glad you are carefully weighing all the BS that is flowing about this election. But if you don't think that Trump "suggesting" there would be riots if he didn't win the nomination wasn't him planting the idea that his supporters should riot, then I don't know what to tell you. If Hillary said something like that, the whole of the republican party (and most of the Democrats, too) would lose its mind about how irresponsible and unhinged she was being.

 

[woolybug25]

always knew he was a Democrat....

He is so completely undisciplined in anything he says, he comes off reading like a crazy person. But I think that is why people like to hear him...

He just fires it out there w/o any concern for consistency, the possible, the reasonable.

Lots of talk around here about Trump, and inciting things. He most certainly is, and he indeed holds some responsibility for violence against protesters. But so do local police and municipalities who do not enforce their own laws regarding assembly. Ask yourselves a very simple series of questions...if Trump asked for his supporters to allow law enforcement to do their job...would law enforcement indeed do their jobs? Are law enforcement assigned to rallys in numbers to ensure the Trump people their rights? Are law enforcement being told to stop interference and protest occurring outside proscribed areas? If I need to make allowances for poor conduct, I'll always side with those defending their rights and the law...even if Trump is Archie Bunker, I side with people getting their ass handed to them until they protest according to rule of law in these places.

A couple points on this. I agree, the protesters blocking streets or doing anything illegal should totally be arrested.

But that is OUTSIDE of the doors of the rally.

Once inside, Trump has a security force that is being used. So any of that negative outlook on the police force, can be attributed to Trump once they enter the building.

 

[kmoose]

You're joking, right? He clearly, in his Trump branded way, brought up the topic of rioting if he doesn't get the nominee. Not once has he said that they shouldn't. You probably believe him when he says he was talking about "blood coming out of her eyes" too right?

Those links do tell the whole story, my man. Turn on your flippin' tv for once. Every day there is a new rumble at a Trump rally. To deny that still is insane.

No, I'm not joking. Trump mentioned riots in off-handed way, only in relation to him being way out in front of everyone else, and then the RNC using some chicanery to nominate someone else. In other words.......... if he gets screwed out of the nomination by political sleight of hand. There is a HUGE difference between that, and "Trump calls for riots if he is not nominated".

 

[kmoose]

A couple points on this. I agree, the protesters blocking streets or doing anything illegal should totally be arrested.

But that is OUTSIDE of the doors of the rally.

Once inside, Trump has a security force that is being used. So any of that negative outlook on the police force, can be attributed to Trump once they enter the building.

The guys inside the event in North Carolina were Law Enforcement......... in uniform, so I would assume that they were in an official capacity, not hired to be private security for Trump.

 

[wizards8507]

No, I'm not joking. Trump mentioned riots in off-handed way, only in relation to him being way out in front of everyone else, and then the RNC using some chicanery to nominate someone else. In other words.......... if he gets screwed out of the nomination by political sleight of hand. There is a HUGE difference between that, and "Trump calls for riots if he is not nominated".

There's no chicanery or sleight of hand involved in "if Trump doesn't get the majority of the delegates, he's not the nominee." That's wholly legitimate.

 

[phgreek]

A couple points on this. I agree, the protesters blocking streets or doing anything illegal should totally be arrested.

But that is OUTSIDE of the doors of the rally.

Once inside, Trump has a security force that is being used. So any of that negative outlook on the police force, can be attributed to Trump once they enter the building.

agreed on that point...mostly. I do think if the place is a public place Trump's folks are hamstrung some, and the police still have the responsibility. In a private Venue, yea Trump Security forces are more on the hook.

 

[kmoose]

There's no chicanery or sleight of hand involved in "if Trump doesn't get the majority of the delegates, he's not the nominee." That's wholly legitimate.

Thank you, Captain Obvious.