'14 IL LB Nile Sykes (Indiana Transfer)

pkt77242

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IrishFaninTX said:
I completely agree with every single thing you have pointed out. I love ND football but I don't believe the players for any sport should get better treatment or exceptions over the regular student body. Why should someone who busted his butt in the classroom have different requirements (and have to probably pay some or all of his tuition) than someone who just happens to be a superb athlete, most of it God-given talent, and oh btw gets to go to school for free, too? Everyone wants to blame the schools for not doing this or that but what about the parents? If a parent stays on top of their kids studies then there should never be any surprises. We have a rule in our house that if our daughter doesn't make A/B honor roll every 6 weeks then she goes on probation and if it happens a 2nd time she doesn't play soccer the next year. So far she has never gotten a C. She has her priorities and wants to play college soccer but knows no grades, no play. I will be doing my due diligence, as well, to make sure she has every credit she needs for any school she desires, I will know the required GPA for each school, and the minimum score she will need on her SAT or ACT. Some parents don't care but then they better not get upset at schools when their kid doesn't have what he needs to go to college or go to a good college.
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You do realize that ND has very different admission standards for athletes vs the general student body, right?
 
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IrishFaninTX said:
I completely agree with every single thing you have pointed out. I love ND football but I don't believe the players for any sport should get better treatment or exceptions over the regular student body. Why should someone who busted his butt in the classroom have different requirements (and have to probably pay some or all of his tuition) than someone who just happens to be a superb athlete, most of it God-given talent, and oh btw gets to go to school for free, too? Everyone wants to blame the schools for not doing this or that but what about the parents? If a parent stays on top of their kids studies then there should never be any surprises. We have a rule in our house that if our daughter doesn't make A/B honor roll every 6 weeks then she goes on probation and if it happens a 2nd time she doesn't play soccer the next year. So far she has never gotten a C. She has her priorities and wants to play college soccer but knows no grades, no play. I will be doing my due diligence, as well, to make sure she has every credit she needs for any school she desires, I will know the required GPA for each school, and the minimum score she will need on her SAT or ACT. Some parents don't care but then they better not get upset at schools when their kid doesn't have what he needs to go to college or go to a good college.
Click to expand...

Lolololol
 
GoldenToTheGrave

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IrishFaninTX said:
I completely agree with every single thing you have pointed out. I love ND football but I don't believe the players for any sport should get better treatment or exceptions over the regular student body. Why should someone who busted his butt in the classroom have different requirements (and have to probably pay some or all of his tuition) than someone who just happens to be a superb athlete, most of it God-given talent, and oh btw gets to go to school for free, too? Everyone wants to blame the schools for not doing this or that but what about the parents? If a parent stays on top of their kids studies then there should never be any surprises. We have a rule in our house that if our daughter doesn't make A/B honor roll every 6 weeks then she goes on probation and if it happens a 2nd time she doesn't play soccer the next year. So far she has never gotten a C. She has her priorities and wants to play college soccer but knows no grades, no play. I will be doing my due diligence, as well, to make sure she has every credit she needs for any school she desires, I will know the required GPA for each school, and the minimum score she will need on her SAT or ACT. Some parents don't care but then they better not get upset at schools when their kid doesn't have what he needs to go to college or go to a good college.
Click to expand...

Paragraphs are your friends.
 
jimmymac

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IrishFaninTX said:
I completely agree with every single thing you have pointed out. I love ND football but I don't believe the players for any sport should get better treatment or exceptions over the regular student body. Why should someone who busted his butt in the classroom have different requirements (and have to probably pay some or all of his tuition) than someone who just happens to be a superb athlete, most of it God-given talent, and oh btw gets to go to school for free, too? Everyone wants to blame the schools for not doing this or that but what about the parents? If a parent stays on top of their kids studies then there should never be any surprises. We have a rule in our house that if our daughter doesn't make A/B honor roll every 6 weeks then she goes on probation and if it happens a 2nd time she doesn't play soccer the next year. So far she has never gotten a C. She has her priorities and wants to play college soccer but knows no grades, no play. I will be doing my due diligence, as well, to make sure she has every credit she needs for any school she desires, I will know the required GPA for each school, and the minimum score she will need on her SAT or ACT. Some parents don't care but then they better not get upset at schools when their kid doesn't have what he needs to go to college or go to a good college.
Click to expand...

Who do you want playing football for ND? Me? Lol
 
Wild Bill

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IrishFaninTX said:
I love ND football but I don't believe the players for any sport should get better treatment or exceptions over the regular student body. Why should someone who busted his butt in the classroom have different requirements (and have to probably pay some or all of his tuition) than someone who just happens to be a superb athlete, most of it God-given talent, and oh btw gets to go to school for free, too?
Click to expand...

A great student and a superb athlete are both valuable to Notre Dame, and every other University in the country. I'm not saying admit any asshole with speed. I'm just saying athletic excellence is valuable to a University and it's alumni. I think it's wise to cut them some slack.

Spare me the god given nonsense. If you think a guy that looks like Jaylon doesn't work his ass off you aren't being honest with yourself. Every rep he pumps out in the weight room, every sprint he runs, every bite of food he takes benefits the University to a certain extent. We should praise these kids for working their asses off, not question them.

Players should get better treatment b/c of the sacrifice they make; academic assistance, quality food and access to medical treatment should be available to them. While the rest of the student body enjoys college life, a football player is launching his body at a 300lb man in front of 100k people (or preparing his body to do it, if that's even possible).
 
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connect the dots

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IrishFaninTX said:
I completely agree with every single thing you have pointed out. I love ND football but I don't believe the players for any sport should get better treatment or exceptions over the regular student body. Why should someone who busted his butt in the classroom have different requirements (and have to probably pay some or all of his tuition) than someone who just happens to be a superb athlete, most of it God-given talent, and oh btw gets to go to school for free, too? Everyone wants to blame the schools for not doing this or that but what about the parents? If a parent stays on top of their kids studies then there should never be any surprises. We have a rule in our house that if our daughter doesn't make A/B honor roll every 6 weeks then she goes on probation and if it happens a 2nd time she doesn't play soccer the next year. So far she has never gotten a C. She has her priorities and wants to play college soccer but knows no grades, no play. I will be doing my due diligence, as well, to make sure she has every credit she needs for any school she desires, I will know the required GPA for each school, and the minimum score she will need on her SAT or ACT. Some parents don't care but then they better not get upset at schools when their kid doesn't have what he needs to go to college or go to a good college.
Click to expand...

Boy, are you in for a rude awakening! Not only will Notre Dame continue to offer better treatment for their football players, but also, a monthly stipend for their services as well. Financial compensation is coming to major college football, and the private schools such as Northwestern, Stanford, Vanderbilt, and Notre Dame are going to lead the way with stipends for services, and steer this issue away from ever getting into our court system. The major colleges will avoid litigation on this issue, and not allow the court system to mess with their Pot of Gold!
 
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Let me clarify. I don't think they should change the requirements unless they change it for all schools. ND would never be able to compete if they did so I don't think they should go any lower than they are. So if people took issue with that part of the post then understand that isn't what I was suggesting.

But I stand by my belief that parents should be more involved and if there is blame to cast around then it should be on them and the students, not the schools. I don't have any problem with ND kicking a player out who did not do enough to meet the minimum requirement, already so much lower than the rest of the student body (non-athletes). If a kid wants to attend a place like ND or Stanford then both he and his parents should do they research up front and make sure he has taken all required classes and maintained the appropriate GPA/score on tests. I don't think that is unreasonable. You don't just decide one day to go to a school like ND. It takes preparation and planning and I have no doubt the admissions department informed him of what was needed and at that point it's on the student and the parents.
 
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IrishFaninTX

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Irish19 said:
A great student and a superb athlete are both valuable to Notre Dame, and every other University in the country. I'm not saying admit any asshole with speed. I'm just saying athletic excellence is valuable to a University and it's alumni. I think it's wise to cut them some slack.

Spare me the god given nonsense. If you think a guy that looks like Jaylon doesn't work his ass off you aren't being honest with yourself. Every rep he pumps out in the weight room, every sprint he runs, every bite of food he takes benefits the University to a certain extent. We should praise these kids for working their asses off, not question them.

Players should get better treatment b/c of the sacrifice they make; academic assistance, quality food and access to medical treatment should be available to them. While the rest of the student body enjoys college life, a football player is launching his body at a 300lb man in front of 100k people (or preparing his body to do it, if that's even possible).
Click to expand...

Do what? What athletes have you been hanging out with that gave you the opinion they do not get to enjoy college life? Every one I knew in school went to a different party every night, sometimes more than 1 a night and banged any girl he wanted, again sometimes more than 1 a night. And do you know many athletes that got a college scholarship without natural talent? I never said they don't work hard but that they wouldn't be going to college at all if they didn't have something they were born with. The majority anyway. I don't think a player should be rewarded more because he is a football player but I do agree that without lowering standards then ND would never be able to compete with the rest of the country for athletes. I am glad they are a little stricter but I know they cannot raise the bar any higher if they want to actually compete for a national title.
 
Wild Bill

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IrishFaninTX said:
Do what? What athletes have you been hanging out with that gave you the opinion they do not get to enjoy college life? Every one I knew in school went to a different party every night, sometimes more than 1 a night and banged any girl he wanted, again sometimes more than 1 a night. And do you know many athletes that got a college scholarship without natural talent?
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I never said they didn't have natural talent. Of course they do. I grew up with a handful of guys who had natural talent and it wasn't enough to earn a scholarship. Those of us who worked hard earned scholarships. Do you know many intelligent people that were born dumb. Probably not. Like most successful athletes, it's probably a combination of natural ability and hard work. You, on the other hand, seem to suggest that one works hard and the other relies solely on natural ability:

IrishFaninTX said:
Why should someone who busted his butt in the classroom have different requirements (and have to probably pay some or all of his tuition) than someone who just happens to be a superb athlete, most of it God-given talent,
Click to expand...

IrishFaninTX said:
I never said they don't work hard but that they wouldn't be going to college at all if they didn't have something they were born with. The majority anyway.
Click to expand...

You're making an assumption.

IrishFaninTX said:
I don't think a player should be rewarded more because he is a football player but I do agree that without lowering standards then ND would never be able to compete with the rest of the country for athletes. I am glad they are a little stricter but I know they cannot raise the bar any higher if they want to actually compete for a national title.
Click to expand...

The University has an interest in rewarding football players. They're not rewarding them out of pity.
 
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BobbyMac

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Hard to believe nothing is leaking through back channels.
 
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In my opinion, the standard is a simple one. Is the young man or young woman who is below the average SAT/ACT scores and GPA averages but who brings something special and important to the University probable or likely to successfully complete undergraduate studies and graduate from the University of Notre Dame?

Someone special does not always have to be an athlete. What about a young person who has exceptional musical talent and would be a great asset to the band or the Glee Club? Or a great debater? Or a great editor of the student newspaper? Or a great drama major?

The difficulty is in figuring out in each case what the probability and likelihood of success at Notre Dame is for the young person involved. If Admissions has doubts about this, and they are honest and up front with the young person that you must do this or that to be admitted I am comfortable with that.

Sometimes the young person tries but is just not able to do it. No one is to blame in that situation. A Notre Dame degree is valuable and it means something special because just wanting to go to Notre Dame and get the degree is not enough. You must demonstrate to Admissions that you are likely to succeed and that you will probably succeed at Notre Dame.

I prefer to have the Admissions Department after careful consideration decide who gets admitted and not the football coach or the basketball coach or the hockey coach.

"Student-Athlete" not "Athlete-maybe, might be, could possibly be Student."
 
JughedJones

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vmgsf said:
In my opinion, the standard is a simple one. Is the young man or young woman who is below the average SAT/ACT scores and GPA averages but who brings something special and important to the University probable or likely to successfully complete undergraduate studies and graduate from the University of Notre Dame?

Someone special does not always have to be an athlete. What about a young person who has exceptional musical talent and would be a great asset to the band or the Glee Club? Or a great debater? Or a great editor of the student newspaper? Or a great drama major?

The difficulty is in figuring out in each case what the probability and likelihood of success at Notre Dame is for the young person involved. If Admissions has doubts about this, and they are honest and up front with the young person that you must do this or that to be admitted I am comfortable with that.

Sometimes the young person tries but is just not able to do it. No one is to blame in that situation. A Notre Dame degree is valuable and it means something special because just wanting to go to Notre Dame and get the degree is not enough. You must demonstrate to Admissions that you are likely to succeed and that you will probably succeed at Notre Dame.

I prefer to have the Admissions Department after careful consideration decide who gets admitted and not the football coach or the basketball coach or the hockey coach.

"Student-Athlete" not "Athlete-maybe, might be, could possibly be Student."
Click to expand...

Right. On.

Perfectly said. There are artists, gymnasts, musicians, poets, etc. at UND that deserve to have some leeway. Football players are in that group.

It should never be said that we would allow someone in that doesn't have the character or the ability to be a student at Notre Dame. However, every great university looks past 'traditional merits' when a prospect brings something special to the table that could enhance their campus. If SATs and GPAs were all anyone looked at, you would have a really boring student body. (Common Core comes to mind.)

That's the spirit of the whole damn thing. Give the right people the right chance. Do it with heart, not with selfish motives.

::This brought to you by your resident secular liberal humanist:: :)
 
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bigedefense

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vmgsf said:
In my opinion, the standard is a simple one. Is the young man or young woman who is below the average SAT/ACT scores and GPA averages but who brings something special and important to the University probable or likely to successfully complete undergraduate studies and graduate from the University of Notre Dame?

Someone special does not always have to be an athlete. What about a young person who has exceptional musical talent and would be a great asset to the band or the Glee Club? Or a great debater? Or a great editor of the student newspaper? Or a great drama major?

The difficulty is in figuring out in each case what the probability and likelihood of success at Notre Dame is for the young person involved. If Admissions has doubts about this, and they are honest and up front with the young person that you must do this or that to be admitted I am comfortable with that.

Sometimes the young person tries but is just not able to do it. No one is to blame in that situation. A Notre Dame degree is valuable and it means something special because just wanting to go to Notre Dame and get the degree is not enough. You must demonstrate to Admissions that you are likely to succeed and that you will probably succeed at Notre Dame.

I prefer to have the Admissions Department after careful consideration decide who gets admitted and not the football coach or the basketball coach or the hockey coach.

"Student-Athlete" not "Athlete-maybe, might be, could possibly be Student."
Click to expand...

Was it Oklahoma a couple years ago that had a football player that was also a MASTER DEBATER?
 
wizards8507

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vmgsf said:
In my opinion, the standard is a simple one. Is the young man or young woman who is below the average SAT/ACT scores and GPA averages but who brings something special and important to the University probable or likely to successfully complete undergraduate studies and graduate from the University of Notre Dame?

Someone special does not always have to be an athlete. What about a young person who has exceptional musical talent and would be a great asset to the band or the Glee Club? Or a great debater? Or a great editor of the student newspaper? Or a great drama major?

The difficulty is in figuring out in each case what the probability and likelihood of success at Notre Dame is for the young person involved. If Admissions has doubts about this, and they are honest and up front with the young person that you must do this or that to be admitted I am comfortable with that.

Sometimes the young person tries but is just not able to do it. No one is to blame in that situation. A Notre Dame degree is valuable and it means something special because just wanting to go to Notre Dame and get the degree is not enough. You must demonstrate to Admissions that you are likely to succeed and that you will probably succeed at Notre Dame.

I prefer to have the Admissions Department after careful consideration decide who gets admitted and not the football coach or the basketball coach or the hockey coach.

"Student-Athlete" not "Athlete-maybe, might be, could possibly be Student."
Click to expand...

JughedJones said:
Right. On.

Perfectly said. There are artists, gymnasts, musicians, poets, etc. at UND that deserve to have some leeway. Football players are in that group.

It should never be said that we would allow someone in that doesn't have the character or the ability to be a student at Notre Dame. However, every great university looks past 'traditional merits' when a prospect brings something special to the table that could enhance their campus. If SATs and GPAs were all anyone looked at, you would have a really boring student body. (Common Core comes to mind.)

That's the spirit of the whole damn thing. Give the right people the right chance. Do it with heart, not with selfish motives.

::This brought to you by your resident secular liberal humanist:: :)
Click to expand...

These two posts should be stickied and referenced every time conversations turn to ridiculous arguments about admissions standards and "Brian Kelly versus the administration" conspiracy theories. Well said both of you.

(Jughed I thought you secular liberals loved common core.)

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy S III using Tapatalk 4
 
Irish#1

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