We are slow, Longo must go?

Irish8248

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koonja said:
I couldn't care less if it means anything to you, Longo, or anyone else. I'm not convinced that he's a world beater and gives us a huge advantage. And I have backed off of my OP over the past year + of calling for his head. If you need it verbatim, search the site. It's there.
Click to expand...

Lol I thought the dinner for schmucks gif would give the impression of a joke ... I don't care if you say it or don't. Hakuhnamata - we love Longo
 
gkIrish

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I have to ask...is there something in our S&C regimen that makes us more injury prone? People can blame the field or whatever they want but the reality is that we have been riddled with major injuries the last 2 seasons and the teams we play against, who play on the same surface, have been relatively injury-free. What's the deal?
 
PANDFAN

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don't buy anything other than bad luck...they have all happened differently...the one point someone on 247 said was that they shouldn't be wearing the cleats they do on that surface...the guy is a lacrosse guy who made mention of how they should be wearing what the lacrosse guys do on that surface as we are using a reg cleat that goes further down into the turf.


here is the post

I live in a town on Long Island where the primary sport is lacrosse. The town boasts more lax college All Americans than any town in the US. My kids played and loved it. One plays in college. The high school has a couple of great turf fields. They look great, drain quickly after a rain and are generally terrific.

Lacrosse is played like basketball in the sense that there is a lot of short bursts of running and sudden cutting- like a wide receiver, running back, cornerback or safety.
There have been many knee injuries on turf fields. The problem frequently is that the size of the individual cleat is sometimes larger than the mesh that binds the field turf. So in that instant when a player cuts but the foot doesn't pivot in synch with the rest of the leg, there can be a knee injury.

What to do? Wear turf shoes instead of cleats. Turf shoes do not have long cleats that sink into the recesses of the turf. Lacrosse players sometimes have a couple of types of shoes for games- they frequently wear turf shoes on turf and cleats on grass fields.
This is not a question of UnderArmour vs. Nike or Adidias. It is the generic cleat getting stuck.
Also, maybe more importantly, exercise your I- band with one of those styrofoam pool noodles. It feels like you are being stabbed with a knife- but could save your knees. You lay in a side plank position with the noodle at your waist and roll down to your knee with your weight on it. Did I say that it hurts like a mofo?

Finally,have Coach Kelly speak with Coach Corrigan about this while we still have players who can walk. Lax guys have known about this for years.
 
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IrishLax

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gkIrish said:
I have to ask...is there something in our S&C regimen that makes us more injury prone? People can blame the field or whatever they want but the reality is that we have been riddled with major injuries the last 2 seasons and the teams we play against, who play on the same surface, have been relatively injury-free. What's the deal?
Click to expand...

OK sooo... I'm not an expert on this kind of stuff, but what I've always been told is that S&C has no impact on 1) ligament injuries 2) severe contact injuries (i.e. broken bones). But it does have an impact on muscular injuries.

When I look at the injuries this year...
1) Crawford. Non-contact ligament injury.
2) Jones. Contact ligament injury.
3) Folston. Non-contact ligament injury.
4) Zaire. Contact bone/ligament injury.
5) Smythe. Contact ligament injury.
6) Tranquill. Non-contact ligament injury.

It appears the Tranquill brothers maybe just have bad knees. Three different knees in three years, none of them "contact trauma". Smythe has been hurt since he stepped on campus. I can't really speak intelligently on Folston or Crawford. Jones is classic lineman injury AND he had a knee brace on. I can't think of any S&C program that would've saved Zaire's ankle.

In short, I'd love to be able to point the finger at something. If people were pulling hamstrings or tearing biceps in the weight room I'd look at our S&C. But I haven't seen a single incident that I wouldn't consider an unpreventable accident.
 
woolybug25

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PANDFAN said:
don't buy anything other than bad luck...they have all happened differently...the one point someone on 247 said was that they shouldn't be wearing the cleats they do on that surface...the guy is a lacrosse guy who made mention of how they should be wearing what the lacrosse guys do on that surface as we are using a reg cleat that goes further down into the turf.


here is the post

I live in a town on Long Island where the primary sport is lacrosse. The town boasts more lax college All Americans than any town in the US. My kids played and loved it. One plays in college. The high school has a couple of great turf fields. They look great, drain quickly after a rain and are generally terrific.

Lacrosse is played like basketball in the sense that there is a lot of short bursts of running and sudden cutting- like a wide receiver, running back, cornerback or safety.
There have been many knee injuries on turf fields. The problem frequently is that the size of the individual cleat is sometimes larger than the mesh that binds the field turf. So in that instant when a player cuts but the foot doesn't pivot in synch with the rest of the leg, there can be a knee injury.

What to do? Wear turf shoes instead of cleats. Turf shoes do not have long cleats that sink into the recesses of the turf. Lacrosse players sometimes have a couple of types of shoes for games- they frequently wear turf shoes on turf and cleats on grass fields.
This is not a question of UnderArmour vs. Nike or Adidias. It is the generic cleat getting stuck.
Also, maybe more importantly, exercise your I- band with one of those styrofoam pool noodles. It feels like you are being stabbed with a knife- but could save your knees. You lay in a side plank position with the noodle at your waist and roll down to your knee with your weight on it. Did I say that it hurts like a mofo?

Finally,have Coach Kelly speak with Coach Corrigan about this while we still have players who can walk. Lax guys have known about this for years.
Click to expand...

That would make sense if all of the injuries happened in Notre Dame Stadium.

Jones - Practice Field Natural Grass
Crawford - Practice Field Natural Grass
Ziare - UVA Natural Grass
Smythe - UVA Natural Grass

So 4 out of the 6 weren't on the surface in question.
 
gkIrish

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IrishLax said:
OK sooo... I'm not an expert on this kind of stuff, but what I've always been told is that S&C has no impact on 1) ligament injuries 2) severe contact injuries (i.e. broken bones). But it does have an impact on muscular injuries.

When I look at the injuries this year...
1) Crawford. Non-contact ligament injury.
2) Jones. Contact ligament injury.
3) Folston. Non-contact ligament injury.
4) Zaire. Contact bone/ligament injury.
5) Smythe. Contact ligament injury.
6) Tranquill. Non-contact ligament injury.

It appears the Tranquill brothers maybe just have bad knees. Three different knees in three years, none of them "contact trauma". Smythe has been hurt since he stepped on campus. I can't really speak intelligently on Folston or Crawford. Jones is classic lineman injury AND he had a knee brace on. I can't think of any S&C program that would've saved Zaire's ankle.

In short, I'd love to be able to point the finger at something. If people were pulling hamstrings or tearing biceps in the weight room I'd look at our S&C. But I haven't seen a single incident that I wouldn't consider an unpreventable accident.
Click to expand...

I'd love to see an article or something like that on the bolded if you know of one. I'm just not a believer in pure bad luck so there's got to be something.
 
IrishLax

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PANDFAN said:
don't buy anything other than bad luck...they have all happened differently...the one point someone on 247 said was that they shouldn't be wearing the cleats they do on that surface...the guy is a lacrosse guy who made mention of how they should be wearing what the lacrosse guys do on that surface as we are using a reg cleat that goes further down into the turf.


here is the post

I live in a town on Long Island where the primary sport is lacrosse. The town boasts more lax college All Americans than any town in the US. My kids played and loved it. One plays in college. The high school has a couple of great turf fields. They look great, drain quickly after a rain and are generally terrific.

Lacrosse is played like basketball in the sense that there is a lot of short bursts of running and sudden cutting- like a wide receiver, running back, cornerback or safety.
There have been many knee injuries on turf fields. The problem frequently is that the size of the individual cleat is sometimes larger than the mesh that binds the field turf. So in that instant when a player cuts but the foot doesn't pivot in synch with the rest of the leg, there can be a knee injury.

What to do? Wear turf shoes instead of cleats. Turf shoes do not have long cleats that sink into the recesses of the turf. Lacrosse players sometimes have a couple of types of shoes for games- they frequently wear turf shoes on turf and cleats on grass fields.
This is not a question of UnderArmour vs. Nike or Adidias. It is the generic cleat getting stuck.
Also, maybe more importantly, exercise your I- band with one of those styrofoam pool noodles. It feels like you are being stabbed with a knife- but could save your knees. You lay in a side plank position with the noodle at your waist and roll down to your knee with your weight on it. Did I say that it hurts like a mofo?

Finally,have Coach Kelly speak with Coach Corrigan about this while we still have players who can walk. Lax guys have known about this for years.
Click to expand...

Alright, this is actually a great post by whoever said that on 247. I haven't looked at what kind of turf we have in ND stadium relative to Arlotta, nor have I looked at what kind of cleats our football team wears.

Growing up everyone wore football cleats for lacrosse (need more ankle support than soccer). You played it on the football field, it worked. For indoor or other "short turf" (think old school Astroturf) people wore turf shoes/sneakers. Works fine and you have enough traction. For traditional field turf once that started getting installed commonly, most people I knew ran with "short spikes" in their removable football cleats with no issue. I know that there was some field turf field where people complained about sticking... but "turf shoes" with the little dimples meant for Astroturf didn't give enough traction... finally, shoes caught up and now the standard are cleats like these:
20817.jpg


20826.jpg


20819.jpg


That's high-, mid-, and low-top.

These are the football cleats:
35526e4f180422bf6377ed0d1c4a54aeb1f99bb3bc86c7f1515614f56a86b073_large


Slightly deeper spikes? I'm not a shoe expert.
 
woolybug25

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woolybug25 said:
That would make sense if all of the injuries happened in Notre Dame Stadium.

Jones - Practice Field Natural Grass
Crawford - Practice Field Natural Grass
Ziare - UVA Natural Grass
Smythe - UVA Natural Grass

So 4 out of the 6 weren't on the surface in question.
Click to expand...

I'll quote myself here. I don't mind...
 
gkIrish

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If the issue is cleat length, a few heads need to roll. It can't be that simple or there are some incredibly stupid people in our equipment room and/or staff making decisions.
 
woolybug25

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gkIrish said:
If the issue is cleat length, a few heads need to roll. It can't be that simple or there are some incredibly stupid people in our equipment room and/or staff making decisions.
Click to expand...

C'mon man... Only 2 of the 6 injuries happened on turf, and both were knee injuries not ankle, so it's clearly not a cleat problem. Right?
 
Southside Sully

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woolybug25 said:
C'mon man... Only 2 of the 6 injuries happened on turf, and both were knee injuries not ankle, so it's clearly not a cleat problem. Right?
Click to expand...

Jones and Crawford were on the practice field which is field turf, not natural grass. You can see Jones injury on TP's protect this house, its not natural turf.
 
Luckylucci

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Admittedly know very little about sports medicine but it does seem crazy that we've had so many ligament injuries in such a short period of time. I'm not diving into any theories here but it does seem odd.
 
gkIrish

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I did some very basic Googling and one thing I saw mentioned a lot was running quickly with sudden stops cause a lot of stress on the ligaments.

Anyone with insight into practices know if we do a lot of that? Suicides would fit the description as would a lot of other conditioning techniques.
 
B

Bogtrotter07

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Looking for a common thread? Players who are heavier, (even though body fat is lower), stronger, and faster, making more athletic moves on slightly less "forgiving" surfaces?

What if guys have just gotten so big, strong and fast that there is only a small envelope for give or strain versus tear?
 
irishfanjho15

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gkIrish said:
I did some very basic Googling and one thing I saw mentioned a lot was running quickly with sudden stops cause a lot of stress on the ligaments.

Anyone with insight into practices know if we do a lot of that? Suicides would fit the description as would a lot of other conditioning techniques.
Click to expand...

This is basically football in a nutshell. The sudden stops are usually collision oriented.

I'm not trying to argue, just that it is the nature of the game.
 
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ulukinatme

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What I got out of that article is that Elton John roams the FSU sidelines, and their players wear bras. Pansies.
 
Irish#1

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PANDFAN said:
Is your weight program personalized to each player, or is it a cookie-cutter approach? Dwight Galt explains the Penn State approach – FootballScoop

HATE PSU but cool article
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I think tailoring it for individuals has been going around for a while. It was born out of the programs where everyone did the same core work, then there were specific programs added to the core program for each position. I would be surprised if Longo doesn't have this in place. Better ask Koon.
 
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Bogtrotter07

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The assistant strength and conditioning coach, hired from Michigan last year, incorporates that approach at ND.

Interesting, with the exception of Elijah Shumate, all the ND participants at the Combine that ran, ran in the top 25 percentile for their position group, with two among the fastest fifteen times recorded.
 
IrishJayhawk

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They were also superior athletes coming in. Top recruiting classes aren't rated that way because they put up big numbers in high school. Competition is too uneven for that. It's all about how athletic they are.

So, yes, Alabama has an incredible s/c program and facilities. But they also have the cream of the athletic crop.
 
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